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Detroit, MI - HDTV - Page 390

post #11671 of 11755
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post



Attic installs are multipath nightmares. Be prepared to try a number of locations and positionings until you find the sweet spot that works. Try something like this: http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=hbu33&d=AntennaCraft-33-Element-UHF-%2F-High-Band-VHF-Outdoor-HDTV-Antenna-(HBU33)

An attic install is not as good as a true outdoor, but, compared to using an indoor antenna in a brick or stucco house, the attic antenna can work like a dream. I was shocked when I tried to used an RCA ATSC11 with an indoor antenna and could not see anything at all (with five full-power stations 9 to 15 miles away). signals were strong. It was multipath that killed it. All was bliss when I put an antenna on the attic.

If your roof is not metallic, an antenna (and an HBU33 would be a good choice) in the attic may fit the bill nicely.

Personally, if an antenna in the living room is a "1" and an outdoor antenna is a "10", an attic antenna in the right kind of attic would be an "8".
Edited by itsthemultipath! - 1/2/14 at 2:33pm
post #11672 of 11755
It's going to depend on what's up there and what's around. If there's a lot of HVAC in the attic, that's a problem. Roof composition can be a problem. Hell, too many crossbeams can be a problem. Someone else on here once said, "Picture a bare lightblulb in the attic and look at all the shadows and reflections. That's what's happening to television signals." In my own situation, the houses on my street are almost in a direct line to 11 & Inkster, five miles away. I can get the stations on rabbit ears in the basement. Not at all in the living area nor with a medium directional in the attic. Small yagi can get Toledo from the upstairs bedroom... not at all from the attic. Wound up mounting a lot of very directional aluminum on a rotor on the roof to get around all of that.

Another issue with attic mounts is positioning. For a small UHF, that's easy. But go to a market where you have both Lo and Hi VHF, or need a larger VHF-Hi component in an attic with a LOT of lumber. Trying to wedge the elements around the beams and still have the thing pointed in roughly the correct direction is not an easy task.

So, the attic is usually better than the living area and not as good as the roof as you said. But not always.
post #11673 of 11755
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

It's going to depend on what's up there and what's around. If there's a lot of HVAC in the attic, that's a problem. Roof composition can be a problem. Hell, too many crossbeams can be a problem. Someone else on here once said, "Picture a bare lightblulb in the attic and look at all the shadows and reflections. That's what's happening to television signals." In my own situation, the houses on my street are almost in a direct line to 11 & Inkster, five miles away. I can get the stations on rabbit ears in the basement. Not at all in the living area nor with a medium directional in the attic. Small yagi can get Toledo from the upstairs bedroom... not at all from the attic. Wound up mounting a lot of very directional aluminum on a rotor on the roof to get around all of that.

Another issue with attic mounts is positioning. For a small UHF, that's easy. But go to a market where you have both Lo and Hi VHF, or need a larger VHF-Hi component in an attic with a LOT of lumber. Trying to wedge the elements around the beams and still have the thing pointed in roughly the correct direction is not an easy task.

So, the attic is usually better than the living area and not as good as the roof as you said. But not always.

Very interesting (and I sincerely do believe everything you reported!)

Very interesting that you get better reception in the basement than on the first floor, as in the basement, you will only get reception by a reflection of a signal (which, if one is 5 miles away from a full-power station, is plenty strong).

DTV reception will never cease to surprise me. A relative in Carleton was gifted a TV with no digital tuner, so I gave her an antenna and a CECB to get it running upstairs in an east-facing bedroom. WHTV (from their new TL, which is WPXD's old TL near Chelsea) is perfectly reliable, in the wrong side of the house.
post #11674 of 11755
Yeah, it's completely nuts. I have a short, Radio Shack UHF yagi I use as kind of a "scouting tool" either with a spectrum analyzer or hooked to an ATSC tuner and portable TV. From my front yard holding it in my hand (on a broomstick), it'll get all of Lansing but ILX. (which is VHF, so no surprise, there). The shotgun yagi on the roof? Just LNS. The same RS yagi, pre-shutoff, would get all of Toledo from my wife's second-story office. Same yagi in the attic directly above her office: nothing. Shotgun yagi on the roof: Just NWO. Post-transition: The array of the shotgun yagi and deep fringe VHF-Hi get the big 4 affiliates and GTE.

On the other hand, the yagi on a pole in the front yard couldn't see Flint at all. The rooftop array gets JRT and CMZ.

Not that I've had any need for any of them, though I will use ABC/Toledo when regional college sports coverage differs from WXYZ. Doesn't happen very often, anymore. And I'll record my network stuff off of Toledo when WDIV does fireworks or Auto Show coverage or WWJ-DT plunges into the Jazz Fest or some such.

Once tried rabbit ears from our studio on the 7th floor of the Traveler's Towers in Southfield (we're no longer up there). Got WXYT and WDIV and that's it. Multipath hell. In fact, our own air monitors were hooked to a directional VHF above our lunchroom (north side of the bldg) aimed at our tower 4 miles NNE. On foggy days and days of extreme temps (either way) we'd hear Cleveland, instead, until 9 or 10 am.
post #11675 of 11755
Speaking of propagation, the snow and fog are making for a few interesting things. I generally can't get 11 and 13 out of Toledo unless my array's pointing AT Toledo. Getting full signal and I'm pointed due east. Ditto that "DIsh" channel that's 99-99 on my Vizio. Might spin the array around for fun.
post #11676 of 11755
Any update to Detroit HD radio?
I read some where that WWJ is only AM STAation left

Any format changes on FM?
post #11677 of 11755
Well, it's hard for me to tell at night in my office. CHB is still HD. If XYT isn't, then it's temporary. DFN also triggered the indicator. A quick run through the FM dial shows everyone who was HD before still is, now. Not getting Deep Tracks on WCSX, but the main is still digital. Then, again, I'm in a weak spot for their signal.
post #11678 of 11755
I pretty regularly check HD substations of 97.1, 101.1, 94.7, 106.7, etc. (sorry don't know the call letters). Can't remember any changes recently, although I will say something not good is going on with 106.7-2; very tinny, very hard to listen to for the past few weeks.
post #11679 of 11755
Does anyone know where WDIV is going to hide the Jan 15 episode of Revolution? They have scheduled some local news special over it at 8 PM. I've searched TitanTV listings through the following week but no alternate time/date is shown yet. I particularly hate it when they do it to a serialized drama. My Tivo doesn't know, either.
post #11680 of 11755
They generally shove it into the 3-4AM slot the next morning. I only know that because I switch from ABC's "World News Now" (which is 90 minutes old) to "Early Today" (which is live) at 4 and often catch the tail end of something they've pre-empted the night before. Though it's not in the listings as such. But thanks for the head's up. I'll have to remember to record that one off of Toledo.

If I go in to be on "Live in the D," this week, I'll ask somebody.
post #11681 of 11755
Last night during the wings game 97-1 was fine 97-2 (WWJ) was fine but 97.1-3 (1270-also doing the wings game) sounded over modulated and muddy
Any idea what can cause that?

My previous statement about am HD radio was from statements I read in mibuzzboard

So 1130 is in HD NOW?
post #11682 of 11755
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktoberrust11 View Post

I pretty regularly check HD substations of 97.1, 101.1, 94.7, 106.7, etc. (sorry don't know the call letters). Can't remember any changes recently, although I will say something not good is going on with 106.7-2; very tinny, very hard to listen to for the past few weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

Well, it's hard for me to tell at night in my office. CHB is still HD. If XYT isn't, then it's temporary. DFN also triggered the indicator. A quick run through the FM dial shows everyone who was HD before still is, now. Not getting Deep Tracks on WCSX, but the main is still digital. Then, again, I'm in a weak spot for their signal.

94.7-2 did indeed have a format change; Oldies.
post #11683 of 11755
There's a contingent of Ibiquity haters who jump on any number of forums to trash the technology, including the HD section here at AVS.

HDradio.com only shows 3 local AMs still running HD. I'll have to ask around.

That said, I don't see anything drawing people back to AM ..at least not those for whom the sound quality is an issue. It salvaged itself with talk and sports, once, but even that's migrating to FM. I'm predicting the future of AM will be niche talk and ethnic programming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktoberrust11 View Post


94.7-2 did indeed have a format change; Oldies.
I have a buddy who's going to be very upset over that. He ditched XM for Deep Tracks.
post #11684 of 11755
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

There's a contingent of Ibiquity haters who jump on any number of forums to trash the technology, including the HD section here at AVS.

HDradio.com only shows 3 local AMs still running HD. I'll have to ask around.

That said, I don't see anything drawing people back to AM ..at least not those for whom the sound quality is an issue. It salvaged itself with talk and sports, once, but even that's migrating to FM. I'm predicting the future of AM will be niche talk and ethnic programming.
I have a buddy who's going to be very upset over that. He ditched XM for Deep Tracks.

I see many many stations going dark as the cost of maintaining or replacing the aging towers will far outweigh any potential future revenue
post #11685 of 11755

Hi All, first post here and i hope you can help me.  My mom in Rochester has an attic antenna and GE (i think) convertor boxes on 3 TVs in the house.  Gets all the normal Detroit stations just fine.  Now suddenly she cannot receive 4.1 or 4.2 on any TV.  I  asked her to try bypassing the splitter that feeds the 3 TVs but she didn't know where it was located.  

She called the station and they said nothing changed on their end and that it must be her antenna.

Anyone have any idea what might be going on?  Nothing has changed and there is no snow on her roof.  Every other station still works fine.

thank you!

Ken

post #11686 of 11755
105.1 -2 seems to be in mono,

is this common with subchannels?

edit: maybe it was just the one INXS song I was hearing,
post #11687 of 11755
Quote:
Originally Posted by billmich View Post

105.1 -2 seems to be in mono,

is this common with subchannels?

edit: maybe it was just the one INXS song I was hearing,
You'd be shocked at how easy it is to dub a song into the system in mono. We probably have to fix one or two a month. Our system uses a proprietary audio format. Yeah, it has a built-in ripper, but that thing rarely gets it right, so a lot of songs we do the old way.

FM station I worked for in Tulsa had L R reversed on the automation output for something like 8 years before anyone noticed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS-MI View Post

Does anyone know where WDIV is going to hide the Jan 15 episode of Revolution? They have scheduled some local news special over it at 8 PM. I've searched TitanTV listings through the following week but no alternate time/date is shown yet. I particularly hate it when they do it to a serialized drama. My Tivo doesn't know, either.

BTW, yes, "Revolution" is pre-empted on WDIV, tonight. Revolution will air at 8 p.m. on WADL-TV 38. With three subchannels. Yeah, I'll be picking that one up off of Toledo.


And I'm on "Live in the D" at 11AM Friday.

Anyone else going to the Charity Preview?
post #11688 of 11755
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenk-mi View Post

Hi All, first post here and i hope you can help me.  My mom in Rochester has an attic antenna and GE (i think) convertor boxes on 3 TVs in the house.  Gets all the normal Detroit stations just fine.  Now suddenly she cannot receive 4.1 or 4.2 on any TV.  I  asked her to try bypassing the splitter that feeds the 3 TVs but she didn't know where it was located.  
She called the station and they said nothing changed on their end and that it must be her antenna.
Anyone have any idea what might be going on?  Nothing has changed and there is no snow on her roof.  Every other station still works fine.
thank you!
Ken

Is the antenna pointed towards Southfield? That's the first step. Now are 4.1 and 4.2 the only stations that she's lost?
post #11689 of 11755

Yes, pointed toward Southfield. they have lived in the house for 40 years and always had good reception with the same antenna orientation... just 4.1 and 4.2 are gone.  We upgraded the antenna connection to coax about 10-15 years ago.  All other stations work fine.

thanks

post #11690 of 11755
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenk-mi View Post

Yes, pointed toward Southfield. they have lived in the house for 40 years and always had good reception with the same antenna orientation... just 4.1 and 4.2 are gone.  We upgraded the antenna connection to coax about 10-15 years ago.  All other stations work fine.
thanks

Can the converter boxes measure the signal strength of each channel? If not, can you hook up a box that can measure the signal strength?
post #11691 of 11755
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post


BTW, yes, "Revolution" is pre-empted on WDIV, tonight. Revolution will air at 8 p.m. on WADL-TV 38. With three subchannels. Yeah, I'll be picking that one up off of Toledo.


Thanks for the feedback. I saw it in time to set a recording. Softest HD I've ever seen. However, I don't have much of an antenna; it lacks the reach for Toledo. So, I'll be grateful to have something.

Titan TV and 38's PSIP data didn't list this on 38. Every other guide still thinks Revolution is still on 4.1. I did see a tweet at the last minute on "Click on Detroit" but WDIV could have done a better job getting the word into listings.
post #11692 of 11755
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenk-mi View Post

Yes, pointed toward Southfield. they have lived in the house for 40 years and always had good reception with the same antenna orientation... just 4.1 and 4.2 are gone.  We upgraded the antenna connection to coax about 10-15 years ago.  All other stations work fine.
thanks
40 years? When's the last time you replaced the coax or at least checked the connections for corrosion. Yes, corrosion can affect some part of the spectrum, but not others. It can also drop signal levels enough that weak stations disappear. Of course, with digital, it's all or nothing. 4 could have been on the brink, anyway, and something in the line took the signal down enough to kill it. Check ALL your connections, switch out splitters then check antenna orientation. Your antenna worked in the analog days because 4 was on 4. Now, 4 transmits on UHF.
post #11693 of 11755
Pretty sure this affects maybe two people, but BHN is moving 9 SD digital channels to the Switched Digital Video system starting February 11th. So if you're on a CableCard TV or a TiVo, etc, without a tuning adapter, kiss these goodbye:

C-Span 3
BBC America
Science
Chiller
H2
Centric
MTV2
Military
Nicktoons

Of course, if you have a BHN cable box or DVR, nothing's changing.
Smells like they're clearing space for 1 or 2 HD channels. Might check the Orlando BHN thread for more as they're pretty obsessive about BHN and what they get we get sooner or later.
post #11694 of 11755
Quote:
Originally Posted by rreini View Post


Can the converter boxes measure the signal strength of each channel? If not, can you hook up a box that can measure the signal strength?

Not sure, but i will check that out next time i go to the house.  I understand from my brother that there is a powered signal amplifier in the basement, so it's possible that has failed or is affecting the system. my check will include that device as well as trying a connection from a location before the amplifier and splitter to see if that resolves it.  it should at least narrow down the origin of the problem.  

Thanks for the advice everyone.

post #11695 of 11755
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS-MI View Post

Thanks for the feedback. I saw it in time to set a recording. Softest HD I've ever seen. However, I don't have much of an antenna; it lacks the reach for Toledo. So, I'll be grateful to have something.

Titan TV and 38's PSIP data didn't list this on 38. Every other guide still thinks Revolution is still on 4.1. I did see a tweet at the last minute on "Click on Detroit" but WDIV could have done a better job getting the word into listings.
Looks like they re-ran it. My HTPC picked it up and shows it aired Thursday night at 8, which means WDIV pre-empted something else to re-air "Revolution." Odd.
post #11696 of 11755
Not sure how to check this or what can be done about it. But the last two Red Wings hockey games on FSN Detroit HD have had only one channel of sound coming through (RF speaker). Although my receiver shows Dolby Digital. Plus it seems to come and go.

The SD channel has regular sound (2.0 not 5.1 which HD is supposed to be).

I'm playing this through my HTPC connected to HDHomeRun Prime.

I don't know if this is a problem with my setup or my provider WOW.

Is anyone else seeing this problem or are you getting DD 5.1 from your provider?
post #11697 of 11755
Is it JUST the hockey games or is it a full-time issue?

I haven't checked in a while. Last time I did, DirecTV showed 5.1, but almost nothing was coming from the rear speakers. Everything else was fine. But I haven't watched hockey with the sound up, lately. We're generally watching something else on the main screen and have the game showing on one of the others.
post #11698 of 11755

Is something wrong at TVO (Ch. 32 - Windsor)? 

 

I have several ATSC tuners all being fed from the same antenna.  Except for an occasional weather related loss of signal I get great reception of TVO here in Northville.

 

For the last few days, however, four of my tuners can detect the TVO channel but say "no signal available" if I try to view that channel.

 

The tuners that fail are my networked SiliconDust HomeRun (dual), two Mygica usb sticks and a Sceptre monitor/TV.

 

The tuners that still get 32 just fine are a Vizio TV and an old Divco card which is 3db down from the HomeRun.

 

All other channels are fine on all tuners.

 

Could something in Ch. 32’s PSIP be confusing these tuners?  Has anyone else lost TVO?

post #11699 of 11755
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northville Dave View Post

Is something wrong at TVO (Ch. 32 - Windsor)? 

I have several ATSC tuners all being fed from the same antenna.  Except for an occasional weather related loss of signal I get great reception of TVO here in Northville.

For the last few days, however, four of my tuners can detect the TVO channel but say "no signal available" if I try to view that channel.

The tuners that fail are my networked SiliconDust HomeRun (dual), two Mygica usb sticks and a Sceptre monitor/TV.

The tuners that still get 32 just fine are a Vizio TV and an old Divco card which is 3db down from the HomeRun.

All other channels are fine on all tuners.

Could something in Ch. 32’s PSIP be confusing these tuners?  Has anyone else lost TVO?

I've just tuned in TVO on my Samsung set's built-in tuner -- no problem.
post #11700 of 11755
Punched it up on my "antiquated" 12-year-old Zenith DTV1080 ATSC tuner and it's hitting at around 90%, which is pretty normal. It's good on the Vizios, too. Somewhere, I have a Sammy T-151 which is very sensitive to PSIP table issues. Not sure where it is, though. Might have loaned it out.
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