Detroit, MI - HDTV - Page 55

It costs more to do a game in HD than in SD. The fact that they did any of the three is rather remarkable. Follow the money. There has to be an economic advantage to doing it or an economic disadvantage to not doing it. Right now, the latter is not in play. The NHL is not a ratings grabber, so it's tough to sell the upcharge for HD to a sponsor. And it's REALLY tough to convince the beancounters that you need to do all three games in HD when there's no additional revenue to be gotten from it.

That will change. But for now, that's the way it is.

What they have to lose, is money. There are additional production costs of doing a game in HD, would just be a write off on the balance sheet. The small minority of HD viewers who decide what to watch based on whether or not the program is in HD is not a major concern of NBC. NBC and its advertisers are probably more concerned about people watching their programs based on the content of their programs rather then the format it is broadcast in. Television business decisions are made so the companies can turn a profit, not please a small segment of viewers.

Plus with the NBC/NHL contract being a profit sharing deal, the lower the production costs the sooner the the deal can turn a profit for both the NBC and the NHL. Both parties, espaically the NHL, would most likely reinvest the profits into the league. That reinvestment will most likely do more to bring in viewers/fans over the long run then doing 2 or all 3 games in HD right now.

Great minds must think alike, and apparently at the same time.

I'm not in the business, so I have no idea how "hard" it is to do, but it has been posted numerous times here by people who do know, the cost is considerably higher.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, there can be bandwidth limitations on the distribution channels used by the network. NBC is producing three, not two, regional NHL games each Saturday, and considering the dismal ratings I'm sure they are getting on these games, I don't think it's true they have "nothing to lose" by producing all of them in HD, given the added cost of doing so.

I honestly think we're lucky they are producing even one of them in HD.

Edit: Wow, I must really be a slow typer. Two guys posted all this stuff while I was composing this post...

I had the Triple LNB dish and H10, but upgraded the receiver to the H20, due to its vastly superior OTA receiver. It gets everything in great with the antenna that the H10 couldn't. Once spring hits and the ground thaws, I plan to add the AT9/5LNB dish on a pole and trench it back to the house.

You're not mistaken. NBC doesn't have a full-bandwidth backhaul system (yet, that's coming) and only two outbound HD paths. Assuming they have 2 HD profiles capable of handling live sporting events (and I don't know that), the most they COULD do would be two. Given that it costs anywhere from a third more to half again to produce a sports event in HD, you can see why the networks don't do it unless they have someone to underwrite it or they're forced to (NFL). That'll change when the penetration of sets is big enough that either not being in HD will affect the ratings or advertisers start producing all their commercials in HD and insist they air that way. The latter is more likely to be the bigger driving force. I'm rambling. I need coffee.

Have you checked/played with any of the default TV or HD Tuner settings (yet)? It sounds to me like the 16:9 is being forced (likely by default if it is "out of the box") into 4:3 for HD signals. It could be either the HD Tuner and/or the TV are assuming a 4:3 TV. Start with that and maybe some others will chime in with other suggestions who are more familiar with Comcast than I am.

I have the Triple LNB dish (on my garage w/coax run in the air back to the house). I plan on getting the AT9/5LNB in the spring and pole mounting it in the ground when the ground thaws out. I got the H20 now due to its vastly superior OTA tuner (much better than the H10).

FWIW, Fox HD Ch. 2-1 is still causing the H20 to reboot/reset. I wonder if the signal strength is too strong? I may try a signal attenuator and see if that helps.

Does anyone know if the HDMI port on the 6412 Phase III is active?

I have a new Sony STRDA7100ES that offers HDMI switching and I can not get it to work using a DVI to HDMI cable. I can get the reciever to pass the audio signal but not the picture.

My theory is that a pure HDMI signal would work better.

Also my father in law has this box but does not even have an HD TV and no use for the HDMI plug.

Does any one know how hard it would be to simply swith the boxes?

Thanks DrDon - That did the trick!

That's m'job. No, wait.. that's m'hobby. My job is waking you up. Tough to do with late games!

I'm a first time poster here, so I hope I'm not asking a question that been asked thousands of times before. Has anyone had experience with capturing the firewire signal from their SA8300HD on WOW? I've found info in the hardware forums that suggests the big factors are the STB software version, and what the local cable company has enabled. Any experience with whether and how extensively WOW has enabled firewire?

Thanks,

I had this from someone as a response as to why my D* H20 is rebooting every time I switch to Fox 2 OTA HD (Ch. 2-1)....

"A receiver that sticks or reboots on a specific OTA station is usually due to a bad PSIP signal from the station...Sometimes a station will change its PSIP output and doing a rescan for local channels with your receiver is required."

Is this true?

I've rescanned my local channels and the H20 receiver still reboots upon switching to Fox 2 OTA Hd (Ch. 2-1).

Anybody?

Check my posts a page or so back. WJBK has a wrecked PSIP. You should call them and let them know your situation.

[quote=Dawgdaes]Does anyone know if the HDMI port on the 6412 Phase III is active?

Mine from Comcast is active. Directly connected to my LG Plasma.

-- Jim

DrDon, thanks for the heads-up.

So Fox 2 has a wrecked PSIP?

So, it appears that anyone in Motown with a D* H20 recevier (and some other receivers as well it appears) can't get their HD feed. This reciever is the latest and greatest and not some outdated thing. I'd like to let them know about it.

I'd be happy to let the folks at WJBK know about this. I've missed two football game in HD due to this (LOL, sad but true).

How do we contact them to let them know this is an issue? Do you have a phone number? E-mail address?

I just went to WJBK's website and used their Contact Us option under Programming. Perhaps if enough people contact them to complain about the PSIP issue, they will do something.

For those of you who are able to receive Fox2 in HD, those of us who cannot would also appreciate it if you could take the time to complain to WJBK - we may need your help to get WJBK to understand that THEY are the source of this problem.

If someone has a better avenue for getting PSIP complaints to WJBK, please post it!

Thanks.

folks who are trying to justify NBC's decision NOT to broadcast their TWO OR THREE hockey games in HD are, like the NBC brass who apparently made that decision, flat-out short-sighted.

You have PBS, for crying out loud, broadcasting round the clock HD as well as SD....PUBLIC BROADCASTING...which is begging for money just to survive, can do it.

You mean to tell me it makes sense for NBC to save a few dollars now instead of grabbing the new wave of technology by the horns and being a leader with it?

no. not in my opinion.

This is why NBC is 3rd string these days. They have no vision or balls.

jmo

berriman the comparison between NBC and PBS just doesn't work.

First, PBS is a not for profit organization, NBC being part of General Electric is a for profit company. The corporate culture of GE can clearly be seen in NBC over the last few years, as they have dropped money losing sports rights, for profit sharing (NHL) and sports rights agreements that benefit the whole company (NFL).

Secondly, PBS produces very little live HDTV. The last program I remember is the Capitol Fourth. The costs and technological limitations of doing live tv are greater then that of taped programing.

Thirdly, not everything on the PBS HDTV channel is in true HD. A good number of their shows are SD widescreen.

The television business like most other businesses is about making money, not embracing money losing technology first when their is no clear advantage to be first.

I e-mailed into Fox 2 to complain about the PSIP problem as well. There must a bunch of D* HD customers (all new ones anyway) that use the H20 who are having this problem. I guess the only way around it sans Fox 2 acting upon it will be to get the AT9/5LNB dish and get their station in that way.

However, this isn't right. We should be able to pull it in OTA with the H20.

In addition to the e-mail, I will gladly call Fox 2 if someone can find a number. The one I found on the web site and called, just had some garbage from Huel Perkins and generic numbers to press.

Slightly OT, but I've been in contact w/ SBC re: fiber to the home/node, for video, voice, and internet service. The guy I spoke with was helpful. He said that they are doing Internet-only on the fiber in test markets, which included Mount Clemens and Auburn Hills. He said as of now they offered a 3mb download/1mb upload package for $39.99, or a 1.5mb download/1mb upload package for $34.99. He said they are doing FTTH in new construction, and FTTN in existing homes. They expect this roll-out to be completed by 2008. He said they are expecting a total of 20mb down/5mb up of bandwidth per home. He said that in tests, there was not much difference (if at all) between fiber to the home and fiber to the node, then copper the remaining distance. He said once other services are offered (including IPTV), they would make more use of the available bandwidth to the home, and different packages would be available.

Is anyone here by chance a tester? If so, any impressions, at least on the Internet side? Anyone else have any info? I'll be following this closely.

Thanks,
Matt

"The television business like most other businesses is about making money, not embracing money losing technology first when their is no clear advantage to be first."

You may or may not be correct. There is certainly a rational argument to be made that NBC would IMPROVE its chances to make money on the NHL if they were to showcase the sport's attractiveness in HD, and trumpet their "leadership" role in showing high quality HD sports programming like the NHL. Every indication is that HD is becoming ever more important, growing by leaps and bounds now and into the forseeable future. Why not put your best foot forward with your "investment" in NHL hockey? Be bold. Be visionary. Otherwise, the NHL on NBC will just wither away and be gone again in no time.

The NHL on network TV NEEDS a stimulus, ....a kick in the butt, ...and HD could be that kick. To simply say, "well, the NHL is not a priority...thus, we will not embrace expensive technology to show it at its best" is short-sighted...and is, imo, symptomatic of why a network like NBC is struggling......old, tired habits with "lowest common denominator" thinking and programming.

There are two things that NBC can do to improve its bottom line on the NHL, lower costs or raise ad rates/gain more viewers.

1. Lowering costs: They already are doing this, through only doing one game a week in HDTV and a profit sharing rights agreement with the NHL.

2.Raise ad rates/gain more viewers: NBC is most likely charging the most they can for ads during NHL games. So a simple raising of the ad rates of the long term would not work. Gain viewers is the other way to raise the ad rates for your programming, however, with a sport that is not all that popular outside of a few select cities that would be a tough task. Any extra viewers that NBC might be able to pull in, would not be worth the cost of doing all three games in HDTV. Maybe when HDTV penetration is at a higher level this would be a thought, but right now the vast majority of people are only watching in SD.

As far as the NHL needing a stimulus to draw in more viewers, HD is not going to be it for now because the people the advertisers care about are still watching in SD.

An example, would be CBS NFL football. They were first on the scene with HD games, yet outside of the goodwill it gained CBS, it earned them nothing the ratings department, where it counts. As the majority of people watching games care more about announcers, graphics, and most importantly the teams playing. It is in those areas that the television networks have invested their money. The demand for HD by the advertisers for HD sports may be there for the NFL, but it has not reached that point for the NHL.

NBC has been nothing short of bold and innovate in their sports department. Arena League and NHL agreements that allow the network to share revenue with the league, allowing for a greater chance of making a profit. Their new NFL Sunday night package for next season, involved the security, lighting, and medical divisions of General Electric. NBC will most likely lose money on the contract, but it will be a loss leader for GE's other divisions. The Olympics, which is high value programming, that typically at least breaks even or makes a small profit. A few years ago, NBC experimented with the XFL, it was a bold move that lost money, but the business risk of the move was very small. NBC even though they say that they overpayed for NASCAR, were probably very happy with it and them getting out of it is more of a function of them getting SNF and ESPN wanting a piece of the NASCAR pie back. These were all bold moves in the business sense that have positioned NBC Sports to be a very important part of the NBC/GE business

I sent in my complaint. It was really swell of them to thank me for my comments

Comcast has temporarily added another HD channel, 200 - NFL Network. So far I haven't seen any HD programming, but we've got 13 days before XL, so here's hoping.....

Get back to us after attending 'Basic TV Business 101".

I'm shopping around for an OTA tuner, and I'm wondering if I will need a combo ATSC/NTSC unit for the Detroit area. Are all the major networks broadcasting an ATSC signal 24/7, or will I need to be switching back and forth between my TV's NTSC tuner?

I realize that the programming will not all be HD-sourced, but I'm wondering if there is content being transmitted consistently over ATSC.

All of the major network affiliates in Detroit (and UPN and WB) have quite reliable and consistent ATSC broadcasts, so you shouldn't need NTSC to watch them (depending on your location, of course).

Good luck finding a decent value OTA-only tuner, though. I started shopping around (admittedly not too aggressively) a few weeks ago, and it seems there aren't many choices at the moment. All I've seen is either "old tech" (i.e. no HDMI, etc.) or prohibitively expensive.

If you do find something that works well at a reasonable price, please post back here what you decided on.

Thanks for the info. I just started shopping around myself, but I'm looking at the Samsung SIR-T451 or the Humax HFA100. I have DVI-in on my tv, so the Samsung would be easiest to set up out of the box, but reviewers of the Humax seem to think it has an edge over the Samsung.

Ken H. Perhaps some schooling in coversational comprehension skills would go a long way toward alleviating your troubles.

I wasn't suggesting that the television business "may or may not be" about making money. Clearly, from the context and the ACTUAL WORDING of the REST OF THE POST, what I was suggesting is that perhaps NBC stands a greater chance of MAKING MONEY on the NHL if they broadcast their 2 or 3 games in HD and marketed it as such.