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Detroit, MI - HDTV - Page 239

post #7141 of 11764
By the way, if you're a hockey fan, the Michigan Pond Hockey Classic takes place this weekend at Whitmore Lake. Over 60 six player teams will be competing in different brackets, including women, with ages from 21 to over 60. Games start at 9am both Saturday and Sunday.

If that doesn't do it for you, maybe these two words do : Beer Tent.

See you there.

http://michiganpondhockey.com/
post #7142 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

By the way, if you're a hockey fan, the Michigan Pond Hockey Classic takes place this weekend at Whitmore Lake. Over 60 six player teams will be competing in different brackets, including women, with ages from 21 to over 60. Games start at 9am both Saturday and Sunday.

Will it be in HD?

Seems like a tough break for them that the weather warmed up this weekend.
post #7143 of 11764
Greetings from Erie, PA:

02-07-09 21:00 [02:00 UTC]
48°F [8.89°C]

WXYZ-HD 7.1
WXYZ-SD 7.2 Yippee!
WXYZ-WX 7.3

Stations seem to be popping in and going out again; but apparently the 52°F
we got up to today helped! Lake Erie is still mostly frozen although my telescope
has seen a few vessels on the Lake (freighters and such)...

Let the good times roll!

PS: Someone should let me know if any of the silly Erie stations are making it
over to Detroit, LOL. (Hey it could happen :-)

//Rich//
post #7144 of 11764
Only Erie digital I've seen is WQLN-DT, actual channel 50 (from Temperance, actually, not Detroit Proper). All of the others are either too weak, or blocked by another station on the same channel.

However, Buffalo stations on 33 (2), 38 (7) and 39 (2) are regular visitors in April and May, often for hours on end, whenever the air over Lake Erie is more than 18° F (10° C) warmer than the lake itself.
post #7145 of 11764
Interesting: The NASCAR qualifying is letterboxed on Brighthouse cable's analog 2, but it's fullscreen on WJBK analog OTA. We already know Brighthouse cable's analog channel 2 is carrying WJBK-DT, but this is the first time I've seen an HD program letterboxed on BH analog 2.
post #7146 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

Interesting: The NASCAR qualifying is letterboxed on Brighthouse cable's analog 2, but it's fullscreen on WJBK analog OTA.

Fullscreen on DirecTV's SD 2.
post #7147 of 11764
I did a rescan Saturday, Sterling Heights, MI Comcast. Picking up on QAM the ION channel is Showing HD on CH 31-3 but my Vizio is getting a blue screen labeled "scrambled"

I also noticed that 70% of all channels are being delivered as a digital signal now. before I was get around 28 now im getting 59.
post #7148 of 11764
I currently get the local WJBK-DT HD feed with a "UHF only" OTA antenna (Silver Sensor) but since the station will be switching to VHF on June 12th, will I need a new OTA antenna or is it possible that I will still be able to get the HD feed when it is VHF?

Thanks!
post #7149 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin803 View Post

I currently get the local WJBK-DT HD feed with a "UHF only" OTA antenna (Silver Sensor) but since the station will be switching to VHF on June 12th, will I need a new OTA antenna or is it possible that I will still be able to get the HD feed when it is VHF?

Thanks!

Depends on how far away you are. Indoors with a Silver Sensor. Hmm. I'd hazard a guess it's probably not going to help much outside of 6 - 8 miles until they're at full power. Then you might get a dozen. Luckily, if you're close enough for a Silver Sensor to work NOW, a ten-dollar pair of ordinary rabbit ears should work well, THEN. I just have a UHF on the roof and I'm going to wait and see what happens before I opt to crawl up there, stick on a VHF and battle the HOA ...again.
post #7150 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

Depends on how far away you are. Indoors with a Silver Sensor. Hmm. I'd hazard a guess it's probably not going to help much outside of 6 - 8 miles until they're at full power. Then you might get a dozen. Luckily, if you're close enough for a Silver Sensor to work NOW, a ten-dollar pair of ordinary rabbit ears should work well, THEN. I just have a UHF on the roof and I'm going to wait and see what happens before I opt to crawl up there, stick on a VHF and battle the HOA ...again.

I am between 7 and 8 miles away so hopefully I will be ok. Regardless, I guess I will just have to wait to see too.
post #7151 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin803 View Post

I am between 7 and 8 miles away so hopefully I will be ok. Regardless, I guess I will just have to wait to see too.

It's only a rough guide since they're in different places, will have different heights and power, but see how well 7 comes in on an analog TV now. If it's pretty clear, then things are ...promising. Still, no sure way to tell until the switch.
post #7152 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbb1226 View Post

Will it be in HD?

More like BD. Beer definition.

Quote:


Seems like a tough break for them that the weather warmed up this weekend.

Well, it seems like we can't get a break with the weather. Last year it was so warm we couldn't play on Saturday, and Sunday was 3 degrees and wind chill of 25-20 below.

This year, Saturday the ice was playable but very wet on the sides of the rinks, Sunday was better but still somewhat wet in spots.

Oh well, maybe next year.
post #7153 of 11764
Many readers here may be waiting until (now) June 12th, to see if they will be able to receive their local digital TV stations with their digital converter boxes (or new digital TV sets), and their existing antenna systems.

My strong advice: Don't wait! If you have a converter box, it will already work. All (USA side) full power stations in the Detroit area are already transmitting digital as well as analog (this is something most of us reading this already know, but you'd be surprised how many people I know who think the boxes won't work until the analogs go off the air!).

Even if you don't have a digital set or converter box (say, you're on the waiting list for your NTIA coupon), you should be looking for potential problems now. What is not widely known is that you can use your existing ANALOG reception to get some idea whether or not you'll have problems with digital reception.

Use the same antenna you are already using, in the same place and position you are already using it, and watch channels 7, 50 and 62 for a while.

Pay attention first to how steady these stations come in. If, from time to time, the picture "rolls" vertically, or "twists" horizontally (loses sync, in tech talk), you are bound to have very serious trouble with digital reception. Next, if you notice that the sound is prone to briefly cut out, the color fades to black and white and back to color, or the edges of subjects in the picture look like they are traced with a pen (uneven frequency response, in tech talk), you may have problems with digital as well.

If channels are free of these problems, and all three stations are snow free or have "only a little snow", you have a better chance of reliable digital reception (not quite a guarantee). Now check channel 7 in particular. If it is snowy, suffers electrical interference (lines or dots moving slowly up the screen) or the picture is full of unwanted lines (interference), you'll likely have trouble watching Fox 2 after June 12th.

These tests are best done on a windy day. Trees blowing in the wind expose multipath problems. If you have good reception on a windy day, you will have good reception on calm days, too. But your reception may be fine on a calm day, and bad when it is windy.

Much has been written about the problems encountered when using (or perhaps TRYING to use) indoor antennas for digital TV. A common fallacy is that indoor antennas can work for a limited distance (usually quoted as between 10 and 20 miles). The fact is, some viewers are getting good digital reception with indoor antennas as far as 50 miles out, while many can't get a station less than a mile away to stay in!

Out to about 30 miles from transmitter sites (from full-power stations, which Detroit's DTVs are), indoor antenna reception is far less likely to be harmed by low signal strength than by multipath. Multipath, oversimplified, is the electronic equivalent of an echo. We all know that a concert sounds awful if you're behind the concrete bandshell, and digital TV reception is no different. Unwanted "echoes" from other buildings/houses/trees can interfere, especially of the most direct path is blocked.

If you live in a wood or vinyl exterior house, you may find that your indoor antenna works where it already is (it might not), if your house is brick, concrete, or metal sided, you probably are accustomed to watching a lousy picture. The first remedy is to place your antenna (and, if necessary, the TV itself) in a room on the side of the house facing most of the TV transmitters (to those of us in Southeast Michigan, that means a room that faces Southfield). If your reception is still unsteady (particularly at UHF), try placing the antenna behind a large window facing Southfield. Which way an indoor antenna is pointed matters less than exactly WHERE you put the antenna.

If you still have trouble, something other than "rabbit ears" on or beside the TV is in order. This does not necessarily mean a trip to the roof. Attic antennas are often a solution to multipath problems. A signal can go through one wall of asphalt and wood far easier than one wall of brick, wood and plaster, possibly followed by several walls of drywall. The loss of signal caused by the roof is basically equal in all directions, so the desired direct path is still the strongest. At this time you're probably thinking you don't want unsightly coax cable running through the rooms of you abode. The secret is to run the cable in the attic to the ceiling of the corner of a coat closet (a place almost nobody ever sees), down the closet, through the floor of the same, into the basement to the edge of the floor right behind the TV, then back up.

If you're still getting poor (or, if in an exurban area, snowy) reception. You're probably dreading having a huge antenna on the roof. Think again. With digital TV, most people who can get over-the-air reception at all can use a SMALL antenna to get good reception. There are no VHF lowband digital transmitters in the Detroit area (and large antennas are large so they perform well on lowband VHF).

One other thing to note. Most of today's converter boxes are far more tolerant of multipath than digital TV sets and HDTV receivers from about 2007 of before.

Good luck to all! Enjoy ThisTV, RTN, Doppler 7 Weather, and Create, and the snowfree picture.
post #7154 of 11764
I'm sure that anyone posting on this board is pretty well covered.
post #7155 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthemultipath! View Post

Many readers here may be waiting until (now) June 12th, to see if they will be able to receive their local digital TV stations with their digital converter boxes....

No, readers here full well know about the existing Detroit digital stations, and have for years. See the first post in this topic for details.

My All (USA side) full power stations in the Detroit area are already transmitting digital as well as analog (this is something most of us reading this already know.....[/quote]Now you've got it.
post #7156 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

No, readers here full well know about the existing Detroit digital stations, and have for years. See the first post in this topic for details.

Quote:


My All (USA side) full power stations in the Detroit area are already transmitting digital as well as analog (this is something most of us reading this already know.....

Quote:


Now you've got it.


Yes, of course.

But, many newbies to ATSC, many of them with no hobby background, stumble onto forums (AVS, Digital Home, WTFDA, and others) when doing information searches.
This post was primarily aimed at them.
post #7157 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthemultipath! View Post


Yes, of course.

But, many newbies to ATSC, many of them with no hobby background, stumble onto forums (AVS, Digital Home, WTFDA, and others) when doing information searches.
This post was primarily aimed at them.

Anyone who reads here and has questions will ask, and are given answers. You haven't been here that long to know that.
post #7158 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgsdi View Post

I did a rescan Saturday, Sterling Heights, MI Comcast. Picking up on QAM the ION channel is Showing HD on CH 31-3 but my Vizio is getting a blue screen labeled "scrambled"

I also noticed that 70% of all channels are being delivered as a digital signal now. before I was get around 28 now im getting 59.

Interesting. I did a rescan last night and there are no changes in Macomb township.
post #7159 of 11764
Do we care about analog shutoff in our local thread? WMYD (20) ran a crawl on both 20-0 and 20-1 for their analog shutoff on 2/17/09 tonight about 7:15 PM; they have also filed with FCC.

WPXD is the only other Detroit station that has filed for 2/17 shutoff, but their hamster doesn't run fast enough for the signal to make it 40 miles to my house.
post #7160 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS-MI View Post

Do we care about analog shutoff in our local thread? WMYD (20) ran a crawl on both 20-0 and 20-1 for their analog shutoff on 2/17/09 tonight about 7:15 PM; they have also filed with FCC.

WPXD is the only other Detroit station that has filed for 2/17 shutoff, but their hamster doesn't run fast enough for the signal to make it 40 miles to my house.

It might not be the hamster.

Believe it or not, there is an analog LPTV in Highland Park (W33BY) on the same channel (33) as WPXD-DT, and, as one might expect, it kills WPXD-DT reception just about anywhere east of I-275 (oversimplified).

You will get three new chances to get the ION tetraplex:
1) W48AV Detroit (actual TL St Clair Shores) has a CP to switch from analog to digital.
2) With transition, the main DT transmitter will change to channel 31, and you won't have W33BY to contend with,
3) WPXD has made a new channel allotment request to move to channel 19, and, more importantly, to a new TL in Southfield (from where their ciity-grade signal will still cover COL Ann Arbor). If that ever gets approved, they would be (signal-wise) practically equal to all of the Detroit stations.
post #7161 of 11764
Today sound is rapidly pulsing in & out, kinda like someone talking while tapping their hand over their mouth (remember playing indians when you were a kid?).

Anyone else having this problem - hope it isn't my equipment.

KJ, OTA forever!
post #7162 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjjones View Post

Today sound is rapidly pulsing in & out, kinda like someone talking while tapping their hand over their mouth (remember playing indians when you were a kid?).

Anyone else having this problem - hope it isn't my equipment.

KJ, OTA forever!

I'm not hearing anything like you describe. I am hearing periodic sound drops, though. Not very frequent and could be the fact I'm watching it on a computer. In fact, in the time it took to type this, it's stopped happening.
post #7163 of 11764
Just tried again. Was okay for about a minute, then it started back up. Flipped my stereo on & it flashes the stereo detected lights on and off when the sound starts messing up. Bout 4 pulses a second steadily now.

Will try a couple other DTV decoders I need to test out anyway & see if they have the same problem as the SIR-351.

KJ
post #7164 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS-MI View Post

Do we care about analog shutoff in our local thread?

Sure. What would you like to do?
post #7165 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Sure. What would you like to do?

Complain, I guess...

My brother-in-law is in Chesterfield Township (23 & I-94) and gets fair analog there, but when he tried out a convertor the digital signals were so weak that there were no watchable channels. He is in an apartment house, so no outside antenna for him. It is a choice between no TV or pay for the captive apartment cable which he didn't really want and can't really afford.

Just another casualty of progress.
post #7166 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjjones View Post

Complain, I guess...

My brother-in-law is in Chesterfield Township (23 & I-94) and gets fair analog there, but when he tried out a convertor the digital signals were so weak that there were no watchable channels. He is in an apartment house, so no outside antenna for him. It is a choice between no TV or pay for the captive apartment cable which he didn't really want and can't really afford.

Just another casualty of progress.

He needs to try different reception options. If he got decent analog, digital should be possible.

For a start, try the Zenith or Channel Master boxes.
post #7167 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

He needs to try different reception options. If he got decent analog, digital should be possible.

For a start, try the Zenith or Channel Master boxes.

I guess "decent" analog is in the eye of the beholder, but most folks would agree that you can watch a weak analog signal - you get used to the snow and such and the audio is steady. Weak digital is simply unwatchable.

I will take a Zenith with me next time I visit him, and maybe one of my "vintage" HD set top boxes (SIR-T165, SIR-TS160, SIR-T351). Wish I had a decent indoor antenna, too. Any suggestions would be welcome for that - Radio Shack might be a good source cause there are lots of them and I could return it easily if it doesn't help him out.

KJ
post #7168 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Sure. What would you like to do?

Just list them as stations make plans and start their required crawls for shutdown. From the individual posts, hopefully someone will edit post #1 to summarize the market.

But I don't know whether the FCC database or the physical presence of shutdown crawls is more reliable.

It is not clear to me whether the remaining stations will remain on analog until 6/12, or whether we will have a phased phaseout.

For the digital-ready, I think only the date of WJBK's move (digital) to RF 7, and any power or HAAT increases matter.
post #7169 of 11764
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjjones View Post

Wish I had a decent indoor antenna, too. Any suggestions would be welcome for that - Radio Shack might be a good source cause there are lots of them and I could return it easily if it doesn't help him out.

KJ

The Zenith Silver Sensor has worked well for me on UHF. I think Zenith sold it to someone else. Also note WJBK moves to RF07 after the transition, so you may need better VHF-hi band performance.

I also have a DB2. Several people here thinks it works better than the Silver Sensor, but it didn't for me. It is really a small outdoor antenna, but not too ugly if you set it inside.

Does your brother have any rooms facing the tower? If he can put it in or near a window facing the towers, even if he has to run cable around the apartment, it will help a lot. All the stations would be roughly SW from there.
post #7170 of 11764
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