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Detroit, MI - HDTV - Page 259

post #7741 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by confuzzled View Post

There's no date on this announcement, so it may be old news, but anyways ....

http://www.wxyz.com/content/stationl...7/default.aspx

If the announcement that your are referring to is the RTN on channel 7.2, RTN has been there for quite some time. I do believe it has been there over a year.
post #7742 of 11539
Oh well. You'd think they'd put a date on those pages, eh?
post #7743 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by confuzzled View Post

There's no date on this announcement, so it may be old news, but anyways ....

http://www.wxyz.com/content/stationl...7/default.aspx

Yeah... that's very old news.
post #7744 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by confuzzled View Post

There's no date on this announcement, so it may be old news, but anyways ....

http://www.wxyz.com/content/stationl...7/default.aspx

Yes. RTN's been up and running for some time, now. They've even run a scant promo or two on 7.1. 7.3 still has XYZ's own "Weather Channel" which is pretty much automated and runs at a REALLY low bitrate. Though it does carry the occasional cartoon show to fulfill children's programming obligations, I assume.

Doc
post #7745 of 11539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

Yes. RTN's been up and running for some time, now. They've even run a scant promo or two on 7.1. 7.3 still has XYZ's own "Weather Channel" which is pretty much automated and runs at a REALLY low bitrate. Though it does carry the occasional cartoon show to fulfill children's programming obligations, I assume.

Doc

So there's no obligation that such programming has to be on the main channel, then?
post #7746 of 11539
As I understand it, the programming requirement must be met on ALL channels, main and subs. Someone feel free to correct me on that.

http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/08/01/daily.6/
Quote:
Children's programming obligations

A digital station providing only one, main stream of free digital video programming is expected to air three hours per week of "core" educational programming for children. Additional free video programming on subchannels increases the station's core obligation by one-half hour for every one to 28 hours of subchannel programming, up to a maximum of three hours per week per subchannel. Let me do the math: a 24/7 free video subchannel raises the station's core obligation by three hours.

The extra children's programming may be run on the main channel, on the subchannel that generated the additional obligation or divided between the two.

If there is more than one free video subchannel, all the extra core children's programs may run on one subchannel or be distributed across them as the broadcaster sees fit, as long as the programs run on channels that have cable and satellite carriage equivalent to the subchannel that generated the extra requirement. If no subchannel has carriage, they are equivalent.
post #7747 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Well, this is perplexing. As noted, WDIV has made no changes, at least that I'm aware of. Maybe DrDon can check with them.

WJBK (VHF 7) on the other hand may be a problem with a DB8, which is UHF.

With only a DB8 I expected to lose WJBK, but losing WDIV was an unpleasant surprise. I still get WNWO and WILX (and WUPW), and they're easier for me to pick up now, so it's not a big enough deal to me to bother changing my setup.
post #7748 of 11539
Thread Starter 
I don't receive the Free Press TV Guide anymore, but in the copy that's part of the e-edition of the paper, I noticed that the table of DTV channel mappings is out of date. It still shows WJBK on 58; they should update it to 7. I won't comment on the CBC and TV Ontario mappings....
post #7749 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

As I understand it, the programming requirement must be met on ALL channels, main and subs. Someone feel free to correct me on that.

You are correct, that's why they do run children's programming on all of the subs.
post #7750 of 11539
WADL is now carrying Universal Sports on 38.2
post #7751 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenkong586 View Post

WADL is now carrying Universal Sports on 38.2

Thanks for the update, I'll add it to the first post.
post #7752 of 11539
Is WKBD running at a lower power or something? According to TVFool I should have no problem receiving it. The signal is listed for my location as the strongest of all the Detroit area stations, but I haven't been able to pick it up even once. I can pick up WXYZ and WDIV 100% of the time with no problems.
post #7753 of 11539
WDIV was off the air (antenna) between 11pm and midnight yesterday. Quick check just now (4:40pm) and it's back. Anyone know what happened?
post #7754 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagoona View Post

Is WKBD running at a lower power or something? According to TVFool I should have no problem receiving it. The signal is listed for my location as the strongest of all the Detroit area stations, but I haven't been able to pick it up even once. I can pick up WXYZ and WDIV 100% of the time with no problems.

They're running 180 kW but it's directional away from you. Theoretically that should not be causing an issue, but it may be. Also, being on channel 14 could lead to interference from the land mobile band directly below it, but I'd expect that to be more "bursty" and not constant.

I could use some data for WDIV and any other stations you might have added recently.

- Trip
post #7755 of 11539
I suspect WDIV (digital) has (or had) been running with reduced power and/or antenna height, to protect tower crews while upgrading their system.

WDIV wasted no time getting to work. Their analog "nightlight" ended earlier than had been announced, and the analog channel 4 antenna has been removed and replaced with a smooth red pole (presumably a new UHF antenna).

I question the logic in WDIV's change. True, it is better to transmit from the top of the mast than a lower point on the side, but, in their case, they had to reduce power to compensate for the additional antenna height.

Had they left their circular-polarization channel 4 antenna in place at the top, along with its transmission line, instead of scrapping the antenna, they may have been able to sell the antenna and line to a future channel 4 DT permittee for a large sum of money.
post #7756 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Kolton View Post

My connections are fine, and I have no problem with any other channel.

Dan, I'm having the same problem in Auburn Hills on windy (breezy) days. Signal reads 96-98 but get frequent dropouts. Not sure if it's a multipath issue or if WDIV is not strictly adhearing to ATSC standards. I've seen a number of articles stating that many stations are broadcasting "out of spec" signals.
post #7757 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthemultipath! View Post

I question the logic in WDIV's change. True, it is better to transmit from the top of the mast than a lower point on the side, but, in their case, they had to reduce power to compensate for the additional antenna height.

A reduction of power from 973 kW to 873 kW is less than ½ of one dB. The added height more than compensates.

- Trip
post #7758 of 11539
WDIV's been fine from my location in Holly. I've been getting them with a 90-95% signal strength continually lately. WJBK's been at about 80% - big improvement for me after their move to VHF 7.

It looked like WDIV had personnel working on their transmitter as soon as they shut off the analog signal. Let's hope they don't get the bright idea of WEYI in Flint to choke their signal down to 720P to allow them to run a subchannel at 720P. The results aren't pleasant to look at.
post #7759 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsthemultipath! View Post


I question the logic in WDIV's change. True, it is better to transmit from the top of the mast than a lower point on the side, but, in their case, they had to reduce power to compensate for the additional antenna height.

Had they left their circular-polarization channel 4 antenna in place at the top, along with its transmission line, instead of scrapping the antenna, they may have been able to sell the antenna and line to a future channel 4 DT permittee for a large sum of money.

Are you saying they should have kept high power levels and lived with the distortions in coverage that a side-mounted antenna produces? That doesn't seem wise at all given that ATSC does poorly with multipath.

No one is going to want a 20 year old VHF antenna, especially one that requires increased transmitter power to utilize. While a fully cross polarized or circularly polarized antenna would solve some viewer problems, the truth is that the stations are not willing to bear the cost of increased operating expenses nor the capital expense.

Fifty years ago, the viewer had to endure the expense of outdoor antennas, towers and quality transmission line for reliable off-air reception. Those days have returned.
post #7760 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan Free TV View Post

Dan, I'm having the same problem in Auburn Hills on windy (breezy) days. Signal reads 96-98 but get frequent dropouts. Not sure if it's a multipath issue or if WDIV is not strictly adhearing to ATSC standards. I've seen a number of articles stating that many stations are broadcasting "out of spec" signals.

You're probably suffering from some sort of impulse noise problem. If you're using an outdoor antenna the wind is rattling the elements on your antenna. I had that problem where the plastic mounts had degraded in the sunlight and wind would cause movement in the elements and create noise on the antenna killing ATSC.

If it's an inside antenna, could be something blowing around your location that's causing noise. You'll have to poke around and see what it might be.

In what manner do these articles say that the stations are out of spec? Mask? MPEG stream? PSIP? PAT/PMT intervals? What?
post #7761 of 11539
Thread Starter 
WMYD's 20-2 subchannel (a 4:3 simulcast of the main channel) doesn't appear to be there any more -- temporary glitch, or permanent dumping?
post #7762 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by exothermic View Post

In what manner do these articles say that the stations are out of spec? Mask? MPEG stream? PSIP? PAT/PMT intervals? What?

I don't what articles to which the OP refers, but I ran across this report from a TiVo owner complaining about a single OTA channel not displaying. TiVo worked with the station engineer to fix it. This was the explanation:

"ATSC standards call for transportstreamIDs to match. In this case, one of the values did not. We happen to follow the spec more closely than other device manufacturers do."
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb....php?p=7080423
post #7763 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by rreini View Post

WMYD's 20-2 subchannel (a 4:3 simulcast of the main channel) doesn't appear to be there any more -- temporary glitch, or permanent dumping?

Don't know, but it's completely gone for now. Other than a brief run with World Championship Sports Network (now known as Universal Sports, recently acquired by WADL-DT), 20-2's been nothing more than a 4:3 mirror of the main channel 20.
post #7764 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by exothermic View Post

You're probably suffering from some sort of impulse noise problem. If you're using an outdoor antenna the wind is rattling the elements on your antenna. I had that problem where the plastic mounts had degraded in the sunlight and wind would cause movement in the elements and create noise on the antenna killing ATSC.

If it's an inside antenna, could be something blowing around your location that's causing noise. You'll have to poke around and see what it might be.

In what manner do these articles say that the stations are out of spec? Mask? MPEG stream? PSIP? PAT/PMT intervals? What?

I don't remember if the articles identified the specifics of the "out of spec" transmissions.

I'm using a CM 4221 HD outdoor antenna. My problem is trees, I've got about 1000' of 50-100 foot tall trees to contend with. The thing that makes me wonder if their signal is out of spec is that channel 4 has the strongest signal of all my locals, but I don't experience breakups on any of the others even though they have weaker signals at my location.
post #7765 of 11539
I downgraded to one of Comcast's basic packages a few months ago and ran the cable right into my tv (Panasonic 42PX80u) and was able to receive all of the HD locals with no problems. A few weeks ago, they stopped being in HD; i.e. 2-1 still says Fox HD, but it's now just a standard digital channel. I've rescanned many times, but nothing has changed. Any ideas?
post #7766 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by avanalst View Post

I downgraded to one of Comcast's basic packages a few months ago and ran the cable right into my tv (Panasonic 42PX80u) and was able to receive all of the HD locals with no problems. A few weeks ago, they stopped being in HD; i.e. 2-1 still says Fox HD, but it's now just a standard digital channel. I've rescanned many times, but nothing has changed. Any ideas?

2-1 is the HD channel, it may have been showing non-HD programming at the time. All of the SD locals from Comcast are now being label 2xx.y via clear QAM. Thus the SD version would be 202.1.
post #7767 of 11539
Is anyone else having a problem with the time of their Comcast STBs. Mine is running one minute slow, it is causing havoc with the DVR getting the beginning of the shows.
post #7768 of 11539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by homcom View Post

Is anyone else having a problem with the time of their Comcast STBs. Mine is running one minute slow, it is causing havoc with the DVR getting the beginning of the shows.

I think regular STB's are experiencing the same issue; my non-DVR boxes are definitely slow by a minute compared to my iMac.
post #7769 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by rreini View Post

I think regular STB's are experiencing the same issue; my non-DVR boxes are definitely slow by a minute compared to my iMac.

Yeah, the time all comes from the same place, just more of a hassle with a DVR.
post #7770 of 11539
Quote:
Originally Posted by homcom View Post

Is anyone else having a problem with the time of their Comcast STBs. Mine is running one minute slow, it is causing havoc with the DVR getting the beginning of the shows.

It's actually 1min., 20sec. slow. This happened a few months back, too. It took a couple of weeks to fix then. Meanwhile, I adjusted my rec-start times.
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