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Panasonic DVD-S97S FAQ / Brain dump - Page 8

post #211 of 4322
Thread Starter 
Rock,

I think the MB is, overall, about the same as the 1910. People might be able to pick out differences later on. I no longer have the 1910 and am just relying on memory of specific scenes.

Again, there is so much to configure with this player there might be "something" to help out. Except for the MPEG NR, I haven't found it yet.

Paul
post #212 of 4322
I believe this player should have less MB than Denon 1910. Simply coz Panny uses 2310 (which Denon 2910 uses as well) as uses and Denon 2910 shows far less MB than Denon 1910 (which uses 2301)
post #213 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by Cricricri
OT: Chirpie, is it from Punch drunk love ?

You took the box! Let's see what's in the box! [box is opened] Nothing! Absolutely nothing!! Stupid!! You're so stupid!!!

LOL. Nice try... but it's actually from a Weird Al movie... UHF.

Not the greatest movie ever made, not even close, but I liked it and that's the line that popped into my head when I made my account.

^_^;
post #214 of 4322
Can't wait from someone to try it with a front projection device, especially a IF 4805 (low res) to see which res (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i) will look best and if its M1DA plug will interact OK with the HDMI connection.....
post #215 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Rock,

I think the MB is, overall, about the same as the 1910. People might be able to pick out differences later on. I no longer have the 1910 and am just relying on memory of specific scenes.

Again, there is so much to configure with this player there might be "something" to help out. Except for the MPEG NR, I haven't found it yet.

Paul

Paul, is there a way to capture a scene that displays MB on a photo and post it here? I personally have never seen what MB looks like (I guess since I never owned a player with those notorios Faroudja chips).
Also, just wanted to note that it probably would be a good idea to explain to folks the path a video signal goes every time you change resolution settings and cables (i.e. where is it deinterlaced, scaled up/down, etc).
post #216 of 4322
Thread Starter 
Direct Connection from player to display

Two cables: Panasonic HDMI/HDMI , Monster HDMI/DVI

Paul
post #217 of 4322
How extensive is the macroblocking problem? Does it happen every minute, every 5 minutes, or what? Is it just a small part of the screen or does it dominate the picture? I realize it varies depending on your source material, but am curious on your overall take. I've never seen it and am trying to get a sense of whether or not it is a deal breaker for me.
post #218 of 4322
Thread Starter 
Xerin,

It can be scene dependant, display dependent, configuration dependant. Some movies it might never be seen with other movies with specific scenes it can be easily seen.

Here is nice explanation of "macroblocking" in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...49#post4573849

There are *plenty* of threads (especially the Denon threads) that endlessly discuss/debate/deny macroblocking, search on "MB" or "macroblocking". I'll get around to posting pictures but to convey what it looks like via words to anyone's satisfaction is almost impossible.

Paul
post #219 of 4322
I'm wondering how this player compares to the new Sony HDMI player...
post #220 of 4322
I agree - I was always thinking I'd stay away from Sony b/c they don't use Faroudja for 3:2 pulldown but if Faroudja produces MB, maybe the Sony makes sense. Anyone know if Sony's 3:2 pulldown is any good?

Read through the panny manual though and this thing is definitely PACKED with features.
post #221 of 4322
..just wondering. I have a simple set-up. My plasma display is from Panasonic and I have a 3 year old Sony DVD player. My audio is routed thru tube pre-amp and, then, to 2 mono tube amps sitting 2 feet from speakers. I may never know but was thinking to myself, with all this talk of digital hook-ups and different connecting cables..and on and on..will any of this give us a better quality dvd picture than what I have? I know I would get many comments to the contrary but I will never believe so. The next step up in quality will be HD. Until then, I am most happy with my 'simple' set up.
post #222 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
There are *plenty* of threads (especially the Denon threads) that endlessly discuss/debate/deny macroblocking, search on "MB" or "macroblocking". I'll get around to posting pictures but to convey what it looks like via words to anyone's satisfaction is almost impossible.

Paul

Exactly. That is why finally seeing a picture of an MB artifact will be very beneficial to all of us. Perhaps it would be good to take a full screen shot and then a close up of the area which exhibits the MB. Many thanks to you Paul for taking time to accomplish this.
post #223 of 4322
Thread Starter 
If I recall, pictures from other players have been posted in the numerous threads. Finding them however.....

This evening and weekend I should be able to post some pictures.
post #224 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by EricScott
I agree - I was always thinking I'd stay away from Sony b/c they don't use Faroudja for 3:2 pulldown but if Faroudja produces MB, maybe the Sony makes sense. Anyone know if Sony's 3:2 pulldown is any good?

Read through the panny manual though and this thing is definitely PACKED with features.

Eric,
It's generally accepted that for 3:2 pulldown, i.e. film, the Silicon Image 503/504 is the deinterlacer of choice. For video, Faroudja does a better job. If you watch mainly film based DVDs, there's no reason for you to seek Faroudja deinterlacers. If you check out high end DVD players and most of the Denons "pre-upscaling", you'll see Silicon Image deinterlacers. Pioneer tends to use something else, Sony may also. And as Kris Deering said, the main reason Denon switched to the new Faroudja chip was because it was cheaper - the 23xx is a deinterlacer *and* scaler. The Sil503/504 chips are only deinterlacers. Another chip is needed for scaling in "upscaling" DVD players.

larry
post #225 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by PooperScooper
Eric,
It's generally accepted that for 3:2 pulldown, i.e. film, the Silicon Image 503/504 is the deinterlacer of choice. For video, Faroudja does the best job. If you watch mainly film based DVDs, there's no reason for you to seek Faroudja deinterlacers. If you check out high end DVD players and most of the Denons "pre-upscaling", you'll see Silicon Image deinterlacers. Pioneer tends to use something else, Sony may also. And as Kris Deering said, the main reason Denon switched to the new Faroudja chip was because it was cheaper - the 23xx is a deinterlacer *and* scaler. The Sil503/504 chips are only deinterlacers. Another chip is needed for scaling in "upscaling" DVD players.

larry

Interesting. But assuming my price range is roughly $300 or so and I want an upscaling player, is Faroudja my best bet? In other words, should I consider a Sony over a Samsung or Panasonic?
post #226 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by EricScott
Interesting. But assuming my price range is roughly $300 or so and I want an upscaling player, is Faroudja my best bet? In other words, should I consider a Sony over a Samsung or Panasonic?

If possible, try the Sony and Panasonic, and see which one looks the best to you. I know that is not always possible, but that's the only way you can tell what looks best on your display and to your eyes. I see that you have a Sammy DLP, so I'd agree that a player doing 720p via HDMI/DVI is your best bet. The Bravos and Momitsus put out a nice DVI image, but their other issues have been chronicled here.

larry
post #227 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by ratflinger
Just got off the phone with One Call. Looks they aren't expecting anymore 97s until December 1. Ordered anyway just in case I can't find one anywhere else. The rep said that they ran out of sammies & suggested the pannies to their customers & that's part of why they ran out so quick.

I just talked to Brenden online with onecall....He said that they are expecting some more within the next 2 weeks, but they placed another order for some that will be here in December.

The pre-order list probably out numbers the ones being received soon.

I ordered mine yesterday morning. So, hopefully, I will get in on this next batch.
post #228 of 4322
Is macroblocking noticable/present only in digital display devices (fixed pixel count devices)? Do analog (tube) TV's show the problem also?

Thanks,

ps. Great job Paul !! You da man !!!!!
post #229 of 4322
....Holdin' Jim And lovin' him.



Even on the secrets site they're vague about whether upconversion is strictly beneficial for fixed res (read: digital) displays vs. CRT RPTV. Does -anyone- have experience or a link to good a/b comparisons for us users of wacky cathode tech?
post #230 of 4322
TauRus (and others)

Quote:


Exactly. That is why finally seeing a picture of an MB artifact will be very beneficial to all of us. Perhaps it would be good to take a full screen shot and then a close up of the area which exhibits the MB. Many thanks to you Paul for taking time to accomplish this.

As a philosophical point, if one has never seen it and does not know what to look for, one might be better off than having seen it or explained so that it becomes obvious. In this case, ignorance might BE bliss. I haven't seen it as far as I know so I'm not sure I want to degrade my viewing experience by knowing how the image I am seeing is defective.

Radsman

ps I reiterate the thanks to Paul for his enthusiastic evaluation of this player for all of our benefit. Thank you.
post #231 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by silvertone
Is macroblocking noticable/present only in digital display devices (fixed pixel count devices)? Do analog (tube) TV's show the problem also?

Both. It's not a display issue, it's a bad decoding issue and both analog and digital displays are going to display what the source device tells it to.
post #232 of 4322
Thread Starter 
Everybody is welcome!

This weekend should free up a lot more time for the time-consuming items.

Paul
post #233 of 4322
If the macroblocking is less than Denon-DVD-5900, 3910, 2910 and 1910, then it's the best one there is right? =)

Where is the component setup review?!? I thought was going to be done he he eh!!

Paul, buy the anime which I mentioned!! you'll like it and use it for your review! =)
post #234 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by Sango
If the macroblocking is less than Denon-DVD-5900, 3910, 2910 and 1910, then it's the best one there is right? =)

Where is the component setup review?!? I thought was going to be done he he eh!!

Paul, buy the anime which I mentioned!! you'll like it and use it for your review! =)

I have yet to see any MB with the 2910 on my HT1000 at 720p via DVI.
post #235 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Again, there is so much to configure with this player there might be "something" to help out. Except for the MPEG NR, I haven't found it yet.

Paul

Paul,

Have you tried the Depth Enhancer under the Picture Mode in the Picture Menu. I found this information in the Manual.

"Depth Enhancer
Reduce the rough noise in the background to give a
greater feeling of depth."
post #236 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by mallu2u
Anyone know where I can buy this player, besides onecall (out of stock)?

Since you're in the DC area; Grafitti (202-296-8412) is expecting some in a couple of wks (I was referred to them by Panasonic regional sales office). They have a 3-day MBG.
post #237 of 4322
Just read the manual: what are the Color space over HDMI (RGB - YCbCr4:4:2 - YCbCr4:4:4) options for and how will it affect the final picture ?
post #238 of 4322
Quote:


Originally posted by rider
Since you're in the DC area; Grafitti (202-296-8412) is expecting some in a couple of wks (I was referred to them by Panasonic regional sales office). They have a 3-day MBG.

I am very surprised that no local VA store even has this player in their system, let alone have it in stock. Is onecall the only store to have got this player yet or in the near future?
post #239 of 4322
Thread Starter 
Hoodlum, yes, tried Depth Enhancer, didn't work.

CriCriCri,

4:2:2 -- SMPTE 292M
4:4:4 -- SMPTE 372M

Have a look here:

http://www.atsc.org/document_map/interfaces.htm

Here's a more concise description:

http://www.quantel.com/domisphere/in...2?OpenDocument

Paul
post #240 of 4322
For anyone in the DFW area, I called Ultimate Electronics and they are getting them in next week (11/3), BUT the price is high (close to the original MSRP on panny's website).
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