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Sony DVP-NS975V FAQ / Brain dump  

post #1 of 1495
Thread Starter 
Hello,

I have the DVP-NS975V DVD player.

If you have any questions, please ask them!

Sections:

1. Equipment -- Equipment used in evaluation.
2. FAQ's -- Tidbits and special requests. Information on specific video, audio, compatibility, and hardware details are found here.
3. MISC -- Documentation links and other miscellaneous data.

------------ Equipment -------------------------------------------------------------------

Display: Panasonic TC-22LH1 LCD HDMI 1280x720 @ 1080i & 480p & 480i
Hitachi 32HDT55 Plasma DVI @ 1080i & 720p & 480p

Cable: HDMI-HDMI supplied with DVD-S97S, Monster HDMI->DVI cable

DVDs: DVE, Avia, various movies, animation

------------ F A Q's ------------------------------------------------------------------------

COMPATIBILITY:
-------------------
DVD-R: Yes
DVD-RW: Yes, VR mode as well
DVD+R: Yes
DVD+RW: Yes
PAL: <tbd>

DVD Compatibility can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

OPERATION:
--------------
Layer Change: Fast. Maybe .2 secs.

Remember last played position of ejected disc: Yes


HDMI
HDMI->HDMI 1080i,480p
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Differences between the modes/resolution noted in red

Deinterlacing Processor: Sony custom

MPEG Decoder: <tbd>

Macroblocking: No

Chroma Upsampling Error (CUE): Possibly, ICP issue definitely

Low IRE gray/pink: No

BTB and crushing: Passes BTB. BUT only with: CINEMA1, CINEMA2, or MANUAL: PICTURE -2, BRIGHTNESS -2. Basically one has to reduce player Picture/Brightness to get BTB to appear.

HDMI->DVI no black/white crushing (Hitachi 32HDT55) @ either 1080i/720p

WTW and crushing: The picture modes will crush white. Set MANUAL to above settings to avoid white crushing.

Color accuracy via 720p/1080i (green depression):
1080i: Depends on display. If the display allows for SD/HD matrix selection then choose SD and it's OK. If the HD matrix is fixed at HD for 720p and 1080i then significant green depression -20% on Avia decoder check. Some green shades noted in near black areas. Might be material dependent. It is noted that if one sets the player's "TINT" to -3 and reduce the "COLOR" to -2, the most apparent visual affects of the HD/SD color conversion issue can be reduced somewhat.
480p: OK


480i via HDMI: Yes

4:3 Pillarboxng: Yes, some loss of detail noted at 6.75mHz.

Non-Anamorphic DVD zoom: No. The picture can be "zoomed" but cannot create a "screen filling" simulation. The zoom quality is pretty lousy, IMHO.

Frequency Response (DVE): Pretty good, some enhancement noted

Avia 4:3 Pillarbox Pixel cropping (pixels removed):
1080i: 7 Top, 3 Bottom, 0 Left, 1 Right
480p: 12 Top, 7 Bottom 0 Left, 1 Right


DVE 16:9 Cropping: 1080i Image is shifted to the top.

Avia Y/C delay:
1080i: looked perfect
480p: Red +0.07


Avia Moving Zone Plate: Fine detail turned to mush

DVE Motion Pattern: Fairly good, motion adaptive

Subtitle synchronization: Good, some combing noted.

COMPONENT
480p, 480i
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Differences between the modes/resolution noted in red

Deinterlacing Processor: Sony custom

MPEG Decoder: <tbd>

Macroblocking: No

Chroma Upsampling Error (CUE): Possibly, ICP issue definitely

Low IRE gray/pink: No

BTB or crushing: Passes BTB. BUT only with: CINEMA1, CINEMA2, or MANUAL: PICTURE -2, BRIGHTNESS -2. Basically one has to reduce player Picture/Brightness to get BTB to appear.

WTW or crushing: The picture modes will crush white. Set MANUAL to above settings to avoid white crushing.

Color accuracy (green depression): Accurate color, no green depression.

4:3 Pillarboxng:
480p: Yes
480i: No


Non-Anamorphic DVD zoom: No

Frequency Response (DVE): <tbd>
480p: OK but looked a bit enhanced
480i: A bit of rolloff but did not looked enhanced


Avia 4:3 Pillarbox Pixel cropping:
480p (pillarbox): 10 TOP, 9 BOTTOM, 0 LEFT, 1 RIGHT
480i (non-pillarbox): 10 TOP, 9 BOTTOM, 18 LEFT , 20 RIGHT (might be display)


DVE 16:9 Pixel cropping:
480p: Centered well
480i: Image shifted to the right a bit


Avia Y/C delay:
480p: near perfect
480i: -0.07 green


Avia Moving Zone Plate: Turned to much with 480p/i at both rates.

DVE Motion Pattern: OK. 480p motion adaptive

Subtitle synchronization: Good

AUDIO:
--------
HDMI passes two channel: Yes

Audio/video delay/sync: Good sync

CONFIGURATION:
---------------------
Firmware version: <tbd>

HARDWARE:
--------------
HDMI cable: No

Composite, L/R audio cable: Yes

Remote: Yes

Batteries: 2 AA

Power cord: Non-detachable

------------ MISC ----------------------------------------------------------------------

RPTV:
------
<tbd>

REFERENCE:
--------------
The owner's manual is located here:

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro.../DVPNS975V.pdf

Tray locked:
--------------
There have been numerous reports of the tray becoming locked. I have not experienced this problem. However Sony suggests this procedure located here:

http://129.33.22.8/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBC...plate=Case.tem

Basically, unplug the player for 30 seconds and try again, otherwise send in for service.

Sony DVP-NS975V HD/SD color conflict
------------------------------------------------

Some TVs do not allow for the selection of the SD color Matrix at 1080i/720p. The Panasonic TC-22LH1 LCD TV allows for selection at 480p only. NTSC (SD) and ATSC (HD) process color in a different way -- not radically different but somewhat different. DVDs are encoded for SD matrix. The DVP-NS975V converts the 480i signal to 1080i. So far, so good. However, in the case of the Sony, the SD color matrix of the DVD is not converted to the HD matrix. In viewing on a display fixed at HD color matix only at 1080i, the differences between matrices with red and blue are slight. With green, however, the difference is significant. Sending an SD color matrix to a display that is expecting an HD color matrix results in a significant reduction of the color green -- the "green depression". The issue is easily seen via Avia or DVE color patterns. If the display cannot change the matrix at 1080i there isn't much to be done. The display could have the color decoders recalibrated to compensate but that might come at the expense of color fidelity with true HD material. The display's color can be boosted to bring up the green but the red and blue become unreal and the color imbalance still exists. Adjusting the "HUE" on the '975V holds some promise. More later.

What does this "green depression" mean to the average viewer with a TV with a fixed HD color matrix at HD resolutions? In viewing the material at 480p (which has no color problem at SD matrix) and switching to the HD matrix, one can see the major difference is in the rendition of facial tones. EVERYONE has a slightly "yellowish" or "jaundiced" look when viewing HD Matrix @ 480p. Many people might not notice but it's there. Switching back to HD Matrix @1080i mirrors what is seen at HD Matrix @ 480p. I can live with the "jaundiced" look as well but, in my view, it's more "in your face" than macroblocking (pun intended).

What can be done? While there are some other subtle problems, the most apparent of the HD/SD conflict issue, in my view, is the rendition of facial tones. By comparing the HD/SD matrix (switchable for me) at 480p has resulted in this suggestion: See manual's page 59. Set "Picture Mode" to "Memory". Set the "COLOR" to -2 and the "HUE" to -3. These settings seem to hide most of the negative aspects of the "jaundice" look and not introduce much of a negative side affect (so far). Of course the DVE "blue filter" will not be correct, but the visual side affects appear to be minor. If this change is done, please refer to page 81 of the manual and have a look at the "Playback Memory" setting. It might be a good idea to set it to "OFF", as any already played discs will reset the picture controls to whatever setting was present when that disc was first loaded. Setting the controls on the player will avoid the issue of affecting the settings for the other inputs, if the display does not memorize the display settings for each input.

To put this in somewhat technical terms:

For HD (ITU-R BT.709-4) Luma (brightness) is defined as:
Y = .2126R +.7152G +.0722B

For SD NTSC (SMPTE170M) and SD-SDI (ITU-R BT.601-5 or SMPTE-259M) the Luma (rightness) is defined as:
Y = .299R +.587G +.114B

Both equations add up to "1".

Look at the difference in the figures of the two systems that add up to Y (1).

If the signals were identical, difference between the red, blue, and green would be "0" for luma and for the individual colors. The following shows what happens when the standards are mismatched:

Mathematically feeding an SD signal to a system expecting an HD signal shows the differences in the systems.

Y = (+.2990R +.5870G +.1140B) ----> SD
Y = (+.2126R +.7152G +.0722B) ----> HD
--------------------------------------
0 = (+.0864R -.1282G +.0418B) ---> difference between systems

Overall Y (brightness) is unaffected by the conversion but look at the primary colors:

Note that red is somewhat positive, green is quite negative and blue is somewhat positive. If the color standards were the same all of the numbers would be "0". This resulting difference in the equation above is what is seen via the Avia color decoder pattern.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you:
Paul Bigelow
post #2 of 1495
Wow. Looking forward to this post Paul. Looking forward to comparison results with Panny. Will place order tomorrow, based on your comparison. Thanks for setting up this thread. Where did u buy the Sony player from?
post #3 of 1495
Can you test out SACD sound quality. Most current owners are "entry-level" folks with little (or no) hi-rez experience (or capability). Sound reviews have been completely absent.
post #4 of 1495
Thread Starter 
mallu2u: Ultimate Electronics

Rob: I will purchase a few SACDs. I don't have a single one -- just some DVD-Audio.
post #5 of 1495
Ultimate electronics seems like a great store. CC/BB do not have Sony or Panny player :(
post #6 of 1495
Quote:
Rob: I will purchase a few SACDs
Thanks!
post #7 of 1495
Paul,
Awesome and thanks for doing this for all of us. Can't wait for your S97 and S975V shoot out. Would you please give us your initial impression with this player against your S97? Just the overall picture quality between the two and which one is a keeper? Thanks again.
post #8 of 1495
Thread Starter 
tvuong,

For me they might both be keepers! I won't have any findings until later this evening -- have to do some "real life" obligations. ;)

I'm probably going to pair this unit with a Sony RDR-GX7 that is already acquried.

Thanks for the heads up on UE. I had been checking but always came up empty. It literally arrived in the truck this morning.

Paul
post #9 of 1495
Paul,

Did you see the panny in UE ?? If so, which one ? Lakeline or Parmer ?

Thanks
post #10 of 1495
Thread Starter 
mecl,

I have not seen the Panasonic DVD-S97 at any retail store. UE is supposed to be getting it, though.

Paul
post #11 of 1495
Paul --

My compliments on taking on the personal review of both these hot players. You sir are an asset to this open forum.
post #12 of 1495
Paul:
I look forward to your comparison between the Panny and the Sony. I also like the fact you're including the V880. Furthermore, I can not emphasize how thorough and profession your approach to reviewing these units are. I, for one, applaud the your efforts -- while recognizing the degree of work necessary to accomplish this kind of task.

I'd even go so far to say I wish "Secrets" were this thorough! Many will immediately jump on this statement arguing that you don't have the measuring equipment necessary to compete. In that regard, they are correct. But the practical aspects and voluminous detail you provide will be more easily interpreted and even more meaningful to the majority of readers looking for feedback on these units.

Please know my intent is not to start a comparison (or war) between followers of your reviews vs. "Secrets" reviews. (Though, I think your reviews should provide some ideas for "Secrets" to consider). It is my intent to let you know how well I (for one) view what you are accomplishing. And, I encourage others who see the benefit in your approach to join me in applauding your efforts. At the same time, I hope others will go so far as to say how, what, and why they like/dislike what you're doing.

And, from me, a final roaring -- Thank you!

gp
post #13 of 1495
Thanks Paul! Great work! Looking forward to the Sony review.

(Along with what Gregg said - I mainly wish "Secrets" was this quick when the new players came out... rather than having to wait weeks/months)
post #14 of 1495
Thanks again Paul for your effort in bringing us insight and functionality of this new Sony player, but I think the deal breaker for me is its inability to play PAL dvds. I have a large collection of them and the ability to play both standards is a must. Looking forward to your review nevertheless.
post #15 of 1495
Quote:
Originally posted by Micah008

(Along with what Gregg said - I mainly wish "Secrets" was this quick when the new players came out... rather than having to wait weeks/months)
Isn't that because they have to wait for a demo unit from the manufacturer instead of acquiring it through retail outlet like the rest of us.
post #16 of 1495
Could you verify whether or not an HDMI cable is included with this player?
post #17 of 1495
Thread Starter 
Thanks!

Kris does incredible work and has the tools to do it right.

I'm just touching on what I can see and having fun while doing it.

If someone gets some use out of this information or just has a good discussion, that's good enough.

Let's see how it develops over the days and weeks!

Paul
post #18 of 1495
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by chadg803
Could you verify whether or not an HDMI cable is included with this player?
I haven't opened the box yet, but according to the instruction book, it doesn't have the cable. So I'm 99.99% sure it doesn't. We'll find out tonight.

Paul
post #19 of 1495
Rob Kramer - I purchased a SACD last night and briefly played around with it. From my brief experience the sound quality was amazing. Please note that you need to use the 5.1 analog output for SACD.
post #20 of 1495
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
I haven't opened the box yet, but according to the instruction book, it doesn't have the cable. So I'm 99.99% sure it doesn't. We'll find out tonight.

Paul
Hmmm....the cable included with the S97 might make that player a much better value if the sony's performance is comparable. Those things aren't cheap.

Looking forward to your full review!!
post #21 of 1495
Paul,
After reading and enjoying your outstanding S97S thread I was only left wishing for a similar NS975V thread. Well my wee prayer was answered :D, I am really looking forward to your findings, especially the pics!
Thank you for the amazingly thorough effort, both previous & forthcoming.
post #22 of 1495
Thread Starter 
4K,

We'll see what turns up! Both threads are a "work in progress".

Paul
post #23 of 1495
Paul: Are you planning to check out this player tonite? I would love to get your preminary opinion (& comparison with Panny Player) on this player so that I can order one of the two players tomorrow morning itself.
post #24 of 1495
Thread Starter 
Working on it.

Paul
post #25 of 1495
Great! Shall be waiting for your comments
post #26 of 1495
Thread Starter 
The nerve! ;)

Initial findings posted in FAQ section. No macroblocking, has CUE, has significant "green depression" at 1080i. Fast layer change. Fairly fast disc navigation. No problems with HDCP negotiation. No 1080i Jitter via HDMI.

Initial thoughts: Macroblocking is the "hot button" of the present. CUE was the "hot button" of the past. Sensitivities to these issues might be the deciding picture factor for most people. The Panasonic has the superior deinterlacer, no doubt about it, but Sony isn't too bad. The Panasonic has the edge in color as well, but some people might not notice the reduced green levels. Both players have lots of detail -- both better than the Momitsu.

Whew!

Paul
post #27 of 1495
Hey Paul, are you going to test this on the XBR960, as far as I remember you have one of those, I am trying to find out which player (sony vs panny) will work best on my 955. I know its to early to tell...
post #28 of 1495
I suspected some CUE was present. Thanks for the confirmation. Do you think this is a black and white issue or can you comment on the degree of CUE in real world (i.e., distraction).

My HS20 has a very slight green bleed. There may be a 1 pixel misalignment on the green panel (though it doesn't look that far off on the focus grid). I've mostly used 720p. You haven't commented on a green depression at this resolution but if there is some, it might be one reason mine looks good with the Sony. (Might also be the reason your Panasonic looks better with your Panasonic display)?

Please comment on reasons for determining de-interlacing is better on the Panny. (Edit: In fact, Joe Murphy Jr. posts in another thread that macroblocking may be a de-interlacing issue -- which may detract from the Panny being a "better" deinterlacer).

Thanks for prelims.

gp
post #29 of 1495
Quote:
Rob Kramer - I purchased a SACD last night and briefly played around with it. From my brief experience the sound quality was amazing. Please note that you need to use the 5.1 analog output for SACD.
Yes, SACDs (and DVD-As) are a big step up. Im on my third SACD player now.

Quote:
Please comment on reasons for determining de-interlacing is better on the Panny
Faroudja is still the best de-interlacer. There are some macroblocking issues with the latest chipsets, however, their effect varies widely depending upon what type of display is being used.

For every line-item that Faroudja does wrong (macroblocking), there are 100 more line-items that it does right. Other de-interlacers may not have a macroblocking issue, but there are a lot of "other" issues that they fail at.
post #30 of 1495
Can someone explain what CUE is? What is likely to be more distracting overall out of CUE and macroblocking?
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