AE700 Tweak Thread - Page 3

I'm using the PS Audio P300 along with a DVI to HDMI cord. There was a time when they said audio quality couldn't be improved with this approach too.

I think that idea is incorrect on both. I've seen a nice improvement in the light's power and overall punch to the colors on the screen. It's like the projector is able to do a little more of its best. I had hoped to get a special power cord for the projector, but that outlet is not standard so went with a 25 foot round black medium duty one.

I think the improvement is overall in the range of 15-20%. That's my eyes only.

Just got my 700. I didn't see what people were suggesting as initial settings. Obviously everyone needs to tweak there own, but it helps to see other owners setups. Anyone ?

eg.
mode: cinema, normal etc
lamp mode: hi or low,
brightness +/-
contrast +/-

etc...

I want to clarify a few items.

First, the clock and phase adjustments I refer to are on the projector end. Most LCD projectors have Clock and Phase menu items for RGB analog inputs.

We used a Bettercables 10m DB15 M-M cable connecting the Radeon 9800 to the PC/DB15 RGB input on the AE700.

Also, after selecting the Auto function on the AE700 to establish "pixel lock" from the PC at 1280x720 60Hz, the image was 1:1 mapped, but significantly shifted to the left and some low, I believe. The amount of horizontal shift exceeded the adjustment range in the AE700's Horizontal movement option.

This was no problem, as I simply used the Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, Displays tab, Monitor, Adjustments tab to shift the 1:1 mapped 1280x720 pixel image around from the PC end, until there was breathing room in the horizontal position adjustment range on the projector.

Those going DVI would be well advised to consider the SLD Lindy range (10m minimum - up to 25m in length) - I have had mine cryogenically treated where I do my audio cables Down Under (10m length). It fits nicely into the Aussieduct 16x16mm conduit with snap over cover. Nice 'n neat. Very well made too - locally sold for $145AUD (Lindy or at Hometheatrepc.com.au)

The PQ on DVI vs VGA is a noticeable improvement - blacks are considerably blacker and the display appears more saturated and dynamic as a result.

I used a Key Digital DVI-HDMI convertor at the PJ end to get the required HDMI input. This was cryo'd with the Lindy at the same time.

I locked the display using std timing from Windows for 1280x720 then went into Powerstrip to finesse the positioning and minimise cropping (using the Windows Tulips background with extended desktop). This new method using RGB's advice and the 1 pixel mapping looks interesting, must take a look at this over the weekend.

Had a quick look at the Star Wars Pod Race last night and was quickly drawn into the movie - very happy with the PQ at this stage. Also the VB seems to be gone completely using DVI when I had it only slightly on VGA.

Go DVI if you can!

Also I have found a source of variable speed drive power cabling which looks pretty nice. It's available at your electrical wholesaler. It comes in 1.5 and 2.5mm sq configs in three core and has a foil and braid shield with a clear covering - made by Aflex in Australia and sold by AWM for about A$5/m. Rated to 1000V I'm told. I'll be trying this on the PJ power lead once I purchase a length long enough. Will have to butcher the lead supplied to get the clover socket (PJ came with a few different powercords to suit other countries so I can sabotage one of them). My cable and audio experience suggests this will be a worthwhile tweak to the AE700.

RGB thanks for your input. I unloaded powerstrip, installed the RageTweak, rebooted, changed to 1280x720 which was now in the normal windows resolution choices. I set my background to the test pattern (which looked "messed up" as expected) and ran "AUTO" on the AE700. It did its thing, adjusted every setting in the position menu, and the test pattern looked like it is supposed to. Only problem was, like you just described, the picture was still cropped on the left side. I went into the position menu and it looked like the horizontal position adjustment had maxed out the adjustment range. But here's the interesting part -- for some reason I decided to reboot, and much to my surprise, the picture came up pixel perfect, (still no powerstrip), test pattern looking fine, AND no cropping. I was really surprised by this. So anyway, for those using VGA, this is the method that is easiest although picurewise, I don't think its any better than using powerstrip, and hopefully no worse -- looks pretty much the same to me either way although technically I think you get a true 60hz refresh with the RageTweak method as opposed to Powerstrips slighly lower refresh after custom timings are applied.

For those using HDMI, I believe powerstrip is still required to eliminate overscan/cropping issues as the "AUTO" option in the position menu is not available for you.

i am using HDMI and powerstrip and still can't solve the overscan problem. anyone else use HDMI and fix the overscan. pls provide the setting here. thx in advance.

sorry wrong thread

NFS...

Nice catch on the reboot to re-center the 1:1 pixel map 720p image over RGB analog. We were trying so many things that day that I didn't think of rebooting.

Even though I don't mind using RGB analog, I still think Panasonic needs to get dinged for putting the crop/overscan on HDMI inputs.

Be sure to email Panasonic tech support and tell them your concerns. Perhaps we can motivate them to do a firmware update.

At the very least, there should be an option to enable/disable overscan cropping, or adjust it.

I understand their logic- Panasonic probably assumes that all 720p and 1080i input signals are HDTV video, not a computer desktop GUI. Cropping a few lines from video isn't an issue, especially since most movies have black bars in the crop areas (1.85 or higher movies, which would be most).

But it's still no excuse not to allow the option to disable it- after all, this is 2004, not 1999. To assume no one would feed the AE700 a computer via HDMI is ridiculous.

Going back to my assumption re 720p and 1080i HDTV, what if you feed the AE700 1280x720 @72 Hz? The AE700 may not recognize the signal as a standard HDTV signal (which is 60Hz), and may not apply cropping over HDMI. I am assuming current video cards and drivers can go above 60Hz over DVI- I believe earlier driver revs on Radeons locked the DVI to 60hz max. IF the Radeon can't do over 60Hz on DVi, how about a GeForce?

Try different refresh rates from 70-85 Hz at 1280x720 via HDMI and see if the cropping is still there. If ou can go below 60Hz, like down to 48Hz, this may work also to eliminate the cropping at 720p.

It's worth a try. I doubt the AE700 would treat the signal differently, and the down converted rate might not be desirable, but someone with HDMI should try and let us know.

Here's the resolution table from the owner's manual:

I would think that there would be a way to get the 1:1 mapping over HDMI without the ovescan. I definitely am surprised the 700 will sync to most signals coming out of the computer no matter the resolution. I would say when it run at 1920x1080, HDTV demos look almost as good as 1280x720 (1:1 pixel mapped) This is good news for those of us who play games on our HTPC. I have been using 1280x720 up until this time. I did notice some flickering when I am booting up the computer. It looks like blue horizontal lines across the picture flickering on and off. I am not sure if it is my video card, but it did not do this on my L500u. I think I would use RGB, but the picture is easily better on HDMI. I notice the difference. I think there has to be an easy way to eliminate the overscan. I do not like to use powerstrip if I can help it. Different drivers for the monitor in device manager also seem to help quite a bit. If we can get a driver that does all of the adjustments for us, Panasonic sould put it on their website and I think we would all be happy. I would imagine it would be simple as the Powerstrip software essentially does the same thing. Panasonic, DO YOU HEAR US?

RE: WHITE FLASHES

I want to make sure this is what I'm experiencing. Can anyone give me a more detailed description of what it looks like? Is it a snowy flash like a tape dropout - or does it have more of a wiggly loss-of-sync look to it? Or? How often does it occur? Once a movie? Or several times? Does it affect the whole image? Any pattern to it? Repeatability? HDMI only - or other inputs as well? Anybody check w/Panasonic repair yet? Any tweaks for it?

Sure would like to get to the bottom of this. It's the only fly in my 700 ointment now.

Soooo close.

Thanks.

1280x720 @ 72Hz is what I feed my AE700 with a DVI to HDMI lead. It still crops, and interestingly still displays as 750/60 no matter what refresh rate I use. It's definitely syncing to 72Hz, though, 'cos I'm getting stutter-free pans from NTSC film-based DVDs.

OK, here goes.

Mode, the two most color accurate modes out of the box are Cinema1 and Natural. with both, you should also set color temp at -1. I found Natural mode with color temp -1 the closest, which agrees with what they thought at cine4home.

Lamp mode hi/low really depends on you personally and how your PJ is set up, i.e. what screen, ambient light, etc. High mode has little to no effect on dark scenes, i.e. it does not make dark scenes brighter when the dynamic iris and lamp power thingy (can't remember what it's called) is on. It will make bright scenes a little brighter. As mentioned, it's a personal call depending on your setup and tastes.

Brightness and contrast are also highly dependant on your setup with respect to screen type and ambient lighting, as well as image source (DVD player, HD cable etc.). People don't tend to put up their settings for these because one person's settings are generally of no use to someone else with a different setup. A change in just one parameter in the same setup (like an increase or decrease in ambient lighting, or changing your DVD player to a different one) will require changes in the settings.

Basically speaking, right out of the box, Natural mode with color temp at -1 will give you fairly accurate color reproduction without any additional tweaking. If it seems too dull then you might either have a problem with ambient light, or your previous display was tweaked to oversaturate colors and you may need a while for your eyes to adjust to more accurate color reproduction.

Once you get past using just simple settings though, you need to get something like AVIA or DVE to calibrate your PJ. Optimally you could use something like Milori Colorfacts but that might be out of the range for most people. For best picture quality, EVERY signal input should be calibrated separately. For example, calibrate your DVD player input separately and save the settings to memory, calibrate your HD set top box separately and save those different settings to a different memory location, calibrate your XBox/PS2 input separately and save that to a different memory location etc.

Alternatively, some DVD players and HTPCs for instance have setting controls of their own and it might be easier to use one default setting at the projector and then calibrate the settings in the different devices to give a similar image when using the projector's default setting.

It may be synching but I doubt it is operating at anything other than 60 HZ. I would be surprised if the PJ does not strip and regenerate synch as anything beyond 60HZ begins to push the limits of the LCD cycle time - 16ms I believe.

If wished, I will delete this message respecting the original intent of this thread.

ted

Yeah I'm experiencing cropping top and bottom on my HDMI input. It's coming in from a PC's DVI port, I'm using a DVI-HDMI cable.

As for what the relationship between DVI and HDMI is... from what I can understand, HDMI is just an extended spec on DVI, namely adding support for audio, dropping pins from analog video (DVI-A), and more bandwidth for digital signals. I understand that the HDMI and DVI digital display pins are pin compatible, meaning just hook the wires directly together, no conversion is necessary.

Now, I've had many DVI-D monitors over the years (used to sell them), and every single one of them hooked up to the pc and was in native resolution on the first boot after I connected it... why? DVI allows the monitor to tell the pc it's native resolution, and the PC then puts it out.

Now here comes alot of speculation and conjecture on my part:

That begs the question: Why does the panny tell the PC it's doing 720 vertical, and then only display 700 (690 maybe)? It seems to me this can only be a bug in the HDMI negotiation circuitry on the Panasonic, and possibly an additional bug that the panny then sees that the signal it is getting is 720 high but STILL crops off the top and bottom when it knows it can display it.... We're not talking analog signals here, this is pure digital... it's like me telling you 720 and you saying yep, 700. That can only be a bug.

If there is a bug, that thought immediately makes me wonder if this thing is somehow flash upgradeable over the HDMI connection... if Panasonic can release a fix for it... maybe they can somehow get out a fix via a monitor .inf file, but that doesn't help people that have DVDs hooked up via the HDMI port.

Can anyone add to this or tell me where my logic is falling down?

Thanks,

Dan K

Yeah I noticed that bug as well... as for the synching... the panny has 3/2 pulldown reversal even on HD inputs, meaning that it detects and strips doubled fields to get rid of the stuttering, so it shouldn't matter what frequency you pump it, although doing this on the HDMI inputs is kinda strange...

I don't understand why people are trying to drive this thing with 1080i inputs from DVD either... it's like taking a 640x480 picture and blowing it up to 1920x1080, then shrinking it back to 1280x720... they'd be much better off just going directly to 720p right at the DVD player... every time you convert size and frequency, you lose. In fact I can't see a compelling argument for sending anything except 720p @ 50, 60, or 60.1 hz to the panny, with the possible exception that a particular source has an original content size of 1080, AND has a 720p scaler thats known to be weaker than the one on the panny.

lot of us have been looking forward to the new Panasonic PT-AE700E projector to hit the market with baited breath.
I have been a keen player in home theatre and projectors for some years and started with the Sharp XV370P ( bus from pixel city with only 100:1 contrast ratio ! ) but for those days it was a good entry level projector. Two to three years later upgraded to the Sharp XV3400S and had that for a number of years and sold it and had no projector for some months.

Panasonic hit the market with the PT-AE100 wide screen projector, saved up my pocket money and brought one had it for one year and was happy with it but it did have a couple of draw backs.
1) no smooth screen technology
2) only had factory preset colour temp settings ( grey scale )

One year later Panasonic brought out the PT-AE200, PT-AE300 I sold the 100 and upgraded to the 300, that was a BIG step the 300 had this NEW smooth screen technology and 800:1 contrast ratio and user colour temp adjustments this gave stunning results I was very impressed with this projector.

Panasonic then brought onto the market the PT-AE500E, I had to sell the 300 and upgrade again !! The AE500 brought a whole new standard to the $15000 and below projector market and is well known to be one of the better projectors with its 1300:1 contrast ratio . until the release of the PT-AE700E.
As per normal I sold the AE500 and now have the AE700, the following is a quick run down on the AE700 I hope this may help some of you in your decision to buy or upgrade to the PT-AE700.

As a happy AE500 owner if anyone asked me if there was any drawbacks on this projector this would be my short list.
1) VB ( vertical banding )
2) Zoom lens
3) Contrast ratio
4) WSS only works on S-Video and Composite video

Panasonic PT-AE700E
In unpacking the AE700 a very nice looking machine and is slightly bigger than the AE500 ( note the PT-AE700 does not include a carry bag. )

The back panel has many inputs TRIGGER CONECTOR ( outputs 12v when turned on ) HDMI IN ( an adaptor can be purchased to convert HDMI to DVI ), PC in ( RGB ) S-Video, Composite video SCART in ( this includes composite video and RGB ideal for running Sky digital in RGB ) and Component in.
With my system I run S-Video from Sky Digital, Component Video from a Panasonic SC-HT900 home theatre system and a HP notebook to PC in.

The first thing I noticed when turning the projector on was how quiet the fan was, I would have to say a good 50% quieter than the 100, 300 and 500 due to the fan outlet being at the front of the projector instead of the back.

The first thing I wanted to do is to fine tune the projector, set up the flicker adjustments grey scale etc, A big thank you to Peter Masson for lending me the Video Essentials test disc. The factory settings where a bit out ( this is not adnormal as the AE300 and AE500 where out too ) spent a couple of hours setting it all up and have got it close to smack on !!
Here are my settings

PICTURE MODE NORMAL

CONTRAST 0
BRIGHT +3
COLOUR -13
TINT ( NTSC ) -1
SHARPNESS -2
COLOUR TEMP 0
DYNAMIC IRIS ON

ADVANCED MENU

GAMMA HIGH 0
GAMMA MID 0
GAMMA LOW 0
CONTRAST R 0
CONTRAST G -4
CONTRAST B +7
BRIGHT R -2
BRIGHT G 0
BRIGHT B 0

OPTION

QSD ON
NR OFF
CINEMA REALITY OFF
BACK COLOR BLUE
WSS ON
FRONT/REAR FRONT
DESK/CEILING DESK
FAN CONTROL NORMAL
LAMP PWER HIGH

EXT OPTION ( press OSD for 4 seconds to enter this mode )

FREEZE MSG OFF
PIC.SHIFT ON
RUNTIME PRT ON
FAN FULL MODE OFF
AUTO SETUP NORMAL
FLICKER ADJ
-DESK BLUE 25
-DESK RED 24
-DESK GREEN 24
525i LEVEL C
625I LEVEL C

With the projector now set up we will now have a closer look at it

VB
A massive improvement here tested with a number of movies including Star Wars Jurassic Park 3 ( the birdcage seine where there is a lot of fog etc ) Lord of the Rings. Boy I had to look hard to see it !! on the AE300 and 500 was very noticeable

LENS
This is also a huge improvement, the PT-AE700 has a manual zoom ( 1-20 ) Manual focus F1.9-3.1, f21.7mm-43.1mm this makes the 700 much more user friendly for set up etc. I tried the projector in many different distances from the screen and using the zoom found the picture quality was no different ( on the AE300/500 I found it was critical in where the projector was located otherwise it compromised the picture quality )

LENS SIFT FUNCTION
This is a great addition to the 700 and works a treat It is a manual adjustment that moves the whole lens up/down and left/right, I tried this function in many locations and settings and found no loss in picture quality what so ever. ( the manual does state maximum picture quality is obtained when the lens is moved to the center )
I carried out these tests using the cross hatch test pattern in service mode on the projector and Video Essentials disc.
The PT-AE700 also has keystone correction vertical only.

CONTRAST RATIO
The PT-AE700 has a massive 2000:1 contrast ratio using the new Dynamic Iris system in the Picture adjustment the Dynamic Iris can be turned on and off, a number of tests where done with this and all I can say is this would be one of the biggest draw cards with the 700, with the iris turned on the blacks are black and the whites are white it is very impressive. With the iris turned off the contrast ratio would be aprox the same as the PT-AE500 maybe slightly better.

LUMINOSITY
The PT-AE700 has a 1 000 lm using a 130w UHM lamp the picture is brighter than the AE300/500 and has a lot of punch to the image, with lights on full in the lounge the image still looked fine where as the AE300/500 would be struggling under the same conditions.

WSS MODE ( WIDE SCREEN SELECT )
This is another big improvement, on the PT-AE500 WSS was only available with S-Video and composite video, on the PT-AE700 WSS is obtainable on S-Video, composite video SCART and component video.

COLOUR MANAGEMENT
With this you can adjust, save and retrieve the settings of any selected colour within the image, the remote control becomes a cursor that you can set the colour, tint and brightness which can then be saved into a log and retrieved at any time, the idea for this is to say fine tune the skin tones without affecting any other colour. The colour management works very well and is a good tool for additional fine tuning.

CINEMA REALITY
The PT-AE700 has Cinema Reality mode ( S-video/video/PC/HDMI/525i (480i), 625i (576i), 1 125 (1 080)/60i and 1 125 (1 080)/50i YpbPr only )
ON : Set this to on changes to 24 frames per second to project the movie source faithfully.
I have tried this function and can not see any change in picture at this time so for the tests have turned it off.


CONCLUSION
I would have to say the Panasonic PT-AE700 is yet another big step forward and is getting closer to the perfect projector producing a stunning picture that is pleasing to the eye. For those of you who wonder if it is worth upgrading from the PT-AE500/300 in short yes it is the contrast ratio, VB and lens alone is worth the jump.
At a RRP of NZ$4995 this projector would rival any other projector under the $15000 mark.

Cheers

Mike

Guys, have one question about the AE700 everything is working fine and I am still very happy with the projector except for one small thing, now I am running a Panasonic HT900 home theatre system that can run interlace on PAL and Progressive/interlace on NTSC, now if I run Progressive scan on NTSC into the AE700 at component video, there is bad patterning on the image, the AE100/300/500 did not suffer from this, rang Panasonic NZ and they had not heard of the problem.
Could someone who owns a 700 and has a DVD player that can run progressive scan on NTSC check this would be very interested in the outcome.
Look forward to any replies

Mike

Mike what does the pattern look like?

Nice review.
How do I find the "cross hatch test pattern in service mode" on the projector ??? Didn't know it had one.

Hate ta say it but I think this thread is becoming frayed.

ted

bring up the option menu on the remote control
Highlight OSD
Hold down the enter button on the remote for 5 seconds or so and you'll be in the 'EXT OPTION' menu.

now select 'service mode'

there are various test patterns here...

press up/down to switch test pattern till you get to crosshatch...
press left and right to switch colors.

Dan K

After over 70 hours of watching DVD from an interlaced component feed, I've more or less settled with the following (basic setting setup using THX Optimiser found in THX DVDs, then eye-tweaked for the color temp & advanced color over a series of movies)

PICTURE MODE: NORMAL

CONTRAST 0
BRIGHT +2
COLOUR -11
TINT ( NTSC ) +5
SHARPNESS 0
COLOUR TEMP -1
DYNAMIC IRIS ON

ADVANCED MENU

GAMMA HIGH 0
GAMMA MID 0
GAMMA LOW +3
CONTRAST R 0
CONTRAST G -2
CONTRAST B -3
BRIGHT R 0
BRIGHT G -2
BRIGHT B -5

OPTION

QSD ON
NR OFF
CINEMA REALITY: ON
BACK COLOR: BLUE
WSS: ON
FRONT/REAR :FRONT
DESK/CEILING :CEILING
FAN CONTROL: NORMAL
LAMP PWER: LOW

My screen used is Screen-Goo painted with Digital Grey. Zoom at Max with max lens shift.

I've noticed that the zoom significantly affects the color temp & uniformity. Especailly when zoomed to the minimum picture size, the whole image takes on a pinkish cast, which slowly shifts towards one corner when zooming to bigger picturre size, until eventually it settles to a pinkish cast on one corner and a cyan cast on the opposite corner (related to lens coating problem?). I find this quite visible when watching B&W scenes (eg. Initial parts of Kill Bill Vol2) or low color contrast scene (eg. night & indoor scenes in Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within). Anyone else bothered with this uniformity issue? Is this normal for a Front Projector?

I do not know much about the gamma function for this projector. Does anyone have an idea if it can be used to improve black detail?

The gamma is linked to the Auto Iris functionality and would be changing with the screens APL - its the other link in the successful implementation of an Auto Iris function - without being dynamic the blacks would get mushy and the whites might clip. This is assuming you utilize auto. Calibration might be worthwhile as well as trying another gamma curve.

will delete if felt necessary,
ted

It Looks like combing artifacts ( pattening lines in the back ground ) very noticable !!

Mike

You're both using Normal as opposed to Natural? Are these completely light controlled environments? Screen type/gain? Size of screen?


Thanks,

Stew

Natural mode's contrast seem too low for me (picture is not "punchy" enough).

Video mode would give even higher brightness than Normal, but it has too much blue (will problably try it if I can get my hands on the correct filter to follow Cine4Home's tweak)

Dynamic mode is definitely a no-go for me as there appears to be additional sharpening that makes edge-enhancement artifacts more apparent.

With reference to my earlier post about the RGB settings, I just tried something last night..... instead of lowering the Blue & Green levels (to achieve a warmer picture), I kept Blue at 0, slightly increased Green, and ramped up Red to about +10 or so. I think this is helping to even out the pinkish corner uniformity issue as it appears now that the pinkish coloration has spread out further to cover more of the center area (but still not quite uniform enough though).

My next plan is to find a suitable filter to try Cine4Home's tweak.

Btw, my viewing environment has minimal~no ambient light source but with light coloured walls & flooring. Screen is a Goo Digital Grey painted MDF board (See attached file- unzip & view in browser if you don't have Flash player).

 

my_setup.zip 83.2685546875k . file

Hi TraderGordo,
I'm trying to use the Rage3d tweak instead of powerstrip, but when
I switch to 1280 x 720@60hz under the custom resolution tab , I only
get a blue screen from my projector (AE 700). I'm wondering if you can help
me out. Thanks a lot.

eme1

An good mode for sports is Cinema2. It is brighter than Natural but looks more "natural" than Normal. Tonight I am watching the Pats-Bills on ESPNHD and it looks awesome.