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Poor man's SDI - Page 8  

post #211 of 744
Quote:
Do we know what the data format for the Tivo is? I assume it is some "standard" 8 bit parallel signal. Is it, as we have seen in other non SMPTE complient devices BT.601?
If you do a search I think someone in the Tivo forums posted a discussion of this a few months back. The Tivo is tempting to me too but after having cracked open a modern DVD player and seeing how tiny the wires are these days I don't think I'll tackle it myself. But I love my modded RP56.

Has anybody tackled a digital cable box? I'm still waiting for Comcast to give me an HDTV version but once I get that it would be nice to get at least the low def stuff in SDI.

- Tom
post #212 of 744
Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry


Has anybody tackled a digital cable box? I'm still waiting for Comcast to give me an HDTV version but once I get that it would be nice to get at least the low def stuff in SDI.

- Tom
I have to wonder if it would make any difference, given that the quality of the low-def channels is determined almost 100% by compression artifacts. The component analog output of my DTC100 looks terrific when it's passing high definition material, so I can't possibly imagine that it's constraining the quality of the standard definition material.
post #213 of 744
Robert -

Sadly you are probably correct. But though folks grump here about the low quality of digital cable it was still better on many channels a couple years ago when I switched to that from DirectTV. And that from a digital cable box with only composite output, recently pumped through DScaler. The funny thing was when they put in my digital cable box my analog cable reception improved immensely, even bypassing that box to my Tivo.

But even more sadly, the quality of high-def cable will also be determined by compression artifacts. But I am optimistic it should still look good for awhile. And with luck maybe they can even add bits faster than channels. ;)

- Tom
post #214 of 744
Ok,

I have opened up my rp56. I'm looking at this and it seems like I want to pick up the video data off of the ADV7199KS inputs. Is this right? How come I can find no info on this chip. Does anyone have the pin configuration for this chip? I can't find anything on Analog Devices web site.

Thanks
Matt
post #215 of 744
Quote:
Originally posted by bonfigleo
Ok,

I have opened up my rp56. I'm looking at this and it seems like I want to pick up the video data off of the ADV7199KS inputs. Is this right? How come I can find no info on this chip. Does anyone have the pin configuration for this chip? I can't find anything on Analog Devices web site.

Thanks
Matt
I tapped mine off the input to the SAGE chip.

SAGE Pin#
6- D0 (tied to ground)
7- D1 (tied to ground)
8- D2
9- D3
10- D4
11- D5
12- D6
13- D7
14- D8
15- D9
40- 27mhz Clock

D2 thru D9 is 8bit CCIR 656. EAV and SAV embedded

While you could connect D0 and D1 from the SAGE chip to the National board, do yourself a favor and just ground D0 and D1 on the National board. It's bad enough soldering 9 wires to a 25mil QPFP!
post #216 of 744
TIVO SDI Update:

The data format is CCIR601 which is missing EAV/SAV. Options I am investigating:

1) Discrete 74HC board, will post schematic if done.
2) Xilinx, again will post bit file if done.
3) I found a Sony chip that does everything we need. In fact several other manufactures buy this chip from Sony to save time.

Will post more as I go.
post #217 of 744
Mounting question,

Who's using the bnc connectors to mount the evk board? Anyone having any problems with this approach? I believe Glimmie said he was not doing this.

What size are these nuts? Where'd you pick them up?

I'm compiling this info for the howto. I would also like to be able to provide the names of stores and part numbers for things like the various mounting techniques and the ribon cables so if anyone has any sugestions for these, please let me know.

Thanks,
Matt
post #218 of 744
Quote:
Originally posted by bonfigleo
Mounting question,

Who's using the bnc connectors to mount the evk board? Anyone having any problems with this approach? I believe Glimmie said he was not doing this.

What size are these nuts? Where'd you pick them up?

I'm compiling this info for the howto. I would also like to be able to provide the names of stores and part numbers for things like the various mounting techniques and the ribon cables so if anyone has any sugestions for these, please let me know.

Thanks,
Matt
I am using the BNC connectors to hold the National board. And I just replaced them last night with better ones (AMP). Mine had a broken ground post but I have removed the board several times to play with the Tivo which probably did it. As for nuts, try some 1/2in toggle switches. They may be the same.

What you need to be careful of here is lead length. The terminator resistor packs would fix that but load the 656 buss too much. I had to add a 10pf cap to the clock line at the National board. You really need a decent scope to check this problem.

A sloppier, but electrically superior connection may be to attach wire-wrap wires to the SAGE chip and run them taught to the National board. This should be OK. I ran wire-wrap to a header on a perfboard mounted on spacers above the RP56 video board. Then I have a 5inch ribbon cable to the National board. That's about 10inches total run of poorly impedance controlled wiring. The more direct, the better.
post #219 of 744
I understand what you are doing now. I thought you had skipped the ribon cable entirely and just run the wire-wrap wires. What additional benifit were you going for? Just trying to avoid pulling apart and directly soldering the ribbon cable?

I don't see any need to use the ribon cable at all. I got an extra evk board for use in breaking my Tivo so I'm sort of thinking of the rp56 as a permanent installation. I'm deffinately going to try and get this working with the shortest wires possible. If that eliminates the need for the cap then its extra cool.

Matt
post #220 of 744
Ok, do anyone have an exact link to where a SD020EVK board can be purchased? avnet.com seems like they don't do online business.
post #221 of 744
Go to this link:

http://www.avnet.com/em/en/ctry/home...ID%3D1,00.html

In the search for field put in SD020EVK. Only one this should come up. Click on the "Order" button.

If you have a digital camera and wouldn't mind taking some pictures I would love to add them to my growing faq. Also if you come up with any tips or suggestions relevent to the particular player you are modding I would also appreciate that. I'm working on a website but I will only have info on the rp56 for starters and since I have very little idea what I'm doing, I might not get everything exactly right.

If you are working with somethat that has a BT.601 data format you might try the SD021-5EVK. The national documents about this clc021 chip state:

Parallel data may conform to any of several standards:
SMPTE 125M, SMPTE 267M, SMPTE 244M or
ITU-R BT.601.

Way smarter guys than me have looked at this issue and this device doesn't seem to have been used as a solution yet so it probably isn't one but it looks like it might be interesting for someone to try.

Thanks,
Matt
post #222 of 744
OT: I might purchase a scope. (Have allways wanted one). What frequencies must it handle to cover all video related hacking? I assume 60MHz would suffice?

I have some dxr3 cards lying around, so I would try to hack sdi output from one of them.
post #223 of 744
I am not the best soldering type person, but a buddy and I installed the SDO21-3EVK in my Denon 3300 dvd player, and it works like a champ. Used a 6 inch piece of old ribbon cable from a hard drive, mounted it using the BNC connector. The hardest part was nailing those points on the surface mount (my buddy handled that).
post #224 of 744
Is there anyone who has a leftover kit who is willing to sell me one? I can pay with paypal.
post #225 of 744
Got my SDI Silk card today. I hooked up the Tivo to it via s-video just to check and see if the drivers were all installed correctly. Let me just say that DScaler blows away the processor in both the projector (PLV-60HT) and in the VB50. It is not even close.

My wife's response was simply "Wow". Can't wait to get the SDI in the tivo and see what it looks like. For now, I'm probably going to try to mod my rp56 in the next couple of days. I'll get a web site up with pictures and specific instructions if I can figure it out. :)

Later,
Matt
post #226 of 744
Where is everyone stealing power and ground from on the RP56? Can I just grab these from the Sage chip? Is there a differnt chip that we have documentation on with larger connectors?

Thanks,
Matt
post #227 of 744
Quote:
Originally posted by bonfigleo
Where is everyone stealing power and ground from on the RP56? Can I just grab these from the Sage chip? Is there a differnt chip that we have documentation on with larger connectors?

Thanks,
Matt
On the main board right hand side looking from the back, there quite a few bare jumper wires around the low voltage side of the power supply (towards the front of the unit). Poke around there with your DVM and find the switched +5. Also find a ground by comparing against the ring of an RCA connector. This is much easier and cleaner electrically then getting it from the video board.

If you can wait until 10pm pacific time, I will get you the exact jumper number I used off the PC board.
post #228 of 744
I understand what you guys are trying to do, but doesn't a HTPC do all its conversions in the digital domain ? What is the point of modifying a stand-alone DVD player when the raw MPEG stream is readily available on a PC with a DVD-ROM drive?
post #229 of 744
Quote:
Originally posted by fredzy
I understand what you guys are trying to do, but doesn't a HTPC do all its conversions in the digital domain ? What is the point of modifying a stand-alone DVD player when the raw MPEG stream is readily available on a PC with a DVD-ROM drive?
Do some searches. This has been argued at legnth. There are issues with software DVD players.
post #230 of 744
Ok, so don't just sit down in front of the television with a beer and think you can pull this off in a couple of seconds. :)

You'll end up like me, with a player that no longer outputs a progressive signal.

Glimmie, I would like to know exactly where you have tacked down your ground and power.

I think I'm going to go to bed now. Assuming I can fix whatever I broke tomorrow, I'll give it another go then.

Later,
Matt
post #231 of 744
I got my dvd player working again. . . YEAH!!!

I haven't made a second run at the mod yet but I have gotten the beginings of the website up. There isn't really much there yet but take a look.

http://diysdi.bonfigleo.com

Matt
post #232 of 744
I have gotten the 9 wires soldered onto the RP56 board and the DVD player still functions. :) I have added that to my website.

I would love to hear from anyone that has any feedback thus far.

Glimmie, any thing that I've missed so far. I would still be interested in the locations of your power and ground connections. I'm hoping to wrap this up tonight or tomorrow.

I have a Dennon DVD3300 comming tommorrow. My plan now is that if I don't break the RP56 then I will attempt to modify the DVD3300. If I break the RP56 I toss it and just use the DVD3300 as my dvd player unmodified.

Does anyone have any info on this unit? Where do I steal the signal from? For the previous info in these posts it seems this unit should be just as easy to do as the RP56.

Thanks,
Matt
post #233 of 744
Quote:
I understand what you guys are trying to do, but doesn't a HTPC do all its conversions in the digital domain ? What is the point of modifying a stand-alone DVD player when the raw MPEG stream is readily available on a PC with a DVD-ROM drive?
Many of the software DVD players do a very excellent job of handling movies with film source materials. But they are written for target machines where it is not certain they will also be able to use very much CPU power to do a good job of deinterlacing material from video source. This may change in the future but currently limits how well many of them can deinterlace.

But, using my SDI/Silk card and modified RP56, DScaler does not have to compete for the CPU in MPEG2 decode and can dedicate more resources toward other video processing. This helps the CPU and digital SDI helps get around the possible noise problem.

For instance the following is a screen capture from the Video Essentials famous flag scene in the "Video Montage" chapter, using the next version of DScaler:

http://www.trbarry.com/DScaler_VE_Flag.jpg

I don't think most of the software players can quite do this yet.

- Tom
post #234 of 744
Quote:
Originally posted by bonfigleo
Glimmie, any thing that I've missed so far. I would still be interested in the locations of your power and ground connections. I'm hoping to wrap this up tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks,
Matt
Sorry for the delay, I promissed it yesterday.

SWITCHED +5v W502 Located on the right side of the DVD transport looking from the back.

GND W019 Located next to the S Video jack bracket.
post #235 of 744
I finished my mod by tacking down the ground and the 5v to the connections that Glimmie recommended. Unfortunately, it does not seem to be working. The progressive output from the dvd as well as the rest of the analog outputs are working. This leads me to believe that I have not shorted anything.

I'm hoping that I just did something stupid. Maybe someone can recognize my error from the attached pics.

Thanks,
Matt

Here is my output from DScaler:
LL
post #236 of 744
Here is my evk card. You can see that I just jumps the d0 and d1 pins to the ground. The rest are hooked up to pins 8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,and 40 on the Sage chip.

Thanks,
Matt
LL
post #237 of 744
Hmmm... Three things to do.

1) Cold reboot both the DVD player and HTPC.

2) Download and install the latest WDM driver...

http://www.sdisilk.com/support/btwdm3.zip

3) Download and install the latest DScaler-SDI

http://www.sdisilk.com/support/DScaler310-SDI-exe.zip
post #238 of 744
Ok,

I'll admit, I thought you were completely high. Reinstalling the driver has definately changed things. I now can make out a picture. Just not a very good one. I think I'm going to have to pull this back apart and resolder all of my connections on the Sage chip. I hate myself for not getting it right.

Matt

New results:
LL
post #239 of 744
I took it back apart and everything looked good. I started poking around a bit and found that the wire on pin 12 of the sage chip looked like a crappy solder connection. I redid that and everything works.

Got the DVD-3300 today and it doesn't work at all so I'll have to wait a bit on that one.

Thank you everyone for all of your help. I'll be putting up the rest of the proceedure on my website tonight. This is soooo exciting. Maybe I'll even watch a movie. :)

Thanks,
Matt
post #240 of 744
I'm in the process of creating a pcb for the clc021 serializer. Last sunday i downloaded the pcb layout program PROTEL 99 SE and got to work
I have created a small pcb, 1"x2", 4 layers (i know, sounds expensive, but i found a site with online caculator and the costs where acceptable) for better RF properties. Look at the picture for a rendered 3d pcb (very nice option of PROTEL)
I looked at the schematic of the SD021EVK board and removed a lot of stuff, maybe to much and hardwired the configurations pins;

1) NRZ to NRZI conversion, by grounding pin 2 (NRZ-NRZI)
2) disabled EDH option, by grounding pin 8 (EDH force) and pull up pin 9 (EDH enable)
3) enabled SMTPE, by grounding pin 10 (SMTPE mode)
4) grounded D0 and D1 (pins 12 and 13)
5) disabled TPG, by grounding pin 29 (TPG enable)
6) not connecting -SDO, but terminating it with 75ohm (pin 39)
7) enabled Sync detect, by grounding pin 41 (Sync detect enable)

Please let me know if i took the wrong decisions

I now waiting on a quote for making the pcb

Roberto
LL
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