SVS PB12 - Plus vs Velodyne SPL-1200 II  

"most woofage"? You been reading some of the other threads here? ;)

IMO, based on those descriptions, the SVS is the better sub. By having a larger box, the sub requires less power to drive to the same volume. And the SVS is ported, so it has a volume advantage there too. The SVS WILL be the louder subwoofer. SVS has great extension and will almost certainly be the best choice for your HT. I have not heard the Velodyne, but again, based on those descriptions I would purchase the SVS. (Which I did, I have the PB12 in my HT.)

If you don't need the sub to be small, then don't look for a small sub...the high power of the Velo amplifier is to overcome small box size...if your into Ht and don't care as much about musicallity then go SVS.

I have it about 4 feet from the front right corner, against the right wall. It sounds great there.

I have both the SVS and a Velo, while both are great, I would suggest going with the SVS.

Gosh help me, I'm starting to appreciate NightRain. Is SVS the *only* solution to every application?

What's this "musicality" that the SVS lacks?

Probably not. Informed, experienced, well-founded disagreements are as enjoyable as they are rare. The case for the Velodyne awaits a spokesperson...

There are several subs that would fit the bill but I can't think of any under $1200 other than the PB12, anyone else?

HSU VTF3 would...do they still have the wood finish version avail?

One thing is troubling about your request....that you are consideing both :) If you have room and don't mind having a larger sub, there isn't much need for the SPL1000. It is a great sub for the small size it requires but you might as well get something that isn't forced to duke it out with physics!!

Sure...the Hsu VTF-3RMK2. Rosewood finish, flat to 18hz. There is suppose to be a maple finish available soon as well.
http://www.hsustore.com/vtf3.html

The ACI Titan is also a viable option:
http://audioc.com/speakers1/titan/titan.htm

Or two $600 subs. There are several arguments for preferring two subs over one.

mgamon....you are in Northridge, and Hsu is in Anaheim....you can make an appointment and see/listen to all they have.

On the ACI...you have plenty of finish options.

well some of your decision should be made based on available location and how well that spot performs for you.

what if the only place the SVS fits has a horrible response curve in your room? but the velo can be placed in an optimal spot.....it doesn't matter if the svs is the best sub in the world then does it :)

when forced with less than optimal placement options, I try to aim for as flat as possible with only one large peak or a coupe peaks...then use a param eq to remove it.

The PB12-plus/2 doesn't come in wood finish, only black. The PB12-ultra/2 comes in wood, for $2399.

Performance-wise, 2 of the velo 1200's wouldn't match the PB12-plus/2. If you need wood finish get the HSU vtf-3 for $899. It won't even come close to the PB12-plus/2 but it will look nice and be easy to move around and position.

In terms of shear output, that is correct, but in terms of sound quality, that is a different ball game. Performance isn't all about output.

His room is small enough that the VTF-3 will have PLENTY of headroom.

I am getting ready at this very minute to call SVS and order the PB12 Ultra/2. I was going to get the PB12 Plus/2 but I just received a $4,000 check that I have been waiting for about 6 months, so I have received permission from the Wife Factor, my most Significant Other, it's like getting a blessing from the Pope, to buy the Ultra/2. I can't wait to get it. I toyed around with getting the B12-Plus/4 but I think it would be overkill. So I have an 18 X 16 foot room opening to a kitchen which is a little larger than my Den so I think the Ultra/2 should suffice. It also has PEQ which helps to make adjustments for room acoustics deficiencies. So Max go for the Plus/2. From what I hear you will love it. I have had several people PM me about their Plus/2 and Ultra/2 and they have all been very positive in their experiences with those 2 subs and the people at SVS. Good Luck.

Maybe in your opinion. Edward J M on HTF preferred the PB2+ to dual VTF-3's. Personally I call 1 vtf-3 not even close to "plenty of headroom". I have a 20-39cs and a 16-46cs+ in a 10x12x8 room and I can still bring them to their knees on some material. Output (for HT) is half of performance. If a sub can't put out the SPL's from 15-25hz then who cares how good the sound quality is?


Plasmaniac-

Good choice in my opinion. The B4 has a big edge in SPL but the Ultra drivers sound significantly better than the ISD and Plus drivers. I've heard all 3 in several setups and the Ultras are much better. In the 20hz tune you will be hitting some intense SPL's at low distortion (think 115db+ @20hz at your seat). You will love it for music too, great pitch definition and extension.

Edward never tested VTF-3's as far as I know. I know Craig did...but he also got rid of his PB2+ in favor of somethingelse.

I have a VTF-3 in a 14x18x9 room...and can't come close to killing it. I have also directly compared it to a 20-39PC+ and PB12+.....can't kill those in my room either. Maybe there is an issue with your cs and cs+.

If a sub doesn't have good sound quality, who cares how low it can go?

Yes...we have different opinions, I will take sound quality over SPL.

Well, they go together so we can do the tit for tat all day.

What is your definition of headroom? A vtf-3 can do about 105db @20hz. That's 0 headroom even if you always listen at -10 of reference.

My definition of "plenty of headroom" is a sub that can do 120db at 20hz. That way when it hits 115db the distortion is nice and low, not tainted with harmonics. The only problem here is your concept of what is plenty.

As far as sound quality goes, anyone with good hearing (and sense), will agree that the similarly priced SVS and HSU subs sound more alike than different.

Each has certain advantages that will appeal to each buyer. Anyone that says one is much better than the other isn't worth listening to.

Well, I just ordered the PB12 Ultra/2 and it should be here by Monday. I will set it up on the Auralex SubDude which really helped reduce vibrations with my RSW-15 so we will see what effects it will have on the Ultra. I will have to spend a couple of days calibrating it but I can't wait to play with the PEQ. Has anybody used the PEQ to help calibrate their sub? I guess you can set it to make up for room deficiencies at various Hz levels according to the downloaded manual from SVS. I need to buy some DVDs to test it with. They have a ton of them that they recommend.

OK...that's fair Jesse. So, in your eyes, a sub that can not do 120dB at 20hz is not good enough? The reason I ask is because according to Edward's test, the PB2-Ultra can't even do it.

I am in total agreement with that.....but isn't that what you were saying?

Edward J M measured 20 Hz: 102.8 dB (9.4% THD amp limited) 2m distance groundplane. Inside that's going to increase about 13-18db with boundary and room gain. I would call 116-120 sufficient "headroom" for most.

1 vtf-3 does ~105db @20hz. "Headroom" is having a 6'6 person in a car without touching the roof. 105db is a car that's only high enough for a 5'6 person :)

I never said SVS was much better than HSU. Nightrain is the one bandying that nonsense about. I also think SVS and HSU are both superior to Paradigm and that burns him up to no end :D

Forget these wimpy internet subs..go for the He-Man Velodyne:D !!

I see Jesse....but I can't find that number from Edward, and where are you getting that number for the Hsu? Is the Hsu number in room?

Same question as before....if it can not hit 115dB at 20hz in room...it is not good enough for you or most people?

Your post earlier said "it won't even come close". Doesn't imply the opposite of what Nightrain states, and that one is "much better" than the other?

It could arrive sooner than you think.:)

I ordered on Sunday and BAX attempted delivery tonight. I didn't hear the doorbell because the AVM-30 I ordered three weeks ago was delivered today. How was I supposed to keep the volume low on the first night???

I'm out of luck until Friday.

Wimpy internet subs huh? Here's a quote from you which says something different.:)

All of the above are nice subs huh????? :D :D

Just messing with you...