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Pan TH-42PHD7UY Black level changing - Page 5  

post #121 of 449
Posted in the problems sticky, but figured I'd get more input as a seperate thread as most see the problem only in the 427UY.

I have a 507UY that I have been enjoying very much for the last 4 months. HD Tivo quality is superb as is DVD. However, I put my DVE dvd back in and wanted to calbirate again. I changed my gamma to 2.2 and color temp to warm and AGC is off.

And when putting up the grey and black bar for adjusting picture settings, as I change the setting it alternates the screen brighter, and darker. For example -9 looks perfect, -8 the entire screen is brighter, but -7 it gets darker again and looks perfect, -6 brighter, -5 darker, -4 brighter, -3 darker.
I have it set at -9 which looks like the point where -10 doesn't make it brighter.

Anyway, am I being paranoid or is this a defect?
post #122 of 449
gadgetfreaky,

From what I've read on this forum this happens with almost every Panasonic plasma and is not considered a defect just an bug. You can get the picture brightness that you are after it just take a little experimenting.
Hope This Helps.
post #123 of 449
Hey blazmaster i just bought one right before Christmas and for a week now i have not seen the shift in black. I have the PWD7UY. i can tell you the PQ is amazing. i did not get the mfg date on the back but i will when i purchase the lock for the plasma. thx
post #124 of 449
isn't that what it suppose to do when you change any of the picture settings? The overall contrast and black levels will change as you change any of the settings.....
post #125 of 449
There are 3 or 4 problems I think:

1. Blooming - Whites bloom on the S-Video input. Seems to be a 4UY problem.

2. Uneven Black Levels - The black level is not even throughout the picture. The picture is darker in the middle. Related to the S-Video on all inputs.

3. Black Levels on the top and bottom of the screen change with the picture being displayed. Maybe the same as 2. Really bad on the S-Video, very mild if present at all on other input. It seems to be related to the amount of noise in the picture.

4. Adjusting the contrast increases the black level randomly. The black levels at 9 are brighter than 8, but 10 is much darker. 11 is lighter again. Controls should be linear and predictable.

-- Rich
post #126 of 449
Thread Starter 
I have just received my HDMI blade and can confirm that the black level change occurs on all inputs- HDMI, Component, S-video, Composite. In review the current issue I am dealing with on my TH-42PHD7UY:

Black levels changing constantly as scene content changes.
It happens on all inputs- S-Video, HDMI, Component, Composite.
It happens on all sources- HD OTA Broadcast, DVD, SD DirecTivo, SD DirecTv.
It does not happen with any of these sources on a Toshiba Rear Projection TV or standard CRT TV with same input sources.

Visual Apex has stopped responding to any emails, not good!
Panasonic has not confirmed that this is a defect or that this is even a problem they are looking into!
This problem seems to effect HD7UY the most
This problem is unrelated to the WD7UY Banding and Halo problem.

I am going to call Visual Apex today to see what the latest story is.
I do not feel comfortable with the service/response from Visual Apex.

I would suggest holding off on any 7UY Panasonic Plasma purchase and holding off from any purchase from Visual Apex.

Jim
post #127 of 449
Jim,
Did you try the PC VGA in port with any content on your 42hd7uy.
Curious what your build date is.

I will try this tonight when I get home with a notebook playing a dvd video.
My 42HD7UY build date is Oct 2004.

I am trying to nail down this issue with my setup as I don't see this effect all the time.
post #128 of 449
Thread Starter 
exrace

I don't really plan on using the VGA port at all. In this case it would not be a good test for me.

My build date is September 2004 Made in Japan.

Jim
post #129 of 449
Problems 1-3 that RichB describes are all manifestations of the same s-video/composite uneven brightness problem. The changing brightness problem (decribed by Jim / jadolley) is different than any of those as it covers the entire picture evenly, occurs on any input (including VGA, which is just another entry into the component input) and only occurs on the 42PHD.

I think the change in brightness when adjusting contrast is a defect too. It does appear to happen on all models. Of all the three issues we're discussing it is the least worrisome and easiest to work around.

Jim, in conversations I've had with both Visual Apex and Panasonic they have confirmed that the changing brightness on the 42PHD is a problem that they are looking into.
post #130 of 449
Good news.
Does anyone have any issue reference numbers from panny?

I would like to report my issues and would be good to refer to another known issue on the same display so I don't get the run around with a dealer or with panny themsleves.
post #131 of 449
Has anyone heard anything from VA or Panasonic on the brightness or s-video issues?
post #132 of 449
Thread Starter 
All

In my call to Visual Apex I have learned several things:

Panasonic is looking at the WD7UY S-Video problem first.
Panasonic has determined that there is a problem with the WD7UY S-Video blade.
Panasonic has not "officially" stated that this is a problem on the WD7UY.
Visual Apex does have some modified S-Video blades for the WD7UY that help in the glowing problem.
Panasonic may only replace those blades in the units of customer who "complain".
Panasonic may never make this defect an "official" one.

That being said about the WD7UY units, now what I found out about the HD7UY defect.

Panasonic will look at this problem after the WD7UY problem is "resolved".
There is no time line for the resolution of the WD7UY problem.
Panasonic has stated they know about the brightness issue, and will "look into" the problem.
Visual Apex is waiting for word from Panasonic about the "status" of the HD7UY units.
Visual Apex will not do anything in the way of a return until they get word from Panasonic.
Panasonic may never "officially" do anything about this defect and everyone will be stuck with these defective units.

In talking to an East Coast Panasonic Pro technician, he said that Panasonic was shipping every Plasma unit they could, irregardless of quality....

I am not happy about the resolution of my HD7UY problems. but I guess I will have to wait and hope!

I would suggest not buying any Panasonic Plasma until these defects are "officially" resolved.

Jim


[NOTE: IT IS NOT VA OR ANY OTHER VENDORS RESPONSIBLITY FOR THIS ISSUE- IT IS SOLELY A PANASONIC ISSUE]
post #133 of 449
This is almost a worst case scenario for us as consumers... Panasonic Plasma's have been heralded on this forum, and with good reason for years... no doubt we are indirectly responsible for their amazing sales... but now they have dropped the ball. The problem is, their WD's selling for less than $2000 on average is bringing in a whole new level of customers that weren't willing to buy before, and frankly, AVSForums might be powerless to stop them at this point. We can only hope that the powers that be at Panasonic will correct this issue, at the very least in their next line of panels, merely because it's the RIGHT THING TO DO. No doubts they are afraid to announce or recogonize the issues at the moment because of the damage it could do to their sales.

Fascinating. I for one was planning a 42WUD purchase will probably buy the NEC model now.

Good luck guys,
Dreamaster
post #134 of 449
I have the 50HD7UY and have NONE of these reported problems. I also have the 42PWD4UY and must say that after a couple of months, the 7UY is an upgrade in PQ across the whole spectrum. Hopefully all of these issues will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.
post #135 of 449
I am holding off on my 50PHD7UY purchase until I see that everyone here is completely tickled with their Panny units. I can wait.
post #136 of 449
Cheridave, I'm just curious why you said this, and if it is true what is the reason for it being true "[NOTE: IT IS NOT VA OR ANY OTHER VENDORS RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS ISSUE- IT IS SOLELY A PANASONIC ISSUE]
Last edited by cheridave on Today at 09:10 AM"

So I am just curious why the vendors/dealers do not have any responsibility regarding this issue. So basically it seems that what you're saying is that a dealer could knowingly sell products that do not work to consumers with out any repercussions and without any responsibility to those consumers to give them what they paid for.

I, personally find this hard to be true. I do not know the answer to this but I would think that the dealer has to have some responsibility when it comes to the products which they sell. I would think that Visual Apex is making money off these sales to us the consumer and would therefor have some part in making sure that what the customer receives is in perfect working condition. If not then any dealer like I stated above would be able to make money by purposely selling defective merchandise to buyers. In my opinion Visual Apex and other dealers, are currently doing that now. Since I was one of the first to buy this unit, it is understandable that they didn't know that there is a problem, but now that it is quite clear to them that there are multiple problems with these units, to continue to sell these units to the mostly unsuspecting public in my opinion is a very bad way of doing business. Right now they are knowingly selling defective units to the consumers. I believe that the consumer has to have more rights when in comes to getting a perfect working new product like they paid for. This week I'll be sure to ask my friend who's a lawyer about this, and about the legal implications that could possibly be involved with this process, because legally I find it hard that they can be doing this, especially if Panasonic does not replace, or fix everyone of the defective units free of cost.
post #137 of 449
rlshky,

Please don't put words in my mouth. Panasonic is the manufacture of these PDPs, VA or any other vendor is the seller. I do not know what the return policies are for the various vendors. But in almost all cases the warranty is with Panasonic and again not with the vendors. I think, based on the post above, that this is going to be a case by case basis with Panasonic. It appears that Panasonic is going the same route that they did with the "Shut Down Issue", i.e. they know its there but never acknowledged it publicly.

Now I also don't know what kind of deals people made with the various vendors about defective units or 14, 15 or 30 day satisfaction guarantees.

Also remember that some Panasonic Plasmas have this issue and some do not (as reported here on this Forum), so your comment about VA and other vendors are knowingly selling defective plasmas maybe a little premature.

Now I do agree that if a consumer has purchased a Panasonic Plasma that has demonstrated this issue then the vendor should work with the customer to either replace the unit or refund their money.

Thats all I was trying to point out.

Good luck.

Dave
post #138 of 449
Not having any black level or PIC/Brightness adjustment issues on my 42 built in August '04 == using DVI blade with Hughes HD Receiver and component on Denon DVD-3800. Do not use S-Vid so may be avoiding the issue(s)...
post #139 of 449
Have any of the HD-7UY owners NOT experienced the black level changing problem?

VA told me that a small minority has experienced the problem (which I didn't believe because I felt they were just trying to sell me one).
post #140 of 449
no, I don't think VA is purposely selling these Panny PDPs knowing that all units are defective. In fact, I emailed them a couple of days ago, showing interest in either their HD or ED 7UY in 42 in. and I told them that I'm aware of the PQ issues that people are having on AVS forum. I also told him that I'm following this thread closely, he told me to hold off and purchases on Panny PDPs until someone on this thread got the PQ issues resolved. But who knows how long this will take, I think VA also has a confusing Return Policy statement, saying that all refund products will have a 25% restocking fee and here's a quote from that section "Within 30 days of purchase, and after a brief technical consultation with the sales/technical support representative, Visual Apex will replace any defective Panasonic Professional plasma display or projector." I guess this is a reassurance to new and potential buyers like me. But it makes me think how many times will they replace it, due to the number of Panny owners that are complaining about the PQ.
What should I do? I really want a HD42 Panny and I won't be using the S-Video input, just component or DVI/HDMI, is it safe for me to order one? Also regarding the press release about the newer generations coming out, should I wait a couple months and see how those perform? I can wait 'til March or April if I really have to.
post #141 of 449
BlazeMaster,

As a one time 42PHD owner I think you should wait. Since you know about the problem it is likely to be irritating to you.

The problem is specific to that display model (and not just a small component like the s-video blade) so who knows what it will take to fix it. Perhaps some non-user serviceable component in the display itself is the source of the issue. Since it is a commercial model you'd have to bring the whole display to a shop and wait for it to get fixed. But perhaps it will be a simple service menu fix. If you can wait a couple of months you may save yourself some trouble. My $.02.
post #142 of 449
Thanks Steve, you're right I guess waiting would be the wise thing to do. But the thought of having a plasma is something that I couldn't even dream of couple of years back, just a little anxious to get it, know what I mean?
What do you guys think the newer generations will do to the current prices that we see on internet authorized dealers like VA for the 42HD7UY? Will it drop it below $3K? I'd definitly wait, if it'll be cheaper.
post #143 of 449
I hear you on wanting to buy one and get it done with. I now have a 50PHD and I'm very happy with it.

I don't know that the new generation will do anything to the price per se, but it seems that there is some "interesting" price drop at least every 5-6 months, and the 7UY series has been stable on price for about 2 months now. I'd expect some drop by March or April. Perhaps a price drop should be your trigger point.
post #144 of 449
Thread Starter 
Blaze Master

The catch-22 I am in is that if Panasonic never declares this an "official" defect, it can't be returned. In the past and currently Panasonic has several verifiable defects that remain "unofficial". The shutdown issue seems to have been properly addressed in the past, so I would wait and see how the WD7UY S-video and the HD7UY black levels are handled. I hope it can be resolved, but it does seem to take time.

Jim
post #145 of 449
What if everyone on this forum who has a problem calls Panasonic and asks for their unit to be repaired? They are warranted to be free of defects, so why don't we have their service departments fix them? It will at least give their service people some business. I may call this week and see what the procedures are for getting this problem fixed.
post #146 of 449
The point seems to be: If there is a fault with these panels and I believe nearly everyone agrees there is then, from this point on, it is fair and right, the seller of these panels should sell them with a warning: stating to potential buyer he 'could' have a problem with the display he will be buying'. To say nothing is not right in my opinion. What do you think? Should a seller continue to sell a product (when they may well be a problem) and say nothing to the potential buyer?
post #147 of 449
Remember, if you bought a display lately with a Credit Card, it is a good possibility you can go to Card Company with a complaint your product is not working probably. I did this some years ago and they went to bat for me.
post #148 of 449
Thread Starter 
All

No word from Visual Apex, or Panasonic.
Visual Apex has stopped all responses to email.

I will call again on Monday.

Unit still strobing blacks badly, is currently unwatchable.

Jim
post #149 of 449
I wonder if any A/V magazines have reviewed the Panasonics lately? Wouldn't they report this issue in a very public way?
post #150 of 449
Like I (and others) have suggested several times, contest your credit card. This is the loudest message you can send to the vendor to work with Panasonic to get a solution. The credit card companies always stand behind their customers.

The vendor is the point of sale where money is being exchanged. They are responsible for rectifying a defective product even if they can do nothing but arrange for a no-cost return. It is not acceptable to just pass the buck to Panasonic with out giving you an option to return your unit at no charge.

Contesting your credit card takes less than 5 minutes, costs you nothing, and will protect you if Panasonic doesn't fix the problem and the vendor won't let you return it.

With an internal problem like the brightness fluctuations in this post, I would strongly suggest everyone contest their credit card and keep all interactions with the vendor and Panasonic in writing (email).

My 2K cents...

John
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