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Calling all Marquee Geometry Guru's!!  

post #1 of 68
12/1/04 at 5:51pm
Thread Starter 
Fellas I need your help!

I know some will ask "why do you want to do that" but if I could just ask you to help out on this thread and if you have any questions as to why, you can refer to this thread for history:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...85#post4743585


OKAY, THE QUESTION IS.....

What is the best way to get the raster on my '96 refurbed Marquee 9000 projector to be smaller (vertically) than the typical 16:9 raster with anamorphic mod?

When I had it setup for 16:9, the pic size controls were at 100 width and 17 height. This looked perfect. BUT for my new project, even settin the height to "0" it is still TOO TALL.

Are there any tricks to get it to be smaller, height-wise? I know I can use the service convergence to get it smaller but are there any OTHER tricks?

And yes, I suffer from the center banding line when using too much service convergence. :(

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post #2 of 68
12/1/04 at 6:55pm
Never mind.
post #3 of 68
12/1/04 at 7:34pm
Thread Starter 
Jim, please edit your post, as while I appreciate the response, it has nothing to do with this thread and will just skew the topic. I'll respond in my other thread. Thanks :)
post #4 of 68
12/2/04 at 1:30am
Thread Starter 
Well crap, it gets more frustrating.

I set picture size to 100/0 and then used service convergence to try and get the raster to have a smaller height but not only could I not get all the way there but what I did manage had banding.

Is there NO WAY to alter this projector either mechanically, electrically or otherwise to create a 2.35:1 height raster?

My project is dead in the water unless I can get the height small enough. I could live with a "too tall" raster for my HTPC DVD viewings but then I'm screwed for watching HD on my dish receiver.
post #5 of 68
12/2/04 at 1:36am
Thread Starter 
Forgive me, for I just visited the under $3500 forum to see what's new. I had the words "Anamorphic lens" and "LCD" cross my mind at the same time and I confess, I peeked into that forum.

Please save me before I stray too far! :o
post #6 of 68
12/2/04 at 2:50am
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie

Is there NO WAY to alter this projector either mechanically, electrically or otherwise to create a 2.35:1 height raster?
Hey, this is so strange. I too found the anamophic mod to be inadequate. I even have a vertical board somewhere in my shop (before the move), that I've made some changes on to improve on this.

I've mentioned this mod in the past, but never got back around to perfecting it. However, I did get it better than what we have now, but would need to do more, especially to make sure the failsafe circuit still does its job after the changes. OH yeah, you'll need to change a lot more than three resistors (I think I changed six so far).

I'll look for that module the next time I'm at my shop at the house.
post #7 of 68
12/2/04 at 4:53am
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie
Jim, please edit your post, as while I appreciate the response, it has nothing to do with this thread and will just skew the topic. I'll respond in my other thread. Thanks :)
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie
What is the best way to get the raster on my '96 refurbed Marquee 9000 projector to be smaller (vertically) than the typical 16:9 raster with anamorphic mod?
I thought my suggestion on how to change the image size was relevant but I guess not.

Good luck.
post #8 of 68
12/2/04 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie


Are there any tricks to get it to be smaller, height-wise? I know I can use the service convergence to get it smaller but are there any OTHER tricks?

Simple, change the three 470 ohm resistors, R706, 806, 906 (assuming your V board is a 50-2330-02P) to anywhere between 530 ohm to 550 ohm. You'll have no trouble getting a 2:35 aspect out of this. By the way, I don't really recommend H width at 100 - try to go for around 85 - 90 to avoid stressing the HDM so much. It won't make a hoot of a difference in light output, put's the outer focus & stig zones in better control, and backs down the current used by the HDM also. Don't use green convergence for this raster height problem. ;)
post #9 of 68
12/2/04 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally posted by M NEWMAN
Simple, change the three 470 ohm resistors, R706, 806, 906 (assuming your V board is a 50-2330-02P) to anywhere between 530 ohm to 550 ohm. You'll have no trouble getting a 2:35 aspect out of this. By the way, I don't really recommend H width at 100 - try to go for around 85 - 90 to avoid stressing the HDM so much. It won't make a hoot of a difference in light output, put's the outer focus & stig zones in better control, and backs down the current used by the HDM also. Don't use green convergence for this raster height problem. ;)
Mike,

Isn't R706, 806 and 906 the "ramp" signal? Why couldn't the resistance of R704, 804 and 904 just be increased a little more?

Bruce
post #10 of 68
12/2/04 at 11:14am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim in Cincy
I thought my suggestion on how to change the image size was relevant but I guess not.

Good luck.
Please don't be upset. This thread is about raster size, not picture size or anything else. :)

Quote:
Originally posted by mp20748

I'll look for that module the next time I'm at my shop at the house.
Now we're getting somewhere! I know if the NEC XG series can do this, the Marquee can [eventually] do it better. :D

Quote:
Originally posted by M NEWMAN
(assuming your V board is a 50-2330-02P)
Zoinks, foiled by the fixed-rear-heatsink again. :mad:
I'll check the board number tonight but I'm sure it won't match as I remember modding the R41, R47 and R52 to get 16:9 raster.
Let's not let this end the disscussion though because if I have to, I will mod my chassis to get the hinged-heat-sink or even upgrade the chassis if I have to [eventually].
post #11 of 68
12/2/04 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie

Zoinks, foiled by the fixed-rear-heatsink again. :mad:
I'll check the board number tonight but I'm sure it won't match as I remember modding the R41, R47 and R52 to get 16:9 raster.
Let's not let this end the disscussion though because if I have to, I will mod my chassis to get the hinged-heat-sink or even upgrade the chassis if I have to [eventually].
What board # do you have? If it's a 50-2002-01 or 02P, then solder in parallel (to the original value) of the R41, 47, & 52 resistors up to 68Kohms (range of 51K to 68K). If it's a 50-2020-02P, then R704, 804, 904 get changed to 36 - 44Kohm, depending on how far you need to squeeze.

Bruce, you might be able to do that - I really don't know what the end result would be, but I've always used this mod and it gives me puuuulennnty of range. ;)
post #12 of 68
12/2/04 at 2:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by M NEWMAN
solder in parallel (to the original value) of the R41, 47, & 52 resistors up to 68Kohms (range of 51K to 68K).
The board # is 50-2002-01P. I actually have all my part#'s listed here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...45#post4424245

Okay, so I used 47k resistors on top of the original resistors, for the 16:9 mod. I'll replace those with 51-68, whatever I find at Fry's. I'll post back with results. Thanks for the tip! Let's see what we can do here!! :)
post #13 of 68
12/2/04 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally posted by M NEWMAN
What board # do you have? If it's a 50-2002-01 or 02P, then solder in parallel (to the original value) of the R41, 47, & 52 resistors up to 68Kohms (range of 51K to 68K). If it's a 50-2020-02P, then R704, 804, 904 get changed to 36 - 44Kohm, depending on how far you need to squeeze.

Bruce, you might be able to do that - I really don't know what the end result would be, but I've always used this mod and it gives me puuuulennnty of range. ;)
The standard anamorphic mod to R704, R804 and R904 calls for changing the 30K resistors to 56K, if you put in 36-44K ohm resistors, you might not make it to 16:9.

Did you just make a mistake in the original post where you said R706, R806 and R906 ? :confused:
post #14 of 68
12/2/04 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally posted by techman707
The standard anamorphic mod to R704, R804 and R904 calls for changing the 30K resistors to 56K, if you put in 36-44K ohm resistors, you might not make it to 16:9.
Been a while since I've modded a 2020, so I could easily have my values a little low, so I'm with you here.

Quote:
Originally posted by techman707
Did you just make a mistake in the original post where you said R706, R806 and R906 ? :confused:
No, on the 2330 board, I definitely mean the '06 ones - the very 1st revision of the version board had 430 ohms installed while later versions had 470 ohm. Still wasn't enough, hence the upgrade to anywhere from 530 to 550ohm, depending on the amount of squeeze you need. I've found this mod to be more effective than the '04 changes. Either works though.

Eddie, yea, 47K would be a little low, explaining why you're not getting much range. Rat shack has these though - no need to bother with Fry's (I didn't even know they carried 1/8 & 1/4 watt resistors!).
post #15 of 68
12/2/04 at 5:23pm
Eddie
I'm sure the guys suggesting you change resistor values are on the right track here.
When i originally did the anamorphic mod to my PJ I was unable to get the recommended 56K resistors and used 50K instead. While it was an improvement I could not get the vert size small enough for 16/9 but i could get close. Since i could not get 6K resistors locally (I'm in Winterpeg) at the time I simply put a 10K in series with each 50K. Voila I could get 16/9.
Note: Even with 60K resistors I still can not set v size small enough for 2.35/1.
So I'm sure the solution is a higher value of resistor but I'M NOT SURE HOW HIGH A VALUE YOU CAN USE W/O CAUSING OTHER ISSUES. For that info you'll need the help of the real Guru MP.
post #16 of 68
12/2/04 at 5:33pm
Thread Starter 
Mike, I called Radio Shack and they only carry 47k or 100k, nothing in between. :(

They do have some 5k though. Maybe I can piggyback a couple of those on my 47k resistor to equal 57k?
post #17 of 68
12/2/04 at 5:36pm
Thread Starter 
Energeezer, you had 50k and it wasn't enough for 16:9? I have 47k and I get 16:9 with lots of room to spare.
post #18 of 68
12/2/04 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie
Energeezer, you had 50k and it wasn't enough for 16:9? I have 47k and I get 16:9 with lots of room to spare.
Eddie,

Energeezer is referring to the later boards that you replace R704,804 and 904 with 56K ohms from the original 30K ohms. You must have an older board.
post #19 of 68
12/2/04 at 6:18pm
[quote]They do have some 5k though. Maybe I can piggyback a couple of those on my 47k resistor to equal 57k?[quote]

Eddie
Be carefull. Piggyback usually means in parallel. This will decrease your values. You must link them in series. Just clarifying.
Techman is correct as usual. Mine is a newer board.

As a point of interest.
I have a Marquee 8500 Ultra built in 99 hanging in my theater now and i have to adj V size to 0 for 16/9. Have not had it apart so i am unsure of the mod status but i am surprised that the issue had not been addressed at the factory by 99 sheesh.

Steve
post #20 of 68
12/2/04 at 7:36pm
Hmm…well, for what its worth, - my 9500 Ultra (manufactured in Dec. 99)functions without the anamorphic nod so far. In order to achieve 16:9 aspect, I set the vertical control to 0 and it just makes it.

Somehow I think it is not a good idea to push the control to the limit, but since this control ultimately affects the output of an op-amp and we are talking video control voltages here I doubt that I am doing any damage.

Comments???

Vadim
post #21 of 68
12/2/04 at 9:17pm
I had 3 8500s 2 made in 96 and one in 97, they ALL will "just make it" to 16:9, but if you don't do the anamorphic mod, it creates a slight pin and bow distortion that you don't get if you do the mod.
post #22 of 68
12/2/04 at 9:28pm
Thread Starter 
Even after the mod, my '94 8000 would only "just make it" with height set to "0".

Anyway, just got back from Fry's. Picked up a pack of 1/4 watt 2% (didn't have 5%) 68ohm metal film resistors. The next step down was 51ohm.
Also got a pack of 5% but those are carbon and I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to use those. Have the vert board out now and I'm just getting my soldering iron hot. :)
post #23 of 68
12/2/04 at 9:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie
Even after the mod, my '94 8000 would only "just make it" with height set to "0".

Anyway, just got back from Fry's. Picked up a pack of 1/4 watt 2% (didn't have 5%) 68ohm metal film resistors. The next step down was 51ohm.
Also got a pack of 5% but those are carbon and I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to use those. Have the vert board out now and I'm just getting my soldering iron hot. :)
Your 94 8000 had the "old" style board, are you sure you did the right mod ?
post #24 of 68
12/2/04 at 10:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie
just got back from Fry's. Picked up a pack of 1/4 watt 2% (didn't have 5%) 68ohm metal film resistors.
Well that didn't work. I didn't gain anything. :confused:
Though it seems my soldering skills are improving somewhat.

Bruce, in answer to your question, the 8000 was a hinged heatsink model and I'm fairly sure I did the right mod.

Energeezer, thanks for the clarification. Looking at the etechvideo site, I should have used the term "bridged" instead. :)
post #25 of 68
12/2/04 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie
Well that didn't work. I didn't gain anything. :confused:
Though it seems my soldering skills are improving somewhat.

Bruce, in answer to your question, the 8000 was a hinged heatsink model and I'm fairly sure I did the right mod.

Energeezer, thanks for the clarification. Looking at the etechvideo site, I should have used the term "bridged" instead. :)
Have you posted the board number you're working on? You seem to be having a problem. You should have easily been able to bring the raster down. Can you post a picture of what you did?
post #26 of 68
12/3/04 at 12:10am
Thread Starter 
The board # is 50-2002-01P. Unfortunately I don't have my digicam with me.
post #27 of 68
12/3/04 at 12:35am
Eddie,

On that board you changed the values of R41, R47 and R52 right? If so, you either REMOVED the 10K resistors and replaced them with 8200 ohm resistors, or you "bridged" (paralleled) the 10K resistors with 47K or 50K resistors, which did you do? Personally, I like replacing them. In any event, if you used the correct values for whatever method you used, the raster MUST be able to be brought down further than originally, if not, you have a soldering problem.

Bruce
post #28 of 68
12/3/04 at 12:41am
Thread Starter 
Bruce, I have never replaced the resistors on this board. All I did was bridge 68k resistors on top of the existing 10k resistors.
And yes, I did R41, 47 and 52.

I looked at each resistor and they all appear to be solded in place. What would happen if just one of them was not on properly? Would all three colors be effected or just one?

Thanks. :)
post #29 of 68
12/3/04 at 1:08am
Quote:
Originally posted by CZ Eddie
Bruce, I have never replaced the resistors on this board. All I did was bridge 68k resistors on top of the existing 10k resistors.
And yes, I did R41, 47 and 52.

I looked at each resistor and they all appear to be solded in place. What would happen if just one of them was not on properly? Would all three colors be effected or just one?

Thanks. :)
It should ONLY affect one channel. I don't get it, you shouldn't have needed 68K. Can you get a 16:9 raster and if so, What number is the vertical RGB number at?
post #30 of 68
12/3/04 at 1:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by techman707
Can you get a 16:9 raster and if so, What number is the vertical RGB number at?
Carumba, with 1280x720 I need to have picture size at 100/3 where before it only needed 100/7. This means I actually took a step backwards. I don't get it either, because I got the new resistors from the same place (Fry's) and they are even the same brand and same spec, except for these being 68k while the old ones were 47k. :confused:

That's what you meant by RGB number, right?
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