42" EDT's: Panasonic vs. NEC vs. LG - Advice? Comment?  

I have been a very avid reader of this forum for the past 2 weeks and want to thank the thousands of you who contribute. This type of communal knowledge sharing is the internet at its best.

I have been on the hunt for a widescreen to replace my 32" CRT for about the last 3 months and have diligently pursued the many competing technologies out there. I have come to the conclusion that plasma displays provide the greatest fidelity and "window on the world" at this time. I have narrowed my search down to the 42" EDT format and have spent hundreds of hours in a wide variety of stores and on the internet educating my eyes and brain.

By way of background, key information which I am using to support my decision includes:

- Room in which the display will be used is quite bright and includes a skylight;
- Viewing distance is 8.5 to 9 ft. from eyeball to screen;
- Primary content viewed is DVD (90%) with the remainder sports on SD cable. Should the NHL decide to resume play this may become 80% DVD vs. 20% SD/HD sports.
- Audio is run through a dedicated 5.1 system (Paradigm Reference, Denon)
- Video tuner for cable will be via a Canon professional VHS deck (oldie but goodie)

I have an existing CRT which I use for watching news programs etc. on cable so what I am looking for is a 42" plasma monitor as the display for a dedicated home theatre.

After reading many of the posts on this forum as well as other sources online, and after comparing the Panasonic, LG and JVC plasmas at length in stores, I have a suspicion that the NEC VR5 or VM5 - which of course I have NOT seen as its absolutely unavailable in Vancouver where I live - is the best choice.

I have a/b'ed the Panasonic, JVC and LG against one another and have also come to a conclusion that I don't believe has been emphasized on this forum - while contrast ratio and black levels are important, the grey scale number of steps or gradations a unit can process and the total number of colours it can display is also a vitally important part of the equation - maybe more important.

I've stumbled across that idea based on my sessions with the 3 units above. I have painstaking adjusted the JVC and the LG to match the Panasonic (which seems to be an accepted reference for contrast and blacks) but was never successful in making either of them emulate its striking clarity and 3 dimensionality, despite working with each display for at least 2 hours. They were all showing an identical distributed program feed.

On digging into the specs I was struck by the following - the Panasonic provides 2,058 steps and 3.6 billion colours with a 4000:1 CR. The LG provides only 16.77 million colours and therefore must have many fewer steps, yet its CR is 5000:1. The JVC must be the same as the Panasonic as it uses the same glass - although I don't know enough to know whether what I'm talking about is a function of the electronic processors or the glass. I suspect its a function of the electronics (processor). BTW, I know the published manufacturer derived CR specs are questionable. But it seemed to my eyes that the LG actually did show a slightly greater CR than the Panny. The striking thing was that the LG was simply no match for the Panasonic in terms of its picture quality.

Since the NEC VR5 doubles the Panasonic 7UY with 4,096 steps and the capabilty to produce 68 billion colours, as opposed to 3.6 billion, it seems to me that when properly set up it must be capable of capturing a stunning approximation of reality. Benefits should include much reduced false contouring as well as enhanced dimensionality due to the significantly greater ability to present extremely subtle shadings and colours. This is akin to the difference I observed between the LG at 16.77 million and the Panasonic.

Since its impossible for me to actually view the NEC prior to purchase I thought I'd ask forum readers with experience with the VR/VM/VP 5, or any others who wish to weigh in, for comments. Don't get me wrong - I think the Panasonic 7UY is absolutely amazing and its a solid second choice at this point for me. But I think the NEC suits my needs more due to -

- Fairly bright room in which I will view (at least during the day)
- Steps/colours as above
- No S-video issues
- DVI included, as well as greater connectivity
- 3 year warranty on electronics (same as Panny on plasma glass)

The cost for the Panny and NEC units is identical here in Canada - the JVC (inc. tuner and speakers) is a few hundred more loonies - as opposed to Benjamins - and the LG (inc. tuner and speakers) a few hundred less. Bizarrely, I could get the HD 42" LG Hurricane series plasma for only a few hundred more loonies too. But it too can only produce 16.77 million colours and based on my a/b'ing with the LG EDTV as well as my viewing habits I don't think it would be a good choice.

Apologies for the length of this post - I've been as brief as I can. I'd love to hear about the longer term experiences of NEC owners of 5 series ED versions regarding picture quality, or any other information from those of you who have already travelled this arduous road (I know - no pain, no gain!).

And once again, thanks for what you have taught me so far. I ain't no Jedi Knight videophile yet - but I ain't no rube about to be taken to the cleaners by some slick willy salesperson neither! Cheers,

Johnnycanuck

PS. The best display I have seen consistently has been the Panny 37 consumer version, which offers an absolutely amazing picture. Sitting beside a Sharp 37" LCD it showed every bit as much clarity of resolution but much greater depth/dimensionality and realism. But its just a tad too small for my likes.

Thanks to all for your comments so far.

Mishu, I'll check out the thread. I followed your comments re: the VR5 on this forum and found them helpful.

Perryu, I have been to evisions twice and found Edward and Yuriy extremely helpful. The first time we spent about 1.5 hours on the Panasonic 42" wd7UY. The second time we compared the HD LG 42" Hurricane 42px12x against the Panasonic HD 7UY. The Panny was a 50" but the comparison was interesting. Even though it was set at the same distance (about 10') as the LG and therefore you'd expect more SDE and a poorer perceived picture, it was actually better on DVD. The LG looked etched and lacked the 3-D effect I referred to earlier.

Another potential customer came over and brought a brand new (literally in an unsealed box) Samsung HD831 DVD player as he also wanted to make the comparison. We were unable to get the 831 to output on component or DVI to the 2 plasmas (must have been doing something wrong) so we had to send signals via the s-video to the LG and composite to the Panny. When we fired it all up the LG looked considerably better than previously on the upconverted signal - even Edward and Yuriy were surprised. It was significantly smoother, less etched, with richer colours etc, and had come much closer to the Panny. It would have been really useful to compare using the component and DVI connections but that was not possible.

At the time I was considering the 42" HD LG as through evision its the same cost as the ED VR5 and 7UY once you add in the cost of the stand for the NEC and the DVI blade and stand for the Panasonic. That makes it an apples to apples comparison almost - except that the LG is HD and also has speakers and a tuner onboard. However, for DVD its picture quality was not as natural or "believable" (an ellusive quality) as the Panasonic. And since this hobby is all about image ...

I had it in mind that since the LG has 5000:1 (quoted spec) CR, has the same 60,000 hour longevity and is HD for the same cost that it would be a better purchase, especially considering future-proofing. But on the basis of that test I was unconvinced - I think because of its inability to handle as many gradations and colours as I mentioned in my original post. BTW, I'd be happy for an LG owner to suggest otherwise and prove me wrong.

The difficulty about this journey, as most of you know, is that reading voraciously to build a background of knowledge/understanding and spending significant time in stores under their poor show conditions (lighting, feed split/distributed to 100 TV's, lousy set-up) comparing as best as possible the various sets, cannot hold a candle to actual use in home conditions. So can any of you who have NEC VR or VM 5's or the LG 42" HD set relay info about PQ, things you have had to do to the settings or other user experience?

Another reason I'm drawn to the VR5 is that according to most it has a less intrusive picture stretch function than the Panasonic and it has the ability to adjust colours without affecting the white balance. Conceptually that makes a lot of sense, but I'm interested in any insights anyone can provide me about how effective that is in practise. The NEC (via evision) is also a Canadian product (not grey market like their Panny's and LG's) and therefore its warranty is good here. Panasonic - this forum is filled with the comments of satisfied owners :-) and I'm not sure how much more can be said.

I've added my experiences here as they may prove interesting/useful to someone in Canada going through the same search process (and maybe the US). Plasmas here are significantly more expensive than in the US (1.5 to 2 times the cost even though the dollar difference is only 1.2 at this time) so its a considerably larger and more agonizing purchase here than below the 49th parallel. We also don't have the same e-tail environment, although I'd encourage any Canadian to check out evision as they have been extremely accommodating and helpful, not to mention patient, and have unbelievable prices compared to the big box retailers.

Thanks again for your comments and insights.

johnnycanuck

Thanks everyone.

Absolutic you are right and you had me lol. The time I have spent has been a huge learning experience that has taken me from 34" CRT w/s to DLP/LCD/LCOS rear proj. and now to the 42" panny/NEC. The decision is likely harder here in Canada as costs are so much higher. With the recent price drops in plasmas a consumer Panasonic ED 42" series 20UP (same as the 25UP stateside) still runs for around $4500 at a B&M. Add in 14% taxes and you get to $5130. So its a far bigger gamble when ya rolls the dice on a display/technology. But I do agree totally with you all the same. And just for you, I'll be making a decision next week :-)

Hoodlum, are you sure? AV Deals in Ontario also sells the NEC but I'm leery to have the unit shipped if I can get it locally. Do you have any experience with purchasing the extended warranty from them for a product not from their store?

PerryU re: making a trip to the coast to see the NEC - don't bother. I have been unable to find anyone here in Vancouver who has one even on static display to look at.

Anyone out there have any other experiences re: picture quality etc. to share?

Appreciated.

Johnnycanuck

WOW! It appears I've tapped into a wellspring of unrequited NEC lust! (am I allowed to say things like that on this site?)

Tmac145 and Luzer thanks for the PM's. I've responded to you in that format. BTW, as a total newbie to this posting thing I'd like to congratulate the person(s) who designed the AVS Forum site. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to computer programs but let me tell you, this one, especially the PM function, is simply amazing and highly intuitive. Hats off (well OK, its a John Deere tractor cap - I'm a canuck after all) to the nameless, faceless wonderkids who created and maintain this site.

For all the other canuckleheads out there I called the AV Unlimited store that tmac refers to here in Vancouver but they're closed Monday. What the @*&%* kind of business closes on a weekday 12 days out from Christmas in the busiest retail period of the year!?! I'll follow up with them tomorrow and see if the NEC is available here. Their website simply states that you have to check each store for products as they all carry their own models!?! What th'!?! Tmac also provided another possible source to view the VM4 in Vancouver which I'll pursue as well to see if they have a "5" series display.

Since there is much more interest in the NEC than I ever imagined, I'll keep this post going with my thoughts assuming I purchase one, including an assessment of PQ etc. Might as well contribute what I can to the body of knowledge here, especially since it has been such an incredible source of info for me (thanks folks!) . If I wind up with the Panasonic I'll refrain as there is so much info already about that unit on the forum.

Re: the question of the LG HD 42" Hurricane, which I could purchase for essentially the same in Canada as the ED Panasonic or NEC, no one has responded that it would be a better choice to buy the HD. I think most of the HD vs. ED question has been covered in previous threads, but the premise is always that the HD will be about $1,000 to $1,200 more (US) than ED. But if they are the same cost, as in this case, what then?

It seems to me that the NEC is still #1 in my books and the Panny #2 due to colour fidelity/processing and the simple specs - 16 million colours for the LG, 3.6 billion for the Panasonic and 68 billion for the NEC. That's not the only consideration by any means, but the NEC certainly has the opportunity to provide a more true-to-life picture it would seem. But with respect to ensuring that the display is future proof, under the circunstances is the HD a better choice, especially paired with an upconverting DVD player as in my earlier test? Comments anyone?

BTW, the 60,000 hour panels all models have is more than anyone will ever need. For instance, I will use this panel to watch roughly 2 DVD's per week MAX. And if I added 2 hockey games per week that would total maybe 10 hours/week - which is more than I EVER watch. That's 520 hours/year. Lets say I'm out by a factor of about 2x. That gives you more or less 1,000 hours/year = 60 years to half brightness! Just thought I'd make that point.

Thanks also for the many comments re: warranty coverage, especially north of the 49th. I'll pursue that issue when/as I buy my plasma and keep y'all posted. Ciao amigos.

Johnnycanuck
"When scratched I bleed red maple leafs"