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Charlotte, NC - OTA - Page 177

post #5281 of 5937
11/17/12 at 6:55am
Perhaps the above post explains my recent issues...

I have lived at my current location for 2 years. I receive most Greensboro and most Raleigh channels OTA as well as WGSR, WGPX, WUVC, and WUNC. Also, with effort and an antenna turn, WSET, WDBJ, and WFXR Roanoke/Lynchburg). This summer, I was losing WLFL and WRDC a lot and I decided to get new wiring and move the amplifier closer to the antenna. That worked well and things across the board got better. My strongest signals were (levels based on Directv AM21 tuner and based on 2 weeks of averages taken at 11pm):

WUNC PBS 100%
WGPX ION 97%
WCWG CW 90%
WRAL CBS 84%
WGHP FOX 78%
WUVC Univision 76%
WFMY CBS 68%
most other in the 40s and 50s
etc...

Since Sandy's winds, things have gone downhill. WLXI and WMYV, which were spotty before, are over 50% now (on the AM21, usually over 35% is a constant lock with minimal fluttering) but WRAL and WRAZ are gone during the day and WRAL will come back at night sometimes, but it's very pixelated. None of the trees were downed near me, but the leaves are now gone, and a few limbs. I am not really sure where to go from here to get it back. I have tried moving the amp back to where it was before where I know WRAL worked last winter, but it did not help this time. The antenna obviously still works (all of the other channels are fine, even WTVD with its VHF RF) and I am lost. I like WRAL and WRAZ's MeTV (I can't get WXII OTA). Since WRAL and WRAZ are adjacent RF signals, 48 and 49 respectively, I can't help but think that whatever is causing the issues is something related to that. But, then WGSR is RF 47 and is clearer than ever. My antenna isn't the best, Terk HDTVo, but has been awesome for me for several years.

I realize this isn't about channels in this market, but the topic seems relative since it's about suddenly losing chanels. WFMY is a trainwreck of a channel and resorting to it for CBS is annoying.
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post #5282 of 5937
11/17/12 at 8:18am
I can second ADTech's comments regarding trees and their unpredictable effect on signals.

About a year ago, I took a cell phone video of my spectrum analyzer screen while watching a local station on a very windy day. I'm in a valley and am surrounded by trees, both evergreen and deciduous, in the signal path.

Sorry about the poor quality. Crappy cellphone plus a brightly lit room will make for a video that's not easy to make out. The clip is 30 seconds long.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tvkiy3rz36zh1ic/Windy_day_Spec_an.3g2
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post #5283 of 5937
11/17/12 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post

Perhaps the above post explains my recent issues...
I have lived at my current location for 2 years. I receive most Greensboro and most Raleigh channels OTA as well as WGSR, WGPX, WUVC, and WUNC. Also, with effort and an antenna turn, WSET, WDBJ, and WFXR Roanoke/Lynchburg). This summer, I was losing WLFL and WRDC a lot and I decided to get new wiring and move the amplifier closer to the antenna. That worked well and things across the board got better. My strongest signals were (levels based on Directv AM21 tuner and based on 2 weeks of averages taken at 11pm):
WUNC PBS 100%
WGPX ION 97%
WCWG CW 90%
WRAL CBS 84%
WGHP FOX 78%
WUVC Univision 76%
WFMY CBS 68%
most other in the 40s and 50s
etc...
Since Sandy's winds, things have gone downhill. WLXI and WMYV, which were spotty before, are over 50% now (on the AM21, usually over 35% is a constant lock with minimal fluttering) but WRAL and WRAZ are gone during the day and WRAL will come back at night sometimes, but it's very pixelated. None of the trees were downed near me, but the leaves are now gone, and a few limbs. I am not really sure where to go from here to get it back. I have tried moving the amp back to where it was before where I know WRAL worked last winter, but it did not help this time. The antenna obviously still works (all of the other channels are fine, even WTVD with its VHF RF) and I am lost. I like WRAL and WRAZ's MeTV (I can't get WXII OTA). Since WRAL and WRAZ are adjacent RF signals, 48 and 49 respectively, I can't help but think that whatever is causing the issues is something related to that. But, then WGSR is RF 47 and is clearer than ever. My antenna isn't the best, Terk HDTVo, but has been awesome for me for several years.
I realize this isn't about channels in this market, but the topic seems relative since it's about suddenly losing chanels. WFMY is a trainwreck of a channel and resorting to it for CBS is annoying.
If you are using the built in amp that came with the HDTVo, then perhaps that amp has gone bad. Can you try substituting a different preamp? Also, a better antenna should improve your reception possibilities if it is something you would want to consider.
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post #5284 of 5937
11/17/12 at 9:08am
And make sure that the amp on the HDTVo is both plugged in and the switch is turned on. Otherwise poor results.
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post #5285 of 5937
11/17/12 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post

Perhaps the above post explains my recent issues...
I have lived at my current location for 2 years. I receive most Greensboro and most Raleigh channels OTA as well as WGSR, WGPX, WUVC, and WUNC. Also, with effort and an antenna turn, WSET, WDBJ, and WFXR Roanoke/Lynchburg). This summer, I was losing WLFL and WRDC a lot and I decided to get new wiring and move the amplifier closer to the antenna. That worked well and things across the board got better. My strongest signals were (levels based on Directv AM21 tuner and based on 2 weeks of averages taken at 11pm):
WUNC PBS 100%
WGPX ION 97%
WCWG CW 90%
WRAL CBS 84%
WGHP FOX 78%
WUVC Univision 76%
WFMY CBS 68%
most other in the 40s and 50s
etc...
Since Sandy's winds, things have gone downhill. WLXI and WMYV, which were spotty before, are over 50% now (on the AM21, usually over 35% is a constant lock with minimal fluttering) but WRAL and WRAZ are gone during the day and WRAL will come back at night sometimes, but it's very pixelated. None of the trees were downed near me, but the leaves are now gone, and a few limbs. I am not really sure where to go from here to get it back. I have tried moving the amp back to where it was before where I know WRAL worked last winter, but it did not help this time. The antenna obviously still works (all of the other channels are fine, even WTVD with its VHF RF) and I am lost. I like WRAL and WRAZ's MeTV (I can't get WXII OTA). Since WRAL and WRAZ are adjacent RF signals, 48 and 49 respectively, I can't help but think that whatever is causing the issues is something related to that. But, then WGSR is RF 47 and is clearer than ever. My antenna isn't the best, Terk HDTVo, but has been awesome for me for several years.
I realize this isn't about channels in this market, but the topic seems relative since it's about suddenly losing chanels. WFMY is a trainwreck of a channel and resorting to it for CBS is annoying.

the information supplied suggests a lot of things are not wrong.
One thing might be that the angle of the antenna in relation to the ground might have been altered in the winds.
This could explain why stations in one direction are OK, but not so in another.
Maybe, if the antenna is angled "up" at little westerly, stations in those directuions might be fine, but, then the antenna
would be pointed "down" a little easterly, and those stations a problem.
I'd look, and check how firm the antenna is mounted.
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post #5286 of 5937
11/17/12 at 12:56pm
I don't think my issues are caused by any of the above. Nothing has changed from the antenna. Same antenna, same direction, it's still pointed through trees, etc. The signal simply dropped to an unwatchable state in no time at all. Almost like a discontinuity and there has been no change since. Prior to that, I was able to pick it up WHKY from the time their new transmission system went online last year. To me, this does not suggest natural causes. I've ruled out equipment issues as I had an independent TV/antenna combo that also can no longer pickup this station. I don't have any issues with any of the other stations that I receive. And the fact that I can pick up a station another 40 miles past WHKY would also indicate no equipment failure.

I think it is on their end.

I've have since spoken to someone else that also watches this station and they report that similar has happened to them. So my only conclusion is that something changed at the station. I was hoping that the station engineer, who posted above, was going to report back additional details if any.
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post #5287 of 5937
11/17/12 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

I've have since spoken to someone else that also watches this station and they report that similar has happened to them. So my only conclusion is that something changed at the station. I was hoping that the station engineer, who posted above, was going to report back additional details if any.

Have you considered that after Sandy, the multipath landscape has changed. Posters in the NYC forum have complained that when the WTC approached its maximum height, they couldn't receive certain stations that they used to receive reliably. That's because the multipath signals were altered causing the hot and cold spots to move. They could after they repositioned their roof antenna. Your solution is to reposition your roof antenna.
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post #5288 of 5937
11/17/12 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post

Perhaps the above post explains my recent issues...
I have lived at my current location for 2 years. I receive most Greensboro and most Raleigh channels OTA as well as WGSR, WGPX, WUVC, and WUNC. Also, with effort and an antenna turn, WSET, WDBJ, and WFXR Roanoke/Lynchburg). This summer, I was losing WLFL and WRDC a lot and I decided to get new wiring and move the amplifier closer to the antenna. That worked well and things across the board got better. My strongest signals were (levels based on Directv AM21 tuner and based on 2 weeks of averages taken at 11pm):
WUNC PBS 100%
WGPX ION 97%
WCWG CW 90%
WRAL CBS 84%
WGHP FOX 78%
WUVC Univision 76%
WFMY CBS 68%
most other in the 40s and 50s
etc...
Since Sandy's winds, things have gone downhill. WLXI and WMYV, which were spotty before, are over 50% now (on the AM21, usually over 35% is a constant lock with minimal fluttering) but WRAL and WRAZ are gone during the day and WRAL will come back at night sometimes, but it's very pixelated. None of the trees were downed near me, but the leaves are now gone, and a few limbs. I am not really sure where to go from here to get it back. I have tried moving the amp back to where it was before where I know WRAL worked last winter, but it did not help this time. The antenna obviously still works (all of the other channels are fine, even WTVD with its VHF RF) and I am lost. I like WRAL and WRAZ's MeTV (I can't get WXII OTA). Since WRAL and WRAZ are adjacent RF signals, 48 and 49 respectively, I can't help but think that whatever is causing the issues is something related to that. But, then WGSR is RF 47 and is clearer than ever. My antenna isn't the best, Terk HDTVo, but has been awesome for me for several years.
I realize this isn't about channels in this market, but the topic seems relative since it's about suddenly losing chanels. WFMY is a trainwreck of a channel and resorting to it for CBS is annoying.

With you being in the Burlington area, I would guess that you are range to receive Raleigh stations, such as WRAL. And the fact that you've received that particular channel for the past 2 years proves that you are in range. I think others on here have probably given you some good advice in suggesting that you check into replacing your antenna, amp, as well as examing the orientation of your antenna (making sure it is level and repositioned as needed). Please post back your results if you change out any of your equipment.

Btw, based on your signal percentage averages that you posted, it appears you've got your antenna facing towards Raleigh versus the Greensboro market. Otherwise, I would have expected your signal percentages to be higher on stations such as WGHP and WFMY (before you started having the current problem that you described).
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post #5289 of 5937
11/18/12 at 1:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredengineer View Post

Have you considered that after Sandy,....

Sandy came no where close to Charlotte (hundreds of miles away and there wasn't even a drop of rain) and this issue did not coincide with that event. The station that I'm trying to pick up is even further west. Though the problem is not my antenna position, I did in fact try to re-point it at WHKY. No success.

You are probably confused because the posts previous to this one are talking about a market in Eastern NC that shouldn't even be discussed in the Charlotte forum. It's got nothing to do with what we see here in the Western part of the state.
Edited by blackcat6 - 11/18/12 at 1:17am
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post #5290 of 5937
11/18/12 at 6:08am
Here in Mint Hill..I get WHKY just fine with no issues..better than WTVI...I was talking the other day with a coworker who lives in Derita..he was raving about how well he could get WHKY from Hickory with an indoor antenna..I then explained to him about the WHKY transmitter over on WTVI's tower..which he was unaware of. biggrin.gif
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post #5291 of 5937
11/18/12 at 7:15am
There are two separate issues here. People receiving WKHY from Hickory (my issue) and the people living in Charlotte receiving WKHY from their DTS in East. Charlotte. It would be my guess that your acquaintance in Derita is picking up the station in E. Charlotte because picking it up from Hickory would be quite a challenge from there.

Derita is about 4.5 miles from the E. CLT tower whereas it's 45 miles to Hickory tower.

Receiving the DTS from Lake Norman is a No Go. However it should be pretty easy to pickup with a 8 bay antenna pointed at Baker Mtn. It's just over 30 miles from here and line of sight too.
Edited by blackcat6 - 11/18/12 at 7:21am
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post #5292 of 5937
11/18/12 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

I don't think my issues are caused by any of the above. Nothing has changed from the antenna. Same antenna, same direction, it's still pointed through trees, etc. The signal simply dropped to an unwatchable state in no time at all. Almost like a discontinuity and there has been no change since. Prior to that, I was able to pick it up WHKY from the time their new transmission system went online last year. To me, this does not suggest natural causes. I've ruled out equipment issues as I had an independent TV/antenna combo that also can no longer pickup this station. I don't have any issues with any of the other stations that I receive. And the fact that I can pick up a station another 40 miles past WHKY would also indicate no equipment failure.
I think it is on their end.
I've have since spoken to someone else that also watches this station and they report that similar has happened to them. So my only conclusion is that something changed at the station. I was hoping that the station engineer, who posted above, was going to report back additional details if any.

http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/reference/resources/trees-and-uhf-reception.pdf
I don't know id this might help, or not.
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post #5293 of 5937
11/18/12 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

It would be my guess that your acquaintance in Derita is picking up the station in E. Charlotte because picking it up from Hickory would be quite a challenge from there..

Well.. Duhh..with an indoor antenna.. of course he is.. wink.gif
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post #5294 of 5937
11/18/12 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

Well.. Duhh..with an indoor antenna.. of course he is.. wink.gif
Oh. I thought you were trying to make some sort of point beyond stating the obvious. smile.gif
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post #5295 of 5937
11/19/12 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasjl View Post

According to TVFOOL http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dcc49946da2b100 I'm only 8.1 miles from the Charlotte transmitter for WHKY. I had it before with all the leaves. Something has changed dramatically.

Well I rescanned the TV this morning and WHKY is back.. No idea what happened.
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post #5296 of 5937
11/28/12 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by A J View Post

Ouch! Looks like Sony DVR owners will be impacted far worse than CM-7000PAL owners when TVGOS is discontinued. The CM-7000PAL automatically switches to PSIP whenever TVGOS is unavailable. Time can chosen as a weighted average of the times transmitted OTA locally, or time can be manually set on the DVR if the OTA times seem inaccurate.
Since your South Carolina station has already dropped TVGOS, then WTVI probably won't be far behind.

This seems pretty final if true.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/27/rovi-gemstar-tv-quide-ota-shutdown/
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post #5297 of 5937
11/28/12 at 6:11am
TVGOS/ROVI service on WSOC is ending in April 2013. They are terminating it.
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post #5298 of 5937
11/28/12 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

This seems pretty final if true.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/27/rovi-gemstar-tv-quide-ota-shutdown/

I couldn't access that link, but here is another, from a usually reliable source, describing the phases of OTA TVGOS shutdown.
http://www.rabbitears.info/blog/index.php?post/2012/11/24/TVGOS-Ending
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post #5299 of 5937
11/28/12 at 10:14am
This is the one reason why I am glad I built my DVR, so I can just work around these issues... that stinks for eveyone whol plunked down all that money for a DVR...
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post #5300 of 5937
11/30/12 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisbee View Post

This is the one reason why I am glad I built my DVR, so I can just work around these issues... that stinks for eveyone whol plunked down all that money for a DVR...

Yep, losing TVGOS in a few months will definitely hurt. My CM-7000PAL gets a full week's TVGOS program guide for the major network affiliates and at least a couple days for the independents. Scheduling of recordings is point-and-click for anything in the guide. And, the DVR's clock, as set by TVGOS, has always been accurate.

To see how bad it will become, I restored my DVR to factory defaults last night and disabled TVGOS so that only PSIP is being received for Charlotte OTA program guides. This morning at 9:00 AM the program guide showed the following for the local OTA stations I receive, listed from worst to best.

WCCB (FOX) thru 5:00 PM today (Friday)
WBTV (CBS), WJZY and WMYT thru 7:00 PM today
WCNC (NBC) thru 7:00 AM Saturday
UNC-TV (PBS) thru 7:00 PM Saturday
WSOC (ABC), WHKY, WTVI (PBS), and WAXN thru 7:00 AM Monday (that, I could live with!)

The very short PSIP for FOX and CBS prompted me to double check that duration using my Sanyo TV. It confirmed that PSIP for FOX and CBS ended at the same time my DVR indicated. Hopefully, WCCB and WBTV will be able to provide extended PSIP in the future, maybe match the 3-days that WSOC, WHKY, WTVI, and WAXN are broadcasting.

My DVR's clock, now set by the weighted average of local stations' PSIP, is one minute and 12 seconds slow. That issue can be handled by increasing my DVR's default padding of start and end times for recordings. Still, it would be nice if the PSIP time was more accurate.

Meanwhile, I'll reset to TVGOS and make hay while the sun shines.
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post #5301 of 5937
11/30/12 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by A J View Post

Hopefully, WCCB and WBTV will be able to provide extended PSIP in the future, maybe match the 3-days that WSOC, WHKY, WTVI, and WAXN are broadcasting.
.

No plans to do so at this time.
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post #5302 of 5937
11/30/12 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A J View Post

Yep, losing TVGOS in a few months will definitely hurt. My CM-7000PAL gets a full week's TVGOS program guide for the major network affiliates and at least a couple days for the independents. Scheduling of recordings is point-and-click for anything in the guide. And, the DVR's clock, as set by TVGOS, has always been accurate.
To see how bad it will become, I restored my DVR to factory defaults last night and disabled TVGOS so that only PSIP is being received for Charlotte OTA program guides. This morning at 9:00 AM the program guide showed the following for the local OTA stations I receive, listed from worst to best.
WCCB (FOX) thru 5:00 PM today (Friday)
WBTV (CBS), WJZY and WMYT thru 7:00 PM today
WCNC (NBC) thru 7:00 AM Saturday
UNC-TV (PBS) thru 7:00 PM Saturday
WSOC (ABC), WHKY, WTVI (PBS), and WAXN thru 7:00 AM Monday (that, I could live with!)
The very short PSIP for FOX and CBS prompted me to double check that duration using my Sanyo TV. It confirmed that PSIP for FOX and CBS ended at the same time my DVR indicated. Hopefully, WCCB and WBTV will be able to provide extended PSIP in the future, maybe match the 3-days that WSOC, WHKY, WTVI, and WAXN are broadcasting.
My DVR's clock, now set by the weighted average of local stations' PSIP, is one minute and 12 seconds slow. That issue can be handled by increasing my DVR's default padding of start and end times for recordings. Still, it would be nice if the PSIP time was more accurate.
Meanwhile, I'll reset to TVGOS and make hay while the sun shines.

Your time my be off due to WJZY. Noted their time was off this week by 5min slow.
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post #5303 of 5937
11/30/12 at 1:35pm
Before I went to a DVR for OTA and started pulling Schedules Direct data, I noticed that WBTV would sometimes go days at a time without providing any PSIP program info. Usually it happened over the weekends. It seems to me that none of the stations really had more more than about 8 hours from the present available. (though that could be a Samsung TV limitation) Sometimes it was a lot less. It's OK for live TV but IMO would be pretty useless for scheduling purposes to record on a DVR.
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post #5304 of 5937
11/30/12 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

It seems to me that none of the stations really had more more than about 8 hours from the present available. (though that could be a Samsung TV limitation).

I have a 3 year old Samsung LCD TV and its PSIP guide is limited to a few hours (less than 12 hours). However, my DVR does get 3 days of PSIP on four of our local stations. I assume that the DVR could display a full week's PSIP if the stations would broadcast that much.
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post #5305 of 5937
11/30/12 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

No plans to do so at this time.(extended PSIP)

I'm curious as to the marketing logic behind that decision (cost shouldn't be much of a factor). I would think that WCCB would want to be competitive with other Charlotte stations in meeting customer expectations. With the upcoming loss of TVGOS, the PSIP guide will become very important to digital OTA viewers.
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post #5306 of 5937
11/30/12 at 4:19pm
TiVo may be the best choice for a comprehensive and extended program guide. You can often purchase one on sale, and they often have a $100 off coupon code for lifetime subscription. The newer Channel Master 7400 DVR has proven to be problematic as it overheats and has a poor tuner. And you also have to pay for a detailed EPG.
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post #5307 of 5937
12/1/12 at 2:02am
Over time Tivo's fees become quite pricey for a stand alone DVR. (or big money if you go lifetime) I had ruled it out due to the costs especially if you have more than one TV. Based on what I read about the CM I wasn't comfortable with purchasing one.

With some very modest PC equipment you can build an extremely functional DVR that exceeds what Tivo provides using Windows Media Center or even better Myth TV. If you use Myth, a year's subscription to Schedules Direct costs just $25 and this will give you access to 2+ weeks schedule data that you can refresh as often as you like. Mine is set to pull data once/day. Myth will also automatically go to TVDB and TMDB to pull additional metadata about what you are watching and will even download covers, artwork, etc. that gets displayed when you look at program lists, etc. It also has options for streaming & recording internet content and acting as a HTPC streamer for any local video files that you have.

I've got one backend and it drives 3 TVs. I can start watching a show on one TV, pause or end it, and then resume it on another TV. If you live on a difficult to receive lot like I do, you can hook more than one antenna to it and it will automatically pick the right antenna for the channel being watched or recorded. For me, it's been a very nice feature.
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post #5308 of 5937
12/2/12 at 12:47pm
I doubt this has not been noted. I have lost the 3 sub-channels of WHKY. The main channels seems normal. That I am receiving and decoding 14.1, suggests that there is a problem that is not at my end.
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post #5309 of 5937
12/3/12 at 9:04am
I just bought myself a ROKU XS for Christmas. I give Me great presents. smile.gif

Its going to be fun checking it out.

All of my stations are still coming in OK. I had WMTY there for a month, then it went away again. Every once in a while a station will go out due to problems at the station, bu they usually come back on quickly.

Otherwise, as usual around here.
Edited by Country_Boy - 12/3/12 at 1:41pm
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post #5310 of 5937
12/3/12 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Country_Boy View Post

I just bought myself a ROKU XS for Christmas. I give Me great presents. smile.gif
Its going to be fun checking it out.
All of my stations are still coming in OK. I had WMTY there for a month, then it went away again. Every once in a while a station will go out due to probles at the station, bu they usually come back on quickly.
Otherwise, as usual around here.

It is a great unit - make sure you do a websearch on all the private channel that are available but not advertised - makes a good unit even better.
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