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Charlotte, NC - OTA - Page 225

post #6721 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

I guess winegard wants to jump into the ditch with Mohu and sell some snake oil foil & paper at huge mark up. In the CLT metro area, I would not want to suggest any antenna that wouldn't pick up VHF 11 since that is the county PBS station along with 2 very good subchannels. If you live in the Lake Norman area, SCETV is a no-go and UNCTV has an irresponsibly (from a NC taxpayer perspective) bad signal for CLT.

I also don't understand the rationale behind putting an amp on an indoor antenna. Seems like it's there for hype and of course even more markup.

I would not recommend the Mohu to anyone, I know someone on here who has the Squareshooter and he picks up some decent channels without a problem.
post #6722 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

I guess winegard wants to jump into the ditch with Mohu and sell some snake oil foil & paper at huge mark up. .

As you know, which is evidenced here on this forum..people believe what they read on the internet and repeat it..it gets traction..and people make bad antenna choices..

My Squareshooter works great at my location.. I even get UNC-TV booming in off the side. And it passes muster with the house police as you say. Not a fan of WTVi for a lot of political reasons, tho David Rhew is doing an excellent job over there.
post #6723 of 7641
There is a guy on youtube, mr antenna or something like that, who claims to be an expert on antennas. So he has a Mohu Leaf that loses signal every time a truck drives down the street in front of his home. His expert advice for others who have chosen this "fine" antenna, is to move it to a different spot and/or open the window blinds or something like that. He gives similar advice when some other piece of equipment causes the signal to drop. LOL. He does get a lot of views since I guess, that is all that really matters.

So you are absolutely right. Winegard, Mohu, and the others who put out plastic antennas apparently have a very good business plan to exploit it.
post #6724 of 7641
Regarding the Winegard Flatwave Air outdoor.

Winegard still has not listed the gain numbers on the antenna and other important information.
post #6725 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

I would not recommend the Mohu to anyone, I know someone on here who has the Squareshooter and he picks up some decent channels without a problem.
The Flatwave Air is not similar to the Mohu. It is more of an updated version of the Squareshooter. The original Flatwave and Flatwave amped versions are the paper thin versions similar to Mohu. The Flatwave Air has gotten good reviews, and is a more discreet style outdoor antenna, and much thicker. And it uses their new low noise amp.
post #6726 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

The Flatwave Air is not similar to the Mohu. It is more of an updated version of the Squareshooter. The original Flatwave and Flatwave amped versions are the paper thin versions similar to Mohu. The Flatwave Air has gotten good reviews, and is a more discreet style outdoor antenna, and much thicker. And it uses their new low noise amp.

They took a flatwave razor, their mohu like antenna, added a reflector, stuck it in a plastic case, and charge $129.00 for it. It's not similar, it's the same. Here is a photo of the innards. Here is the $29.00 version. Flatwave Razor



You can't change physics. The reflector might help with multipath, but a 14x14 antenna isn't going to pick up that much even if it does cost $129. It certainly would be no match for that $39.99 (or something like that) HBU 33 that I put up earlier in the week.
post #6727 of 7641
Well the internal design of the Flatwave Air does indeed seem similar to their razor thin version. But it differs because it is inside the thicker case, and has the added reflector. And built in amp. I was told it was a successor to their Squareshooter, which I believe is some sort of bowtie inside a plastic case. But the HBU-33 is definitely more of a proven performer.
post #6728 of 7641
The built in amp and mini coax are what I consider another defect of this design. You should only consider an amp if your distribution network has a lot of loss. An amp will not make a dipole pick up more than physically possible and there isn't much possible with this foil stuck inside a plastic box. Furthermore the amp will also amplify multipath and add noise to your system which ironically makes it more difficult to receive stations. With this design you have no choice but to go through their tiny PCB based amp/balum combo whether powered or not. (what if you need more amp?)

Anyone looking at this antenna, and considering that it's meant to be mounted outside, relatively close to the TV would be much better served by the better built, better designed, Winegard Freevision. ($29.95) or even the RCA ANT751.
post #6729 of 7641
The biggest question but the easiest answer is the physics portion; The gain of antenna is directly related to it's directivity.

Any OTA reception Head-End (CATV/Broadcast,etc) will use multiple antennas to receive a reliable signal from a broadcaster. There is no magic antenna to pick up a 360-degree panoramic pattern. There maybe a few of us who live geographically in an ideal location where one antenna gives us this luxury but the rest of don't. also multiple elements and HAAT ( height above average terrain) rule in getting these signals.
post #6730 of 7641
Well, I really believe that it seems some people here perhaps don't understand the laws of physics. Hands on experience plus an understanding of the laws of physics trump internet surfing everytime.
post #6731 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

The built in amp and mini coax are what I consider another defect of this design. .

Remember Channel Master used to have the cartridge amps you installed into the front housing of the antennas like the ginormous 1160a. I never would use them as those antennas were usually mounted where access was difficult. I opted for a mast mounted one a bit lower where it could be accessed if/when a problem occurred.
post #6732 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post

Well, I really believe that it seems some people here perhaps don't understand the laws of physics. Hands on experience plus an understanding of the laws of physics trump internet surfing everytime.

And hours looking at an analyzer for SNR, Constellation errors,etc.
post #6733 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

The biggest question but the easiest answer is the physics portion; The gain of antenna is directly related to it's directivity.

Gain = (directivity) X (efficiency). The efficiency portion comes from the shape of the wire, it's length vs frequency resistance, and inductance. Most of the formulas assume a round wire. Flat foil is another matter but assumed to be less efficient.



The prudent antenna buyer doesn't need a degree in physics if they just remember three things.
  1. Only metal receives RF. If you can't see the metal receiving the signal, don't buy it.
  2. Only metal receives RF. Don't pay for a lot of plastic & paper.
  3. Don't buy an antenna that includes an amp.

Just those three things will weed out 95% of the (bad) designs out there.
Edited by blackcat6 - 11/23/13 at 5:13am
post #6734 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

The biggest question but the easiest answer is the physics portion; The gain of antenna is directly related to it's directivity.

Gain = (directivity) X (efficiency). The efficiency portion comes from the shape of the wire, it's length vs frequency resistance, and inductance. Most of the formulas assume a round wire. Flat foil is another matter but assumed to be less efficient.



The prudent antenna buyer doesn't need a degree in physics if they just remember three things.
  1. Only metal receives RF. If you can't see the metal receiving the signal, don't buy it.
  2. Only metal receives RF. Don't pay for a lot of plastic & paper.
  3. Don't buy an antenna that includes an amp.

Just those three things will weed out 95% of the designs out there.

There you are, simple and direct to the point of no magic cures reception problems.
post #6735 of 7641
Ahh nice. WCCB has local news at 6 tonight. The rest have abdicated their late breaking eyewitness on your side whatever can count on us, news role for sports.
post #6736 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

Ahh nice. WCCB has local news at 6 tonight. The rest have abdicated their late breaking eyewitness on your side whatever can count on us, news role for sports.

That's funny! I want my evening car dealer ads!
post #6737 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamstang View Post

That's funny! I want my evening car dealer ads!

Here's something to hold you over. A bit more sophisticated too. smile.gif

post #6738 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

Here's something to hold you over. A bit more sophisticated too. smile.gif


Mike's pretty good....but his cap gives him away.
post #6739 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

Here's something to hold you over. A bit more sophisticated too. smile.gif


Thanks. Definitely typical advertising these days. Stupid and loud sells!
post #6740 of 7641
I would welcome Mike compared to what we have here.

For the most part, I've found that it's just easier to watch the news, if I watch it, on a 30 minute delay. MythTV automatically deletes the screeching harlots/gold diggers/girlfriends, mouthy kids, bubbas and other Idiotic approaches to hawking autos in this area. It seems to have no trouble at all weeding out these commercials. Hopefully soon, they will make it work for live TV. (though I almost never watch that now)
post #6741 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

I would welcome Mike compared to what we have here.

For the most part, I've found that it's just easier to watch the news, if I watch it, on a 30 minute delay. )

Same here. The 30 second skip button is wonderful thing...That also handles any problems with commercial audio levels.. smile.gif
post #6742 of 7641
I was in Sears on Sunday and noticed they have some of those paper thin leaf style antennas for sale under their house brand label Alphaline, or something like that. They appear to be the Winegard versions. And they also had the Alphaline inline amp for $39, which also appears to be the Winegard LNA-100 version. That amp has low noise specs and has gotten good reviews from engineers tested. The antennas are overpriced and have that already debatable performance. The same Winegard version of that Flatwave razor antenna is $48 at Costco compared to $79 at Sears.
post #6743 of 7641
Goodness. I wasn't aware there were any Sears left in Charlotte. Last time I remember walking in one was at Eastland around 1992 or so. Bought a 2 stroke lawnmower which I believe the environmentalists have since banned, like American made light bulbs, from further sale. That lawnmower still works fine. Sears, not so fine.

I probably wouldn't consider any local big box store for an antenna. They just don't seem to be into it unless it's something cheap made of plastic. When I put up my Mom's aerial last week, the local HD in MB didn't have anything but some leaf antennas & 1 Freevision. They carried nothing else for putting up an antenna. (sad for a "hardware" store) Good thing I had already gotten it all off the Internet and all I needed from HD was a 8' steel pipe which I got from the electrical dept.

(I will give Radioshak a nod for carrying supplies but they vary greatly amongst stores.)
post #6744 of 7641
Mom says the HBU 33 is receiving without issue even in this nasty weather we are having on the East coast. It seems to be quite a good performer vs cost (~$45) since it seems to have no issue at all with picking up VHF-Hi & UHF between 60-75 miles away. This is with no-amp and mounted on the top of a $6.25 1.25 steel pipe and a $9.25 side mounting kit.
post #6745 of 7641
While moving forward in my guide to schedule some Christmas recordings I noticed that WCCB has a listing for Davidson at Charlotte, College Basketball on December 4th. Maybe our friends at WCCB can enlighten us as to what their basketball plans are? I looked online, but can't find any Press Release about this... Glad to see the LOCAL programming continuing.

Actually this is a big week for local programming... Thursday we get the Asheville Holiday Parade on WLOS and the Novant Thanksgiving Day Parade on WBTV. I wonder if either of those will be in HD this year, or at least widescreen SD?
post #6746 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpalmer2k View Post

While moving forward in my guide to schedule some Christmas recordings I noticed that WCCB has a listing for Davidson at Charlotte, College Basketball on December 4th. Maybe our friends at WCCB can enlighten us as to what their basketball plans are? I looked online, but can't find any Press Release about this... Glad to see the LOCAL programming continuing.

Yep..howza bout that..December 4th @ 7pm.. is Davidson @ UNCC.. December 8th @ 2pm is UNCC @ Appalachain (SD Widescreen).. then more in January....smile.gif
post #6747 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

Mom says the HBU 33 is receiving without issue even in this nasty weather we are having on the East coast. It seems to be quite a good performer vs cost (~$45) since it seems to have no issue at all with picking up VHF-Hi & UHF between 60-75 miles away. This is with no-amp and mounted on the top of a $6.25 1.25 steel pipe and a $9.25 side mounting kit.

Good to hear. HBU33 is definitely getting good reviews around the web.

Thinking about pulling down my Winegard 9032 yagi and buying a HBU33. Got a pbs station to the north at 34 miles, and my yagi is ponted southeast. Most of the time the pbs station(real 17) comes in just fine execpt during bad weather or temperature inversions. I am going to buy a rotor, but I think a smaller antenna like the HBU33 would be less strain on a rotor than the 114 inch 9032.

Here is my tvfool. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46aef492690a4c
Edited by snippits75 - 11/26/13 at 12:49pm
post #6748 of 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

Mom says the HBU 33 is receiving without issue even in this nasty weather we are having on the East coast. It seems to be quite a good performer vs cost (~$45) since it seems to have no issue at all with picking up VHF-Hi & UHF between 60-75 miles away. This is with no-amp and mounted on the top of a $6.25 1.25 steel pipe and a $9.25 side mounting kit.

That is good news. You have provided a lot of good hands on, real world and factual experience info for this installation. Tho you really should post it in the Myrtle beach thread as well so as to be a help to anyone there. smile.gif
post #6749 of 7641
I think in years past the Thanksgiving parade on WBTV has been widescreen SD. Perhaps they can use some of their Raycom mobile broadcast trucks to show it in HD, unless they have ball games that day. But it will probably be in SD again since they almost cancelled the parade this year until the last minute.
post #6750 of 7641
Yes they still have some Sears around. But a sorry business model and bad customer service. I can truly see how they are losing to Belk and Macy's on the higher end and Walmart and Target on the lower end.
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