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Charlotte, NC - OTA - Page 234

post #6991 of 7649
I think WCNC acquired all the blue hues available in the greater Charlotte area. WCCB may have to settle on green.

biggrin.gif
post #6992 of 7649
Indeed. Though not nearly as eyeball assaulting as WCNC, WBTV also uses a lot of blue. They recently changed their logo to blue/white version. (they had blue before, but the red 3 is gone)
post #6993 of 7649
Have you ever seen anything as awful as the new Fox46 news at 10:00? I live near the station, and had hoped to make it my local news station hereafter. But in watching it last night, I never conceived something could be as horrible. It's like somebody decided to sit at their kitchen table with a handheld camera, and to a local news program. We will probably be told that this format is how it's being done now, and that stations all over the country are moving in that direction. Those are cliche's, and it doesn't change the fact that Fox is embarrassing itself, and if this is all they can do, they should not have bothered trying.
post #6994 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by OTA-DVR-guy View Post

Have you ever seen anything as awful as the new Fox46 news at 10:00? I live near the station, and had hoped to make it my local news station hereafter. But in watching it last night, I never conceived something could be as horrible. It's like somebody decided to sit at their kitchen table with a handheld camera, and to a local news program. We will probably be told that this format is how it's being done now, and that stations all over the country are moving in that direction. Those are cliche's, and it doesn't change the fact that Fox is embarrassing itself, and if this is all they can do, they should not have bothered trying.
I tend to agree. But hopefully it will eventually be overhauled. Because like I said before, FOX stations do produce strong newscasts such as FOX-8 in Greensboro and FOX-5 in DC. At some point I hope they will adopt that model for a strong standard newscast.
post #6995 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by eacalhoun View Post

My 17-year-old son does NOT like WJZY's 10pm news - like ANY individual's tastes, one person doesn't represent the entire demographic, but he and I were both equally complaining about their newscast. I thought it would at least have SOME resemblance to Atlanta's Fox 5 - NOT. We sampled it the first night and switched back to WCCB during the middle of WJZY's weather segment. Regarding WCCB, I would like to see some of the red "scrubbed" from the graphics because it still looks a bit Fox-ish. CW green, however, I think it a terrible-looking option - maybe something in blue? Anyway if WJZY continues down this news-format path, WCCB has absolutely nothing to worry about.

Eric
Yes FOX-5 in Atlanta is another one of their strong stations. So I think it is a mistake for them not to adopt the format of their stronger stations at WJZY. Hopefully they will realize this and make a change. And they need to use the FOX-46 logo like the WBTV newscast did. "My FOX Carolinas" doesn't really tell you what channel you are watching and can lead to confusion with WHNS FOX Carolina in GSP.
post #6996 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
 
 
And they [WJZY] need to use the FOX-46 logo like the WBTV newscast did. "My FOX Carolinas" doesn't really tell you what channel you are watching and can lead to confusion with WHNS FOX Carolina in GSP.

 

Why not just call WJZY "Fox Charlotte" and call WHNS "Fox Asheville"?

What is this GSP of which you speak? It's Asheville that people want to hear about, right? :)

post #6997 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post

Why not just call WJZY "Fox Charlotte" and call WHNS "Fox Asheville"?
What is this GSP of which you speak? It's Asheville that people want to hear about, right? smile.gif
WCCB was known as FOX Charlotte so they don't want to duplicate that. And they want to serve the greater Carolinas market, not just Charlotte. So FOX-46 Carolinas is fine because it includes the channel number in the logo and is not confused with WHNS FOX Carolina. So they should use their FOX-46 branding on the newscast as well, as "My FOX Carolinas" is not a strong identity. One central brand is better for marketing and promotional purposes, so they should stick with FOX-46 for the news. It is used on all other branding for WJZY ... GSP is the Greenville-Spartanburg market in SC, which also includes Asheville in NC. WHNS (RF21) may be licensed to Asheville but the studios are next to I-85 at the Pelham Rd. exit in Greenville.
post #6998 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

WCCB was known as FOX Charlotte so they don't want to duplicate that. And they want to serve the greater Carolinas market, not just Charlotte. So FOX-46 Carolinas is fine because it includes the channel number in the logo and is not confused with WHNS FOX Carolina. So they should use their FOX-46 branding on the newscast as well, as "My FOX Carolinas" is not a strong identity. One central brand is better for marketing and promotional purposes, so they should stick with FOX-46 for the news. It is used on all other branding for WJZY ... GSP is the Greenville-Spartanburg market in SC, which also includes Asheville in NC. WHNS (RF21) may be licensed to Asheville but the studios are next to I-85 at the Pelham Rd. exit in Greenville.

Asheville was the former COL of WHNS - until sometime in the 90s, I think. Greenville is now its COL. It's seems rare that TV stations change their COL (or are even permitted to), but I suppose since WLOS, WUNF, and WYCW are all full-power TV stations licensed to Asheville the FCC didn't see it as "loss of service".

Bob or Ted - feel free to elaborate or correct my thinking on this.

Eric
post #6999 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post

Why not just call WJZY "Fox Charlotte" and call WHNS "Fox Asheville"?
What is this GSP of which you speak? It's Asheville that people want to hear about, right? smile.gif
GSP is the Greenville-Spartanburg market in SC, which also includes Asheville in NC. WHNS (RF21) may be licensed to Asheville but the studios are next to I-85 at the Pelham Rd. exit in Greenville.

 

I was just being a bit cheeky, taking the perspective of a stereotypical central North Carolinian who would be reluctant to admit that SC even exists, except perhaps for the vacation destinations of Myrtle Beach and Charleston.

 

WHNS is licensed to Greenville, SC, and it may not even be a particularly strong player in the city of Asheville.

WJZY is licensed to Belmont, NC. So, I guess one could say that WJZY has stronger ties to NC, while WHNS has stronger ties to SC.

 

I'm not sure that many stations want to use their legacy channel numbers for marketing purposes anymore.

Here in the Raleigh DMA, WTVD calls itself ABC11, but WNCN has dropped the NBC-17 branding. WRAL still calls itself "Channel 5", but the WRAL call letters are used much more than the "channel 5" designation for marketing purposes. Sometimes it uses "WRAL 5". The FOX affiliate, WRAZ, almost always calls itself "FOX50" and downplays the WRAZ call letters. The UNC-TV system carries the same programming throughout the state, so it calls itself UNC-TV rather than WUNC Channel 4.

post #7000 of 7649
I moved within Boone, NC into a house with a pre-installed huge antenna mounted on the deck about 15 feet above the ground. Through it we get several PBS stations beautifully, and an NBC and a CBS affiliate. Where WJZY [should?] be, at 14.1 or 2 - I don't remember which, I get the message "No signal," though when I run the TV through the channels it picks up enough of some signal to note 14.1 and 14.2 as channels.

I run a Mac Mini as a media center with Amazon Prime and Netflix. If I could pick up that Fox channel I might be able to continue completely cable/satellite free. When I went to tvfool.com, I got this information. Honestly, I don't know what I'm doing with this antenna. I may be able to figure out what kind it is, but I'm not sure. I ran new cable from it to the house, but that's it. Here is the link to the tvfool.com page for my location.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae97cbb77e5b

I'm not an expert, or even adept at any of this. I know some of you are experts. If you have any ideas about how to get WJZY, I'd like to hear them. Or if it is impossible, let me know. Thanks!
post #7001 of 7649
Based on that report, I bet you're seeing NBC on 5-1, CBS on 11-1, and PBS on 26-1. And nothing else.

WJZY would be on 46-1, and it looks tough, but not necessarily impossible. Do you know which way the antenna is aimed? Can you provide a photo?

- Trip
post #7002 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayle28607 View Post

I moved within Boone, NC into a house with a pre-installed huge antenna mounted on the deck about 15 feet above the ground. Through it we get several PBS stations beautifully, and an NBC and a CBS affiliate. Where WJZY [should?] be, at 14.1 or 2 - I don't remember which, I get the message "No signal," though when I run the TV through the channels it picks up enough of some signal to note 14.1 and 14.2 as channels.

I run a Mac Mini as a media center with Amazon Prime and Netflix. If I could pick up that Fox channel I might be able to continue completely cable/satellite free. When I went to tvfool.com, I got this information. Honestly, I don't know what I'm doing with this antenna. I may be able to figure out what kind it is, but I'm not sure. I ran new cable from it to the house, but that's it. Here is the link to the tvfool.com page for my location.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d46ae97cbb77e5b

I'm not an expert, or even adept at any of this. I know some of you are experts. If you have any ideas about how to get WJZY, I'd like to hear them. Or if it is impossible, let me know. Thanks!

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you mention 14.1 and 14.2.

WJZY is virtual channel 46 (RF 47), and it is over 60 miles from you.

It is also 140 degrees away from the direction of the three stations you are receiving well

(W41D-LD, the PBS transmitter near Boone; WCYB(NBC) in Bristol, Virginia, and WJHL(CBS) in Johnston City).

 

If you're looking for a FOX affiliate that you can receive OTA, you may have better luck getting WEMT on RF 38. It is a bit weaker at your location than WJZY is, but WEMT is at roughly the same azimuth as the stations that you are already receiving, and the transmitter is thirty miles closer to you than the WJZY transmitter.

 

For either FOX station, reception could be very difficult, and you might need an amplifier to have any chance at all. You're just not in a very good location for receiving FOX. It seems that FOX is a bit behind the other networks in terms of reaching tough locations for OTA. That could be because the FOX network didn't get started until the mid 1980's, and it concentrated on the major markets.

 

Also, 15 ft above the ground is not very high for antenna.

If you could get it up to 20 or 30 feet, things might improve considerably.

 

 

The following link shows the subchannels for a lot of the stations in your area.

Click "Expand All" to see all of the subchannel details.

 

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wcyb

post #7003 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Based on that report, I bet you're seeing NBC on 5-1, CBS on 11-1, and PBS on 26-1. And nothing else.

WJZY would be on 46-1, and it looks tough, but not necessarily impossible. Do you know which way the antenna is aimed? Can you provide a photo?

- Trip

I'll get out a compass tomorrow, but it points roughly SW. I am on a mountain, with the antenna pointed toward a saddle on the other side of the valley below me. I'll get a photo tomorrow, too. You are probably right about 46-1. I was doing channel numbers from memory. Sorry! redface.gif
post #7004 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post



For either FOX station, reception could be very difficult, and you might need an amplifier to have any chance at all. ......

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wcyb

Actually adding an amplifier will guarantee that he won't receive those stations as you have to subtract the amp's NM from the NM of the signal, which is already negative. If anything, the trick is going to be to put up an antenna with a short enough cable and other losses so that an amp won't be needed.

i.e. an amp will make it even more difficult to receive. (I know, that sounds counter intuitive)


I'm going to say that based on that report, reliable reception of WJZY is probably a no-go without putting a lot of effort into it, and it will be subject to a lot of weather issues.
Edited by blackcat6 - 1/4/14 at 2:53pm
post #7005 of 7649
There are folks in parts of the NC mountains that get most of the Charlotte channels. I guess it depends upon what side of the mountain you are on and if you are blocked by hills or trees. WJZY, WBTV, and WCNC all broadcast from 2000ft towers at a similar location near Dallas, NC. WBTV may be easier to receive as they are the only station with a top-mounted omnidirectional antenna. Also, WCCB and WSOC have translators in Burke County. A good UHF antenna and preamp is what you may need. Such as a 91XG and a Kitztech 200, or perhaps a Winegard LNA-200. FOX will be RF47 for WJZY 46.1. But as suggested you should also get Johnson City/Bristol stations. Not sure about WHNS-21 FOX Carolina or any of the other Asheville/Greenville/Spartanburg channels. Perhaps 13-WLOS from Asheville.
post #7006 of 7649
After looking at that TV Fool report, it looks like the AVL/GSP stations are unlikely. Perhaps the Tennessee FOX station may be the best possibility at 36 miles. But some of the Charlotte channels may be possible.
post #7007 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post



For either FOX station, reception could be very difficult, and you might need an amplifier to have any chance at all. ......

http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=wcyb

Actually adding an amplifier will guarantee that he won't receive those stations as you have to subtract the amp's NM from the NM of the signal, which is already negative. If anything, the trick is going to be to put up an antenna with a short enough cable and other losses so that an amp won't be needed.

i.e. an amp will make it even more difficult to receive. (I know, that sounds counter intuitive)

I'm going to say that based on that report, reliable reception of WJZY is probably a no-go without putting a lot of effort into it, and it will be subject to a lot of weather issues.

I'm speculating, of course (and I don't know how directional the antenna is), but based on the Boone resident saying that the reception for WCYB (RF 5) and WJHL (RF11) was pretty stable, even though the antenna is not pointed toward those transmitters, I'm thinking that the signals coming from the towers on that mountain in the Cherokee National Forest may actually be delivering stronger signals to Boone than the TVFool report shows, but the resident's antenna is pointed to the SW, toward Asheville, so it is not taking full advantage of the signals coming from the northwest. The WCYB and WJHL signals are strong enough to be received even though the antenna is pointed toward Asheville, but other signals, such as WEMT, are too weak.

 

TVFool's algorithms are good, but they are not infallible. So, if WEMT's transmitter is located on the same mountain as the WCYB transmitter, perhaps WEMT is delivering a viable signal to Boone, but only for antennas that are pointed toward the west or northwest. If the resident could raise the height of the antenna a bit and point it to the west or northwest, toward Holston Mountain, it might be possible to pick up WEMT, even though its UHF frequency might not be as good in a mountainous region as the VHF signals from WCYB and WJHL are.

 

The mystery to me, though, is why the ABC affiliate, WKPT, also shows up so weak in the TVFool report.

 

I generally figure that it is best to first aim the antenna toward the closest transmitters (unless there is an obstruction), and then experiment from there if more distant markets are sought. The Johnson City market in TN seems to be the market to aim for, unless the person just really wants to receive NC stations.

 

It seems to me that in a mountainous region it would be very hard to consistently receive a digital signal from over 60 miles away. That's why I'm skeptical about a Boone resident being able to receive the Charlotte stations. at least without  taking extraordinary measures.


Edited by veedon - 1/4/14 at 4:25pm
post #7008 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post



Actually adding an amplifier will guarantee that he won't receive those stations as you have to subtract the amp's NM from the NM of the signal, which is already negative. If anything, the trick is going to be to put up an antenna with a short enough cable and other losses so that an amp won't be needed.


i.e. an amp will make it even more difficult to receive. (I know, that sounds counter intuitive)

I'm going to say that based on that report, reliable reception of WJZY is probably a no-go without putting a lot of effort into it, and it will be subject to a lot of weather issues.
I'm speculating, of course (and I don't know how directional the antenna is), but based on the Boone resident saying that the reception for WCYB (RF 5) and WJHL (RF11) was pretty stable, even though the antenna is not pointed toward those transmitters, I'm thinking that the signals coming from the towers on that mountain in the Cherokee National Forest may actually be delivering stronger signals to Boone than the TVFool report shows, but the resident's antenna is pointed to the SW, toward Asheville, so it is not taking full advantage of the signals coming from the northwest. The WCYB and WJHL signals are strong enough to be received even though the antenna is pointed toward Asheville, but other signals, such as WEMT, are too weak.



TVFool's algorithms are good, but they are not infallible. So, if WEMT's transmitter is located on the same mountain as the WCYB transmitter, perhaps WEMT is delivering a viable signal to Boone, but only for antennas that are pointed toward the west or northwest. If the resident could raise the height of the antenna a bit and point it to the west or northwest, toward Holston Mountain, it might be possible to pick up WEMT, even though its UHF frequency might not be as good in a mountainous region as the VHF signals from WCYB and WJHL are.

The mystery to me, though, is why the ABC affiliate, WKPT, also shows up so weak in the TVFool report.

I generally figure that it is best to first aim the antenna toward the closest transmitters (unless there is an obstruction), and then experiment from there if more distant markets are sought. The Johnson City market in TN seems to be the market to aim for, unless the person just really wants to receive NC stations.

It seems to me that it in a mountainous region it would be very hard to consistently receive a digital signal from over 60 miles away. That's why I'm skeptical about a Boone resident being able to receive the Charlotte stations. at least without  taking extraordinary measures.

I have some friends in Boone and they pick up TN very easily, Charlotte and Greensboro are not very good up there. We played around for two days trying to move the antenna (30' up) and agreed to have reliability at the end.
post #7009 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

I have some friends in Boone and they pick up TN very easily, Charlotte and Greensboro are not very good up there. We played around for two days trying to move the antenna (30' up) and agreed to have reliability at the end.
Boone is officially part of the Charlotte DMA, although it may indeed be easier to get Tennessee signals there.
post #7010 of 7649
I posted awhile back about doing some playing with a DTV receiver at an overlook between Boone and Blowing Rock on the Blue Ridge Parkway. I was able to get all of Charlotte, most of Greensboro, and most of GSP.

On that same trip I tried the receiver in the hotel room in Boone, 4th floor, next to the window with a southeastern expsoure - I got NOTHING AT ALL. WBTV scanned in and I got it to blip once, but that was it. No amount of fiddling with the rabbit ears would make it come back.
post #7011 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

I have some friends in Boone and they pick up TN very easily, Charlotte and Greensboro are not very good up there. We played around for two days trying to move the antenna (30' up) and agreed to have reliability at the end.
Boone is officially part of the Charlotte DMA, although it may indeed be easier to get Tennessee signals there.

On paper it may look good: http://transition.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/Charlotte_NC.pdf

But I think we all know what the limitations are on here....smile.gif
post #7012 of 7649
Here in eastern NC I gained great coverage from almost all the Raleigh stations after the transition - sometimes those green dots can be true.

I find it hard to believe a single one of those are true in Avery, Ashe, and Watauga counties though. Either you have the elevation and exposure for LoS or you have multipath.
post #7013 of 7649
The bad thing about TV fool for the mountains is it just can't figure in exactly how the mountains affect signals. I live in Mitchell county about the same elevation and distances from Charlotte and the tri cities as boone is, I also am in a deep valley. TV fool shows no sign at all that I should receive Charlotte stations but I receive almost all Charlotte stations except wsoc and wjzy, the only one even listed is wbtv and it is listed at -28 dbs but I receive it at 100 percent most times, I am 60 miles even from the Dallas towers. The tri cities stations will not start to come in, reason being for this is that there are generally much bigger mountains between here and Tennessee than there is toward Charlotte, the spine of the mountains is on the state line usually 5 to 6000 foot mountains while the valleys here are around 3000 feet. I installed an antenna this week with wbtv being the only one listed from Charlotte and it was -30 some dbs but I was able to receive all major Charlotte stations except wsoc, this was nearly 80 miles from towers and in a valley. Another thing in the mountains is height is not always important, we depend a lot on signals reflecting off of mountains and the ground so almost every antenna I've installed here has came in better close to the ground than up high and also slightly tilted forward. Wcyb from bristol is able to overcome the mountains usually due to it being low vhf which bends better, overall it just comes down to you needing a good low saddle in a mountain close to you to get signal over.
post #7014 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

On paper it may look good: http://transition.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/Charlotte_NC.pdf

But I think we all know what the limitations are on here....smile.gif
On those FCC maps, WBTV has the widest coverage area, with WJZY and WCNC very close. But WCNC has a bit of a null to the west, with the coverage line midway in Spartanburg County, with WBTV and WJZY just reaching into Greenville County. I suppose this is to prevent interference with WHNS RF-21. However, I normally receive WCNC and WJZY at about 80-85%, with WBTV being the strongest at 100%. So despite the null, WCNC does reach into Greenville County. And interestingly, WMYT-55 does provide an equally strong signal into Greenville County, even though the maps don't indicate it. The Charlotte signals are most likely received in the northern half of Greenville County above Laurens Rd. And on paper, WBTV, WCNC, and WJZY should reach into Boone. But as we know the terrain factors in the mountains do play a role. But there is a poster in the Asheville area who is able to receive Charlotte signals from both the Charlotte and Dallas locations.
post #7015 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by wncbraves View Post

The bad thing about TV fool for the mountains is it just can't figure in exactly how the mountains affect signals. I live in Mitchell county about the same elevation and distances from Charlotte and the tri cities as boone is, I also am in a deep valley. TV fool shows no sign at all that I should receive Charlotte stations but I receive almost all Charlotte stations except wsoc and wjzy, the only one even listed is wbtv and it is listed at -28 dbs but I receive it at 100 percent most times, I am 60 miles even from the Dallas towers. The tri cities stations will not start to come in, reason being for this is that there are generally much bigger mountains between here and Tennessee than there is toward Charlotte, the spine of the mountains is on the state line usually 5 to 6000 foot mountains while the valleys here are around 3000 feet. I installed an antenna this week with wbtv being the only one listed from Charlotte and it was -30 some dbs but I was able to receive all major Charlotte stations except wsoc, this was nearly 80 miles from towers and in a valley. Another thing in the mountains is height is not always important, we depend a lot on signals reflecting off of mountains and the ground so almost every antenna I've installed here has came in better close to the ground than up high and also slightly tilted forward. Wcyb from bristol is able to overcome the mountains usually due to it being low vhf which bends better, overall it just comes down to you needing a good low saddle in a mountain close to you to get signal over.

TVFool uses the same model (Longley-Rice--the "Irregular Terrain Model" or "ITM") that the FCC and RabbitEars both use, and it does not properly deal with knife-edge diffraction, which allows for reception in mountainous areas beyond what you might normally expect. There was some work done to improve those cases resulting in the "ITWOM" (can't remember what that stands for) but when I tested it, it fixed the knife-edges but everything else was wrong.

- Trip
post #7016 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayle28607 View Post

I'll get out a compass tomorrow, but it points roughly SW. I am on a mountain, with the antenna pointed toward a saddle on the other side of the valley below me. I'll get a photo tomorrow, too. You are probably right about 46-1. I was doing channel numbers from memory. Sorry! redface.gif

I'm bringing in wood for the stove for a "severe weather event" so I'm not going to take the antenna photo today, plus, if I did it today you couldn't see anything - too much fog ahead of the 0 degree F storm we are supposed to get. Given the orientation of the house, the antenna may be pointed south. Still have to check it. (Single mom, so busy getting things together so we can relax during the storm.)

I did copy down the channels I currently have, and what I see on the screen about them. All of the channels with call letters that are in the "available" category are very stable with an amazing picture now that I ran a new cable from the box on the house to the antenna. I appreciate the input you all have offered so far. It sounds as though I already get a lot more channels than I should expect to have!

3-1 WBTV-DT (CBS)
3-2 Bounce
9-1 WSOC (ABC)
9-2 WSOC-WX
24 ??? (Shadows and snow)
26-1 UNC-TV (PBS)
26-2 UNC-KD
26-3 UNC-EX
36-1 WCNC-HD (NBC)
36-2 WCNC-LW (LWN)
46-1 WJZY "Channel not available"
46-2 Ant-TV "Channel not available"
post #7017 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by wncbraves View Post

The bad thing about TV fool for the mountains is it just can't figure in exactly how the mountains affect signals. I live in Mitchell county about the same elevation and distances from Charlotte and the tri cities as boone is, I also am in a deep valley. TV fool shows no sign at all that I should receive Charlotte stations but I receive almost all Charlotte stations except wsoc and wjzy, the only one even listed is wbtv and it is listed at -28 dbs but I receive it at 100 percent most times, I am 60 miles even from the Dallas towers. The tri cities stations will not start to come in, reason being for this is that there are generally much bigger mountains between here and Tennessee than there is toward Charlotte, the spine of the mountains is on the state line usually 5 to 6000 foot mountains while the valleys here are around 3000 feet. I installed an antenna this week with wbtv being the only one listed from Charlotte and it was -30 some dbs but I was able to receive all major Charlotte stations except wsoc, this was nearly 80 miles from towers and in a valley. Another thing in the mountains is height is not always important, we depend a lot on signals reflecting off of mountains and the ground so almost every antenna I've installed here has came in better close to the ground than up high and also slightly tilted forward. Wcyb from bristol is able to overcome the mountains usually due to it being low vhf which bends better, overall it just comes down to you needing a good low saddle in a mountain close to you to get signal over.

Interesting. This may be why I get the channels I get...
post #7018 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post

On paper it may look good: http://transition.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_current/Charlotte_NC.pdf

But I think we all know what the limitations are on here....smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

On those FCC maps, WBTV has the widest coverage area, with WJZY and WCNC very close. But WCNC has a bit of a null to the west, with the coverage line midway in Spartanburg County, with WBTV and WJZY just reaching into Greenville County. I suppose this is to prevent interference with WHNS RF-21. However, I normally receive WCNC and WJZY at about 80-85%, with WBTV being the strongest at 100%. So despite the null, WCNC does reach into Greenville County. And interestingly, WMYT-55 does provide an equally strong signal into Greenville County, even though the maps don't indicate it. The Charlotte signals are most likely received in the northern half of Greenville County above Laurens Rd. And on paper, WBTV, WCNC, and WJZY should reach into Boone. But as we know the terrain factors in the mountains do play a role. But there is a poster in the Asheville area who is able to receive Charlotte signals from both the Charlotte and Dallas locations.

While I do work for the FCC on this exact thing, the following opinions and statements are mine and not those of the FCC or my co-workers there:

To fully understand the maps, you have to also understand what maps like that show, and you'll suddenly see why it can be less illustrative than it initially appears. OET Bulletin 69 describes how TV station coverage is predicted, and that bulletin is implemented in the older FLR software as well as the new TVStudy software that I work on. The first step of the process is to "project" the contour, which on those maps, are the black lines that you see (the dashed line being the analog contour and the solid line being the digital contour). The contours serve as boundaries; beyond the contour, any actual reception that may exist is ignored. The maps on RabbitEars exist to demonstrate exactly how ridiculous this is, especially since the contours were thought up in the 1950's and are still done the same way, only taking into account terrain between 3.2 and 16.1 km from the station in question. For example, see how poorly the contours match the actual coverage of one of the Roanoke, VA stations, which has an omni antenna: http://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php?appid=1320755&map=Y

Then, you break the coverage area up into 4 sq km squares (2 km on a side) called "cells" and choose an evaluation point for each cell. If there is no population in a cell, the evaluation point is at the center. Otherwise, it is a weighted average of the location of the population. But, of course, that doesn't necessarily mean there's population at that exact point--which could be on top of a hill or at the bottom of a lake.

Then you make a bunch of assumptions about the parameters needed for reception and use that to do a point-to-point analysis of each evaluation point with regard to the transmitter site, taking into account similar analyses for interfering stations. In the case of those maps, it was done twice, once each for the analog and digital. Among these is that the receiving antenna is outdoors at 9 meters above ground, with a certain amount of gain and a certain antenna pattern, that 15 dB of desired signal is required to overcome an undesired (interfering) signal, etc.

My point is this: When you look at the map of WCNC, and you see the area where the analog contour is outside the digital contour, at the western end, and you see all the yellow diamonds, those areas that had service and lost it? Because the contour creates a limitation on the area evaluated, those areas will ALWAYS lose service because they're never even evaluated for digital coverage. If you measured out to the analog contour, you may very well find that those evaluation points still can receive the station, but because the contour ends before them, they "lose service." The contours don't really reflect reality.

To really know what your reception will be, a point-to-point analysis like you get from TVFool is a lot better than the generalized FCC maps are.

I hope that wasn't too much information. smile.gif

- Trip
post #7019 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayle28607 View Post

I'm bringing in wood for the stove for a "severe weather event" so I'm not going to take the antenna photo today, plus, if I did it today you couldn't see anything - too much fog ahead of the 0 degree F storm we are supposed to get. Given the orientation of the house, the antenna may be pointed south. Still have to check it. (Single mom, so busy getting things together so we can relax during the storm.)

I did copy down the channels I currently have, and what I see on the screen about them. All of the channels with call letters that are in the "available" category are very stable with an amazing picture now that I ran a new cable from the box on the house to the antenna. I appreciate the input you all have offered so far. It sounds as though I already get a lot more channels than I should expect to have!

3-1 WBTV-DT (CBS)
3-2 Bounce
9-1 WSOC (ABC)
9-2 WSOC-WX
24 ??? (Shadows and snow)
26-1 UNC-TV (PBS)
26-2 UNC-KD
26-3 UNC-EX
36-1 WCNC-HD (NBC)
36-2 WCNC-LW (LWN)
46-1 WJZY "Channel not available"
46-2 Ant-TV "Channel not available"

That is fascinating and unexpected. 24 is WLNN: http://www.mtn18.com/

Do you have an amplifier in your setup somewhere? If you're seeing those signals, then you're probably not that far off from seeing WJZY and WCCB as well, if not several others, also. If you don't have an amplifier, adding one at the antenna may just do the trick.

- Trip
post #7020 of 7649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

... you're probably not that far off from seeing ... WCCB as well- Trip

Maybe / Maybe not...We have some interference at times in certain areas up there from WKPT Kingsport. For one Charter headend especially.
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