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Fabric Frames - Page 6

post #151 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowers View Post

Thanks Paul,

I like the red frames and no columns, it gives your theater a simple clean look. Can you post some more photos so we can see the rest of the theater.

Greg

More pics are in the process, camera troubles

Paul
post #152 of 897
Thread Starter 
To help in answering all the PMs and other question about the "Fabric Frames" I have gathered all the most commonly questions and created an FAQ at the following link:

Gregs Fabric Frames FAQ
post #153 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowers View Post

Thanks Paul,

I like the red frames and no columns, it gives your theater a simple clean look. Can you post some more photos so we can see the rest of the theater.

Greg

Here is a pic of the side wall before I install the seating.

Paul
LL
post #154 of 897
back wall and other side wall

Paul
LL
LL
post #155 of 897
O.K. Guys

I cut my 1/2" MDF in strips of 1 1/2 wide. Now I tried to screw them in together to make it 1" thick, but wood screws don't work well with MDF. I did a second frame with wood glue, and that seems to hold pretty good, but it takes a long time for the glue to really take hold.

I see GPowers used wood as a backing to MDF, maybe thats a way of getting the wood screw to grab better?

Also when the frame is finished and wrapped in GOM, Use a nail gun and shoot right thru the 1" frame, and thru the 1/2" drywall, and hopefully if I get lucky enough I might hit a stud? I would rather try avoiding the use of glue on the walls. So trying to think of a different way here.

Is there a different way of getting this frame on the wall?

Ozzie
post #156 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswald Pascual View Post

Is there a different way of getting this frame on the wall?

Ozzie

Ozzie,

I am planning to use a French Cleat to attach my panels. I want the ability to remove them if needed to add/remove absorbtion easily. Here is a link to a PDF that explains how they are designed.

French Cleat

Steve
post #157 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oswald Pascual View Post

O.K. Guys
I did a second frame with wood glue, and that seems to hold pretty good, but it takes a long time for the glue to really take hold.

I see GPowers used wood as a backing to MDF, maybe thats a way of getting the wood screw to grab better?

Also when the frame is finished and wrapped in GOM, Use a nail gun and shoot right thru the 1" frame, and thru the 1/2" drywall, and hopefully if I get lucky enough I might hit a stud? I would rather try avoiding the use of glue on the walls. So trying to think of a different way here.

Is there a different way of getting this frame on the wall?

Ozzie

When glueing the frames together i used small brads. Always making sure to shoot the brads from front to back. The one inch brads just break the surface of the wood. So you do not want the part of the frame that will be covered with GOM to have these brads sticking through.

I used two inch brads to apply the frames to the wall. These were the longest I could find. The heads of Finishing nails were too big. So with a two inch brad you are never going to hit a stud. One inch frame, 5/8 inch drywall, 1/2 drywall is too thick at 2 1/8 inches thick. That is why i used liquid nails.

I also tried velcro but liked the liquid nails better.
post #158 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swithey View Post

Ozzie,

I am planning to use a French Cleat to attach my panels. I want the ability to remove them if needed to add/remove absorbtion easily. Here is a link to a PDF that explains how they are designed.

Steve

I also considered using French cleats. My issue was the possibility of rattles. With the frame only secure on the top edge the side and lower edges of the frame just hanging the frames would vibrate when the sub-woofer really starts to go causing a rattle.
post #159 of 897
What about these:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=260-367

Do you think they'd support those frames?

I guess you could use a French cleat to support the weight and then throw a couple of these on the bottom to hold it in place.

I was thinking of putting strips to hold the fiberglass in place on the walls then building just the MDF portion of the frames in the same fashion you did. That way I wouldn't have to cut the fiberglass or cut the plywood. I'd just tack up the retaining strips, fit the fiberglass and secure the panels over it.

How important is the 1" of batting over the fiberglass? Is it just filler or is it doing something?
post #160 of 897
Thread Starter 
You know a combination of using the french cleat and the Velcro and/or the HEAVY DUTY GRILL GUIDES (from parts express) might work. The velcro could be used on the bottom/side edges to prevent the frame from rattling.

This way the frames would be removable.
post #161 of 897
Thread Starter 
Paul

Thanks for posting the additional photos.

We need to start a photo gallery of just Fabric Frame Home theaters.

Can not wait to see photos with your chairs to finish it off.

When is your Grand Opening and what DVD will be the first one played?
post #162 of 897
I think we underestimate the power of Velcro. I'm really leaning towards this method myself.

Question Greg... had you thought of using perhaps moulding type strips, and cutting 45 degree angles, and perhaps gluing thin squares of wood in the corners, or the whole back? Essentially making a picture frame. All you really need to do is then find the right cross section look you like, then pull and attach the fabric over your 'frame'.



Thoughts? too light perhaps?
post #163 of 897
From the few panels I have done those moldings are simply to weak. I had the same thought, till I actually picked one up, and saw it bend. When you stretch the fabric accross one of those beam, I think it will simply not work. Heck 1 1/2" MDF even bends a bit if its too long.

Ozzie
post #164 of 897
Hmm.. how about if you back them with thin maybe 1/2 inch plywood? I'm just thinking routing, or angle cutting 50-70 of these frames is going to be hell...
post #165 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by klutzo View Post

Hmm.. how about if you back them with thin maybe 1/2 inch plywood? I'm just thinking routing, or angle cutting 50-70 of these frames is going to be hell...

You are correct the routing took a long time. The look is worth the effort.

With some thought and experimentation we can most likely improve the build technique. Something like this would work. And you would not need to do all the beveled edge cutting:

post #166 of 897
If you are going to go through all the trouble to cut and glue the molding into the frames you might as well router the edges. Lets get one thing straight, these frames are not for people who want a quick and easy solution to this type of look. I tried several different options to GPowers method to achieve the same look but in the end realized that I would just have to put in the time and do it his way. Those of you who can't or don't have the time to do this procedure properly should think of another design option. It looks awesome but it is a hell of a lot of work plain and simple.

Paul
post #167 of 897
I agree with Paul!
Those wallmates might be an easy way out if thats what one wants, but it cost just a bit more. Same look less work, more money.


Ozzie
post #168 of 897
Thread Starter 
Here is a amature photo stich. Click on it to see a larger photo.

post #169 of 897
Greg,

Great job on the room! Plan to do the same chiseled panels. It's nice to see the "whole room" as one shot -- looks huge. Great photo to show all the detailed work you did on the room.
post #170 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowers View Post

The saw dust comes from cutting all the two inch strips of ply wood and MDF to make the frames. I use both plywood and MDF. The plywood is the bottom layer and MDF is the top layer. The Plywood helps with strength and the MDF makes a nice clean 45 degree angle.

More saw dust comes from using the router to create the 45 degree corners.

See the attached photo

I started using Velcro, but after the first two frames switched to liquid nails and a 2 inch brad in each of the corners. With the nail gun set correctly the brad disappear under the fabric. If it is still visible i dab the top of the brad with a black felt tip pen.

Hi Greg,

I am very intrigued by your frames and I may want to use this method. I have access to a complete woodworking shop that over the years I have made some fine furniture. I hope you can answer a few (7) questions.

If I were to build the frames I would use a biscuit joiner machine that cuts into the center of the side of on 1/2 frame and into the end of another section of the frame, this creating a grove for the biscuit to be placed and glued. Using a framing jig this would make a very strong frame. I also have at my disposal a 1/2 shank table mounted router to router the outside edge. I have enclosed a drawing, the red oval is the biscuit of which is made of wood. These biscuits would be installed in each corner of all frames.

Questions:

How did you join the four corners together?

Did you router the inside edges of the frames as well?

I understand why you used plywood for the strength, but did you not have voids in the plywood after using the router?

Linacoustic, is this the same product used to insulate the insides of ductwork?

Can I assume you cut the Linacoustic to fit within the frame and once the frame is mounted this is how the insulation is secured?

What is the Poly Batten used for?

Are the frames attached to a drywall wall or an insulated frame wall?

Sorry for the questions but you have invested many hours in a beautiful theater and you have firsthand knowledge of what you have done. I am in the process of remodeling our home and will be building a theater room.

post #171 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeViper View Post


Questions:

How did you join the four corners together? I used lap joints. I only had access to a table saw and a hand held router.

Did you router the inside edges of the frames as well? No just the outside edge and only if the frames butted up to one another. If the side of the frame butted up to a door frame, corner or column the frame edge was not routered.

I understand why you used plywood for the strength, but did you not have voids in the plywood after using the router? I used a sandwich approach. The bottom layer was plywood and the top layer was MDF. So the routered edge was always smooth because of the MDF.

Linacoustic, is this the same product used to insulate the insides of ductwork? Yes same stuff.

Can I assume you cut the Linacoustic to fit within the frame and once the frame is mounted this is how the insulation is secured? Just pressed into the frame. But not to tight that it causes a bulge.

What is the Poly Batten used for? Too fill the void for one. There several threads that discuss the acoustic propertys of the Linacoustic and poly batten. How and why you need to install them. So i took the advice and ran with it. I'm very happy with the sound quality of the theater.

Are the frames attached to a drywall wall or an insulated frame wall? LiquidNails to the drywall

See answers above by your questions. There is also a long FAQ at :

Fabric Frames FAQ

Hope the answers helped. Please post photos of the progress of your Fabric Frames.
post #172 of 897
I see the point of making frames where you may need something acoustically transparent, but why finish all the walls with them? Wood frames are very unforgiving and they don't make for good-looking seams between them. Besides, they tend to warp and are difficult to upholster. Is this really so much better than 1" acoustical panels? What goes underneath the fabric for absorption?
post #173 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cudak View Post

Is this really so much better than 1" acoustical panels? What goes underneath the fabric for absorption?

Yes! Because he made it. The same fiberglass as in the acoustical panels for a fraction of the cost.
post #174 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowers View Post

See answers above buy your questions. There is also a long FAQ at :

Fabric Frames FAQ

Hope the answers helped. Please post photos of the progress of your Fabric Frames.

Greg,

Thanks for the reply. You have a stunning theater... In one of your photos it appears the the floor is sloping downward towards the screen much like in a large theater. Acoustically its better that the ceiling and floor do not share the same plane, this is why large movie theaters can get away without carpeting the concrete flooring.

I am in the planning stages currently and thinking of pouring the floor at a slope towards the screen. The only drawback to this method is that the room can never be used for anything else. With having both sets of parents living but in their 80's, I can see a day when one or more of the parents may be living among my wife and I. Luckily I have lots of space and building a guest home could be an option Whats in red are the changes I will make to add the theater to my home.

post #175 of 897
Thread Starter 
Unfortunately the floor does not slop, whish it did.

Your plans look like you are building a theater you will enjoy. If you have the room build is a big as you can. Mine is 20 x 15 and i would have liked it 2 or 3 feet wider and longer. We did go with a nine foot ceiling, that is one thing we did right.
post #176 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cudak View Post

I see the point of making frames where you may need something acoustically transparent, but why finish all the walls with them? Wood frames are very unforgiving and they don't make for good-looking seams between them. Besides, they tend to warp and are difficult to upholster. Is this really so much better than 1" acoustical panels? What goes underneath the fabric for absorption?

We do not have a warping problem here in SoCal. Plus the seams between the frames are one of the highlights of the theater and look quite stunning.

The wood frames make is very ease to upholster. I think fabric frames are an easer technic then upholstering the whole wall and hiding the seams with moulding etc. The guys that do their theater that way have a much more difficult job.
post #177 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cudak View Post

I see the point of making frames where you may need something acoustically transparent, but why finish all the walls with them? Wood frames are very unforgiving and they don't make for good-looking seams between them. Besides, they tend to warp and are difficult to upholster. Is this really so much better than 1" acoustical panels? What goes underneath the fabric for absorption?


Greg,

Hope you don't have a problem of me for taking a stab at this. Once the frames are made and covered they can look great. As for the seams the two frames would come together as seen in the Photoshop image I made. With the frames made of MDF this is a very stable material to use as it is made of sawdust and glue. As you can see the butting of the frames forms a nice decorative feature. Remember the frame is not solid but 2 inch wide. From side to side to top to bottom of each frame Polly Batten and Linacoustic is used. Greg used Linacoustic in the first two rows of his theater while the remaining rows to the ceiling were insulated with Polly Batten. If I understand Greg correctly he used 1/2" MDF and 1/2" plywood to make the frame 1" thick so the insulation is flush to the frames once installed within the frame. The MDF is the layer facing the the cloth while the plywood is what the cloth is stapled to on the backside. By using this method the router can router the MDF to a smooth surface so that the cloth has a smooth edge to form around.

post #178 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cudak View Post

... but why finish all the walls with them? Wood frames are very unforgiving and they don't make for good-looking seams between them.

Below is a close-up of the fabric frames in a corner. It shows the detail of both kinds of seams.

post #179 of 897
Just a comment on the construction of these frames. I plan to do the exact same thing as Greg did except with floor to ceiling panels (7' high and 20-24" wide). I'll have one cross member in the middle for rigidity but I'm also thinking seriously about using 1/4" luan plywood or Masonite material attached to the back for additional strength. I can get this stuff for about $10. or less a sheet. If I do this, and since this is a time intensive process, I can make all of the frames at the same time and not have to worry about any warpage later before I get a chance to upholster them--especially if I decide to cut down 2 X 8 material. From there it's an easy step to lay the Lincoustic and Poly Batting in an upholster to my hearts content. Liquid Nail to the wall just like a regular panel.

Bondsan (Bob)
post #180 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeViper View Post

As for the seams the two frames would come together as seen in the Photoshop image I made. With the frames made of MDF this is a very stable material to use as it is made of sawdust and glue.


[IMG]ht-tp://pvreunion.com/Photos/Frames_On_Wall.png[/IMG]

Photoshop "panels" and wood panels are not the same. Yes Plywood and MDF are stable flat materials, but proper tools and how to use the tools are a big part of how successful you'l be with your panels / seams. If your panels aren't fairly square you'll have gaps when you butt them up against each other. Just my .02ยข
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