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Fabric Frames - Page 8

post #211 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by swithey View Post

Please take pics of your frames. I will be making mine in the next 3-4 weeks and would love to see how your design turns out.

I have decided to back off from building my theater with 10 foot ceiling due to the position of the screen/projector and how far I would have to mount the projector from the ceiling. I am thinking of going back to the original plan of 8 foot ceilings. The bottom two rows will have frames that measure 32" x 22". With the first two rows occupying 44 of wall height the larger frame will be 32 x 50 for a combine height of 94 leaving 2 at the top. Crown molding will be installed around the entire room to hide that 2 gap.

Why did I select 32 wide frames? With the 2 x 4 studs on 16 centers I wanted to make sure that each frame was backed up by a stud.
post #212 of 897
Thread Starter 
We did a nine foot ceiling and are very happy with it. It gives the room a much larger apperance.

I have a CRT projector and it is mounted about 6" off the ceiling.
post #213 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeViper View Post

Why did I select 32 wide frames? With the 2 x 4 studs on 16 centers I wanted to make sure that each frame was backed up by a stud.


Are you attaching the frames, with screws, to the studs? Are you double drywalling?

I was under the impression that once the room is double drywalled, you should try to minimize breaking the sound isolation (drywall).
post #214 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

Are you attaching the frames, with screws, to the studs? Are you double drywalling?

I was under the impression that once the room is double drywalled, you should try to minimize breaking the sound isolation (drywall).

I have yet to decide how each frame will attach to the wall, but at work I have a catalog with many fasteners. One thing I will not use is Velcro due to the expenses. The French cleat does not appear to be a good method either. If the frame was very heavy the cleat would work but not in this environment with lots of bass.
post #215 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeViper View Post

The French cleat does not appear to be a good method either. If the frame was very heavy the cleat would work but not in this environment with lots of bass.

Dogeviper,

I heard that if you put some thin cork in the cleat, it will handle any vibrations. Not done it myself to confirm, though.
post #216 of 897
Thread Starter 
Finally got around to finishing off the counter top over the A/C return.



I wanted to do a Granite slab. I though i could find someone that had a large enough pice of scrap that is would not cost an arm and a leg. Quotes for Granite ran $1,500 to $3,000. They all said the high price was because they had to buy an compleat slab for this small job. Priced corian too, it was $1,000 plus.

So I used Granite tile with hard wood trim. Cost all of $20. I had the Granite tile, it was left over from an office building remodel.

I wanted to grind over the outside edge but the grinding stone set, need to do the successive grinding ,was $250. I think the hardwood ,stained dark, looks just as nice. At least it is done. One more project off the list.
post #217 of 897
Had a few minutes today to build a frame and show what 15 minutes can do if you have a table saw, router, chop saw, and biscuit machine. Actually it took longer because I had to wait for the glue to dry, but if you exclude the drying time it took less than 15 minutes to rip the 2 wide strips, cut to length, cut the slots, glue & square the frame, and router the outside edge.

You can really save time if you rip all the MDF, cut to length, and have all the joints cut with the biscuit machine. Then it's a matter of gluing up the frames.

Although this was done just as an example I only used ¾ inch MDF. The frame that was completed was strong.


Wood Shop



The Four Sides That Make Up The Frame



Dewalt Biscuit Machine



Sides & Ends After Biscuit Machine Was Used



Photo Showing The Biscuit Before Glue



Frame Having Been Squared & Glued


post #218 of 897
Porter Cable 1/4 Inch Shank Router With Roundover Bit



Finished Corner. The Seam Is Hardly Visible



Photo Looking Down The Side Of Frame



Finished Frame



This Photo Is Showing Stables Driven Using A Pneumatic Air Stapler Thats Flush With The MDF And A Staple Using A Manual Hand Staple Gun. Very Obvious That When Placing Fabric On The Frame A Pneumatic Air Stapler Will Need To Be Used.


post #219 of 897
DodgeViper,

Well done! Thanks for the tutorial. Do you think 3/4" MDF will have enough strength to work as panels (I need min 1" but was just curious)? Looks like using the biscuit technique may be the trick to a strong frame.

Now the 65k question is.. how do you plan to hang these things on the wall? I was considering the french cleat myself but since I only need access to one wall of them, I may nail and glue the panels for the other (3) walls.

WOuld love your ideas on this
post #220 of 897
DodgeViper..Very nice job!! Do you have fabric you can stretch over the frames to see a "final" product. What's that saw ? A Unisaw ?



Quote:
Originally Posted by swithey View Post


Do you think 3/4" MDF will have enough strength to work as panels (I need min 1" but was just curious)? Looks like using the biscuit technique may be the trick to a strong frame.

swithey....I think the stregnth of DodgeVipers panel comes from the laminating (just like plywood). The glue between the layers stiffens the materials, making them more stable and stronger than single 3/4" strips of MDF.
post #221 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

DodgeViper..Very nice job!! Do you have fabric you can stretch over the frames to see a "final" product. What's that saw ? A Unisaw ?

swithey....I think the stregnth of DodgeVipers panel comes from the laminating (just like plywood). The glue between the layers stiffens the materials, making them more stable and stronger than single 3/4" strips of MDF.

Well the frame is history. After the frame had setup for 20 hours I decided to see how much abuse it would take before the frame broke. Believe me the biscuits will hold up just fine in the theater application. The ¾ was used only for an example. The frame you see in the photo is ¾. The reason you need the 1 MDF is for the 1 insulation. I will use either ¾ MDF with ¼ backer to make up the total of 1 thick or purchase 1 MDF.

The saw is a high dollar Delta
post #222 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by swithey View Post

DodgeViper,

Well done! Thanks for the tutorial. Do you think 3/4" MDF will have enough strength to work as panels (I need min 1" but was just curious)? Looks like using the biscuit technique may be the trick to a strong frame.

Now the 65k question is.. how do you plan to hang these things on the wall? I was considering the french cleat myself but since I only need access to one wall of them, I may nail and glue the panels for the other (3) walls.

WOuld love your ideas on this

Personally after giving it some thought the reverse cleat is practically the idle setup. During the construction of the frame the top rail and the bottom rail can be run through the table saw and have a 45 degree bevel cut along its entire length of the rails. Assemble the frames as in the tutorial above. Once the first rows of frames are installed the next row of frames will keep the first row from coming off, followed by the next row. The very top row will need some additional treatment to secure the frames from moving, maybe Velcro may be the answer for the top with the cleats.

A few pages back someone showed those plastic fasteners that are typically used in the speaker industry. Personally I think they would be more trouble than they are worth, this being mounted the socket section to the sheetrock and getting all four corners aligned correctly.

In using the reverse cleat you could make a jig to anchor all cleats in the correct position so that the frames seat correctly. I will make another frame this Sunday showing the frame with the cleats and mounted to drywall.
post #223 of 897
Greg, great job and write-up! I've been inspired. I don't plan on doing my entire room, but this thread will get me going treating first reflections.

And for those of you who have never purchased a 4x8 sheet of MDF, it's not 48"x96". It's 49" wide.
post #224 of 897
Are you planning on using a roundover bit to do the 1" thick frames?
The sample frame you did, doesn't look like a full 45 degree angle.
post #225 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowers View Post

The PDF is full of great ideas and samples. Wish I had access to something like this before I did my project. It presents more options and variety.

I was looking through some of these and I was wondering what you guys think of the sound improvement that could be had from something like their island panels home brewed. I really want to do something like you did Greg, but it looks like it will be cost prohibitive for the first round of my theater.

Would these "picture frames" of GOM with Linacoustics inside be better than nothing?
post #226 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaxx View Post

Are you planning on using a roundover bit to do the 1" thick frames?
The sample frame you did, doesn't look like a full 45 degree angle.

The 3/8" roundover bit I used is not the one I will use to do my frames. I will need to use either a 5/8" or 3/4" roundover bit. I could not use either of these two bits as they would not fit the trim router I hand on hand. The larger router that these bits fit was setup for another job and I did not have acess to it without changing the current settings.

In regards to your question of the full 45 degree angle, I do want somewhat of a flat edge so that when two sections of the frames come in contact with each other it's a tight fit.
post #227 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowers View Post

Finally got around to finishing off the counter top over the A/C return.

I wanted to do a Granite slab. I though i could find someone that had a large enough pice of scrap that is would not cost an arm and a leg. Quotes for Granite ran $1,500 to $3,000. They all said the high price was because they had to buy an compleat slab for this small job. Priced corian too, it was $1,000 plus.

So I used Granite tile with hard wood trim. Cost all of $20. I had the Granite tile, it was left over from an office building remodel.

I wanted to grind over the outside edge but the grinding stone set, need to do the successive grinding ,was $250. I think the hardwood ,stained dark, looks just as nice. At least it is done. One more project off the list.

Wow, those granite dealers sound like a rip. I did a bar sink in 3 cm granite and total cost was $400. That included dilling for the faucet, mounting the undermount sink with clips and a bullnose edge. I was able to buy a piece from a left over slab. The size is a little larger than the table in your photo.
post #228 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeViper View Post

In using the reverse cleat you could make a jig to anchor all cleats in the correct position so that the frames seat correctly. I will make another frame this Sunday showing the frame with the cleats and mounted to drywall.

DodgeViper,

I am very interested in seeing your cleat construction this weekend and the jig you make to create the cleats. Thanks for the instructions in advance
post #229 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R-U-Q-R-U View Post

Wow, those granite dealers sound like a rip. I did a bar sink in 3 cm granite and total cost was $400. That included dilling for the faucet, mounting the undermount sink with clips and a bullnose edge. I was able to buy a piece from a left over slab. The size is a little larger than the table in your photo.

Thats what i was trying to do. I thought, for a small job like this, a remnant would be the way to go. But baised on the quotes that I got no one wanted this job.

I think it is somthing in Southern California. Any kind of quote for home improvment is ski high.
post #230 of 897
Greg - What is the depth that the 2 pieces of velcro add to the frame? 1/4"? 1/8"? Less?

i/o/w: if the frame was mounted to the wall directly verses mounted to the wall with the velcro, how much further off the wall does the velcro mounting add?

[I'm considering building three frames like yours but to cover with speaker cloth and cover 3 built in speakers (not in-wall speakers, but speakers placed in recessed "boxes" with the fronts flush to the screen wall). I need to figure out the additional depth so that I'll know about mounting the firring strips, etc. for my screen wall fabric.]

Thanks
post #231 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by swithey View Post


My panels will need to be 1.5" deep because I plan to build some diffusors in a few of them (which require this depth). That will force me to use (2) 3/4" pieces to achieve this depth.


Even keeping the fiberglass spaced off the wall will help the acoustics of the room. Whish I had supended the fiberglass off the wall by 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch.
post #232 of 897
You could use the cleat I have drawn for the bottom and use this method for the top and bottom rails of the frames as seen in this drawing. In fact it would be much easier to use this method. Back a few post you had wrote of your concerns of the cleat hanging down into the area of where the insulation would be and that is how I came up with the cutout section on the top rail. Then I began thinking of how the bottom rail could use the cleat and not be a problem in wrapping the cloth around the frame. This drawing appears to be the trick for the cleats for the top and bottom. All could be made on the table saw. Depending on what type of finish edge you put on the frames using a roundover bit or a chamfer bit your still going to need a router...

post #233 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeViper View Post

Sorry I made an error in the wording. I have corrected what I said. I would use the table saw to cut the cleats and the bottom rail only. The top rail cutout is done using the table saw and chop saw.

You could use the cleat I have drawn for the bottom and use this method for the top and bottom rails of the frame. In fact it would be much easier to use this method. Back a few post you had wrote of your concerns of the cleat hanging down into the area of where the insulation would be and that is how I came up with the cutout section on the top rail. Then I began thinking of how the bottom rail could use the cleat and not be a problem in wrapping the cloth around the frame.

I follow you. Well, now I have some things to think about. I'm contemplating just glueing the front and side wall panels directly to the wall (with brad support like Gary did) and hanging the rear ones with the method you described above (I need access to the rear wall because it is a false wall). Glueing would save a lot of time. The only issue would be if I ever needed to remove the panels from some reason. I cannot think of one right now except to change the fabric. Hopefully by that time I'll be selling the house

GARY --> You said you had to pull down a few the other day to remake them because of some rattling. Where they difficult to pull off, did it tear up the drywall pretty badly and how well did they stick back on the wall
post #234 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPowers View Post

Even keeping the fiberglass spaced off the wall will help the acoustics of the room. Whish I had supended the fiberglass off the wall by 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch.

Gary, now you have me thinking of how the insulation could be flush with the fabric/face frame and 1/2" or more from the sheetrock without the insulation moving. Obvious some type of breathable netting stretched across the mid-section of the frame would be needed. It would also require the frame to be 1.75 thick Plastic screen netting used on windows would work.

I think I would make a frame of 3/4" then stretched the netting across the entire frame using staples to hold it taught, then building another 1" frame and sandwich the two frames together. This would keep the insulation off of the sheetrock 3/4 of an inch.
post #235 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeViper View Post

I think I would make a frame of 3/4" then stretched the netting across the entire frame using staples to hold it taught, then building another 1" frame and sandwich the two frames together. This would keep the insulation off of the sheetrock 3/4 of an inch.


Before I finished the back of the Fabric Frames that cover the equipment rack I used Green line pull string. The back of the frames were open and i needed something to hold in the fiberglass and Poly batten. So i used the stapler and the pull string on the back of the frame. I just zig zaged back and forth top to bottom about 6 or 7 times. The string held in the fiberglass with out any problems.
post #236 of 897
Greg

Your room looks great. Pictures like that keep me working on mine into the wee hours of the morning. Thanks for the great thread!

I'm just about to the point of treating my room, and I've been reading up on the Acoustic sticky thread in this forum. There seems to be lots of back and forth concerning any general treatment rules. As you have treated your front wall, side up to ear level, and batting above....how would you say it sounds? Does the room seem dead at all? I realize there are other factors to consider, but I'd just like to hear the opinion of someone that's done it and now happily uses it.

Thanks

Blake
post #237 of 897
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredmxer View Post

Greg

Your room looks great. Pictures like that keep me working on mine into the wee hours of the morning. Thanks for the great thread!

I'm just about to the point of treating my room, and I've been reading up on the Acoustic sticky thread in this forum. There seems to be lots of back and forth concerning any general treatment rules. As you have treated your front wall, side up to ear level, and batting above....how would you say it sounds? Does the room seem dead at all? I realize there are other factors to consider, but I'd just like to hear the opinion of someone that's done it and now happily uses it.

Thanks

Blake

Thanks for the kind words regarding the theater.

I think the acoustics worked out great. You know the room is acoustical treated when you walk in. Everything sounds different. All our guest cannot believe how good movies sound.

A few weeks ago we had a friend (Someone must work in the film industry) bring over "Memoirs of a Geisha", we had a blast. Every one thought they were very special watching a first run movie in a Home Theater. And the sound was great to.

Just remember that I did all the things that my budget allowed. One option that I did not do was to spend the extra cash for a professional to design the acoustic. The budget was just not big enough. I think I got to about 80% to 85% of the goal. I could have spent 20 or 30K more and got 100% but i think this was a good compromise.
post #238 of 897
Quote:
Originally Posted by swithey View Post

I follow you. Well, now I have some things to think about. I'm contemplating just glueing the front and side wall panels directly to the wall (with brad support like Gary did) and hanging the rear ones with the method you described above (I need access to the rear wall because it is a false wall). Glueing would save a lot of time. The only issue would be if I ever needed to remove the panels from some reason. I cannot think of one right now except to change the fabric. Hopefully by that time I'll be selling the house

GARY --> You said you had to pull down a few the other day to remake them because of some rattling. Where they difficult to pull off, did it tear up the drywall pretty badly and how well did they stick back on the wall

In this drawing you can see how the cleats would be hidden on the ends. Routering the entire outside edge is not a problem.

post #239 of 897
DodgeViper,

Great pics -- works for me. That's probably the way I will go. I still have some things to do in the room before I get to panel construction, though.

Are you planning to embark soon on your panel construction?
post #240 of 897
Well, you guys have convinced me to go the panel route instead of the more traditional route of stretching over furring strips. The more I planned that route in my head, the more I don't like it.

What is going to make my effort different from this mentioned in this thread thus far is that I am leaving the upper half of my wall uncovered, just applying linacoustic panels up to ear level and the entire front wall. We'll see how it turns out.

My local HD has both 1/2" and 15/23" plywood. I think I'll use the 15/32" as it is $6/sheet cheaper.
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