ERA Speakers - Page 6

Probably not, considering as I understand it the design 5s are essentially the 4s with a slightly larger woofer. To be fair, I don't know at this point if it's just the speakers, I'm starting to lean towards the CDP. I'm auditioing the 804s this Saturday I hope and will probably be able to determine at that point if it's the speakers, something else or a combination.

Why not the 805"s?

lol, not quite. I had to sell off my old system which had 804 speakers. I decided that after six years of ****** TV speakers, I would get back into 2ch audio. Tried to go the cheap route as these boards have tons of people who keep telling you everything sounds the same. imo that's not even close to accurate but that's a discussion for another day. Anyway, started out with a Sony receiver and the Design 4s. Receiver wasn't doing it for me, so I moved to an Ayre AX-7e integrated and Ayre CX-7e CDP. I'm starting to realize that I lucked into the perfect sound for me with my first system and that if I want the same sound I'm likely going to have to use the same components.

And for the record, again, I know it's completely unfair and delusional to compare the Design 4s against the 804 but that should tell you about something about the 4s.

Huh. Except for the fact that I like the Image series a little more than the 600 series for a little less money, they design is so similar, they're almost like clones in most models. The Platinum T8s sound very much like how I remember the Nautilus 800 except with bigger soundstaging. Tight, punchy bass, somewhat forward midrange, sparkly treble, very powerful sounding. Woven fiberglass is very similar in many ways to woven Kevlar.

I prefer and mainly push the Image/Alphas because I think that's where they shine a bit more and provide value for people with cheap receivers and electronics. I'd like to see them change the designs of more than a few models and am going to work towards that end, but all the people who dislike NHT and love B&W come in and go "wow, I *like* these!!!"

I know what you mean though in general, I guess. The ironic thing is that my version of "little regard" comes from the fact that they have become *too* similar to B&Ws

Actually, I've been thinking about it and I misspoke; it's not veiled. The vocals are clear, it's that the vocals are placed slightly behind the stage as with most CDPs. What I really like is the intimacy of my old Wadia 850 where the vocals were placed slightly in front of the stage, as if the singer was giving me a personal concert. Anyway, have either a Wadia 581 (if I can trade in my Ayre) or a Wadia 521 (with CX-7e as transport) coming in for audition in about two weeks time hopefully so I can determine whether I'm right regarding the above or whether it's a combination of speakers and source or whether I'm just losing it altogether

As above, the room acoustics are the first thing I'm dealing with as I have concrete walls and tile floors (although I now have most of it covered by rugs) and I'm set up with the room width wise; basically, all kinds of no-nos but I'm having a couple of pros take a look.

I'm just not enthralled with the idea of such expensive non-floorstanding speakers (not to mention the no lube job B&W gives you on the stand pricing). However, it wouldn't hurt to try them while I'm checking out the 804s; thanks for the suggestion.

One of the things that B&Ws do so well from a sales stand point is that they make other speakers seem more veiled or lacking in detail than they really are. Paper and treated paper will typically have a very small veil but will have a very controlled and well behaved sound. Poly is pretty similar, but will generally take on a slightly warmer tonal balance. Metals and ceramics are much more resolving, but then they can be more fatiguing if you don't use them properly. Kevlar, fiberglass and carbon have a very energetic top end and tend to resonate along with the music. They have good properties in being light, but they do add in some extra harmonics and tend to create that more forward female vocal that you like. There's a very interesting article on the subject here: http://ai.kaist.ac.kr/~suh/DIY/feedback.html You can actually get a basic idea of what a speaker will sound like just based on the driver complement, assuming that accuracy is a goal of the designer and what strengths and weaknesses it's likely to have. The ERAs appeal to me because I suspect they will be reminiscent of a few old favorites of mine.


BTW, speakers behave better on a wide wall if you can keep you and them away from the front/back walls.

PS, Bar, your electronics couldn't possibly be a weak spot! Keep working the setup/acoustics angle. It won't morph them into something they're not, but it will get the most out of them!

Thanks for the article, really interesting. Can't wait to see what happens with the B&Ws.

Interesting comment on the walls, everyone I've spoken to tells me I should be set up going down the length of the room. Any links with regard to that?

That's what I thought when I bought it all and to be honest, I'm really disappointed and discouraged at this point (6k in and not happy is a bad place to be, the CDP is making me feel like I wasted 3k) . That's also why I'm looking forward to the dealer audition, it will not only tell me whether the speakers are an issue, but also whether the acoustics are an issue as I might just bring along my Design 4s to compare (and hopefully make the dealer stand up and pay attention to Era) Plus, the CDP will be 'broken in' if that matters as it's playing continuously until then.

Agreed

Well, I'd agree that they are more similar than the NHT.


Your welcome, but there are many good stands out there . There are a few expensive monitor/bookshelf speakers that I feel cost more than $1k and are worth it, the 805's some Totems and Revels come to mind.


Others would argue that it shows that some speakers ARE, in fact, more veiled or lacking in detail, auditioning personally is sooo important.


All these generalities contain grains of truth, but good designers can correct for them and/or incorporate these characteristics into great overall designs. Also, some slight modifications to the make-up of the driver can radicly change these characteristics or remove them altogether.


I fear too many people take these attitudes into an audition and come away with the results they expected due to preconceived biases.


While they are MUCH less likely to be a concern than the room or the speaker, they can occaisionally be a weak point, as he has already discovered.

DAMN, I just looked at transport prices and they are disgusting. I thought why not check out Esoteric as I love TEAC and how much could a transport really cost anyway; BIG mistake (the new TEAC transport is 3k raw unit price, no wonder Wadia took a pass on that. The Ayre CX-7e apparently uses a transport from DVS???).

Anyway, if I go with the Wadia 521 decoder then I should also be able to run my DVD player (with RCA to BNC adapter) and XBox/HD DVD (Toslink) through it's DAC which should be a pretty nice bonus (my shite 3rd world ghetto sub 480 resolution satellite with even poorer audio is beyond help as there's no digital out on any boxes out here, not that it would make any type of difference). Of course that's assuming that the CX-7e/521 sounds as good as the 581; I won't sacrifice music for the other stuff, but if I get it as a bonus, why not.

Either way I'll at least get to update on how the Design 4s do with different sources (that's worth 5-6k right... right ?!?).

I would like to add my fondness for Dave, he is a genuinely nice guy and very passionate about this business and music. Since we picked up the line I've talked with him in the store about 4 times and come away thinking we should push Musical Fidelity to just to get him more business. I am glad to see his involvement here and am interested in seeing the expansion of the linewith the new products (on-walls) and the promise of more things to come (floorstanding). I would like to point out that while his subs are not the type of product that you see people here gravitating towards, from a "musical" perspective, I enjoy them very much and find them to be quite "Rel-like", and they compliment the speakers wonderfully in terms of beauty, build quality , flexability and SQ. I hope this company thrives like it ought to.

Hi,

Guys, Sorry for the delay. With the traveling/web site and "buck stops here" issues, it has been difficult at best to keep up. I'll try to bet better in the future.
Looks like the page is growing much faster than I would have antisipated.
Please don't hesitate calling me if you need a quick answer 770-649=9544 or write@ davids@signalpathint.com.

Sound By Singer carries the speakers in NYC, Harvey carries the D4..

David Solomon

Currently, The Triad InCeiling Gold/6 Omni is my favorite match w/ the D4/D5. We will have an in-ceiling similar to this speaker at some point this year...probably toward the end.
Best wishes,
David

Has anyone tried 5 D3Sats (or 4 of them with one LCR) in a system?

Hi all,

I am new here but read a bit of this thread on ERA speakers which I also listened to at AudioAdvice in Raleigh, NC. I was certainly impressed by them. I have two questions.

1. Has any one listened to the D5/D5LCR 5.1setup (Audio advice did not have the D5LCR and I only listened in a 2.1 setup) with an Outlaw 990?
2. I also listened to the Genelec HT206 pair side by side with the D5 pair. I thought they were almost the same except for a bit of bass advantage for the HT206 though the Genelecs are much pricier. I'd love to hear from some one who has heard a complete 5.1 system of both Genelecs side by side with D5s. How do they compare ? With the Genelec HTS3B sub or the ERA sub10 in the setup how does it change the equation?

TIA,

bakki

No , but I've heard several sets with brands like Pioneer Elite, Denon, Integra, and h/k, as well as with Rotel, and Arcam.
The 5 LCR's I have also used as mains.

Would you please describe your experiences? Was there a significant difference in the audio quality among all the brands you mention? AudioAdvice recommends Lexicon for the ERA setup. Is this necessary if there are other brands which perform as well but are less expensive?

Just my 2 cents, but I think that good power is more important than the processor.

I have been using mirage om-12's as my fronts. I had a sony 333es receiver driving them. They sounded ok. I added a proceed AMP 3 (3-channel amp) and they sounded much better. I then replaced the sony with a lexicon dc-2 and noticed a small improvement, but not nearly as big as adding the amp.

So then I used the sony to power the ERA D4's in the rear (still using lexicon as processor) and they sounded fine. The sony died and I replaced it with a little rotel 1050 and the ERA's really woke up.

Again, just my opinion, but I don't think that something like a lexicon is required to enjoy the ERA's. However you *DO* need good power to really make them shine. Also, if you are really interested in a lexicon, ask the guys at Audio Advice what they have available in the used room They have a lot of stuff that isn't in that little room by the service desk.

I'll chime in.

I personally recommend quality amplification for all speakers. As with most speakers and the ERA's are no exception only get better with added power.

They also sound great with a receiver, but they really come into their own with separates. I use Marantz and Yamaha only here at my shop. They have no problems driving the ERA's and both these receivers are very musical pieces.

I took the Design 5 sats into our Parasound Halo room and WOW did they really shine. I could almost swear I was hearing the Aerial 5b.

David......Nice job on the website, it's finally up and going. Woo-hoo!

Where is their new website? I still only see the one at http://www.signalpathint.com/framesetEra.htm

Refresh your browser and go to www.signalpathint.com.

Yes, for the record, as one who complained a lot about the old site: nice job! It's really well-designed, and also standards-compliant. Sort of like the speakers themselves actually; nice looking, and solidly designed and built.

Hi Guys, Thanks a million. I feel as though I've just given birth. Here's my new baby www.signalpathint.com . Hope you like it. There will be a few kinks for the first few weeks, but we'll get sorted out soon.

Thanks for all of the input I have received regarding the site. I understand that it might take 24-48 hours before everyone will see the site.

Best wishes,
David Solomon

Damn it! I tried everything. I reloaded cache, I tried every browser I still see the image in the attached .zip file. What gives?

 

Era webpage.zip 272.580078125k . file

Straight from the site:
"The small print: When a speaker with real bass response is designed in such a small box, it requires more power than a typical speaker its size. So we suggest an amp or receiver with a good power supply with at least 75 watts or more per channel."

Thought it might important to some to explain this.
era speakers have a natural roll off on the bottom end. We did sacrifice efficiency for bandwidth. But, this is why they sound like they do.
Most speakers this size have a bass hump somewhere in the mid-bass region. This allows them to be more efficient and play louder and give the illusion of bass, but they also roll off very quickly, forcing you to cross the sub higher. This causes phase shift and un-natural bass response.
We decided to take the high road and have drivers designed that could take the heat and abuse it takes to get a driver this small to go so low. This takes real power, but as a result, you should be able to attain audiophile performance in such a small box if you have good power.

Many budget receivers rate power @ 1k... This means across the entire bandwidth, the true power could be 45-50 watts per channel. They all want a way to say 100 watts per channel.

If you're receiver is rated like the example below (honest), you should be fine to run the era's full range...
Example 75 wpc (or higher) x 5 or (7) all channels driven 20-20,000 +-1dB.
This kind of spec should start at about $800 and above. I don't have all receiver specs, nor have I used them all, so there could very well be exceptions to this...I'm just not aware.

Avoid limited bandwidth specs as they are only there to manipulate.

Hope this helps,
David

Hi mpg,
I don't understand why, but my web person said that it could take up to 48 hours to spread to all of the servers in the country...(sigh)
David

great info - thanks, David. I've got the era 5s, cm1s, Dali Ikon2s and Dynaudio 42s on my short list. I'll be powering them with an Arcam Avr100.

if anyone's got any insight into these, I'd be happy to hear.

I listened to the d4s when i demo'd my Arcam CD73 and was very impressed. I bought the CD Player. Maybe i should have bought the speakers instead?

All fine speakers. The AVR100 should work well w/ any of these.
Glad to be in such good company.
Best regards!
David