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New Mitsubishi HD VCR soon??  

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
I was just at the Good Guys, buying a replacement S-VHS machine for an older machine that could not be repaired. The salesperson told me that he just received training on a new Mitsubishi HD VCR that will be available at the end of August. He says he has one at home for testing.

It has component input/output (HD), S-video input/output (SD), and has firewire input/output. He says that Mitsubishi is guaranteeing upgrade for HDCP. Price will be $2k.

Has anyone else heard of this? He says that Mitsubishi is trying to keep this quiet for right now.

Note: The Good Guys is always the first around here to get new consumer video gear. (This is the store in East Palo Alto, for those of you who live in this area.)
post #2 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by rlsmith:
It has component input/output (HD), S-video input/output (SD), and has firewire input/output. He says that Mitsubishi is guaranteeing upgrade for HDCP. Price will be $2k.

Wow! You mean this is going to be able to record from STB component outputs?


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"You can't argue with a confident man"
- Napoleon Wilson, Assault on Precinct 13


[This message has been edited by HiDefGuy (edited 07-31-2001).]
post #3 of 42
It could be true but I take any info I get from a GG, CC, or BB sales drone with a big block of salt.

Regards,

Brian
post #4 of 42
Hi guys

On the possibility of an ANALOG input...
I saw a HiDef component to MPEG encoder at last years
NAB and it was big, noisy (fans) and cost
tens of thousands of dollars.

There's no way that any company will make such a
product available for consumers on a VCR when they can get
better results by recording the digital bitstream.
They could also get into trouble for selling such a product.

Mitsubishi's VCR will probably have a built-in tuner
and have an encrypted IEEE-1394 output in addition to
the component video output.

Interoperability with our current Panasonic vcrs will
be an interesting topic.

cheers

ST
post #5 of 42
"It has component input/output (HD)"

I don't believe it.

It probably will have all the normal NTSC video I/O, and IEEE1394, and component out.

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"Better living thru modern, expensive electronics devices"
tm
post #6 of 42
Hey RL -

What was the sales guy's name? I'm fairly local to them, & might stop in if I knew who to ask for.

Thanks

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Peter
post #7 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H:
I don't believe it.
I agree. The encoder it will likely be SD, similar to the one in the JVC DH30000. If it is an HD encoder I'd bet money the resolution is degraded.

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-Roger
Analog -- Always out of adjustment.
Digital -- Always one more bug.
post #8 of 42
Thread Starter 
peterd,

His name was Robert, he said he was a video manager. He was out of business cards.

Please let us know if you learn something. I will be going back as well to see what is up.
post #9 of 42
Will do! Not sure when I'll get by there, though...

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Peter
post #10 of 42
A few blurbs in the Perfect vision and widescrren review have mentioned component inputs. Lets hope!

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John Tuohy
post #11 of 42
Just FYI, currently, the cheapest RGB to HD serial encoder is about $2,500. It's not conceivable that the JVC unit could contain one for the price of the VCR.
post #12 of 42
The question is whether it encrypts all outgoing firewire info. If it does I'm not sure we will be able to use it with a tu-dst50/51.
post #13 of 42
I spoke a few hours ago with a knowledgable sales guy in my local GoodGuys and he didn't know anything about the new Mits HD VCR coming this month; we both checked their stock computer and it didn't show up any planned shipments, at least in Southern Cal (you Northern Cal guys get all the interesting stuff...!). He said he was expecting both the Mits and JVC in September and he thought both would definitely come with component outputs 0- when you think about it, what the hell use would firewire be for 99% of us. He did tell me that he's just sold another Panasonic HD1000 D-VHS recorder a few days ago, so amazingly these Pany gems are still turning up in stores occasionally.

As for component inputs, I have great trouble believing this, yet, what use would a HD recorder be to most of us without this? I think I'm correct in saying that it's a relative minority that have the Pany STB. With a $2k price tag, this is a premium item.

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"You can't argue with a confident man"
- Napoleon Wilson, Assault on Precinct 13
post #14 of 42
Andersons TV's told me that they were getting one pretty soon and were also at the training thing for it. They said it would record using firewire. Actually they don't have the capability to actualy record the content so they digitize the content in code and then stream it back through the STB.

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Only in America.....Don King
post #15 of 42
Maybe the component inputs on the VCR are just a "pass-through" so that the VCR and a STB can share a single set of component inputs on an HDTV monitor. It would simplify hookup, since hardly any HDTV monitors have enough inputs for a STB, DVD and VCR.

Mark
post #16 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by mbuchana:
Maybe the component inputs on the VCR are just a "pass-through" so that the VCR and a STB can share a single set of component inputs on an HDTV monitor. It would simplify hookup, since hardly any HDTV monitors have enough inputs for a STB, DVD and VCR.
Mark
Mark, good point, I'll buy into that for the component inputs. A gripe of many of us is that our HDTV's don't have enough component inputs in; but I still think it will have component HD output. And for $2k it ought to have an ATSC OTA tuner too; otherwise why so expensive? The HD1000 only listed at less than $1k, didn't it?


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"You can't argue with a confident man"
- Napoleon Wilson, Assault on Precinct 13
post #17 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by achase:
Just FYI, currently, the cheapest RGB to HD serial encoder is about $2,500. It's not conceivable that the JVC unit could contain one for the price of the VCR.
And that's only a small part of the puzzel. The device you speak of outputs a SMPTE 292 stream at 1.5gbs, yes that's gigabits. Now you have to compress it down to the neighborhood of 20mbs to record it on a consumer tape format. That's still a $six figure box.

The component pass through while not in playback mode seems very practicle and a good feature. There is nothing illegal about component recording capabilities and never will be. But it's way too expensive and of limited use for any consumer manufacture to invest the R&D to try and get it a cost effective option. Plus they will be eliminating component outputs on STB's soon anyway.
post #18 of 42
With regard to being too expensive, that's a red herring. New chips coming out are/will be closer to system-on-a-chip with integrated wideband ADCs and DACS. All the cost is in design, not production.

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Ken Elliott
post #19 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Glimmie:
Plus they will be eliminating component outputs on STB's soon anyway.
It doesn't really matter--as I understand it, to get any recent Hollywood films for broadcast in unedited, uncut HD (ala HBO, Showtime, PPV, etc), the satellite and few cable operators carrying such had to agree to equipment designed to be told to down-res HD output (to a little better than DVD) when copy protection systems had been agreed upon. (For example, on page 14 of the User's Guide for RCA's DTC100 , there is this little warning: "Due to copyright restrictions, you may not be able to view some high definition programs in high definition format using this product."). So all existing STBs will stop outputting any high-value copyrighted material (close to first-run movies, etc) in full HD, soon. Even if you could get equipment to encode the analog HD outputs to tape, Hollywood wouldn't care too much.

Of course, anything in 5C "Copy Free" mode, which, hopefully, will encompass most broadcast HD material, should continue to show up in full HD out of the old STBs. Just the "Copy Once" stuff will be down-res'd.

The only uncompressed video stream permitted now is DVI/HDCP, which isn't designed to be recorded. HD enters your home in compressed form--why would you try to record the voluminous decoded raster?

-- Mike Scott




[This message has been edited by michaeltscott (edited 08-04-2001).]
post #20 of 42
Until there is an STB with a 5C Firewire output, there will be little use for a VCR. Maybe they could watermark the 5C info onto the analog.

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Ken Elliott

[This message has been edited by kelliot (edited 08-04-2001).]
post #21 of 42
Quote:
Just FYI, currently, the cheapest RGB to HD serial encoder is about $2,500. It's not conceivable that the JVC unit could contain one for the price of the VCR.
Yes, but the MPEG2 encoding chips in the Tivo boxes do an adequate job on 480i at marginal cost. And the new down rezzed analog output format is only slightly greater data rate than that. It's really not that much of a stretch to handle it. And you could easily imaging a recorder doing a little filtering for easier compression anyway.

As much as we may hate the thought of down rez'ing, it certainly makes recording easier. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

- Tom

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post #22 of 42
This may be a reiteration of a post I made a few weeks ago concerning the new Mits HD-VCR.

I had the chance to speak to the L.I. Mits factory rep about the new HD-VCR.

He told me that the only inputs/outputs that would carry HD are Firewire. He said that the VCR will be used with the new Mits HD displays with built in HD STBs that will have Firewire input and output. He also said that there are no immediate plans for an external HD STB with Firewire output.

So I asked him "do you mean that if I want the new HD-VCR from Mits, I have to buy a new Mits HD RPTV?" His answer..."yes!"

Lee
post #23 of 42
Obviously, we need some brave soul to get one and try it with the TU-DST50/51. This may not be too much of a stretch if it shows up in places such as Good Guys (since they'll likely allow a 30 day return).

Now the hearty souls who bought the first Victor DH30000s, they took a risk...

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Peter
post #24 of 42
I was at a Good Guys today and there may also be a Panasonic recorder according to the salesman who had just had his fall HD training.

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Ken Elliott
post #25 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by LeeAntin:
This may be a reiteration of a post I made a few weeks ago concerning the new Mits HD-VCR.

I had the chance to speak to the L.I. Mits factory rep about the new HD-VCR.

He told me that the only inputs/outputs that would carry HD are Firewire. He said that the VCR will be used with the new Mits HD displays with built in HD STBs that will have Firewire input and output. He also said that there are no immediate plans for an external HD STB with Firewire output.

So I asked him "do you mean that if I want the new HD-VCR from Mits, I have to buy a new Mits HD RPTV?" His answer..."yes!"

Lee
Well that will be useful for all of us and our current FW HDTV display devices. Oh wait a minute there are no current FW HDTVs. What use is it without component/RGB outputs?

Regards,

Brian
post #26 of 42
Quote:
Originally posted by kelliot:
I was at a Good Guys today and there may also be a Panasonic recorder according to the salesman who had just had his fall HD training.
Wow! September looks to be an interesting month with 3 different brands of HD D-VHS recorders coming.

Quote:
Originally posted by btmoore:
What use is it without component/RGB outputs?
Wasn't the JVC due to come with component outputs (didn't the Japanese version of the JVC D-VHS unit have a D-connector component output?).

I'm not a business expert but it seems to me that with something like 1 million HDTV's sold, the company that comes out with a firewire STB and D-VHS with component outputs will make a killing overnight. I'd buy this combo in a heartbeat - perfect quality HD recording from DirecTV at last.

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"You can't argue with a confident man"
- Napoleon Wilson, Assault on Precinct 13
post #27 of 42
A local retailer is advertising the new Mits. D-VHS (HSD2000) for $995. I don't know if they actually have the unit in stock or not. According to the specs the unit has no HD analog outputs or inputs only IEEE-1394. It does have composite and S-video inputs/outputs and a NTSC tuner. It also can record in S-VHS and S-VHS-ET. Here is a link to the specs and diagram of back panel http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/PDFs/dvcrspecs.pdf

At this point it looks like a $1000 S-VHS VCR that may be able to record/playback HD in the future with IEEE-1394 TVs.

Jay

[This message has been edited by jerndl (edited 08-07-2001).]
post #28 of 42
As Lee and Jay have touched on, it looks like the new Mitsu 55859 has FW inputs and outputs so that would be one of the sets to match with the VCR. I dont believe the set has a satellite STB built in (not positive) but it does have an OTA ATSC tuner built in so you could record that form of HD with it in the short term, it would seem.

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Dan

Knowledge without experience is only information...
post #29 of 42
According to those specs and the other info on the web site, it looks a lot like the PV-HD1000. Does anyone know if they have any plans to introduce an accompaning STB?

I know that the Japanese DVHS machine worked with the DST50/51, maybe this will too.
post #30 of 42
As I said, Beavis, we need some brave soul to get one and try it...

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Peter
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