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New Vizio P42HD Model "e" Discussion - NO PRICING/COUPON TALK ALLOWED - Page 3  

post #61 of 1829
1/7/05 at 6:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by Idahoguy
That's really good to hear. I think I may pull the trigger on this. I shouldn't. I'm so broke. I just got engaged last week. Ring set me back a SERIOUS plasma TV, not some cheap Vizio.

Ah well.
:D
I've got a similar situation, and I've started looking around my place and seeing what I can put on eBay or places where I can skimp to make up the difference. Last night I thought, "I really don't need heat, do I?"

When it comes down to it, I don't know if I'm going find better (for the price) for 6 months, maybe longer. And 6 months down the line, I probably won't have significantly more money.

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post #62 of 1829
1/7/05 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Nelson
I have compared them both and the "e" had deeper blacks and brighter whites!
Dave -

Can you confirm that the contrast and brightness and color temp. were set the same on the two Vizio sets you were comparing.

I have seen the 'e' version (briefly) at Costco, but didn't have access to its remote and the brightness and constrast were clearly not optimum (probably at the factory default too bright with a far too high color temp.). Given that and the relatively bright store lighting I really couldn't estimate if it was capable or had better a black level than the original P42HD that I have at home. I do plan on returning mine to Sam's Club and picking up the 'e' at Costco, for the cost saving if for no other reason.

Ron Jones
post #63 of 1829
1/7/05 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally posted by Idahoguy
That's really good to hear. I think I may pull the trigger on this. I shouldn't. I'm so broke. I just got engaged last week. Ring set me back a SERIOUS plasma TV, not some cheap Vizio.

Ah well.
:D
Congrats to you IdaoGuy, At least if you buy now you can put the new HD in your prenup:D
post #64 of 1829
1/7/05 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally posted by chicagoster
I'm happy to report that SD (analog) looks just as good on my plasma as it did on my Sony CRT Tube tv. It actually is better because I'm seeing it on a 42" vs. 27" and in widescreen mode!! The stretching is not a factor. I was afraid that everything would look stretched. They do not. The wide aspect and zoom 1, do an excellent job of maintaining image quality. WAF is good with SD. Right now it's a composite feed...can't wait to hook it up via DVI or component.

If your fear of buying this unit is because of bad SD quality - have no fear.

Chicagoster.
Chicagoster,

Did you try S-Video for SDTV source? What was you signal source for SD... Cable, Satellite, OTA or DVD? Did you adjust the picture OSD settings for SDTV? If 'yes' what are your values for:

Brightness
Contrast
Color
Tint
Sharpness
Color Temp

What happens when you select "user" as a Color Temp option? Does another menu pop-up to give the user additional adjustments?

_______
rkhobbit
post #65 of 1829
1/7/05 at 8:25am
When you select User Color Temp you get additional menu settings for individual Red, Blue and Green levels. All picture settings (including user Color Temp., are stored on an input by input basis so they can be adjusted for the best results for each type of source).

Ron Jones
post #66 of 1829
1/7/05 at 9:15am
RK,

My cheapo Motorola STB does not have S-Video output for SDTV. My signal source to Vizio was composite (better than RF). I adjusted picture settings based on Ron's post from prior thread. I've edited your post to show what Ron posted. I'm getting Comcast soon to get a good STB with DVI output!

I'm telling ya's, in Wide with Zoom 1, it's just as good or better than CRT Tube TV. Better cause it's now on 42". No strecthing effect that I can noticably tell. I can't wait for HD cable input.

Chicagoster.


Quote:
Originally posted by rkhobbit
Chicagoster,

Did you try S-Video for SDTV source? What was you signal source for SD... Cable, Satellite, OTA or DVD? Did you adjust the picture OSD settings for SDTV? If 'yes' what are your values for:

Brightness - 54
Contrast - 50
Color - 48
Tint - 50
Sharpness - 1
Color Temp - go to user
R - 40
G- 50
B - 15

What happens when you select "user" as a Color Temp option? Does another menu pop-up to give the user additional adjustments? Yes.

_______
rkhobbit
post #67 of 1829
1/7/05 at 9:18am
Just got mine but not too excited about SDTV quality

I have been following this thread and finally decided to pick one (white box and orange letters with 5000:1 CR) up from Costco. The unit looks beautiful out of box and is extremely easily to set up. I hooked it up to my sat signal and DVD via S-video and played around a bit with brightness, contrast, color, tint, etc. The image from DVD looks pretty good, but I am pretty disappointed with the image quality from sat SDTV. I had my regular tube TV setting up via a regular video cable side by side with the P42HDe. The SDTV images looks better on the regular TV than on the HDTV. I will try to twist the setting a bit to see if I can get better images. The HD unit should suuposdely be used to watch HD sources or DVD, but most times I am still watching SDTV programming.
post #68 of 1829
1/7/05 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Jones
Dave -

Can you confirm that the contrast and brightness and color temp. were set the same on the two Vizio sets you were comparing.

I have seen the 'e' version (briefly) at Costco, but didn't have access to its remote and the brightness and constrast were clearly not optimum (probably at the factory default too bright with a far too high color temp.). Given that and the relatively bright store lighting I really couldn't estimate if it was capable or had better a black level than the original P42HD that I have at home. I do plan on returning mine to Sam's Club and picking up the 'e' at Costco, for the cost saving if for no other reason.

Ron Jones
Ron-

I cannot confirm the settings between both Vizio units. However, I can't imagine that they would mess with any of the settings when being put up for display. While there looking at each unit, both times, I could not find a single person to find a remote for me to check the settings.

What I can say is that the Panny ED that was next to both the P42HD and P42HDe was at the same settings. This being said the Panny had darker blacks and brighter whites compared to the P42HD. However with the the P42HDe next to the Panny it clearly had just as good blacks and whites if not better (probably the same but looked better because of the higher pixel rating)

Did that make any sense?

Dave
post #69 of 1829
1/7/05 at 10:37am
Prosper-

Thaks for your info that the image fills out the screen from 800*600 to 1280*1024.

Now for the other question- can you describe to me how a 4:3 signal (1024*768) from the HTPC looks in a 16:9 format? I just dont get this rectangular pixels thing and how it would affect the display of the HTPC images (Windows desktop, etc). Could you post a pic?
post #70 of 1829
1/7/05 at 10:45am
I have had my original silver Vizio, not the black 'e' version, for about 3 weeks. And I'm trying to determine if my zoom mode is broken.

I can't get the zoom mode to stretch 4:3 SD content. I'm using a TW Pace HD settop box. I've got the Pace set to output 720p at 16:9. When I tune in a 4:3 SD channel i get the black bars on the sides like I expect with the Vizio set to Wide & Normal Zoom. If I choose Zoom 1 or Zoom 2, I get a tiny bit of zoom but the bars don't go away.

The TV stretches 4:3 content just fine through Vizio's native tuner with a straight cable feed. I've also tried changing the Pace box to output at 4:3, but I get the same results. I've tried both component and s-video inputs, and I see no difference. About the only thing I haven't yet tried is using a DVI connection, which I'll try this weekend when I get a new cable.

Can any of you Vizio owners tell me what I'm doing wrong? Or maybe confirm that my set is defective, so that I can return it to Costco and get an 'e" with a clean conscience?:)
post #71 of 1829
1/7/05 at 11:23am
Can someone please suggest the best connectivity option for this monitor? I have satellite that I intended to connect with component. I will then have HTPC that has DVI output for DVD and desktop.

I have not seen posts recently on DVI to DVI for this monitor. There were posts a couple of weeks ago mentioning "black crush" when going DVI with DVD.

My thought originally was to go with the best pq option for the channels that I view most often (non Hd). I having second thoughts now.

Has anyone connected SD to composite or S-video, which would give my DVD and over air HD the component.

thanks
post #72 of 1829
1/7/05 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally posted by LukeH7
I can't get the zoom mode to stretch 4:3 SD content. I'm using a TW Pace HD settop box. I've got the Pace set to output 720p at 16:9. When I tune in a 4:3 SD channel i get the black bars on the sides like I expect with the Vizio set to Wide & Normal Zoom. If I choose Zoom 1 or Zoom 2, I get a tiny bit of zoom but the bars don't go away.

The TV stretches 4:3 content just fine through Vizio's native tuner with a straight cable feed.
It doesn't sound to me like your TV is defective. It sounds to me like your STB is putting the black bars on it, so the TV is receiving a 16:9 signal. And my experience with my P42HD(not-e) is that when it is receiving a 16:9 signal, Zoom 1 and 2 only stretch the picture vertically, not horizontally.

In contrast to your STB, my Samsung 841 upconverting DVD player (connected via DVI) does not put black bars on the sides when viewing 4:3 DVDs. So, if my TV is set to Wide, the image is stretched horizontally to fill the screen. I have to set the TV to Aspect to get it to display the same way you described yours working in 'Wide' mode. Since you said yours is displaying with black bars when the TV is set to 'Wide', I think it must be your STB that is putting the black bars into the image.
post #73 of 1829
1/7/05 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally posted by txstymie
I have not seen posts recently on DVI to DVI for this monitor. There were posts a couple of weeks ago mentioning "black crush" when going DVI with DVD.

My thought originally was to go with the best pq option for the channels that I view most often (non Hd). I having second thoughts now.

Has anyone connected SD to composite or S-video, which would give my DVD and over air HD the component.

thanks
I have my DirecTV DVR (i.e. non-HD Tivo) connected via S-video and my Samsung 841 upconverting DVD player connected via DVI. To me, the DVD player (set to 768p output) looks great. I used the THX optimizer to dial in my settings on the DVI input.

SD content from Tivo is kinda weird. Some stuff looks really good (e.g. a movie I watched last night that was recorded from Cinemax). Then other stuff seems to show a lot of noise (e.g. South Park and The Daily Show w/Jon Stewart). I can only speculate that it's the difference in source quality. A high-quality source has very little native noise, so there's very little noise in the final picture when the TV upconverts it to native resolution. Lower-quality sources (like Comedy Central) have more native noise, which gets magnified by the TV's upconversion, so it looks a lot noisier on this display. Like I said, that's just my speculation. But I have noticed a pretty big difference in quality between different SD shows. The good ones look great! The worst ones look merely "good". And on the worst ones, the difference between watching it from 8' and 10' makes a pretty big difference. The noise is not *nearly* as noticeable from just a couple feet further away.

I am by far NOT a video quality expert, so I really can't comment (usefully) on whether it has issues with black crush, white crush, cherry crush or any other kind of problem like that. :-) With the THX optimizer, I was able to see all 4 shades of white in that part of the test, and able to see the 8 then 7 shades of black in that part of the test. If that tells you anything.
post #74 of 1829
1/7/05 at 11:56am
I stopped by my local Sam's today to see if they had gotten any 'e' models in. They had not. A friend of mine went with me to check out the display model (still a regular P42HD), as he hasn't seen mine yet.

The display model was right next to a $6K 50" Sony HD plasma, so we could really compare them. We both noticed right away that the Sony was much more crisp. Fine detail was much more visible on the Sony. That didn't match my memory of comparing them last week before I bought mine. I noticed that the Vizio was Zoomed, so the picture was stretched. And I conjectured that the contrast and brightness were set way too high. These things together were my theory for why the Sony looked so much better. We looked around for the remote to see if we could adjust the Vizio, but couldn't find it. The Vizio does not have any kind of menu access from the front panel. In frustration, I decided to press the Input button, to see if it *possibly* had some kind of menu access.

To my surprise, I found that the Vizio was set to TV input. Meaning the signal is was displaying was RF/coax/NTSC, not the HD version of the signal that the Sony was. I cycled through the inputs until we got to the YPbPr input and it had the same HD feed that the Sony (and RF input) had. There we go!! When we backed up and compared the Vizio and Sony then, the pictures were nearly identical. The Sony seemed like fine print text was a little tiny bit crisper, but that might have been because it was a 50" and the Vizio is 42", so the text was easier to read because it was actually a little bigger. I went back to feeling VERY good about my much-less-expensive purchase.
post #75 of 1829
1/7/05 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally posted by dvx24p
chicago, mcfarland,

i never considered a plasma and always told my wife, "we'll never get a plasma because it's over priced(my opinion), potential burn-in, and low life expectancy." my feelings have changed these past 2 weeks because of this thread.

mcfarland, i would say this is the deal of last century as well. ;-)
Everyone forgets the "a" in my name. Oh well :(.

I said the same thing to my girlfriend. I thought that LCD (not the projection kind) was going to be it for me, but it's too pricey to even get considered (still better quality in my opinion though). I figured the best I'd do short term would be a RPTV set, but I'm not too excited by the picture on those (though a friend of mine says he thinks they are better). I explored a 34" widescreen CRT, but they are too small, especially when viewing 4:3 content.
post #76 of 1829
1/7/05 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by StuartV
I have my DirecTV DVR (i.e. non-HD Tivo) connected via S-video and my Samsung 841 upconverting DVD player connected via DVI. To me, the DVD player (set to 768p output) looks great. I used the THX optimizer to dial in my settings on the DVI input.

SD content from Tivo is kinda weird. Some stuff looks really good (e.g. a movie I watched last night that was recorded from Cinemax). Then other stuff seems to show a lot of noise ...
Stuart,

Newbie Question: What is THX Optimizer? Is it similar to AVIA?

As for the SD-TIVO, when you record isn't there 3 record quality settings: low, medium and high? And aren't these settings selectable as you setup WISHLISTS and when you push the REC button? Some shows might be on low quality (save disk space) thus grainier TIVO picture and some on high quality for better TIVO picture?

_______
rkhobbit
post #77 of 1829
1/7/05 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally posted by bmacfarland
Everyone forgets the "a" in my name. Oh well :(.

I said the same thing to my girlfriend. I thought that LCD (not the projection kind) was going to be it for me, but it's too pricey to even get considered (still better quality in my opinion though). I figured the best I'd do short term would be a RPTV set, but I'm not too excited by the picture on those (though a friend of mine says he thinks they are better). I explored a 34" widescreen CRT, but they are too small, especially when viewing 4:3 content.
I work for TI and get great deals on DLP's and have always told my wife that when we get the money we are going for a good DLP RPTV! In the end, due to my room conditions, variable lighting situations (lots of windows and indirect sunlight from multiple directions at different times of day) and various viewing angles... I've too opted for plasma and the P42HDe. For price and value-per-dollar spent, it's hard to find a better solution to my particular viewing issues. I can't wait to set up my P42HDe this weekend!
post #78 of 1829
1/7/05 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
ok, Finally made it by Costco today at Lunch.. Here's my own subjective analysis.

THe "e" model was setup right beside the Panny EDTV (consumer model). Costco had a Satellite HD feed via component cables going to all TV's in the store. While I *really* wanted to like this new enhanced model and while the store conditions are a lousy place to make an assesment, I have to say there we're several displays I liked much better.

First off, the Vizio HD display clearly yields more "resolution" and less scan lines than the Panny EDTV. It didn't take much effort to pick off the scan lines on the Panasonic. That said there was noticeble "noise" in the Vizio picture that was completely absent from the Panny. It was very bothersome to my eye. Moreoever, despite the claimed improvements in Contrast and black levels, no matter how hard I tweaked the Vizion Display (I found the remote behind the tv!), I could NOT tweak the display to yield anything that resembled black. At best, it was a dark blue. The panasnoic on the other hand had clearly better blacks. Maybe a service level tweak could produce a better result?

Despite the black level and noise issue, I suspect many would be very happy with the Vizio though. It's not a bad display at all. It's superior in every way to the Akai EDTV it was beside, but frankly, I found the Panasonic (even with the HD Feed) more enjoyable to watch.

Now here' s the kicker. This Costco (in Durham, NC) also had several 26-30" LCD displays. I have up to this point dismissed LCD's because of viewing angles and black levels. Well guess what? There was a 30" Vizio LCD with a high gloss glass screen and the colors and black levels blew me away! In fact, on fade aways, the blacks look almost jet black as compared to the Plasma's. Keep in mind that the store was completely awash in lights, which is another reason why my subjective, 1 hour assesment should be taken with a grain of salt. Still, I was not expecting to be so impressed with the LCD's on display.

Well, I'm glad I went and satisfied my curiosity. Vizio proves that it wont be long before most 42" displays (both ED and HD) will be very reasonably priced. I'm also happy to wait until this summer and pick up a new panny or pioneer that will have both good "glass" and stellar electronics.. I think Vizio is likely using decent glass, but where it breaks down for me is the precision and quality of the electronics driving the display.

Anyway, wanted to pass along for others who are anxious to pick up an HD plasma at what can only be called a very attractive price point. In the end, I'm just a tad to picky to be happy with this display, though it is awfully tempting at these prices.
post #79 of 1829
1/7/05 at 12:47pm
Are you able to see the THX shadow? I can not on my current 1000:1 panel but I can on my HTPC LCD monitor. Just curious. Anyone else?
post #80 of 1829
1/7/05 at 12:53pm
The Vizio won't do a horizontal stretch for a 720p or 1080i signal since officially these signal formats are supposed to the used only for HD wide screen. When you get a 720p output with a 3X4 program from the cable box it is actually being output as a widescreen format image that has had the vertical bars (black or gray) either inserted by the broadcaster before transmission (if a 720p or 1080i broadcast) or have been inserted by the cable box itself (if an upconverted SD broadcast). It has been previously discussed that there is a limitation with the Vizio in that it cannot do a horizontal stretch of a HD format signal.

My solution with the Scientific Atlanta cable HD box provided by my cable company is to setup the cable box's ouput (via DVI) to output 1080i, 720p in their native modes and output 480i at 480p. If watching a SD program I tune to a SD channel (regular HBO instead of the HD-HBO channel) and my cable box will provide a 480p output that can be stretch and zoomed by the Vizio. When want to watch a program broadcast in true HD (ie. 16x9 using 720p or 1080i) then I tune the HD channel.

The key is getting SD material output from the cable box at 480i or 480p and not having the cable box convert everything to 720p or 1080i. Check to see if your cable box's setup menu has options for providing a native output mode.

Ron Jones
post #81 of 1829
1/7/05 at 1:01pm
Hobbit,

I just found it myself on an Ice Age DVD. It is a series of test patterns to help you calibrate your display. I have not seen Avia or Video Essentials, perhaps someone could state whether this is even a valid attempt to correctly find the settings.

Click menu and the DVD will show you "special section" or somesuch. You will find it there.
post #82 of 1829
1/7/05 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally posted by txstymie
Hobbit,

I just found it myself on an Ice Age DVD. It is a series of test patterns to help you calibrate your display. I have not seen Avia or Video Essentials, perhaps someone could state whether this is even a valid attempt to correctly find the settings.

Click menu and the DVD will show you "special section" or somesuch. You will find it there.
Since I have AVIA, I think I'll use it over the THX optimizer on Ice Age. Thanks!

..."or somesuch" ... sounds like you listen to the Hardline on the Ticket.

_______
rkhobbit
post #83 of 1829
1/7/05 at 1:29pm
funny you picked that up!!! I threw it out there on a lark. I live in Frisco and have been listening to their nonsense for about five years.

good luck with your system1

stymie
post #84 of 1829
1/7/05 at 1:34pm
NOTE:

I split this thread and removed all discussion about this company's return policy.

Please go to the link below and refrain from posting in this thread.

The Official B&M Return Policy Disscussion Thread!

All other post will be deleted without notice.

Thanks.

Dave
post #85 of 1829
1/7/05 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Michael_Crawfor
...has anyone gotten information from V-Inc to CONFIRM the reason for the increased contrast ration on the 'e'? Everyone is assuming there's new glass, but there are a couple reasons that might not necessarily make sense. First, was there LG glass that was ever rated at 3000:1? There was glass that was rated lower, and glass that was rated highter (5000:1), but I'm not remembering any at 3000:1. It also seems odd to make a change in such a major component so early in the run. It seems just as likely that it's the same glass, but they had initially gotten the specs written up wrong.

I'm going to write V-Inc tech support with the question, but I thought I'd see if someone here has already done the work.

Michael
MWC
Michael,

Did you get a response from V-Inc?

_______
rkhobbit
post #86 of 1829
1/7/05 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally posted by txstymie
Can someone please suggest the best connectivity option for this monitor? I have satellite that I intended to connect with component. I will then have HTPC that has DVI output for DVD and desktop.

I have not seen posts recently on DVI to DVI for this monitor. There were posts a couple of weeks ago mentioning "black crush" when going DVI with DVD.
I find that DVI provides the best results with the Vizio (less video noise than using component input). I would use DVI for your HD source to get the best possible picture from this TV. The issue of "black crush" relates to the problem that some of the scaling DVD players have when outputting upconverted video via a DVI. Some other such scaling DVD players have a "white crush" problem. Basically this is just a poor job by the manufacturers in implementing DVI on these DVD players. In any case it appears to me that the only type of scaling by the DVD player than would be a real benefit (as compared to using a good progressive scan DVD with 480p output) to a HD plasma (such as the Vizio) would be if the DVD player can output the exact native resolution of the display. Otherwise the Plasma will still need to do scaling again to get it to the display's native resolution. In the case of the Vizio (any many other 42"/43" HD plasmas) its native resolution is 1024 x 768. The only main stream scaling DVD players that supports this resolution are the Samsungs but these are among the players that have not implemented DVI correctly and have problems with black crush.

Ron Jones
post #87 of 1829
1/7/05 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by John W. Morgart
Congrats to you IdaoGuy, At least if you buy now you can put the new HD in your prenup:D
Dude, you are evil.
:p
post #88 of 1829
1/7/05 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally posted by txstymie
funny you picked that up!!! I threw it out there on a lark. I live in Frisco and have been listening to their nonsense for about five years.

good luck with your system1

stymie
Yep! Looking forward to my evening drive home listening to the Hardline... getting home... plop my self on the couch a watch me some HiDef TV on my P42HDe. Life can't get much better!!!

_______
rkhobbit :D
post #89 of 1829
1/7/05 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Noyd
The VIZIO P42HD is being updated their to the P42HDe...

__________________
-Jim Noyd
Jefferson/Acker Advertising + Communications
Representing V Inc., Ultralink/XLO,
PriceGrabber.com, Sherwood Newcastle,
Pioneer DVD, Memorex, BenQ, Iomega

www.acker.com
Jim,

From reading the prior Vizio P42HD thread, it seems like you have some insight into V-INC and the Vizio P42HD and the P42HDe. We would really appreciate if you could post what the actual technical differences are between the Vizio P42HD and the P42HDe? If you could please shed some light on this topic for there will be several of us who would be very grateful.

Thanks,

_______
rkhobbit
post #90 of 1829
1/7/05 at 5:02pm
Nope - haven't heard back yet, but not surprising. Last time I wrote them it took a couple days to get an email response.

Michael
MWC
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panel General & New FP Tech › New Vizio P42HD Model "e" Discussion - NO PRICING/COUPON TALK ALLOWED