Official SED, Info, Discussion, Etc Thread!!! - Page 53  

Some encouraging news

http://avzombie.com/blog/2006/05/23/...stment-in-sed/

I wonder how iFire is going....

will

Yeah, that does sound promising, and while I agree w/what navychop posted I'm also keeping an optimistic viewpoint. Let's hope that article isn't just refurbed SOS, but w/the large infusion of cash that Toshiba/Canon keep flowing into SED it sure looks like they might just make it to market afterall.

well if they plunge that amount of cash into the deal, Japanese face-saving should mean there's no going back

Ran across this update in TV Technology;

http://www.tvtechnology.com/hd_notebook/one.php?id=781
Anyone know just what are/were the issues?

http://today.reuters.com/business/ne...oryID=nT343273

"Price falls in flat TVs have been much steeper than we had anticipated," a Toshiba spokeswoman said.
"We would like to work further on rationalisation of production and cost cuts before an actual launch," she said

In English this means they can't compete economically with current HDTV's. Anyone expect they will be able to by late 2007.... :rolleyes:

Maybe they could make them in the US with all the cheap Mexican labor that is flowing into the country.

Cool, and then we can ship the factory and those jobs back to Mexico. ;)

I still think that price drops in the LCD and PDP market are only part of the problem.

If you look at Isochroma's post they say that they are going to use "conventional" methods to mass produce the first panels. That means that the cost savings that they promised on the panels by using "Printing" technology from Canon to produce them has been set back.

All of this means that they have to use more expensive processes to manufacture (aka LCD type process) the panels. Without those cost benefits, PDP and LCD price drops are hurting them big time.

Some processes for manufacturing the panels have to be done on conventional equipment. The equipment makers such as AKT, TEL, DNS, Tazmo, Nikon and Canon themselves are running at capacity. Lead times for the tools themselves can be as long as 8 months. They may be having problems with getting manufacturing equipment as long as Sharp, Sony/Samsung is needing it as well.

To my eyes from inside the organization of one of the equipment makers it does not look good.

Not a bad plan, bu why not use good ole hard working American workers? Japanese labor ain't cheap, and you have to ask yourself why don't they go ahead and build their new factories over here.

$10 per hour versus 10 cents... do the math ;)

I can do the math. but are you seriously suggesting JAPANESE workers are at this labor scale???? If so, then you better check again.

I do not see much encouraging news in this article. Toshiba states that the most difficult obstacles, without spelling out what the obstacles are, are still to be overcome. I am not encouraged by someone who tells me that we are still trying, we have solved the easy part, and are now going to try and surmount the difficult obstacles. When you show a working model at CES 2005, shouldn't you actually have solved the major problems first. I would love to see SED make it to market, but more and more, I am starting to see Toshiba's CES demonstrations as more Potemkin Village stunts, instead of factual product development. They were promising delivery dates, that based on this article, had to be flat out lies. If at this point in time they are stating that the major problems are still ahead of them, how could they honestly have made the delivery date projections at CES. Looks like we have found some WMD.(Woppers of Mass Deception).

Neat technology, but even further away then any xED technology for the display market...

As TNG pointed out, I think that last "mile to the summit" is likely the manufacturing process, not the actual product.

Like the song says "Que sera, sera.....what will be, will be."

...or..."what will be, will be SED". Rhymes nicely, don't you think!:D

From http://www.tvtechnology.com/hd_notebook/one.php?id=781
If they aren't in full production until 2008 they'll have very deeply entrenched competitors. I wouldn't be surprised to see off-brand 55" plasmas (not 1080p though...) for under $2K by then and 1080p LCDs might be even cheaper given how strong the Chinese panel manufacturers are coming on.

They must have a lot of faith in the technology...

I can guess that they are sticking with it for the same reasons that Intel is sticking with Itanium. If somehow, someway, they can achieve critical mass then the payoff will be huge. They will own all the patents and no one can produce a clone without a license. They are imagining a world 15 years from now where every TV sold is an SED and every manufacturer pays them royalties for each and every set. Visions of $$$ danced in their heads... :D

This sounds to me like a distinction without a difference. If you have not yet solved the most difficult manufacturing obstacles, you have not got an actual product. They still come across as bunch of misleaders who were promising at the last CES show, actually delivery timelines, while they actually had not even figured out how to run viable production methods. Still seems like Potemkin Village tactics to me.

They have viable methods....just not as inexpensive as the printing method they were hoping for/still developing.

As a long-time "SED watcher", I too am beginning to have my doubts. I went to CES last January and spent some time in the Canon & Toshiba booths specifically looking @ SED. What I saw and heard, coupled with the lackluster news to date (we're almost half way through 2006), I'm beginning to think this is a technology that will miss it's market window based on price alone. While I've always been one to "pay for quality", it seems that nowadays the mass market is only willing to look a short distance past the price tag. I've seen some pretty impressive (large) 1080p LCD displays lately as well.

Because the upper class, over paid, under worked business lords won't pay a wage that the workers are worth and can live on.

You can't live on what Mexicans will work for.

Typical leftie ignorance.

Ignorance exactly where? BTW, I'm right handed.

"Overpaid" may be a subject of legitimate debate--I would argue that market forces should be allowed to come into play.

But "Underworked" is just ludicrous when it comes to the vast majority of successful executives. They just don't get there by being lazy. They sacrifice more than the rest of us are willing to to get to the top--just a fact of life.

As to what criminals are paid, no, I wouldn't want to live on those wages...but plenty of people who are waiting in line to come here legally would.

And I'll grant your point that the wages should be higher...And if we had legal immigration, market forces would dictate that they would be. And both sides should follow the law.

I guess what got me started was your assertion that these folks--"Upper class" are "Underworked."

And I'm certainly no economist...Just someone who gets tired of hearing all the same old cliches....:)

If my memory serves me , I remember Toshiba considering abandoning lithographic printing of the phosphors in favor ink-jet printing.

now I'm off to play some poker, Back in 2 years all

Will

As someone who lives in the Bay Area of CA, my salary makes me RICH as considered by the CA tax code. Yet there are some months where the bills are hard to pay. My mortgage alone is more than what most people that live in other areas of the country take home in a month.

Every body has a cross to bear, keep the politics out of these discussions please. Things get ugly down that road.

BTW, Mike53 says that allot of the sets that Sharp makes are "assembled" in Mexico.

Canon invented the "Bubble Jet" printing process.

Why is one persons 'time' worth hundreds or thousands of times more (per hour, per day, per year) than someone else??

It's no "cliches".

My time is worth $300/hr to my customers and they gladly pay it plus expenses. Why? Because I charge what the market will bear for the skills that I have. Skills that have taken along time to learn. I have invested in myself, and that is the difference.

It is getting ugly, can we get back on topic?

If people would get up off their a$$e$, go out and vote and throw out "every" career/incumbent politician... then maybe things would change. Don't blame our Politicians (sic) & BIG Business for maintaining the "status quo" because most Americans are too "lazy" to go and pull a lever.

With all the good factory jobs we have shipped to Mexico during the past 20 years... I'm amazed anyone would want to "sneak" into this country anymore. :D