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Official SED, Info, Discussion, Etc Thread!!! - Page 55  

post #1621 of 2847
Besides SED, it seems that OLED is the other likely contender for revolutionary market disruption. Two items of the many recently posted: blue emitters are now being reported with 100,000 hours lifetime, and Samsung (the current leader in this field) has pushed their volume production plans three months ahead of schedule.

There's been accelerating advancement in the technology as of late; SED watchers may be interested in this thread, where recent developments are posted:

OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread

Compared to SED, OLED has certain advantages. First, technicals:

1. Lifetime and luminance will both be significantly greater than SED.

2. Circuitry will be more efficient, use lower voltage, and cheaper. OLEDs require only a few volts to operate, while plasma uses 100+ and SED will use "tens" of volts for the emitter but require kv (thousands) of volts for the acceleration field.

3. Response time is measured in nanoseconds; there is no phosphor decay time as with CRT, plasma, and SED. Moving images will have a sharpness that cannot be matched by any other technology.

Finally, economics:

4. OLED can be produced on current LCD production lines with minimal modification.

5. Its construction is much simpler than plasma or SED; for example, the organic material can be printed with bubble-jet printheads. Though this has been proposed for SED, no displays have actually been successfully fabricated using this method, while OLEDs have been.

6. More companies are actively developing the technology, and it already has a market in smaller sizes.
post #1622 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland
27" postage stamp!. Wow. What the hell size envelopes are you using?. You must have to work your saliva glands overtime to get the stamp licked. :D :p :p :D
Not if your viewing distance is 9+' !!!!!:D
post #1623 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG
Yes I consider LCD (FPD LCD at least) mature. Most offerings now are featuring sub 10ms response time and soon almost all of the panels out there mid range and above should offer 1080p. Color systems for the panels are getting better, and this is the area that could use some major work. LED's will help but there will be problems with that as well.
Well, I still don't like LCDs because of black level, sample and hold effect and viewing angle. Sure, these things are improving, but they're not there yet IMHO.

My Pany plasma is ok, but I'm not fully satisfied with black level and motion display, either.

So while these technologies might be "mature" in the sense that they are in an "ok" state, they're not quite good enough yet IMHO.
post #1624 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
My Pany plasma is ok, but I'm not fully satisfied with black level and motion display, either.
If you are not satisfied with the Black level on your plasma, you are very hard to please. Panasonic makes some of the finest plasmas (IMO) out there. I have always thought that plasma black levels, even on some of the crappy models put even a good CRT to shame.

I am not sure that it will be any better with a SED.
post #1625 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
My Pany plasma is ok, but I'm not fully satisfied with black level and motion display, either.

Quote: Posted by TNG
If you are not satisfied with the Black level on your plasma, you are very hard to please. Panasonic makes some of the finest plasmas (IMO) out there. I have always thought that plasma black levels, even on some of the crappy models put even a good CRT to shame.

I am not sure that it will be any better with a SED.

TNG
With all due respect, I don't think you have seen a properly set up CRT. I have both, a 9" CRT front projector, and a NEC plasma. The plasma give a wonderful picture with adequate blacks for a room with ambient light, but no where near the black level of a crt in a light controlled room.
I look forward to SED.
Gary
post #1626 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Gleave
TNG
With all due respect, I don't think you have seen a properly set up CRT. I have both, a 9" CRT front projector, and a NEC plasma. The plasma give a wonderful picture with adequate blacks for a room with ambient light, but no where near the black level of a crt in a light controlled room.
I look forward to SED.
Gary
What he said! :eek: Panny makes some of the best plasmas out there in regards to black levels but they're nowhere close to quality CRT levels! This and the fast motion issues, viewing angle, generally lower/unsquare resolution (I know, 1080p's are coming :rolleyes: ) which is why I just can't get excited about paying $3500+ for a measly 42" version of either of these tech's. Now SED reportedly solves pretty much all those issues (particularly black levels and fast motion) and hopefully when they make them, after a few years I'll be able to afford one. At least I would have a lot less of problem paying $4k-$5k for a tech without all of those shortcomings.
post #1627 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG
If you are not satisfied with the Black level on your plasma, you are very hard to please. Panasonic makes some of the finest plasmas (IMO) out there. I have always thought that plasma black levels, even on some of the crappy models put even a good CRT to shame.

I am not sure that it will be any better with a SED.
Maybe my plasma is not optimally set up. But I know for sure that no matter how much I was tweaking the image in my initial setup testing, I was never able to get anyway near 0 light output. It was always only different shades of dark gray.

And yes, according to several reports of people on these forums which have seen SED (some of which I trust a lot), the black level is truely black and not dark gray with SED. That combined with the better motion display and better fill rate makes me want SED. Of course I'm hoping that SED won't bring its own new share of problems.

I should add that I really like my plasma, but that doesn't stop me from wanting even better PQ.
post #1628 of 2847
[quote=TN Panasonic makes some of the finest plasmas (IMO) out there. I have always thought that plasma black levels, even on some of the crappy models put even a good CRT to shame.
.[/QUOTE]

While Panasonic Plasma displays are one of the best in producing blacks, it really can be better. CRT's are commonly regarded by professional reviewers as the contrast standard by which all other displays are measured, but have thus far failed to match, much less surpass. Period.
post #1629 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy
While Panasonic Plasma displays are one of the best in producing blacks, it really can be better. CRT's are commonly regarded by professional reviewers as the contrast standard by which all other displays are measured, but have thus far failed to match, much less surpass. Period.
However...I'm not up to the latest tech news (if any :) ) on CRT, but I remember that my 2nd gen WEGA xbr had pretty grey blacks, even worse than many plasmas that I've seen today.
post #1630 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy
While Panasonic Plasma displays are one of the best in producing blacks, it really can be better. CRT's are commonly regarded by professional reviewers as the contrast standard by which all other displays are measured, but have thus far failed to match, much less surpass. Period.
Is there anything like a 65" CRT TV? :D How much does it weigh... ~1000 lbs? :eek: How can I wall-mount that sucker? :confused:
post #1631 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity
Is there anything like a 65" CRT TV? :D How much does it weigh... ~1000 lbs? :eek: How can I wall-mount that sucker? :confused:
LOL :D
post #1632 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity
Is there anything like a 65" CRT TV? :D How much does it weigh... ~1000 lbs? :eek: How can I wall-mount that sucker? :confused:
I know, my 40XBR weighs in at 300lbs.! I parked the beast in the corner and it ain't moving, but what gorgeous PQ in a 40" Tube. My sister's family has a 55" CRT Mitsibushi RPTV that has fantastic color & contrast w/excellent black levels, but of course you have to deal w/the big box footprint and off-angle viewing problems inherent w/RPTV's. I bought my TV in late Dec. 2002 when 50" Elite Plasma displays were going for $15,000! I've still got about 18 months left on CC's EW before my next HT upgrade, and hopefully by then I'll have a line of very good 1080p Plasmas to choose, and just maybe a line of fantastic 55+" SED's thrown into the mix
post #1633 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity
Is there anything like a 65" CRT TV? :D How much does it weigh... ~1000 lbs? :eek: How can I wall-mount that sucker? :confused:
Try plying it with Candy, Flowers, Liquor, and Soft Porn to first get it in the mood. Don't mention the weight, might be a romance killer. :eek: :eek: :eek:
post #1634 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity
Is there anything like a 65" CRT TV? :D How much does it weigh... ~1000 lbs? :eek: How can I wall-mount that sucker? :confused:
...lol yes funny :p ... but honestly, does wall mounting your display effect the PQ...? Didn't think so ;)
post #1635 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy
I know, my 40XBR weighs in at 300lbs.! I parked the beast in the corner and it ain't moving, but what gorgeous PQ in a 40" Tube.
Try watching two 50-year-old-men move around a ~230 lb. Panasonic CT-36HL42 CRT-TV... it isn't pretty. :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland
Try plying it with Candy, Flowers, Liquor, and Soft Porn to first get it in the mood. Don't mention the weight, might be a romance killer. :eek: :eek: :eek:
No wonder the young-ones stopped looking... ;) After taking a side-view look at my middle-aged waistline... :eek: I see what you mean. :o

the good news is... it's still smaller then my age which happens to be the same number as my 50" PDP :D
post #1636 of 2847
I saw SED at CES and was sincerely impressed. Not much other than the UBER high end Sony stuff really looked great to me. I'm VERY dissappointed by the delay. They said by the end of this year it would be out. I was hoping that would mean they'd have much BIGGER ones at a more reasonable price by the end of next year.

I would have been happy to replace my main TV with a 70+" SED by the end of next year. I'm doubting that will be possible. I sure hope some drastic improvements are made with some other technology as I would like a nice 1080p TV that actually looks better than my nice Mits 65" RPTV.
post #1637 of 2847
Reading though things like this
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy
While Panasonic Plasma displays are one of the best in producing blacks, it really can be better. CRT's are commonly regarded by professional reviewers as the contrast standard by which all other displays are measured, but have thus far failed to match, much less surpass. Period.
Do I need some education? Or maybe I have been looking at the wrong stores. I have never considered rear projection as a "CRT". To me RP is RP if it uses CRT or LCD it is still RP, same holds true for front projection. I say CRT and I am thinking Big Tube.

PLEASE direct me to the place where I can see a Tube CRT that when it is on, with no input will look BLACK in a dark room.

I realize that I can't hold LCD FPD to this standard either, but as has been mentioned size plays a part.

Someone educate me
post #1638 of 2847
Umm you lost me....?

No where in that quote there did he say RPTV's are only CRT or CRT's are the only RPTV.....?

Also most displays will not show a black screen with no video signal, as far as I know it's usually blue :p If you send a calibrated CRT a black video signal however, it will appear much closer too, if not completely black particularly when compared to a LCD or plasma.

As for judging displays in the "wrong stores" most stores do not have their displays calibrated in the least and are usually feeding them a split garbage signal under bright lights... so it's not really the best place to judge any set IMO.
post #1639 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by aud19
Umm you lost me....?

No where in that quote there did he say RPTV's are only CRT or CRT's are the only RPTV.....?
This is why I ask these questions. Especially here in this thread. Will SED have a black that is better than all that have come before? People here that have seen it say that it is the best that they have seen, or at least better than average. Will it compare to the current best black? CRT is the best as I have been told, but I don't see it, maybe I am expecting to much?

BTW, love the tag line. So true, neither are cheap
post #1640 of 2847
Anyone have any news from the current SID conference and exibition. iFire is listed as one of the participants. Does anyone know if they have a product demonstration, or are still just trolling for additional partnerships. I did not see anything listed about SED. Anyone know if Toshiba/Canon are attending.
post #1641 of 2847
Black blacks are nice in concept, but it is shades of gray, especially dark gray, that gives us low-level detail and life-like pictures.
post #1642 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901
Black blacks are nice in concept, but it is shades of gray, especially dark gray, that gives us low-level detail and life-like pictures.
This sounds right to me. I have an old LCD PC monitor that can display deeper blacks than the hobs of hell, but it can not render any type of realistic video images. As most things in life, the difficult things are seldom Black or White, but the gradations in between.
post #1643 of 2847
That's still a problem with plasma/LCD, they can't render the darkest greys properly or smoothly and tend to crush them leving you with a flat, grey picture rather than a 3D like image with shadows and textures.

And yes, from the reviews I've heard of people who have actually seen SED (I am not lucky enough unfortunately), they have as good or better blacks/shadow detail as the best CRT's.
post #1644 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland
Anyone have any news from the current SID conference and exibition. iFire is listed as one of the participants. Does anyone know if they have a product demonstration, or are still just trolling for additional partnerships. I did not see anything listed about SED. Anyone know if Toshiba/Canon are attending.
Thank you for your interest in iFire Technology.

iFire Technology will have panels on display at two open house events
and at an iFire-hosted cocktail reception at SID 2006, June 4th to 9th
in San Diego.

Barry Heck, President & CEO of The Westaim Corporation, will also be
presenting as part of an SID/SG Cowen investor conference.

Regards,

Gillian

Gillian McArdle
Investor Relations
The Westaim Corporation

This is a reply to an e-mail sent asking about i-fire showing at SID, if anyone knows anymore i would love to hear about it, thanks in advance.
post #1645 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by klownloach
Thank you for your interest in iFire Technology.

iFire Technology will have panels on display at two open house events
and at an iFire-hosted cocktail reception at SID 2006, June 4th to 9th
in San Diego.

Barry Heck, President & CEO of The Westaim Corporation, will also be
presenting as part of an SID/SG Cowen investor conference.

Regards,

Gillian

Gillian McArdle
Investor Relations
The Westaim Corporation

This is a reply to an e-mail sent asking about i-fire showing at SID, if anyone knows anymore i would love to hear about it, thanks in advance.
Thanks for the update. It is good to see that they are still in the game. The fact they are demonstrating panels would appear to indicate that the pilot plant runs were satisfactory. I sure hope that someone get to see the demos, and gets as much detail on performance specs as is available, and posts the information on here. Still no one with any knowledge of any SED activity at this Conference. Anyone heard anything about Toshiba/Canon there?.
post #1646 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by klownloach
Thank you for your interest in iFire Technology.

iFire Technology will have panels on display at two open house events
and at an iFire-hosted cocktail reception at SID 2006, June 4th to 9th
in San Diego.

Barry Heck, President & CEO of The Westaim Corporation, will also be
presenting as part of an SID/SG Cowen investor conference.

Regards,

Gillian

Gillian McArdle
Investor Relations
The Westaim Corporation

This is a reply to an e-mail sent asking about iFire showing at SID, if anyone
knows anymore i would love to hear about it, thanks in advance.
According to the SID (Society for Information Display) website, SID 2006 is at the Moscone Center in San Francisco, June 4-9. Since iFire is located in Toronto, Canada, and I doubt that they are hosting a coctail reception in In San Diego for a San Francisco event, methinks Gillian is geographically challanged. A dissapointment for me, as I am in San Diego County.
post #1647 of 2847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonypaul
According to the SID (Society for Information Display) website, SID 2006 is at the Moscone Center in San Francisco, June 4-9. Since iFire is located in Toronto, Canada, and I doubt that they are hosting a coctail reception in In San Diego for a San Francisco event, methinks Gillian is geographically challanged. A dissapointment for me, as I am in San Diego County.
Wow. Those that get mislead, and go to San Diego, will sure need a stiff cocktail when they finally make it to Frisco. No not that kind of Frisco Cocktail you gutter snipes!. :D
post #1648 of 2847
I think I'm glad I don't know what you mean by that?......:rolleyes:
post #1649 of 2847
So will SED be available come Christmas 2008 in anticipation of the analog cut-off? If it isn't out by then it isn't going to come out!
post #1650 of 2847
Ok I made a thread about SED and I didn't see this one til someone pointed it out to me. And I don't feel like reading 55 pages, so maybe if someone could help me out with some answers to my questions. Here's what I had posted in my other thread:

Sounds like an awesome new format according to IGN. They've got me convinced. I was about to buy a Samsung LN-S4051D LCD panel at the end of this year. Should I wait for the SED panels? They should be out by the end of the year according to the above article. I wonder how expensive they will be? I was getting ready to fork over about $1800-2000 for that 40" Samsung panel. Do you think I will be able to get a similarly sized SED panel for around the same price?

And what does this new format mean for ISF calibrators? Will it be easy for them to learn the new SED's and how to work them? UMR where are you...
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