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Battlestar Galactica on SciFi HD - Season 4 - Page 290

post #8671 of 10191
These last few episodes have been such a let down. It seems like they needed 4 or 5 episodes for filler. I don't see why it was important to see Lee chasing a pigeon around the apartment, plus numerous other things. Just useless to me. The best part of this episode was the last 5 minutes, it really started to pick up. I am completely let down by this entire season. What a shame.
post #8672 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandOG View Post

Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I think the last two posts are so off base. How do you know there won't be payoff to the flashbacks when you haven't even seen the last two hours of this episode?

If people want to watch action and space battles then I politely suggest you spin your favorite DVD with said content. If you want well-written character driven storytelling then keep watching BSG.

[/rant]

Its true I don't know the payoff of the flashbacks, but to me they failed to move the plot forward from the week prior.

I didn't say that because I was irate about the lack of explosions (albeit, I didn't say anything). To the contrary - this series has a host of open ends to tie down. At the end of the ep prior we already saw Anders the hybrid, and Hera the carrot. Let's get on with it.

I am done ranting. I'll just wait for Friday with the rest of us.
post #8673 of 10191
Man, this show sucks. After next week, I'm DONE.
post #8674 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

I don't know if those that are complaining are saying that they want 3 or 4 hours of space battles to end the series. I certainly don't feel that way, but I also would have preferred the final assault to have happened last week. Not because I want more "action", but because if there is going to be 1 hour of battle and 2 hours of plot development - I'd rather have that plot development involve the disposition of the fleet and the humans'/cylons' future, not stuff that leads to the battle we already know is coming, and certainly not stuff from the past (pre-series).

It's not about more battles, it's about moving the story as far as possible beyond the events we already know are going to happen.

Amen
post #8675 of 10191
yep, the dismissive "go watch your pew pew lasers" comments in this thread and other places in the internet this season have been needlessly insulting.

All some of us want is a plot that moves forward and characters that make sense. Some of you make it sound like we're sacrificing action for all this great character development when from where many of us sit we're sacrificing great character development and plot for redundant character development and inconsistent character development with time running out to tie up the plot (and God forbid we actually want answers).

I don't care if there's another shot fired, all I want is good storytelling.
post #8676 of 10191
Talk about perfect timing...

I saw an article in my local newspaper (San Diego Union-Tribune) today (March 16, 2009) that two black holes that are orbiting each other at a distance of about 1/3 light year appear to be on a collision course that could have major repercussions for the space-time continuum.

Gods, we're frakked!!
post #8677 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

TV Notes
Sci Fi Channel Has a New Name: Now, It's Syfy

Doesn't matter what they call it, the channel is still going to be 90% crap, for no good reason that I can see. Especially now that BSG is ending.
post #8678 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by clevername View Post

yep, the dismissive "go watch your pew pew lasers" comments in this thread and other places in the internet this season have been needlessly insulting.

All some of us want is a plot that moves forward and characters that make sense. Some of you make it sound like we're sacrificing action for all this great character development when from where many of us sit we're sacrificing great character development and plot for redundant character development and inconsistent character development with time running out to tie up the plot (and God forbid we actually want answers).

I don't care if there's another shot fired, all I want is good storytelling.

I think if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that this series has been fantastic storytelling. TV just don't get no better than this, frankly. But the bellyachin' has been a little much. This show has developed its characters and maintained their core personalities and motivations even while showing necessary growth better than any show I can remember. If you want to see the opposite, try 'Heroes' where the cast changes motivations and entire personalities from week to week.

The thing to remember is this is basically one man's vision, augmented by some amazingly creative people. They got to tell the story they wanted to tell, and end it on their terms. I have no doubt that had the ratings been 5-7 million/week, like 'Closer' for example, we would have had a richer, more vibrant show with a lot more vfx and more of the space battles that some tune in for (and little else, apparently). But they always had to work with what they had, and it was amazing what they were able to do considering the constraints of being a little seen (even if much praised) cablenet show.

So the ending is coming up, and guess what? It won't satisfy everybody. I have no doubt that no matter what happens, we'll be subjected to several posters whining about how awful it was and how it just didn't measure up to.... well, they don't quite know but they do know it should have been better, dadgumit! And that's the thing. This is one guy's vision, not yours. I'm perfectly happy to let him tell the story he wants to tell and I'm quite sure I'm going to frakkin' love it no matter how or even if all the major plotlines are resolved to my high-fallutin' satisfaction. I'm just grateful we got something this good to enjoy and talk about these last 6 years. Judging by the anemic ratings, and the comments from some here who just never got what the show was really about, it's more than we deserved.
post #8679 of 10191
Great post, GrouchoDude!

I have never felt BSG was or should have been about all-out space battles. But it has done those types of things quite well when it did.

It's about the CHARACTERS. Their very real human feelings, foibles, worries & dreams. I think that, while it is/was never a ratings bonanza, many of those who do watch it are not all necessarily sci-fi fans.
post #8680 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

Great post, GrouchoDude!

all-out space battles

It's about the CHARACTERS.

I want both... :-)
post #8681 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyLite View Post

All I can say is: Tricia Helfer has done one remarkable job.

She helped to make BSG what it is.

When her character killed the baby in the mini series the taint of Galatica 1980 was cleansed from my brain.

Of course now that BSG is ending Glen Larson is thinking of doing a movie so the taint may be back! Maybe there is something to "All this has happened before, and will happen again.." stuff.
post #8682 of 10191
I second Groucho.

This half season, while admittedly uneven (just like ALL the other seasons) has had some tremendous moments in it. Just a few of the high points for me this season: The mutiny was absolutely brilliant. Fantastic edge of your seat tension - smartly written, brilliantly acted. One of the best story arcs in any show ever.

The second high point for me was the piano player episode. I was worried about this one early on, but the characters played it so well, I was practically in tears when Starbuck "figures it out" and duets with her "father." That moment when the camera pulls back and upwards and her father and the she are playing that song - then to Tigh with that wonderful expression only he can muster, saying "What the Frak!" - then to that very special moment when they were done playing and she "blows" out the finger - Starbuck was simply in her father's presence smiling at him, until Tigh pulls her out of that hallucination. That was one of the best moments for me for this series.

The boomer escape with Hera was also well-done with Tyrol in that fantasy-land house? This was a very good moment as well.

These are off the top of my head. I think we expect so much brilliance out of this team that when they land a dud - it truly is a dud - and stands out more prominently than in other series that aren't as good.
post #8683 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrouchoDude View Post

I think if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that this series has been fantastic storytelling. TV just don't get no better than this, frankly. But the bellyachin' has been a little much. This show has developed its characters and maintained their core personalities and motivations even while showing necessary growth better than any show I can remember. If you want to see the opposite, try 'Heroes' where the cast changes motivations and entire personalities from week to week.

The thing to remember is this is basically one man's vision, augmented by some amazingly creative people. They got to tell the story they wanted to tell, and end it on their terms. I have no doubt that had the ratings been 5-7 million/week, like 'Closer' for example, we would have had a richer, more vibrant show with a lot more vfx and more of the space battles that some tune in for (and little else, apparently). But they always had to work with what they had, and it was amazing what they were able to do considering the constraints of being a little seen (even if much praised) cablenet show.

So the ending is coming up, and guess what? It won't satisfy everybody. I have no doubt that no matter what happens, we'll be subjected to several posters whining about how awful it was and how it just didn't measure up to.... well, they don't quite know but they do know it should have been better, dadgumit! And that's the thing. This is one guy's vision, not yours. I'm perfectly happy to let him tell the story he wants to tell and I'm quite sure I'm going to frakkin' love it no matter how or even if all the major plotlines are resolved to my high-fallutin' satisfaction. I'm just grateful we got something this good to enjoy and talk about these last 6 years. Judging by the anemic ratings, and the comments from some here who just never got what the show was really about, it's more than we deserved.

that's kinda the point for many of us. We've been through this whole thing and have seen great storytelling and compelling characters...only to see it all fall apart at the end.

It's not that we didn't appreciate what the show is truly about, it's that we feel like it's dropped the ball and done so at the climax.

I think we have every right to be disappointed that it's not meeting our expectations as our expectations were built up by what came before.
post #8684 of 10191
Great post GrouchoDude, best I've seen on many forums about the end of Battlestar Galactica...
post #8685 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeowMeow View Post

Let's just be flat-out honest. BSG has wasted a lot of time pursuing dead ends. And it cost the quality of the show dearly.

Season One towers over the other three seasons for a simple reason: it's the only time the story has a real sense of urgency. Watch 33, and then watch your choice of the best episodes from the later seasons. While the later seasons have great moments, nothing compares to that initial sense of horror at the relentless pursuit of the Cylons (back when they were still scary).

Once they wrapped up the Kobol plotline, the show fell off the cliff. Worse, the one interjection that fell urgent was Admiral Cain -- and they killed her after three episodes in the dumbest, most disposable way possible. This was followed by the worst episodes of the series. Then a fairly mediocre third season where the show largely saved itself with the most shocking reveal possible (Saul is a Cylon!!).

For a show that was always planned to fold after a set number of episodes, BSG has proceeded at a leisurely pace for a long time.

And I'll give credit where credit is due. For example, I'm still astounded that the inclusion of All Along the Watchtower has a coherent explanation. I think bringing Saul to the fore as a Cylon was one of the greatest strokes of writing ever.

But, like everyone else who has watched the show, I feel it owes me something. We've taken the good with the bad. More correctly, we've taken the supreme awesomeness with the dear-gawd-make-it-stop-turn-it-off.

The show owes us something because we've trusted it this long, despite less than solid evidence that even the writers know how this will end.

That's the tensions we, as fans of the show, now feel. We're this close to being good and pissed, because we feel the show owes us. Big time.

+1
I could not agree more. I don't watch for the space battles. I watched because of the mind expanding creative premise, the issues of humans vs cylons and humanoid spylons and the initially great character development. For example, watching Boomer confront her cylon self was epic.

Since those early seasons we've seen a rudderless plot where really stupid hours were wasted on water stuff, long sonorous and boring political committee meetings (the only good thing about Zarek was machine gunning the chattering pols). For example the fact that RDM & Co admitted that they had not set up the story with the Final Five known to the writers demonstrated a "we'll write each episode for itself" mentality which sometimes succeeds but often dissapoints.
post #8686 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by clevername View Post

that's kinda the point for many of us. We've been through this whole thing and have seen great storytelling and compelling characters...only to see it all fall apart at the end.

I absolutely could not disagree more. It's all coming together at the end as all these plotlines converge and resolve. If you can't see that, then you've really missed the whole point of the show. I might suggest the original series for those who feel the way you do; it's a bit easier to follow.
post #8687 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by philw1776 View Post

+1
For example the fact that RDM & Co admitted that they had not set up the story with the Final Five known to the writers demonstrated a "we'll write each episode for itself" mentality which sometimes succeeds but often dissapoints.

I think you're not giving them enough credit. They had a pretty good idea that the Chief was going to end up as a Cylon from as far back as the counseling scene with Cavil. Clearly, they knew what they were going to do with Starbuck and entire concept of "all this has happened before and will all happen again" much earlier than that, the culmination of which will be revealed in a few days. Remarkable stuff, all of it.

RDM has stated repeatedly that he had a general idea where the story was going to go from the beginning. But nobody can plan out every single detail up front in something as complex and necessarily flexible as a television show, and this was simply as good, and at least as complex, as serialized television has ever been. They didn't start with an end-date. The brilliance comes from creating a good enough outline so that the details can be filled in with confidence and authenticity as the show evolves. No doubt that mission has been accomplished.
post #8688 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrouchoDude View Post

I absolutely could not disagree more. It's all coming together at the end as all these plotlines converge and resolve. If you can't see that, then you've really missed the whole point of the show. I might suggest the original series for those who feel the way you do; it's a bit easier to follow.

dude, that's the kind of crap we're talking about.

I guess you're just better than us, huh? Us simpletons just can't grasp the grand storytelling they're throwing up on the screen right now?

I'm checking out of this thread. It's useless. I'm sure snide remarks will follow.
post #8689 of 10191
new special tonight on Sci-Fi BTW!


Can't wait!
post #8690 of 10191
We're having a great discussion here, with plenty of people on either side of the argument. As long as we keep it civil then no one needs to check out.

I'm just glad we have a show that creates this kind of passion.
post #8691 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by clevername View Post

I guess you're just better than us, huh? Us simpletons just can't grasp the grand storytelling they're throwing up on the screen right now?

If the shoe fits... Not better than you anyway, just appear to have been paying more attention, that's all. This season has been brilliant - from the destruction of the hub and all that implied for the Cylon race, to the thrilling mutiny arc, to the shocking reveal of Ellen being the Fifth (nobody picked her in our poll), to this final countdown to the endgame. From some of these postings, you'd think some people must have been watching a different show altogether. I can certainly see why they might have preferred the original series, where the balls weren't thrown nearly as high in the air. This remake had much higher aspirations. And it has reached them, IMHO, nearly every week.
post #8692 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason10mm View Post

Come on guys, the ending is clear as day.

"Everything has happened before and will happen again!"

Black holes mean ONLY ONE THING to TV sci-fi writers and audiences, TIME TRAVEL. Thus we are gonna see the Galactica fall into the BH and end up in our distant past, re-populating Earth! As tired and jaded as that angle would be, it would allow them to ignore almost all of the plotlines. The music exists because they already had it, cylons exist because they brought them back, humans exist because they just jumped back. A nice endless loop paradigm.


I thought this about 10 seconds after they started talking about having to jump in close to a singularity.

It's an easy out. I hope we are wrong. Given the amount of time they have to wrap this up it looks like the best answer.
post #8693 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneezy View Post

I thought this about 10 seconds after they started talking about having to jump in close to a singularity.

It's an easy out. I hope we are wrong. Given the amount of time they have to wrap this up it looks like the best answer.

Many of us have long thought it had to be something along those lines. No other way to explain Kara, her premonitions and Roslin's, and a host of other similar stuff. There have been a lot of theories floating around the Internet and almost all of them will turn out to be wrong. Some will be right. Big deal. It's RDM's show and I'm on board with whatever he comes up with as long as it doesn't involve supernatural beings. That's the only thing that would scream "cop-out" to me. Anything else, I'm fine with it.
post #8694 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrouchoDude View Post

It's RDM's show and I'm on board with whatever he comes up with as long as it doesn't involve supernatural beings. That's the only thing that would scream "cop-out" to me. Anything else, I'm fine with it.

What if he fades to black and starts playing Journey?
post #8695 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

What if he fades to black and starts playing Journey?

You're asking the wrong guy. I'm one of the half dozen fans who actually loved 'The Sopranos' ending and thought it was pure genius.

But if the reactions of the actors and production team as they wrapped filming the finale last summer is any indication, we should be just fine. Apparently, the script was incredible and there wasn't a dry eye in the house. I don't expect any here in my house, either.
post #8696 of 10191
IF they decided to go with a time travel route; Kara would probably end up on Earth shortly before the apocalypse. She would teach Sam the song her father played for her and warn him of the coming disaster. The remaining few others could end up on Kobol in the distant past.

Seriously doubt this is the case. But I did think that Ellen would end up being the final cylon way back at the end of season 3, but shrugged it off as unlikely. You never really know where this show is going to go, until they go there.
post #8697 of 10191
What happened to Palladin? Instead of saying the same thing over and over, I agree with his posts 8144 and 8148. They were written nearly a month ago and my opinion hasn't changed much since then. I wonder if he still feels the same way?
post #8698 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by lax01 View Post

new special tonight on Sci-Fi BTW!


Can't wait!

Yup

ScifiHD
Battlestar Galactica: The Last Frakkin Special 10 pm 3.16
post #8699 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrouchoDude View Post

... I'm on board with whatever he comes up with as long as it doesn't involve supernatural beings. That's the only thing that would scream "cop-out" to me. Anything else, I'm fine with it.

....well, you never know. Deus Ex Machina does loosely translate as "god from the machine" and if that's not an open invitation for a supernatural Cylon to step forward and say, "Behold!".....
post #8700 of 10191
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

What if he fades to black and starts playing Journey?

I'll be honest...as much as I love BSG, if Moore ever did that (and I know he said he liked that ending), my opinion of the show would drop so damn fast...
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