24 - on FOX in HDTV - Page 2  

Looks like it'll be another top notch season. I already hope the new Director of C.T.U. gets offed!!

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That is because the data rate is 8Mbps. Way low for HD in my opinion.
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Amen Brother! It looks like crap! They need to fix this. It's not like they do not have the bandwidth to give either.

You cannot give a 720p signal 8mbps average and expect it to not be pixellated and blocky, esp. in high motion scenes.

Why does Fox suck so bad?

:mad:

She is supposed to be. That's what makes the character great. Her part is too big this year though.

Just finished watching it on my TW SA8300HD. I agree with most people about the video but the sound was great! I have only seen a handful of shows from the earlier seasons but I got hooked in tonight! Now that I have the HD DVR I think I will start recording this show.

i agree, nice that fox HQ doesn't go crazy with network bugs like say the wb; the local station here using a small transparent number which is nice.

sound was great, on par with cbs. abc still has the edge with lost and the season premiere of alias having amazing mixes.

i too don't understand why the bit-rate gets so skimpy. the whole fox satellite bandwidth issues goes over my head a little, but it seems like it should be able to do 15mbps anytime it wants if it can do it during football, so why not set the encoder to fill up the entire 15mbps; it doesn't cost any extra. they treat it like cell phone minutes and they are on some cheapo plan.

any pros want to tell me what these descriptors mean???
Descriptor: Multiplex Buffer Utilization Descriptor 80 b4 81 68 ...h
Descriptor: Registration Descriptor Format identifier: 0x47413934 (GA94)
Descriptor: Smoothing Buffer Descriptor c0 9e 37 c0 08 00 ..7...
Descriptor: Registration Descriptor Format identifier: 0x43554549 (CUEI)
Descriptor: ATSC Redistribution Control Descriptor


-------here are the official stats, minus commercials:
1280 x 720, 59.94 fps, 448kbps 48kHZ ac3 5.1, 19.00mbps transport header
actual bit-rate is 8.68mbps video and 468kbps audio
approx 151875 frames/fields

The bitrate is not limited to 8Mbps. The bitrate on FOX network presentations always peaks at over 16 Mbps. Any attempts to calculate the bitrate by using file size vs. time will yield an incorrect result because FOX uses variable bit rate encoding. If you don't have access to an Mpeg analyzer, you won't be able to determine the data rates correctly.

The grainy look of the show is due to the fact that it is shot on 16mm film and has nothing to do with bitrates or HD formats.

Though you can't know the peaks, you can get an average bitrate, which is, in itself, a meaningful value. I don't know the art and science behind it, but I do know that it's possible to get some pretty good looking video in relatively low bitrate VBR--witness the content of HBO and Showtime. It's a mixed bag, but on my cable system, it never exceeds an average of 13.23 on either channel with anything I've recorded and some of it is quite decent. Of course, I've been told that HBO and Showtime receiver most of their content for encoding in 24 fps format and very carefully encode it "by hand" for those bitrates, whilst the broadcasters encode to locally chosen ranges at airtime.

Using filesize calculations, I got an average of 9.54 Mbps. There were no breakup that I saw, though I didn't watch every second of it. (The first season was brilliant, the second decent, but the writing made the third unwatchable--for me--halfway through, so I'm not getting involved this go-round :)). I watched the first half-hour or so, and scanned through the rest for the few brief action sequences it contained and watched those--no break-ups, so it was adequate.

I mentioned this low average bitrate on Fox programming to foxeng in another thread and he replied that there were technical reaons for it and that it would not be that way forever. I've sampled it, and most of it in my area has been around 10 Mbps, with Malcolm in the Middle and some NFL games coming in at 12. This gives it the lowest average rate of any rebroadcast OTA on my system: Fox = 10.55 Mbps, PBS = 11.28, CBS = 12.95, NBC = 15.29 and ABC = 17.03. NBC and PBS are mutlicasting, with PBS carrying an SD channel with their normal analog programming in digital form and NBC carrying their new Weather Plus subchannel. ABC has the most beatiful content, but surprisingly CBS has the next best. CSI: Vegas usually looks great, even at an average 12.77 Mbps (over 10 episodes, sigma = 0.28).

::looking at the mpeg2 video only::
as mentioned in other threads, Scene Change Detection was not found
times in parenthesis indicate similar measurements at that level
times are minus commercials; ** MINOR SPOILER ALERT **

avg bit-rate: 6.596mbps

peak bit-rate: 12.992mbps @ 32m15s (24m37s, 27m14s, 29m33s, )
24m37s = jack's replacement pulls up to laundry mat, camera shakes back and forth, view pointed towards store front from driver's dashboard
27m14s = camera pans across front yard of secretary of states' son, tall blades of weeds, out onto street with moving vehicles
29m33s = son walks in front of sunlit windows covered with partially open horizontal shades, sits on couch
*32m15s = camera pans fast as internet downloader closes outside door, reaches down to unlock bike; bricks in background

the most consistent steady 'violent' scenes for the decoder occurred:
32m10s - 32m44s low of 8.81mbps - high 12.99
=scene change to internet downloader running outside, unlocks bike
40m34s - 41m15s low of 8.04mbps - high 12.22mbps
=secretary in shoot out

low bit-rate: 1.613mbps @ 14m20s (02s, 17s, 27m04s, 35m08s, 42m08s)
-- should be easy to guess this one, these occurred at the commercial breaks when only the digital clock is displayed ticking full screen;
14m20s = 7:14 clock ticking full screen after scene with Turkish family at dining table
17s = 'following takes place between...' msg
02s = viewer discretion advised msg

generally the graph bobs back and forth between 4mbps and 6.5mbps


quantization scale level 12.53peak, 6.95avg
of notice, a consistent low @ 1m55s - 7m40s low 2.46 - hight 7.44
VBV Buffer Size: 488

Nice slap at Michael Moore! HaHa! Gota love Fox!

The show has always had a grainy look to it. It's like that on the DVDs for the previous seasons.

They didn't "get rid" of the rest of the cast, the rest of the cast chose to leave for the most part.

Chloe looks hotter this year to me. Must have been working out some in the off season...

NO. I think rum and "24" dont mix for you.:D

Agreed - RickD_99 is officially CUT OFF - the bar is closed ;)

L

I should have clarified it more but I was too angry last night. I have a TS360 and had exactly the same problems as you describe, perfect audio but stuttering on 88, some stuttering but horrible sync issues on Fox 25-1 OTA. I was also looking forward to this which makes me even angrier. I'm guessing tonight will be no better.:rolleyes:

Well, I was directed to this thread concerning the Samsung TS360 bug. Please read in its entirety and then sign this petition for D* to do something. I just got off the phone with them, and unfortunately, I will have to watch the second part of '24' tonight in plain old crappy SD.

I tried watching this in my theater where I use a Samsung 360 and had the same issues - horrible. Moved upstairs to the plasma and HD Tivo and both 25-1 and 88 came in clear as a bell. It is absolutely unacceptable.

Strange thing is that the football game on Fox immediately prior to 24 came in fine on both channels on my 360, without lip sync.

Just a quick word on online petitions. You may want to read about these modern day petitions here before signing. I think you are better off contacting the company directly yourself or the BBB rather than waste your time with these online petitions. It is interesting when you click on this particular online petition there is a banner ad for DirectTV Tivo. Good luck

Correct, any Non-live film based programming in 720p will be unwatchable on the Samsung TS360. Thats why commercials and football (live events) will work fine. The TS360 has problems with pre-recorded 720p signals. Thats why primetime shows and movies on ABC-HD, Fox-HD, and ESPN-HD have problems on the 360. All those channels are broadcast in 720P.

Please read the above mentioned thread and then sign the petition , and more importantly, CALL and COMPLAIN to D*. They need to hear it.

Watched it in Atlanta on Comcast HD. The picture did look a little grainy at times, but I think it has more to do with the cinematography than the HD feed (ie it's supposed to look grainy). Anyway, we had sound problems here about 45 minutes into the first hour and then again at the end of the 2nd hour. I had to switch to the SD channel to capture what they were saying. Comcast still has issues with HD, that's for sure. The same thing happened last year during the Super Bowl, and I bet it happens again this year.

I'm the one that started the petition. I wanted to get a gauge of how many people are having the problem and to show DirecTV that I am not the only one having this problem. By all means, it is probably best to follow up with a phone call and while you are at it email Nicole Martin (customer service manager, office of the president, DirecTV). I am a very frustrated 360 owner also...I did this to put as much pressure on D* that we can to get this problem rectified as quickly as possible.
There is a DirecTV ad on the petition because ************** is a free website to submit petitions...they have to pay for it somehow.

I watched it on my TS360 with no problems. Pulled it in OTA from my local Fox station.

Strangely enough, OTA Fox seems to be fine (for people who can get it OTA). I've seen some complaints about OTA ABC though which leads me to think it's a broadcast issue BUT OTA Fox in New York is fine and the 360 is the only receiver having problems.

I'm another one with the TS360 who couldn't watch it at all because of the picture stuttering problems. Also had audio problems with Desperate Housewives, but the picture was fine.

Correct, OTA transmissions of FOX don't seem to have the issue on the 360. Only the D* feed from satellite, channel 88 or 89.

I'm a first time HD viewer starting Saturday 1/8/2005. Watching through cable on a 100" screen with Infocus 4805 projector. Projector only displays 480p, but the picture is amazing. I know it's not truly HD, but I'm impressed.

I noticed the football games were very crisp and "24" was more film like. Anyway the sound quality is awesome and the neighbor won't leave.

I had a TS-360 (have since switched to the HDTivo) and can confirm that I had the stuttering issue on ESPN SD material. Fox and ABC were not on D* when I was using the 360, so I can't comment on that.

Yeah man, you're totally right. They sexed her up a little this season.

Yes, welcome to the club. If you happen to get ABCE-HD (86) good luck with that as well, it's a bug that seems to affect the receiver when viewing any channel that is 720P while watching anything at 24 fps. Call and complain, or even ask for a replacement box. The more complaints the better chance someone at D* will notice and finally fix this POS.

Is it me...or do you think Jack's "plan" caused the delay and unhappy ending to his replacement at CTU?

Man--working with Jack Bauer is like being a "red shirt" on Star Trek...


Great setup so far....waaaaay better than last season.

I guess I missed that...please don't post any pics.