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Pioneer Elite 59avi Owners Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 2187
Robert,
Double check that the DVI input on your display is supposed to be HDCP-compliant.

If it is, then double check that the HDMI plug is properly seated in the 59avi. Hold it in by hand for 10-15 seconds to see if the connection gets made.

If that doesn't work, your 59avi may have a bad HDMI output. You might need to bring it into a store or someplace else where you can try it on another HDMI TV.
--Bob
post #122 of 2187
Bob-

Yes my DVI in proj. is HDCP compliant. I've had 5 HDCP players hooked into it with no problem. Called Pioneer, and reset the player to new; still did noy recognize HDMI. Made sure HDMI was well seated. Pioneer's (and my) conclusion: defective HDMI in. TRhaks for the help.

Bob
post #123 of 2187
Well, finally had the opportunity to hook-up my new 59AVi and all I can say is the video and audio are outstanding!! My 55TXi loves it's new partner and my 730 RPTV loves the HDMI feed. Still playing with the video navigations and settings. Trying a SACD tonight.

This is an awesome piece of technology!
post #124 of 2187
bspr.....do yourself a favor.....get Floyd's DSOTM as your first SACD. Then prepare to be floored.......
post #125 of 2187
do you guys think $1049 delivered from an authorized dealer is a good price for this unit?
post #126 of 2187
Thread Starter 
Yes.

I paid $75.00 more than that and I was satisfied.
post #127 of 2187
I paid even more that Rob, and it was worth it. But hey, it was from a B & M and this is Hawaii after all. I may be out a few more bucks, but I still go to the beach 4 times a week.
post #128 of 2187
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by graphicguy
bspr.....do yourself a favor.....get Floyd's DSOTM as your first SACD. Then prepare to be floored.......

True, but if you really want to be blown away I would suggest picking up a couple of the incredible audiophile recordings on DVD-A from AIX Records .

I particularly recommend Lawrence Juber's Guitar Noir. You can also get their free sampler when you order something else.

These are truly amazing recordings. I've never heard anything like it. Note that the music on these discs were recorded at 96 kHz/24 bits! And they use MLP.

As good as DSOTM is on SACD, it was still recorded in the early 70's and it just can't compare to what AIX has done with these modern recordings. So, if you really want to see what the 59avi can do with its hi rez capability, give AIX a try!
post #129 of 2187
I just took another look at the MPEG Decoder Test (Title 15 Chapter 7) on DVE. It includes, among other things a red and a blue "bow tie" pattern that shows combing.

The working assumption in previous discussions of this is that this was an example of the "4:2:0 ICP" problem the 59avi is known to have -- a type of de-interlacing chroma problem in the face of video frame rate source content. There is no known workaround for this problem and it is seen by some folks who like to watch a lot of different video based DVDs such as concert DVDs.

However, I just noticed that switching Pure Cinema to "ON" eliminates the problem on this chart! The problem remains visible using "OFF", "AUTO1", or "AUTO2".

Since Pure Cinema "ON" forces *FILM* mode processing, what people have been seeing in this bow tie pattern is evidently not due to improper handling of video based material, but rather a failure to automatically apply film mode processing.

I don't have that much video based material, and I haven't actually noticed "4:2:0 ICP" in that which I do have. But for others seeing problems with what purports to be "video" based material, you might try forcing film mode by setting Pure Cinema to "ON" just to see if that helps.

Doing so may introduce other problems which are worse, however.

[EDITED to correct the name of the problem to the one used in the Secrets tests.]
--Bob
post #130 of 2187
With exchange I paid just over what Rob did from a B&M and I am extremely happy. Rob - I took you up on that Lawrence Juber DVD-A suggestion and it will be waiting for me to listen to when I get home in 3 weeks. DSOTM is a great mix, but I prefer Roxy Music Avalon.
post #131 of 2187
Paul,
As an aside re: your signature, you might be interested in the related theory as regards "smoke". To wit: Once you let the smoke out of something it stops working.

This is obviously true about things like firewood. Once you let all the smoke out it's no good anymore, at least as firewood. But it also applies well to electronic devices. If you let the smoke out of your computer or TV, for example, it will likely stop working.

--Bob
post #132 of 2187
Yes, I understand the theory is that 'smoke makes things work', because once you let it out, they stop working

There is another theory developed by Buckaroo Banzai:

No matter where you go - there you are........

but there is a corollary:

You can't get there from here - you have to be somewhere else first.


Now back to our regulary scheduled posts
post #133 of 2187
Thread Starter 
Paul-

Let me know what you think after listening to the Juber DVD-A from AIX. I am confident that you will be impressed with both the music, and especially the sound quality!
post #134 of 2187
You must be reading my mind because it's the first one I purchased. I've been playing DSOTM since 73' and I swear I'm hearing new vocals and instruments. I was blown away by the clarity of a SACD. Mixing 48 analog tracks into 2 you lose alot of what the musicians were feeling when they recorded the music and this format gives new life to old tracks. Toys in The Attic and Eat a Peach are next.
post #135 of 2187
Rob - based on the short sound clip at AIX I already like the music. I'm a guitar player myself and have had the pleasure of seeing some of the really good ones live over the years. Al DiMeola, John McLaughlin, Paco DeLucia, Steve Morse, Jesse Cook.....can't wait to get home.

One good thing about the AIX discs is I can purchase them in Canada (no border fees and excess shipping) through HMV online (amazon.ca). I'll let you know what I think of the recording.

With my 59AVi I'm doing the BM via an ICBM so until I get a pre-pro with i-Link, everything comes out of the MC analog outputs. Time Alignment is a problem, but I'm sitting close enough to the centre of my speaker setup that it doesn't seem to make that much difference to my ears. With the ICBM at least I get the same BM for both SACD and DVD-A.
post #136 of 2187
Hey Bob -

Just got my 59 today and hooked it DVI to my Fujitsu P50 (30 series). Since you have the exact same setup, can you post your settings?

So far I have:

AUTO2
Direct
1080i

Not sure which res I like best but as you know you can use wide2 on the P50 with 480p, and only wide with 720p/1080i. Since the scaler and deinterlacer in the P50 are very good, I'm inclined to go 480p, but the 1080i is looking good so far (no combing). Using LOTR2 as the ref DVD.

Question - does it look like a different aspect ratio using 480p/wide2 vs. 720p/1080i/wide? For some reason the wide2 mode seems to be a bit wider.
post #137 of 2187
goombawa,
Yes the stretch modes for the lower resolutions on the P50 can be a bit confusing. What you need to do is to get a calibration disc like Avia and put up a wide screen resolution chart so that you can make sure circles in the center and the corners still look like circles. Otherwise you will be distorting your movies.

---------------------------------------------------------

Also -- VERY IMPORTANT -- the DVI input on the P50 ships in a factory default setting that is designed for receiving signals from computers. You need to go and change the setting for the DVI input from it's default (DVI1 as I recall) to the alternate setting (DVI2 as I recall). This is actually specified in the manual as the way to set up for DVD player or set top box source devices but it is in fine print and easy to miss.

---------------------------------------------------------

As far as the 59avi, you are already using the settings I use -- 1080i, HDMI Direct, AUTO2. I also have 16:9 Compressed mode selected for dealing with 4:3 content. You may want to leave that at 16:9 Wide until you are done calibrating.

My current settings on the P50 are:

Contrast -3
Brightness +8
Color +2
Tint -3
Sharpness -8
Picture Mode Fine
Precision Setting Luminance 50
Precision Setting Black Level -1
Precision Setting Color Temperature Standard

The R, G, B, values for User Color Temperature have been left in the factory defaults for Fine mode's color temperature Standard.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

One last hint, I use a Dtronics DVI switch box to switch sources. I find that sometimes the P50 doesn't properly re-do the handshake when I switch from some other digital video source device to the 59avi. The resulting image problems are not so obvious that you would immediately notice them but they are real.

The workaround is to powercycle the P50 *AFTER* the 59avi comes on line. That is, wait for the 59avi to announce on it's front panel that it has set up a DVI connection, then hit power on the P50 remote (to put it in standby), wait 5 seconds or so for the blue light to go out on the 59avi indicating the DVI connection has gone away, and then hit the power button on the P50 remote again.

I do this now as a matter of course each time I set up to use the 59avi.

If you are not using a switch box this may not be necessary, but it's a useful trick to try if you ever see a truly puzzling image defect after having selected the 59avi as input via the DVI.

Once you've done this, the connection will remain rock solid from there on out. So it's only a thing you might need to do when switching from other sources to the 59avi -- i.e., not something you might need to do periodically while watching movies.
--Bob
post #138 of 2187
Bob - you are one of the most thorough posters on this board. I really appreciate you taking the time to post.

I already had the input on DVI2 for some reason, so that was ok. I don't use a switcher. so that's okay as well. However if down the road I get one for my cable box it's good to have that info you posted.


My P50 settings are:

Contrast 0
Brightness +5
Color +2
Tint +5
Sharpness 0
Picture Mode Fine
Precision Setting Luminance 85
Precision Setting Black Level 0
Precision Setting Color Temperature User (229/240/250-RGB)

For whatever reason, my P50 has a slight red push hence my settings.

It's tempting to play with the pic controls on the 59 but then again I don't quite understand the concept of tweaking the source. In theory all the adjustments should be made on the display side (my thinking anyway). I would think you'd want to send the purest signal possible to the panel and then work from there.

I have AVIA but a friend borrowed it last week. Need to get it back. I will say thought that it really didn't make that much of a difference from factory settings when I calibrated it (as you can see by my settings above)
post #139 of 2187
I'm surprised that you don't find that Luminance setting WAY too bright. In my dimmed viewing room I sometimes feel that the Luminance 50 setting is too bright.

I also think you may want to re-look at Sharpness.

When you get Avia again, bring up the Sharpness chart and concentrate on the vertical black lines in the middle of the chart -- forget about the "horizontal frequency sweep" across the bottom.

Turn Sharpness all the way up and you will see distinct white halos around those vertical lines. That's "ringing". Turn Sharpness all the way down and those halos should completely vanish but the lines will look a little fuzzy. Turn Sharpness up slowly to reduce the fuzzies but stop before the first signs of halo start to re-appear.

That's the proper Sharpness setting. The factory default setting of 0 is not as bad as is shipped on some TVs but it is still too high.
--Bob
post #140 of 2187
Quote:


Originally posted by Bob Pariseau
I'm surprised that you don't find that Luminance setting WAY too bright. In my dimmed viewing room I sometimes feel that the Luminance 50 setting is too bright.

I also think you may want to re-look at Sharpness.

When you get Avia again, bring up the Sharpness chart and concentrate on the vertical black lines in the middle of the chart -- forget about the "horizontal frequency sweep" across the bottom.

Turn Sharpness all the way up and you will see distinct white halos around those vertical lines. That's "ringing". Turn Sharpness all the way down and those halos should completely vanish but the lines will look a little fuzzy. Turn Sharpness up slowly to reduce the fuzzies but stop before the first signs of halo start to re-appear.

That's the proper Sharpness setting. The factory default setting of 0 is not as bad as is shipped on some TVs but it is still too high.
--Bob

Since you have your brightness at +8 and black level at -1, I can see how 85 would be really bright. If you put the BL at 0 and lower your brightness a few points you'll see it isn't quite as torchy. However I like a good amount of punch in the pq and in Fine mode (which I use for everything) I need the higher lum to get that punchiness. P.S. I do not have exhibition mode on.

I'll try the sharpness test when I get the Avia disc back.

Do you use any noise reduction? I usually have it off but sometimes try min.
post #141 of 2187
For those interested in the Pio 59avi + IScan HD combo.

I was using 480p over HDMI to the IScan that was then doing the scaling. But I was able (finally got some time off) to try 480i over COMPONENT to the IScan, that is now doing the de-interlacing and scaling, and then out over DVI to my projector from the IScan.

Picture is better, smoother, more film-like. Even the blacks are better. The IScan is doing an awesome job with that 480i signal, even if it's an analog signal. I always tought that 480p over HDMI to the IScan was the way to go, but 480i over component is superior.

And I will stay like that until DVDO will release the patch to pass 480i over HDMI. I use the "professionnal' setting loaded in memory1, Auto2, and 7.5IRE. I was using 0IRE with HDMI direct, but at 480i, 0IRE is unwatchable... like others using 480i in this thread, 7.5IRE is the way to go for me.
post #142 of 2187
LEVESQUE,

I have been out of this thread for a while but remember you being a 'dyed in the wool' Denon 5900 guy...Correct?

Anyways, I like what I am reading about the I-Scan. I, too, have a 59 AVi and considered trying a scaler.

What is the MSRP on a I-Scan with HDMI?? What benefits are you seeing?
post #143 of 2187
I don't believe there is an IScan HD[+] with HDMI. It has DVI input. The "patch" is supposed to trick the HDMI device on the other end that it is HDMI and can accept 480i. But whatever the exact details, you will be able to get 480i into the IScan HD+ from your 59avi.

LEVESQUE,
That goes to show you that an extra D/A and A/D conversion isn't always bad.

larry
post #144 of 2187
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by PooperScooper
I don't believe there is an IScan HD[+] with HDMI. It has DVI input. The "patch" is supposed to trick the HDMI device on the other end that it is HDMI and can accept 480i. But whatever the exact details, you will be able to get 480i into the IScan HD+ from your 59avi.

LEVESQUE,
That goes to show you that an extra D/A and A/D conversion isn't always bad.

larry

We should make it clear that that "patch" is not yet available from DVDO. They are "working on it", but there is no indication of when this would be released, or even if it will work.
post #145 of 2187
Levesque,
Did switching to 7.5 IRE at Component 480i eliminate the yellow problem you mentioned in your PM?
--Bob
post #146 of 2187
Quote:


Originally posted by LEVESQUE
For those interested in the Pio 59avi + IScan HD combo.

I was using 480p over HDMI to the IScan that was then doing the scaling. But I was able (finally got some time off) to try 480i over COMPONENT to the IScan, that is now doing the de-interlacing and scaling, and then out over DVI to my projector from the IScan.

Picture is better, smoother, more film-like. Even the blacks are better. The IScan is doing an awesome job with that 480i signal, even if it's an analog signal. I always tought that 480p over HDMI to the IScan was the way to go, but 480i over component is superior.

And I will stay like that until DVDO will release the patch to pass 480i over HDMI. I use the "professionnal' setting loaded in memory1, Auto2, and 7.5IRE. I was using 0IRE with HDMI direct, but at 480i, 0IRE is unwatchable... like others using 480i in this thread, 7.5IRE is the way to go for me.

It's about time I asked you if you compared the two about a month ago. You could have been enjoying the improvement that whole time. Here's another so you know I'm only razzing you.

I am running the same combo too but don't have DVI or HDMI on my display so I had no choice. It's nice to hear that you find it favorable though as I am also totally impressed. It seems that I have it set up optimally and have never seen a better image to date. My only complaint now is the layer change which I can live with no problem.
post #147 of 2187
If you want a great DVD-Audio disc to demo your system, try:

Ton Koopman - J.S. Bach Organ Spectacular (Warner/Teldec)

Nothing like a grand old pipe organ in an old European church to get that surround feeling.
post #148 of 2187
So do most of you guys think the iscan HD+ does a superior job of deinterlacing on film mode compared to just using the pioneer 59 avi straight to the display? I am trying to decide if It might be a benefit to add the HD+.
post #149 of 2187
Thread Starter 
I think that question largely depends on what type of display you have steviec.
post #150 of 2187
Wow it must be close then. I am upgrading to a dlp projector soon . Theoretically if there is not much difference I'll save some money.
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