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ZP VMR9 Renderless mode, a work in progress - Page 3  

post #61 of 251
I had no trouble playing Coral Reef Adventure when I had my Geforce Ti4400. 720p though. I think it would actually play the 1080p version, but I remember it skipping once in a while - no real microstutters. I can't remember what driver I was using...probably 65.xx at the time. The PC was an Athlon XP 2400+, 1 gig of RAM, 308MHz FSB.
post #62 of 251
If you are going to a constant height screen AND 1080 60I or 1080 24PsF, you will need BOTH a high end card (fast GPU and 256 MB of memory) and renderless mode.

Renderless mode does work really well, unfortunately it works best with waveout or Reclock. DirectSound, which is required to play pack the WMVHD multitrack audio doesn't seem to be as smooth. Blight, for meaningful testing, you need to be running either 60 I or 24 PsF. You will never succeed with 120, because there is not going to be enough time to handle the buffer copies of Hi res (1080) images at that refresh rate.

post #63 of 251
Oh I forgot to mention - I think I tried VMR9 on my 4400 and didn't get microstutters with WMV-HD. My memory is quite hazy on that though - at least it worked well with VMR7.
post #64 of 251
If you have something you want us to try on high-end cards (9800GT in my case) at perfect multiples with reclock and the other problem configurations (constant height seems to be particularly stressful) just put it in beta 3 and we'll be more than happy to provide feedback :)
post #65 of 251
Thread Starter 
Ok, this code is far from perfect, it's only a test code, it's NOT beta 2.

Here's how you should test this...

Use non-DRM WMV-HD files, select the renderer as Renderless under Options / Filter Control / Customized Media Mode (standard media mode will not support renderless mode).

Now, if you open and play the file while in fullscreen mode, it will open in direct3d fullscreen mode. If you open while in window mode it will open in direct3d windowed mode. If you try switching while a video is loaded, you'll get a junk image.

DRM and DVD may work, no idea.

I intentionally compressed the EXE with RAR (www.rarlab.com). Furthermore, it's password protected, the password is "AVSForum". Do not distribute this EXE, it's verified not to be stable.

Click here to download.
post #66 of 251
Awesome to see that this is moving along...

I am having a problem getting the test version to work...it always flashes a few screens really fast then minimizes to left corner and displays in a msgbox "00000000 - The operation completed successfully" with the "ok" box waiting to be clicked, when clicked i get a violation at address 748C5A2D in quartz.dll and then requires the 3 finger salute to close.

other times if i select (in custom mode) the audio renderer as directsound:santa cruz it will complain about pin connections and revert to standard mode. i checked the filter config it does for audio in standard mode but when i set custom to the same thing it does the flashy, "ok", crash thing.

Never gets to running in renderless mode.


I am on a p4 3.2 ghz, FX5900 video card, XP SP2, 1 GB RAM


Edit: I am using the WMV-HD video clips downloaded from MS, i.e. Step in Liquid 1080, Rules of Attraction, T2, Magic of Flight
post #67 of 251
Blight, I assume as well that you want to hear which errors come up, right ? So, I tried to play back a PAL-DVD from a directory and when using Dscaler, ffdshow and reclock, and VMR9 renderless, I receive first a message that there is an unknown parameter, than ZP crashes and than the complete PC crashes with a blue screen message on ativvaxx.dll (I am using XP SP1, ATI X800 with 5.1 drivers on a Athlon 64 system).
post #68 of 251
Originally posted by pcgeek
How does your 4200 do for VMR9 with a high ffdshow resize on DVD's (1440x960 or higher)? I'd imagine for it to actually work well you'd need to be using a DX9 class card of some kind. I didn't start to have tearing problems on my 9600 until I started doing large images (zoomed in because of a 2.35:1 screen). That may just be too much raw video data for that card to be pushing through it's pipeline.
when you say zoomed in, do you mean that some of the video is "off screen"? adding "clipping to a window" to the mix can really increase CPU usage....

post #69 of 251
maybe we should pool-in and buy one of the 6600GT's that people in the "other thread" are abandoning like a sinking ship and give it to Blight to test with.... :D
post #70 of 251
I'm seeing the same behaviour as described by lordsiris
post #71 of 251
It's a serious no-go here. WMVHD results in screen corruption, and no image. DVD results in a small image in the upper left corner and continuous acess violations in quartz.dll. I only tried it on my NVidia 6800GT, because the ATI cards and drivers are relatively unstable and will BSOD at the least provocation (as multiblitz has already found out). Even the NVidia is forced into a hardware reset when trying to run WMV via this test code, but I have never seen the NVidia drivers take out the entire system with a BSOD like the ATI's frequently do.

Blight, if I might offer some input to you, based on previous experience as a beta tester for another renderless player.

1. Different vendor cards will require different ways of handling renderless mode. You will no longer be able to continue using a single previous generation card if you intend to develop a solid renderless mode player. You will require at least 2 systems with XP SP2 and the latest video cards and drivers from NVidia and ATI.

You need to either make the investments required by this brave new world, or elect not to offer renderless mode.

Just my $.02.

post #72 of 251
Thread Starter 
guys, make sure YUV mixing is NOT enabled (Advanced Options / Filter Control / Settings), it would definately screw things up.

Then try playing the file in windowless mode, see that it works first. Only then enable renderless mode and play in a window, don't go fullscreen. If that works then re-load ZP, go fullscreen and play again.

And this is just to test renderless mode, no DVD reports or other features please.
post #73 of 251
Thread Starter 
at least with NVIDIA card, the generation shouldn't matter, we're using software vertex processing (there aren't really any vertex calculation going on) and very few direct3d commands... The only issues may be texture sizes. I am using code that is supposed to be flexible.

This code even works on a Geforce 2 card... I don't see why it shouldn't work on newer more flexible cards.

Also of note, I'm using the official 66.93 drivers.
post #74 of 251

YUV mixing is disabled.

Windowless WMV doesn't work. Alternate screen corruption (colored blocks) and freezes.

Blight, you don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but I have been through this in recent weeks. Code that worked on ATI didn't work on NVidia, code that worked on a 6600 didn't work on a 6800.

Ultimately it was all figured out....not by me, however. I was just the messenger.

post #75 of 251
Thread Starter 
If windowless doesn't work then neither will renderless... It means an underlying problem unrelated to the renderer. You can try (re)installing WMP10 and that may fix that.

In the meanwhile, you can try other media file formats to see how they work.

As far as the card difference, I'm aware of that, there is code in place that is supposed to be flexible enough to account for different cards and I will be testing it on more cards, this is just an initial test because people wanted something to try out, it's not even a beta yet.
post #76 of 251
OK here are the results with DVD:

Windowless and renderless in a window work fine. As soon as I try to go full screen I have the continuous errors in quartz.dll.

In renderless mode in a window, as soon as i move the cusor over the window surface, the quartz.dll error pops up.

post #77 of 251
Thread Starter 
yes, you shouldn't go fullscreen! i wrote that in the initial message. to test fullscreen you need to load zp, go fullscreen and only then play the dvd...
post #78 of 251
I did end the player and restart for full screen. It looks like any time the mouse is over the image area, we have the quartz error popup.

post #79 of 251
Thread Starter 
oops, the quartz thing is my mistake, i commented support for something, i'll update the beta in a sec.
post #80 of 251
Turning off the YUV mixing did it for me. I set ZP to start in full screen mode and then picked multiple video and all played without a hitch, well besides the controls (start, stop, etc...) not responding. All looks good on my test system.

What were you using to watch for the micro stuttering? My HTPC is based on the 6600GT so I would like to try it there and see if the stuttering exists.



post #81 of 251
Thread Starter 
Ok, same link updated file. should no longer throw quartz errors in DVD playback.

Used the Speed 1080 sample from wmvhd ... At the begining, you have this panoramic glider sequence seen from the back of the pilot. The mountains seem to stutter as he changes the plane's angle.

It stutters for me with any renderer, overlay, vmr7 and vmr9, so I'm not really sure if this is something that can be fixed.
post #82 of 251
OK, playing a DVD in a window and making sure to keep the mouse off the window surface, I see stutters in the image that are not present on the other renderless players installed on this system.

post #83 of 251
Thread Starter 
I'm assuming these players use fullscreen mode, try the new build in fullscreen, it shouldn't throw those errors anymore, I just forgot to uncomment support for the DVD Navigation code required (undocumented ofcourse) by the renderer.
post #84 of 251
Originally posted by Blight

Used the Speed 1080 sample from wmvhd ... At the begining, you have this panoramic glider sequence seen from the back of the pilot. The mountains seem to stutter as he changes the plane's angle.
Blight, of course it's on the one that I haven't downloaded yet ;), I will d/l and take a look...

post #85 of 251
OK, errors with quartz.dll fixed.

Actually the player works in zoom mode as well. The sizing controls work (Alt- arrows) work, but the image positioning doesn't yet.

I suggest that you use Cat Woman chapter 2 as your acid test for smooth pans and frame drops.

Since I have an anamorphic lens the image positioning is important.

BTW, Media player 10 plays WMV with no issues on my system.

post #86 of 251
More on the WMVHD:

It's the 1080 version of the files that won't play. I am using the files from the DVD, not the downloaded ones. The 720 versions play, but with occasional stutters. This combined with the pan issues in Cat Woman leads me to believe that all is not quite right yet in the ZP renderless world.

post #87 of 251
Blight I do see the "micro" stutters that I believe that you are seeing, if you are talking about the very beginning of the file at less that 2-3 seconds in?? If so I dont think that is really a ZP problem as much as the video.

not sure if you want DVD playback problems described or not so here goes anyway...on dvd playback with newest NVidia DVD decoders, NVPP and ffdshow via renderless i get playback but in fullscreen it only shows at about a 1/4 of the actual size and in the upper left corner, all the video seems to be there just smaller than it should be.

All the 1080 files played perfectly (except for noted above) and were very smooth.

Everything else seems to work inluding the controls via my remote and girder...

post #88 of 251
I have just come to the conclusion that WMV is not playing back in renderless mode for me. I can right click when playing the WMV files from one of the many DVD's and see the context menu. I shouldn't be able to do this. DVD are the only media that use renderless on my system....

Also, when trying to play WMV I see an adapter reset occurring as evidenced by the projector flashing the input type on the screen briefly.

Lordirus: Hit the + key after you start playback and it will expand to the full screen.

post #89 of 251
what are the adavntages of dvd playback in renderless mode...more cycles for ffdshow enhancements? could there be pq differences?
post #90 of 251
Thread Starter 
WMP10 uses VMR7... not a real indicator.

Also, if you're playing DRMed WMV, you need to set the renderer under Options / Settings / Windows Media...

As far as dropped frames... I'm on a much weaker machine (p4 2.53) on a weaker AGP card (GF4 TI4200) and I'm not getting dropped frames. Don't really see a reason why you would. There are a few parameters that are tweakable, but I think I'm setting them to the best quality right now.

I have nothing to compare playback against as the NVIDIA player is buggy for me and mediator is even worse, only playing DVDs.

Also, make sure you're not using reclock, it may cause issues with renderless mode. And you should be aware that ZP isn't controlling the panning or anything else, the renderless structure doesn't quite work like that. ZP just tells it how many VSync to wait before displaying the image, the resolution of the textures (same resolution as video), the resolution of the back buffer (same resolution as active monitor). Not too much is at play here.
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