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*OFFICIAL* Benq PE7700 Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 5110
The only factual difference between the 8700 and 7700 that the BenQ folks would admit to (to me anyway)... other than the senseye that Kevin discussed is that instead of buying the internal scaler from an outside source they are now building their own chip-set for scaling/de-interlacing.

I spent quite a bit of time with the 7700 on several different occasions during the show... I definitely agree that the transfer of Hero they were showing was a "woeful" choice... it certainly did not show off the capabilities of the projector.

Kevin is an experienced calibrator... (Now ISF... way to go Kevin) and so his advice should be taken seriously... you can never really accurately compare two projectors unless you can get them in the same environment with both of them properly calibrated.

However, the likelihood of that ever happening is somewhere between slim and none! Numerous folks have put on "shootouts" and have all discovered the incredible difficulty in just getting all of the projectors in the same place at the same time... then trying to find someone experienced to get them properly set up for comparison... now were really talking tough!.. and a huge investment in time and energy. You may never have that opportunity... I traveled across several states and two countries trying to accomplish this and was not sucessful. I was however, able to view several different projectors in the home theaters of the individual owners, which gave me a much better understanding of what the various levels of the projector world provided... none of them were comparable (a 9"CRT up for 1080p, a projector external scaler setup ..Dwin TV3, and then new Optoma H30), but they all allowed me to put a face on the things I was reading here on AVS. Then when I attended the shootouts I was able to actually "see" some things that made a difference to me... none of the projectors was actually set up "properly" but everyone did the best they could with what the time and resources they had available.

Trying to get the "best" projector is probably like trying to have perfectly pure water, or the "best" computer... any time you can actually buy/build a computer and take it home... it will only be the top dog for about a month till the next fastest one takes it's place!

My pathetic advice is to see as many as you can and then buy the best technology you can afford that will work in the space you have available. Personally I could have lived with any of the projectors I viewed.. but for my little theater 8 months ago I picked what I felt was the best-bang-for-the-buck ... that day.

May the Force be with YOU!

Steve
post #32 of 5110
I, too, eagerly await reviews of the 7700. I was, for price reasons, about to jump on the Panny 700 bandwagon. However, I really love my Samsung DLP TV, and don't see rainbows unless I try, so I'd prefer to go with a DLP-based unit. Sure, the 700U is a GREAT value, but there are too many concerns about VB issues (though I know this varies person to person, unit to unit) and it just isn't DLP performance (though we'll see!).

I say bring on sub-$3K street prices for 720P DLP units!
post #33 of 5110
Deleted by me.
post #34 of 5110
Talking about street pricing will get this thread deleted. Please refer to the warning thread.
post #35 of 5110
wow a Sharp XV-2k fighter. Where is NEC in all of this? Whip out the HT2000 big boy!!!!
post #36 of 5110
The best info out there at the CES show, positions the 7700 as a slightly less expensive projector than the 8700+. The talk was of a street price between $3300 and $3500 (at least to start). Remember the low end of pricing on the 8700+ is about $3995, and six months ago it was definitely around $4500. So the expected street on the 7700 fits in line with normal price erosion.

The 8720 however is a step up projector. It has a wider range on its lens, claims a contrast ratio of something like 5000:1 (I don't remember - but it was up there, certainly over 4000:1).

I believe the 8720 goes to an 8? segment wheel, and it has optical lens shift - (at least vertical). However, the bad news - the 8720 is expected to be a major step up in price, I heard $6000 street mentioned although I hope that is high. The word there was that it definitely was a much more expensive projector than the 8700+.

I didn't really spend time with the 7700 at the show, but the 8720 looked very good. There did seem to be some artifact problems but as this was an early prototype, you have to expect that.

Probably the most significant thing to keep in mind, is the delivery date mentioned is March. BenQ has repeatedly been months late on most of their business projectors and HT models. This could easily be a product that we won't see until May or later. Hey the 8710 was supposed to be out last spring, and it never materialized at all (with its 7 segment wheel), instead a bit later the 8700 got the HD2+ chip, and the 8700+ designation (even though the boxes still say 8700.
post #37 of 5110
Here is the screen shot that I took from CES...
LL
post #38 of 5110
Sorry I don't know how to take a picture...
But at lease here is some idea....

If you see it in action, it looks waaayyy better than the screenshot ...

Baja
LL
post #39 of 5110
I thought the list price for the Benq was $3299, for the Toshiba MT-700 $34pp, and the Sharp XV-Z2000 $3999. I thought all of these were published already.
post #40 of 5110
I'm curious about the Toshiba having 2000:1 CR while the Benq is 2500:1. That's quite a difference for two projectors that may be the same internally.
post #41 of 5110
The Sony had a marketed CR of 6000:1, but that is with a white point of >9000K (gains maximized). I wonder if the marketing departments for Benq & Toshiba are basing their figures on different set of white points. It could also be due to optics, I suppose.
post #42 of 5110
i was just looking on projectorpeople using the side by side comparison chart and it said the 8700 was discontinued??????

__________________

Couldn't find where it said that it was discontinued, but suspect they were referring to the "old" 8700 - with the HD2 chip, and not the HD2+ chip based 8700+. BenQ says 8700+ projectors are it, for now, with product still coming in from Taiwan through April.

If the 7700 is supposed to be at least as good as the 8700+ (speculation), and at a lower price, then BenQ will likely holld off shipping it until they run out of the 8700+. That was what they did with the 8700/8700+ transition. I recall that they were shipping the old 8700's then one day - sorry - all gone, order the 8700+.
post #43 of 5110
Well, the PE7700 & PE8720 are coming. Why would they continue the PE8700+?
post #44 of 5110
I got the distinct impression at CES that they were trying to decide if they would continue to market the PE8700+. My guess is that they want something to fall price-wise between the 7700 and the 8720. Maybe they will do something to juice up the 8700+ (Senseye, better optics, etc.) to distinguish it from the 7700.
post #45 of 5110
That would be amazing. Three projectors with the same DMD? Or, is the DMD in the 8720 different?
post #46 of 5110
Ferret..........

My understanding is that the DMD in the 8720 has the same number of MicroMirrors.. but is a completely different chip.

Steve
post #47 of 5110
The 8700+ is definitely going away, according to BenQ. The strategy seems to be that the 7700 while different, is the logical replacement - it will be less expensive, have some fancy new stuff (sens-eye, etc.), but possibly won't be as good in other areas (no doubt depending on the electronics they use - SG, Pixelworks, their own, Faroudja, etc.). The 8720 will be higher end. Lens shift, best of everything (I think they said Faroudja in the 8720, but I can't recall).

The 8720 is definitely scheduled to be more expensive. From everything I have heard the best street prices should be under $6K, and who knows, maybe as low as $5K (but probably not to start.

Also remember - intial quantites are likely to be very limited for the first 60 days or so (on both models). That is typical for the industry (Panasonic AE700, AE500, Sanyo Z3, Z2, etc. when they first shipped, with most customers having to wait around a month to get delivery from order time.

In summary, the 7700 may in some ways be not quite as good as the 8700, but it will almost "split the difference in price" between the 8700+'s current price and that of the Sanyo Z3/Panny 700u.

Which should really make Sony nervous - their 51 sells close to $3K and likely will take a beating.
post #48 of 5110
Remember we are only supposed to use MSRP in our specific price discussions...

I would like this discussion to continue and don't want the folks in charge to close the thread.

Of course street prices will always be lower than MSRP... and when I was at CES they did not even have an MSRP for the 8720 yet. They were trying to float an MSRP in the $10k range, but they admitted that it would probably be lower as they have not set final pricing...

I think this is marketing jockeying for position... they did not want to set their price's before everyone else did.

Now that InFocus has announced an MSRP of $6,999 for their dark3 powered 7210 I imagine we will be hearing from BenQ with a "real" MSRP for the 8720..... and I would be amazed if it was not lower than InFocus.. maintaining the tradition of being the best "bang-for-the-buck" projectors!

They did release the MSRP of $3,299 for the 7700 at CES however. If you consider the past trends of street pricing then this should be a very competitive product indeed!

BenQ's history of offering a great deal for the money is why there is currently an 8700+ hanging in my theater... I am excited about the future.
post #49 of 5110
Greetings,

You are right I forgot about the ban on pricing. Although typical street prices are far more useful, I understand the reasons for not quoting prices. When I write the reviews for my website, I always deal in "typical street prices" because MSRP varies so much that it becomes irrelevant. Case in point, the BenQ 8700+ has a MSRP of $8000, but as we all know sells for a fraction of that at most online resellers. It's not rare for a projector to sell for 1/2 to 2/3 of MSRP, it just depends on the Brand and their strategy.

BenQ, when they launched their little 5120 HT projector in December, set an MSRP that was relatively close to the street price, by comparison.

My guess is that going forward their MSRP will be close to their MAP price (minimum advertised price), unlike before, and in turn, closer to street. If I dare, the BenQ MAP on the 8700+ (BenQ publishes both MSRP and MAP), is $2000 below the $7999 MSRP on the 8700+, and that is huge, considering that MAP is well above, and doesnt reflect street price!

So, my intel leads me to believe that the street price on the 7700 will not be significantly below list price.

I live about 15 miles from BenQ's HQ in Irvine CA., and I expect to get a close look at both products before they ship, hopefully long enough to do full reviews on them. When I have had a chance, the info will be posted on my site; http://www.ProjectorReviews.com. (It's pretty new, and still getting organized, the database being completed, so forgive the flaws.)

I've really just started following threads on AVS, and am not sure if I am even supposed to mention my site, but it is strictly a projectorcentral.com site, and it doesn't sell product., and people are always referring to Evan and projector central.

However it turns out, the 7700 looks to be a great value (unless they screw something up), and the 8720, who knows - perhaps it will be good enough to drive the higher end folks, like Runco/Vidikron (who's lower end machines are based on the 8700+), Marantz, and Yamaha, completely crazy. That may not help the under $4k shoppers, but wouldn't it be nice to have a "next step up" for not much more?
post #50 of 5110
Art.... I agree it would really be nice to be able to use street pricing in the discussions..., but oh well... there are rules and if we are going to make use their playground.. I suppose we should follow their rules!

I love the fact that their are companies like BenQ that are willing to shake things up a bit... in 2003 Optoma just about gave the mainstream boys "heart-attacks" when they announced the pricing on their H76... pity they were not able to actually deliver the product in time... but they sure did have the big boys attention for a few months!

Now BenQ seems to have taken over the role of keeping the other guys honest.. ( as I work for Southwest Airlines I guess I sort of identify with this role!) .. not that BenQ's projectors are perfect or without flaws, but they certainly seem to be willing to provide a lot for our dollars... and heck until I find a zillionaire uncle isn't that what it's all about?

My concern with the 7700 from what I saw at CES is the scaler/de-interlacer they are now using (in house chips). To my untrained and uncalibrated eyes it did not appear to do as good a job as the one in my 8700+. Whereas the Toshiba MT-700 whose case appears to be identical to the 7700 (sans BenQ logo) is using a Faroudja chipset and in the CES demo looked quite a bit better than the 7700.

On the 8720 front... as I mentioned I would not be surprised at all to see BenQ undercut the pricing announcement from InFocus.... isn't this a great time to be interested in HT... it just keeps getting better and better!!!
post #51 of 5110
HiHoStevo,

Front projector newbie/wannabee here... If I feed this projector a 720P digital signal from a good-to-excellent DVD player (or an HTPC for that matter which is what do to my CRT rptv), isn't the internal scaler of the projector bypassed? I prefer that BenQ chose a less expensive scaler and is reflecting the cost savings in the price.
post #52 of 5110
That is my understanding............. yes.

I do not know what other things they have changed...

but as I have said each time I was asked... IMHO the PQ on the 7700 is not as good as the 8700+.

However, this could have been the source material they were feeding it at CES... you cannot tell for sure until you have the production unit in a "real" theater enviornment and properly calibrated... that is when the truth will be known.
post #53 of 5110
Probably the biggest unfortunate is that of its dealership/distribution for me. I know of no one that sells the Benq locally, which means demonstrating the equipment to me is impossible unless you are an end user that happens to have one. And even when there are dealers locally, there is a growing trend to sell demo units or take them home, so potential buyers looking for auditions are out in the cold.
post #54 of 5110
I feel your pain..............

I went from Vegas to the Canuck Shootout II up in Canada to be able to play with one first hand before I bought it!
post #55 of 5110
So, its early March for the PE7700. Anyone remember what Toshiba said would be the date for their MT-700?
post #56 of 5110
Anyone have an update on 7700 availability? March is right around the corner!
post #57 of 5110
I was just approved as a BenQ dealer. I'll make a call a see what I can find out. In my area, $2,000 to $3,000 seems to be the most common acceptable price point for a home theater display device, so this will make a lot of people happy.
post #58 of 5110
Quote:


Originally posted by Kevin R. Anderson
I'll make a call a see what I can find out. In my area, $2,000 to $3,000 seems to be the most common acceptable price point for a home theater display device, so this will make a lot of people happy.

This is based on what research you or someone else conducted?
post #59 of 5110
This is just based on conversations with people who have asked me about getting a home theater for their family room or basement. Most have seen my set up, which is a calibrated BenQ 8700, but when I tell them the price, they say they only want to spend half of that.

It is probably not a surprise that for many, the most important feature is that the picture is big and bright, and if you can accomplish that with a business LCD projector for $1,000, why spend more.

I spend a lot of time trying to educate and explain why, in the long term, they are being penny wise and pound foolish.
post #60 of 5110
Well, hopefully Salt Lake isn't a gravitational point for the pound-foolish.
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