*OFFICIAL* Benq PE7700 Thread - Page 18

Oh, one more thing. The BenQ 7700 has by far the most beautiful case of any projector I have seen. Very wife friendly.
Warren.

The Wife-Factor (WF) is very important... I to noticed how nice this PJ looks!

This may have been covered before, but this is my take on what is happening here.

If your source (DVD player) has the set-up pedestal of 7.5 ire which I would think all North American DVD players and analogue tv would have, then you are sending a 7.5ire signal to the projector. This is in fact an analogue voltage of approx 53millivolts, and is what the source will send out when it gets a 'black' signal (digital 16 from the DVD). The projector is set to 7.5 ire will then display black on your screen. Anthing above that will be grey to white.

If you set the projector to 0ire, it will expect 0ire from the source, which should be 0millivolts and the equivalent to black. anything which is above 0ire will be displayed as grey.

So what you're doing there is sending out a dark grey (53mv) instead of black (should be 0mv) as far as the pj is concerned, and that's why you're seeing more stars - you've raised the brightness level. I think the projectors 0ire and 7.5ire setting is there to be matched to the sources black output. Here in the UK we would set it to 0ire for PAL sources, and if the DVD player has a 0ire option for NTSC, then we would set it to that so our multi-region players will output the same millivoltage for black (PAL and NTSC) and only one calibration will be needed.

Except for THX Optimode DVDs, you should use Avia to set the white and black levels to ensure you're seeing things as intended.

Gary.

I finally got the 7700 working. Thanks to the previous poster for the timings. I am using an htpc with 9800pro over dvi/hmdi. I checked 1 to 1 with Phillips and it was dead on with the posted timings. Before I received the dvi cable I was sending the projector 480p with a standard dvd player. I have to say that the pq difference is night and day. I was beginning to think that I made the wrong purchase viewing 480p for a week. However, the 720p picture is amazing. My previous projector was a pb6200. The biggest improvement over the pb6200 is the colors. They are significantly deeper and richer. Makes for a more pleasurable viewing experience. I also love the fact that I no longer have the grey bars top and bottom with the 4:3 chip. I read some previous posts that the optics are not sealed. Has this been confirmed. The optics on the 6200 are sealed. Seems crazy to take a step backwards. Anyway thanks for the help on getting my setup working.

Brent

Thanks Gary Lightfoot, I think, you are about 5 levels above my head(knowledge) wise. I reset the IRE to 7.5 and just did a few clicks of brightness and got back to the same picture quality I liked, down hear in the south we have a saying, two ways to skin a cat.

I do apologize for butchering the English language so, but it's a southern thing, the longer I live down hear the worse it gets.

I really like your home theater, you had more than a few structural challenges to over come in your loft, but you did a Vary nice job in constructing a beautiful Home Theater.

Thanks again

I have an HD DSS box (RCA DTC-210), but it only scales the HD output not the SD output...................... I think.

Hi Brent,
the optics ARE sealed so don't worry. This has been confirmed by MikeSRC in the MT700 thread (the Toshiba is also made by BenQ and except probably (not confirmed) one PCB (printed circuit board) the two are identical). BTW most if not all DLP engines are sealed since a single dust particle can make a mirror get stuck, so if you don't seal it within a year your screen would be looking like a walked-over minefield.

Hi,

How is the scaling of 480/576 standard definition (ie DVD) on this pj ?

The Benq 8700's scaling isn't exactly great. I hope the new one has improved on this.




Regards

Hi Checklist,

Only too pleased to have helped. Thanks for the kind words regarding my loft theater too. It's still a compromise but it serves a purpose and like you, I enjoy this hobby as well as watching movies.

I can't see anything wrong with your English - sounds good to me. You should hear the Cockney slang we have over here in my neck of the woods - believe me, Southern talk is probably easier to understand.

Gary.

Hey guys would like to share some (old knowledge) after reading the BQ 7700 manual. The benq 7700 states it in ploys a Fix Optical CAT lens (Catadioptric) and has added an aperture in the lens optics.

I have used Fixed Aperture CAT's back in the BW days, (before wife) we used these fixed CAT's to boost contrast(in bright light) mostly in black and white film, on nude silhouette photography.

Never occurred to me that the higher contrast of these lens offered might work in a "projection system" in providing a higher contrast levels, just one of those things that make you go Hummmmmmmm!!!!!

I'll bet somwhere in the Benq design team was an old photographer that had his thinking cap on.

Just a thought.

The quoted CR of the 7700 is 2500:1, and normaly manufacturers figures aren't quoted for anything like calibrated or out of the box settings, so it'll be interesting to see what kind of CR this pj actually resolves.

Gary.

I wonder if Benq is using the CAT term loosely? I looked up the other lens design based off the previous post, and it does not look close to any of those designs.

I took some shots of the MT700 and it would seem that there is a fixed iris in there I was not aware of, this results in a Cat's eye appearance...

have a look:






It seems they took some time to setup a factory preset iris setting to get the most out of the PJ, I do wish they allowed for a user setting, just for the tweaker in me...



TJ

My MT700 lens looks exactly the same so this iris thing or whatever it is, is NOT the senseye addition unless the MT700 has also the senseye thing which is not present in the menu's.

I think they're talking about lens and not senseye. Senseye is an internal processing routine and bits of circuits if I'm not mistaken - not a lens or iris.

Yes I was commenting on the Benq spec sheet stating it has a Fixed Cat lens, and upon investigation I found the Mt700 has some sort of iris, nothing to do with the Senseye deal...

I would like to know if the PE7700 has this same arrangement if someone can check>?


TJ

Hey TJ Looks the same to me. I do feel that the term CAT might be being used in a loose manner but I don't know for sure. A CAT lens uses mirrors to collect light and direct it into the optical lens path, a DPL by nature use mirrors to direct the image into the lens optical path, and since the lens are a sealed package I guess one could use the term Cat.

Sorry guys don't mean to get to off track hear because no matter what BQ and TM use it sure WORKS GREAT.

Just a thought

I finally got the chance to compare head-to-head the 7700 to the 8700 and run it through some tests using AviaPro and the Accupel signal generator. I don't have time for a full report right now, but let me just say that I would swap my 8700 in a heart beat for this baby.

Kevin, if you get a chance, take a look at the differences between the 7.5 and 0 IRE settings with a 480p feed over component. With the MT700, the "USA" setting equates to 15 IRE black and "Japan" to 7.5 IRE. After reading the Projector Central review, it appears that the 7700's doing the same thing with the 7.5 and 0 IRE settings.

Also, I'd be interested in seeing what kind of lumen levels and CR you're getting with OpticOne to compre with my readings on the MT700.

Mike The 7700 in my oppinion is doing the same thing, I have had mine switched into Japan IRE 0 from day one because IT JUST LOOKS BETTER, and the detail just pops out in the in the shadows areas, and it still has nice blacks.

Just a quick comment on TzungILin's list above. While there are some good points in comparing the feature set of the H77 with the BenQ 8720, keep in mind that the 8720 is actually direct competition to the Darkchip 3 H79, not the H77. As a result you should find the 8720 when it ships to have very noticeably superior black level performance (less noticeable pixels, etc.
I just started reviewing Marantz's 12S4 last night, and was switching back and forth between it and my BenQ 8700+. The difference on dark levels is immediate and dramatic. As an added benefit, Darkchip 3 projectors seem to have less noticeable pixels, and since few of us sit so far back to make the pixel issue completely non-existant. But I digress. My thoughts line up with some others on this thread, a 7700 (and an iScan if you have the need), is likely a better value than the H77. The H79, which I will be reviewing week after next, on the other hand, is a step up product. Once the 8720 hits, we may see some serious price erosion as those two battle it out for the low end of the Darkchip 3 market, but until then, for most, I would recommend the 7700 for its price performance, or scrape up the big bucks for the H79, BenQ 8720, perhaps a Sim2 projector with Darkchip 3, etc.
The H77 is an excellent choice for the extra bucks (over the PE7700), if you have need for the lens shift, but if not, I do doubt its worth the extra $800 - $1200. Of course each of us has certain pet tech issues we want to solve.
BTW this isn't going to get any easier. It will mostly remain impossible to get demos of projectors like Optoma's H57, H77, or BenQ's 7700, since "local" (high priced) dealers, simply won't sell/demo the models that are so heavily discounted on the internet. -art

The good news is that for all but the real perfectionists among us, machines like the 7700 will simply exceed the expectations of most shoppers. At least that is the feedback that I'm hearing on my site.

-art

Art.............

For people like me who need a "good" de-interlacer for SDTV watching, which BenQ apparently decided to leave out.... wouldn't it be better to consider the Toshiba MT-700 with the Faroudja chip over the 7700/iScan combo?

Yes, PE8720 is a direct head-to-head competitor to H79.

That is why I wrote in my post that PE8720 is almost the same as H77 except for Darkchip3 and power lens shift. What I meant was that PE8720 also has 8-segment color wheel, 10-bit green processing, lens shift, power zoom/focus, Corsina lens high end features like the H77 does, which PE8700 is lacking.

Hence, H77 is a lot closer in features to PE8720 than PE8700+. Of course, Darkchip3 creates a difference in image quality.

I still see a difference in image quality between H77 and PE7700, PE7700 is bright and color is very accurate, but in terms of contrast ratio, black level, picture depth and color saturation, H77 throws an overall better image. Of course, everyone has different taste and opinion. For people who likes a bright image, PE7700 and SP7205 are two good choices, with PE7700 being more value.

Somehow I doubt that will ever see the 8720.

It's now only 4 month before CEDIA, and everyone who was going to come out with DC3 chip has done so many months ago.

BenQ did exactly the same thing last year with 8710 - only to never show up.

What is the point of announcing a product and never shipping it - I have no idea.

I agree that, from what I have read, the MT-700 is preferable, even though I am getting price quotes about the same for both projectors.

... well Benq has 3 yr warranty while Tosh has one year... does this have any concern with you ? ( especially when they cost the same.. )

the real diff tosh has over Benq is 1) DCDi 2) user adjustable gamma. For 1) if you use a good prog scan dvd player (say Denon 3910, Pio dv59avi) u won't use it even with the Tosh; 2) is more useful.

Abt Benq, It's still a mystery what SensEye does. And whether the noise level is really low. 26 vs 29 is quite substantial.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread: All over the world - except US - the Tosh and the BenQ are marketed with the same specs! That is:
26 dB Eco / 29 dB Normal
2500:1 Contrast
Even gamma curve correction is also in the US specs (though it remains to be confirmed as a feature)

This leads me to believe that there some kind of agreement between Toshiba and BenQ that requires Toshiba to release higher figures for the biggest market (us).

I ordered my BenQ today and it should be here within the week (here the BenQ is $800 less than the Tosh).

Senseye is explained here:
Senseye

-Claus

No, the Toshiba has a 2 year warranty (difference of one year). That's good enough for me, for the difference in price and getting the Faroudja. (If it breaks, I think it will in the first 2 years)


Well, I don't have a ~$1000 DVD player, not will I ever get one, certainly not to make up for the lack of deinterlacing in the projector that I spent a few hundred more $$$ on than its brother...


I agree that we need to know more about SensEye, but I would imagine others would've been able to tell some kind of obvious difference by now if it was truly something special.

Just my $0.02..

There are very good 200 buck dvd players with excellent progressive scan. Spending thousands on a projector and using a 35 dollar dvd player might not be the best plan.
Warren.

My question is, if the deinterlacer is tripped up by 3:2, is it performing as best it could on say a 1080 interlaced signal?

Are the shortcomings limited to film based interlaced signals or all interlaced conversions done by the projector's electronics...?

The Senseye has not yet been proven as an advantage yet, in fact it's implementation has peripherally reduced the quality of the included deinterlacer.

I am in the camp that if you have a 720p native projector, you should be feeding it a nice progressive source to work with , but that is not always the case, and which leads me to my first question in this post?

TJ

1080i will be input to the PJ at 60Hz with the conversion at the source.