Official Pioneer VSX-1015TX Thread - Page 65

no, not possible. the crossover is electronic device, either it workes or it doesn't. make sure speakers are set to small and sub is NOT set to plus.

sorry ruztew, didn't see your post.

My sub is good performer (200 Watts RMS, 750 Watts Peaks). My only concern about putting crossover to 100hz will be about 'THX recommandation' that crossover must be set at 80hz.
Also I have strong performer in my front line (2 monster floorstanding speaker, 12 inchs woofer, can goes down to 30hz). I also red some problems with crossover setting at 100hz where Sub became harder to integrate correctly with whole system?

Another question: What about rear surround? (7.1 setup) I have 2 older speakers in my back wall (6th and 7th channel) and I think they don't goes below 100hz!!! Do you know if 1015 send lots of LFE stuff to rear surround?

Thanks

It's not a brick wall.

Some below crossover lows do go to the main and rear speakers, but not enough to cause any concern, as they roll off rapidly. The lower frequency limits in speaker specs is just where they quit having usable response. They aren't likely to be harmed by lower frequency signals, they just won't reproduce them.

It is often recommended to set the crossover a half octave or so above the speakers' rated low limit because manufacturers are notoriously "optimistic" about how low their speakers will go. This is more a matter of smooth response than safety, though.

In any case, LFE is routed only to the subwoofer if it is activated . Only non-LFE bass below the crossover point is affected when "small" is selected. While there is often a lot of low frequency information in the main front channels (especially on material produced without a LFE channel), it is very unusual for any deep lows to be routed to surround speakers (although it is done occasionally).

Your message crossed my previous response.

You could set your front speakers to "large" to take advantage of their capacity, but you are more likely to run across the integration issues you mention. It works or some people, but if you are not inclined to experiment (preferably with a SPL meter and test record), you are probably better off leaving them at "small" (although the MCACC will probably insist on setting them to "large").

A 100Hz crossover usually works fine, but can cause a problem in some rooms if the subwoofer isn't located between the main front speakers. The lower the crossover, the easier it is to integrate the sub.

As I mentioned before, LFE does not go to any of the other channels, and not much low freqeuncy information is routed to the rears. (This is a function of the program source, not the receiver.)

For what it's worth, I use a 7.1 THX Select2-type configuration with rears that probably don't go any deeper than yours and I've found the 80Hz THX recommended crossover point works just fine for me.

Thanks for the reply!, it really help me!

Presuming you have speakers capable of ADEQUATELY reproducing frequencies below 80 Hz,
you have the opportunity to improve bass reproduction in three different ways:
1) avoids amplitude matching and phase distortion problems in the vicinity of the 80-Hz cross-over by disabling the bass management feature (which is intended ONLY to "help" disadvantaged "small" speakers),
2) multiple speakers can output a given power level at a lower distortion and
3) multiple speakers can smooth out the low frequency room response, exciting several different room modes from each of the different speaker (and sub-woofer) locations....vice the small number of readily evident room modes excited by just a sub-woofer.

Note that a full range speaker is also a sub-woofer when fed low freq info---which typically is the same as is being fed to the LFE channel. The fol. study investigates using multiple sub-woofers to cover a fairly wide "listener area" such as is found in a theater:
http://www.audiovideointeriors.com/i...fer%20study%22

The Pioneer doesn't ever SEND signals from the LFE channel to any other channel....it's the other way around: when you select SMALL for a particular speaker, the low frequencies for that channel (e.g. LS & RS) are redirected TO the sub-woofer.

Whatever low frequencies signals sent to a particular channel originate in the source material....which presumably contains only sound reflections in the surround channels. However, don't believe anyone who tells you that the surround channels don't contain low freq info....that's a myth held over from the early matrix surround systems.

If you place a microphone at a distance from the stage, you are going to pick up very strong low frequency signals---especially since they are not attenuated very much in a closed auditorium....
In order to grab your attention in the theater, movie soundtracks are also frequently issued with strong low frequency signals in the surround channels.....

So feel free to override the AUTO MCACC speaker determinations and set marginal speakers to SMALL vs LARGE--after all, MCACC isn't testing them to see if they will accurately reproduce an explosive crescendo.

===============================
AHHH, multiple speaker integration. The choice of cross-over frequency is just one more variable, along with the number of sub-woofers, number of LARGE enabled speakers and above all--location, location, location.

For example, if you have a big room response hump at say 100 Hz, an 80-Hz LFE cross-over could result in less contribution from the SMALL speakers than when set for 100-Hz....which may or may not be a good thing....
However, I doubt that you will be able to hear much of a difference as you switch it back and forth...

The REAL purpose of a variable bass redirection crossover (which after all only affects SMALL speakers), is to be able to increase it for really small speakers (in order to reduce distortion) and lower it back to 80 Hz for moderate sized speakers.

Commonly used rule of thumb: if the speaker is 6-inch (I would say 8-inch) or above, set it to LARGE, else set to SMALL.

My proposed rule of thumb: determine the driver size for the SMALLEST speaker that is set to SMALL:
a) If it is 6-inch or larger, use 80 Hz crossover [Maybe dual 6-inch and 8-inch or larger???],
b) If it is one of those really tiny speakers, use 150 Hz, or maybe even 200 Hz....
c) For speaker sizes in between, use 100 Hz.....

My front and center frequency response goes down to 60Hz (so the manufaturer says), so I have them set to small and the crossover set to 80Hz. I then have my sub's crossover set to the highest setting (120Hz) since its only going to be "sent" 80Hz and below signals. Is that correct?

While I certainly agree with most of your comments on this subject, this is the exact reason I recommend that novices start by keeping it simple. Using multiple non co-located subs (as I do) is a bit of an art form. (Some would say black art.) They can easily make matters worse instead of better.

In my opinion, setting all the speakers to "small" is the best "plug and play" solution for those without the patience, equipment and knowledge to integrate multiple low frequency sources (and often turns out to be the best solution in any case).


They don't contain any LFE, which was the original question. As for encoded, channel specific lows, I think it's a matter of semantics. You say they "frequently" contain strong low frequency info, I'd say "sometimes" (in the case of DVD's, at least).

In any case, setting the surround speakers to "small" insures that all of the lows are reproduced. Since they are largely nondirectional, most listeners will not notice they are coming from the sub in a typical home viewing room. The directional cues are at a higher frequency, and fool the ear into believing that the deeper lows are coming from the direction the sound engineer intended. (Theaters are a much larger space and present a different challenge.)

Even if the integration issues are solved, a drawback to setting speakers to "large" is that, unless they can reproduce lows as deep as the sub, program material without an LFE channel may sound bass deficient. This is especially true for those who run their subs a bit "hot" (which is probably most of us ).

I don't mean to quibble and I'm not suggesting that there is a single right or wrong way to do this. It's all a matter of taste. I'm just advocating starting with a simple approach that works well for most people, then trying more complex solutions as one's knowledge grows.

That's the usual recommendation.

Thanks!

Thanks All of you guys!!!, You always have great answer to all our question!!!

Thanks again!!!

Using RoomEQ wizard I've plotted nearfield responses of all the x-over settings of a 1014 (50,80,100,150,200Hz) which presume would be similar to the 1015. The responses have been overlaid to one graph and should give you an idea of the roll-off which appears to be 3rd order (18dB/octave).

Approx one octave down from the x-over point thing go a little awry but that wouldn't cause your speakers any difficulties.

Last 2 days I've do some testing at 80hz and 100hz crossover. I cannot notice any enhancement with my surround at 100hz. Perharps surround speaker cannot produce some lower bass frequency but for my hears it was not hearable. Big difference at 100hz was with my bass who's clearly coming from corner of the room (where my sub is installed). After the tests I decided to run crossover at 80hz and main speaker at small. When set at large bass seem not as accurate, it was amazing with big explosion and car crashs but sometime too boomy. all speaker at small settings and crossover at 80hz give better results in my setup!!!

Perharps running surround speaker at their limits will damage them in the future? I don't know but I will took the chance!

Very, very, very unlikely. For years, people have used stereo speakers that do not reproduce the full range that may be on their CD's or LP's without harm to their speakers.

Corner locations usually result in boomy sound....you should try differerent locations....just a few feet away from the corner can change how it excites the room modes.

Overdriving speakers so that they emit audible distortion is evidence that you are damaging them from overheating the voice coil, overstretching the voice coil surround and/or bouncing the coil form against the stops....

I have this receiver for 3/4 year now. And i am very happy with it.
Good bass and good sound.
It was time to do the new settings with MACC because my girlfriend played with it. Girls and machines?? LOL sorry for ladies who is reading this

Now the problem:

In my opnion the subwoofer was working with these settings
front: large
center : small
surround: large
surround back large

But now it only works when i set the sub on plus or set surround at small.

ALso when i set on stereo with macc the sub is not working. therefor it was alos working. ( i think)

So people please help me to check.....or is my receiver broken?

Thanks!!!

I am not sure if it is me or my rears, but I tend to want to hear more of my rears in action. Would setting them to small, increase what I hear from them (since I am sending more towards my sub)?

Do you have towers in the rear? If not, why would they be set to large in the first place? If the auto setup put them as large, you change them to small.

No, just bump up the db on the rears and that will do it. I also like louder surround effects from the rears. Like the other poster said, unless they are towers, set them to small. Bump up the dbs on the rears to make the volume on the rears louder (maybe like +3db or something like that).

Thanks to both of you, so set to small and an increase to +3db's ok.

So what about the bass... I had to place my velo on a iso pad to reduce reverb in my ceiling. but now i want more bass. what's the best way ? Just increase ?

Not sure why you set all your speakers to "large", but keep in mind that unless you are playing material with an LFE channel, that setting will not send a signal to your subwoofer. With your setup, it's not likely you ever heard the sub when the receiver was set to stereo.

"Experts" generally advise setting all the speakers to "small," which results in all low frequency signals (below the crossover point) being sent to your sub, regardless of the channel in which they were encoded. In most cases, this results in more satisfactory bass and eliminates some potential problems.

You may prefer the sound of the "large" setting, but it is the probable explanation for your dilemma. Try a DVD with a strong LFE channel (almost any newer action movie will do if you don't already have a favorite subwoofer"test" disc). Assuming the receiver's subwoofer setting is "yes," you'll probably find your sub is still working fine.

Ok. I bumped up the settings on the rears.

Now I need a good test disc for them.

I think the microphone settings were off... They had my sub down to -10... is that normal ?

Then my center was set lower than the fronts...

I was confused by the settings.

It's not unusual.

Usually, it means your subwoofer amplifier setting is too high. (+/-10 is the limit of MCACC's adjustment range.) You might consider lowering the sub amp volume and running MCACC again until it comes in at about -5. Then you'll know the sub is balanced with the rest of the system.

After that, many people adjust the sub output from the receiver up 3-5 Db, as they prefer the sound of a sub that is set a little "hot."

Moreover, most rooms have a bump or two in the low frequency range, and the MCACC reads that. As a result, some portions of the rest of the bass response may sound a little weak if the "flat" setting is left in place.


That's normal.

Room placement can affect the SPL levels of individual speakers, even if they are identical. In addition, most systems have center speakers of slightly different design than the main left/rights, and their efficiency can vary a little.

Great, Thanks MacFan.

I will reset the Sub and leave the rest accordingly.

Would it be bad (if I had a matching set across the front (which I do)) to have the fronts all set the same ?

I've tested the results with test disc and a SPL meter several times and have found MCACC to be very accurate. Placement and room acoustics can make identical speakers sound different in different locations, which is why the receiver sets them differently.

However, that is not to say you shouldn't change its settings to suit your own preferences.

Sorry if this has already been asked, but I couldn't find it via the search.

Can anyone describe the differences between Pioneer's VSX-1015TX and VSX-1016TXV receivers? Is the 1015 still in production, or is the 1016 the 1015's replacement?

IMHO the 1015 looks better, but I don't know about performance wise and which would be the better choice. Thanks in advance, as I'm trying to narrow it down to one of these.

No one?

The answers are out there for those who search ...

They are different, and each has different strengths and design trade-offs.