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Will there be Region Encoding on the new formats?

post #1 of 94
1/23/05 at 6:04am
Thread Starter 
I know the studios will insist on stronger encryption/copy protection, but will they also carry over the region encoding system? I searched the forum and couldn't find any discussions.
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post #2 of 94
1/23/05 at 9:04am
Quote:


Originally posted by flyersfan
I know the studios will insist on stronger encryption/copy protection, but will they also carry over the region encoding system? I searched the forum and couldn't find any discussions.

Yes. I don't believe it's been officially announced however (could be wrong on that). But region encoding is definitely going to be in there, as it's an essential studio requirement. It's also expected to be encrypted this time around, bringing it under the protection of the DCMA.
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post #3 of 94
1/23/05 at 10:17am
I haven't heard for certain but I too would bet on region coding.
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post #4 of 94
1/27/05 at 2:57pm
They'll probably break up the world into even more, smaller regions, for finer-grained fascism.
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post #5 of 94
1/28/05 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally posted by japanesegeek
. It's also expected to be encrypted this time around, bringing it under the protection of the DCMA.

DVDs are encrypted, in most cases, using CSS. They'll use stronger encryption is probably what you mean.
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post #6 of 94
10/5/05 at 9:01am
bump.

What's the current zeitgeist? Will the studios disable regionfree players? Will they prosecute region hackers?
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post #7 of 94
10/5/05 at 10:17am
The current DVD region coding concept is archaic, because the Internet (movie promotion) is worldwide and the e-business is worldwide.

A lot of people enjoy original version movies; others can only watch dubbed versions.
They are different customers.
In other words, the studios won't lose any money if they adopt the launch business model of the book industry: the English version of the Harry Potter book series has a worldwide launch, and the other language versions arrive some months later.

Original version die-hards currently use region-modified DVD players.
If the region coding lasts with new high def discs, it will encourage hacking!!
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post #8 of 94
10/5/05 at 10:53am
well there's always DVD
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post #9 of 94
10/5/05 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxothuk View Post

DVDs are encrypted, in most cases, using CSS. They'll use stronger encryption is probably what you mean.

I believe he was refering to the region coding itself. A separate encryption from the copy protection.

AACS will NOT handle region coding, so it will have to be an add on. Which means it is far easier for BD to have than HD-DVD, since BD+ is there as a secondary. (That would be a negative comment about BD for all you keeping score ).

It potentially would be a per studio per title mechanism under BD+, making a hack extremely difficult.

Out of curiosity, how many region free player companies pay their DVD license fees?

Gary
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post #10 of 94
10/5/05 at 11:15am
Quote:
Out of curiosity, how many region free player companies pay their DVD license fees?

For sure not the ones from China. I would bet my car on region coding. The studios will make it as difficult as possible to make a backup copy or use cheaper discs from other areas of the world. The region encoding is a huge marketing tool, since prices vary greatly around the world.
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post #11 of 94
10/5/05 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf View Post

AACS will NOT handle region coding

If it's true, I vote for HD DVD!
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post #12 of 94
10/5/05 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielTS View Post

If it's true, I vote for HD DVD!

That will be like voting for Ralph Nader. Without region encoding the studios won't be allowing any titles to be released on any format that doesn't have that capability.

But I will admit, I haven't seen too many Corvairs on the road lately.
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post #13 of 94
10/5/05 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielTS View Post

If it's true, I vote for HD DVD!

Careful, it doesn't mean HD-DVD won't be doing region coding. I just said AACS won't be.

It's wait and see for both formats. But, it probably is far easier for BD.

Gary
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post #14 of 94
10/5/05 at 12:33pm
Look at it this way-

You say that potential market in the US for high-def DVD is very small. Well, in Europe it is insignificant. If I want iHD, I'm pretty sure I'll have to import it from Japan or America for at least the first few years. So either we have multiregion players or we import player and software from the same place.
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post #15 of 94
10/5/05 at 12:54pm
Right, Grubert. But I sure would prefer getting the player here, and importing movies from wherever I like. But knowing the studios, that does seem unlikely. Bummer.

NilsP
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post #16 of 94
10/5/05 at 1:27pm
I live in the UK but it would be no problem for my brother who lives in the US to get hold of a US BR player for me.

However, if an internet connection may be required to watch anything, will I still be defeated unless I can find a US Proxy server?

Nick
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post #17 of 94
10/5/05 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

You say that potential market in the US for high-def DVD is very small. Well, in Europe it is insignificant.

In Australia, region-coding was actually declared illegal by the courts. If region-coding is required on either or both of the new HD formats, I guess Australia won't be getting any HD discs.
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post #18 of 94
10/5/05 at 1:45pm
Was region-coding actually declared illegal, or was it just determined to be illegal to prosecute people who sold or modified players to make them region-free?
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post #19 of 94
10/5/05 at 7:22pm
the simple answer is that no one has any idea (if region coding will be on any players)

PS AACS is not finnalized so even saying it is not in AACS is not saying much
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post #20 of 94
10/6/05 at 1:11pm
Info in the big thread :

Quote:
Originally Posted by erdega79 View Post

From Ceatec Japan

...

The DVD forum, holding "Japan Conference 2005"
"The region cord/code abolition" of HD DVD is thick
- As for "HD DVD-RR" after the next spring. "DVD-RAM2"

Thanks for the info!
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post #21 of 94
10/6/05 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

Was region-coding actually declared illegal, or was it just determined to be illegal to prosecute people who sold or modified players to make them region-free?

I don't live in Australia, but it was my understanding that all DVD players sold in the country are required to be region-free.

However, I could be wrong, considering that their discs are still coded for Region 4.
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post #22 of 94
10/6/05 at 2:38pm
I Googled "Australia region code", and after some sifting found a PS2 case involving region codes where it was essentially declared okay to mod a chip for region free play of games, but that case did not declare region coding illegal, just not enforceable legally. In other words, content owners were free to put region codes on discs, they just couldn't stop anyone from making players which ignored it.

Which might have the same marketplace effect as making region-locked players illegal, but is not the same thing at all. What this precedent would say is that if you were able to hack a high-def DVD player to remove region coding and it still somehow passed AACS muster (otherwise it wouldn't work), the content owners or manufacturers could not sue you or try to have you arrested.

Hence, from my reading, HD disk players with region-coding would not be illegal for electronics manufacturers to sell in Australia.
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post #23 of 94
10/7/05 at 6:10am
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000873062235/

Quote:


[O]ne statement from Toshiba Digital Media Networks' Hisashi Yamada was particularly intriguing: We've gotten a variety of opinions about region controls. Even in the Steering Committee, they are extremely unpopular; we decided to not put them in. HD DVD probably won't contain any region playback controls.

Here's hoping BR will follow suit.
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post #24 of 94
10/7/05 at 7:20am
Quote:


HD DVD probably won't contain any region playback controls

Grubert: you did see the highlighted word didn't you?
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post #25 of 94
10/7/05 at 7:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP View Post

Grubert: you did see the highlighted word didn't you?


Yes, I did. But on this forum, firm announcements in general are very thin on the ground, aren't they?
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post #26 of 94
10/9/05 at 10:56am
Update, posted by amillians on the main thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians View Post

Some more on regional coding and BD-ROM. It looks like BD will in fact use regional coding on the disc, but it will (as pointed out in other posts relating to patent 20050198115) allow for a means to allow a player to play non-region discs *if* certain conditions are met (e.g., the content is available for sale in the region the player is tied to). The binding process (stored in non-vol RAM) will require an online transaction. That said, there are some weird caveats...for example, the process allows for region-specific scene censoring (e.g., if a local censor *cough* China *cough* doesn't want it's population to see X, the region binding process can apparently bind to a pre-defined title playlist that forces scenes containing X to be skipped during playback).

Also, the above patent doesn't cover the concept of Region 0 playback devices, and there's talk of creating yet another process to allow discs to bind with certain playback environments (e.g., a laptop or portable device) to synthesize region free playback...again, blessed through an online transaction. The really odd thing (and expensive thing!) is that since people are wary of having to connect their decks to the net, it is suggested that content providers could issue an SD memory card with each disc with the proper credentials to allow region binding.

N.B.: Don't take the above as gospel...it's based on a CED report, and the BDA wouldn't comment. I can't image a content holder issuing a freakin SD memory card to "de-regionalize" their content. Since Warner and Disney have hinted strongly that they don't give a rat's a$$ about region coding, perhaps the BDA would do best to simply allow content holders to value a region code as 0 on the disc instead of going through all the freakin machinations.
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post #27 of 94
11/8/05 at 8:08am
Just read this on HTF. Sony is likely to abandon its practice of region coding games for its PlayStation 3 console.

[QUOTESony Computer Entertainment Australia managing director, Michael Ephraim, said the company was unlikely to continue the [games region coding] policy as international television standards emerge.

"If you look at the fact that it will support high-definition TV, which will be a global standard, there's a good likelihood that it will be global region, as for example we've done with the PSP (PlayStation Portable)," Mr Ephraim said. [/quote]

Now they only have to apply that very wise logic to movie region coding.
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post #28 of 94
11/8/05 at 12:03pm
I was told the PSP games aren't region coded. Don't know about UMD movies.
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post #29 of 94
11/8/05 at 3:14pm
I think we won't be lucky and both formats will have RC, hopefully (but I am not holding my breath) RC won't be used.
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post #30 of 94
12/19/05 at 4:34am
Posted by PeterJK on the big thread, quoting a thread on beyond3d who referred to IT Media.

Quote:
Though Warner was eager to abolish region code and there were no objection until the final decision, film companies not in AACS LA opposed it and it was decided that region code stays in AACS. But it undergoes reorganization. Basically, Japan and other East Asian countries except for China are moved to Region 1. The new region codes are

Region 1: North America, South America, East Asia except for China (India, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Malaysia etc.)
Region 2: Europe and Africa
Region 3: China, Russia and other countries

As a European, I must say this totally sucks. How many titles are being released locally, considering the microscopic potential market? Obviously they consider the only HD market is North America + Japan.

To make things worse, region coding will be embedded in AACS, so there won't be any easy region-free hacks. And if there is one and you apply it, and then 'they' detect what you've done, your player could get disabled.
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