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putting larger hard drive in Yam MusicCAST - Page 3

post #61 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by topcoat View Post

Setter,

Found this thread while drilling down to find the latest on new gear to update my old sony es jukeboxes. Collection size about 1200 cd's. My question on Yamaha's Music cast is, how much does it cost to upgrade the 2000 hard drive to 750gb?

Are there competing products with similar price ranges to the Yamaha? I'm just looking for something to play my whole collection on shuffle. A stand alone product that basically has nothing to due with my computers.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

The only other "all in one" box I've come across is the Olive Musica.
http://www.olive.us/p_bin/?cid=produ...pecs#harddrive

These boxes essentially do the same thing as the MCX-2000. CD player, CD-R, hard dive, internet radio, networkable, WiFi, mini lcd display. Where the Olive has an edge over the MCX:
- Much lower retail price. MSRP is $1,100 for 160 gb unit. (no idea on actual street prices)
- Software is PowerPC
- Many more audio formats supported
- Two USB ports (add more hard drives/perphs as you wish)

With a more standard PC o/s and two USB ports you could add two external hard drives (if needed) to get all those 1200 cd's on to mass storage.

I'm a HUGE fan of Yamaha products and I think this MCS unit is rock solid. But, for me, the MCX just has too many hits against it:
- Price
- Closed architecture (have to pay Yamaha authorized personnel to upgrade to more storage)
- no USB ports

With that said, there are two BIG advantages the MCX has:
- Yamaha name & build quality
- two video outs

These video outs to your TV will come in very handy searching through 1200 CD's!

Setter is right, getting 1200 CD's onto one hard drive would mean 1tb or more if uncompressed. Another option is to use the FLAC compression (no loss compression) which should save you 30% to 50% of your hard drive space. But again, using FLAC means you cannot use the Yamaha as it's "proprietary" software will only recognize MP3, WMA and WAV.

You have other, simpler options to accomplish what you want. Upgrade your AVR to one that has a USB input, put all your CD's onto one MASSIVE external USB hard drive, let the AVR "shuffle" from there. You could probably buy a new AVR and 2tb external hard disk for less than the MCX sells for alone. This is what I did, and it has worked out quite nice. Though, I did not have anywhere near 1200 CD's.
post #62 of 153
thank you toby.....
post #63 of 153
Hmm, how about this. Load the most often used CDs on the MusicCAST's 750Gb drive and the more obscure ones on a wired or wireless PC. The MCX-2000 can reach out and play them with some optional Yammy software. If the software is not still located on the MusicCAST website, I'll include a copy with any work I do.
post #64 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by setter View Post

Hmm, how about this. Load the most often used CDs on the MusicCAST's 750Gb drive and the more obscure ones on a wired or wireless PC. The MCX-2000 can reach out and play them with some optional Yammy software. If the software is not still located on the MusicCAST website, I'll include a copy with any work I do.

That's actually a good idea setter. Kind of a "favorites" local shuffle on the MCX. For extended mix shuffle listening, have the MCX reach out to the pc.

BTW: Just curious, with the MCX, how does one connect for a hard drive backup? RS232? Network (RJ45)? As there is no USB port, I'm just curious.

MCX > cable > external hard drive

MCX > cable > pc > cable > external hard drive
post #65 of 153
On the Crutchfield.com web page for the Yamaha MCX 2000 device, on the 'Reviews' page a customer announces he successfully upgraded his device from 160-750 gig. I want/need to do the same. So far, Crutchfield will not provide contact info to the gentleman who made the upgrade. I very much would appreciate any detailed info that would allow me sufficient info to upgrade my unit. I would like (preferably) a schematic including nomenclature on the make/model of the 750 gig hard drive, and installation procedure, and, if required, software used to complete the process. In addition, how do I transfer the loaded cd files from my saturated 160 drive (currently installed) to the new hard drive? Don/woundedduck1@msn.com
post #66 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by woundedduck1 View Post

On the Crutchfield.com web page for the Yamaha MCX 2000 device, on the 'Reviews' page a customer announces he successfully upgraded his device from 160-750 gig. I want/need to do the same. So far, Crutchfield will not provide contact info to the gentleman who made the upgrade. I very much would appreciate any detailed info that would allow me sufficient info to upgrade my unit. I would like (preferably) a schematic including nomenclature on the make/model of the 750 gig hard drive, and installation procedure, and, if required, software used to complete the process. In addition, how do I transfer the loaded cd files from my saturated 160 drive (currently installed) to the new hard drive? Don/woundedduck1@msn.com

I did not read the review but I'd bet that customer upgraded through an authorized Yamaha dealer. The hard drive's "OS" is Yamaha proprietary and requires special software to upgrade the hard drive or even to back up the music files.
post #67 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

I did not read the review but I'd bet that customer upgraded through an authorized Yamaha dealer. The hard drive's "OS" is Yamaha proprietary and requires special software to upgrade the hard drive or even to back up the music files.

The mcx-2000 has a backup routine to a PC HDD if you load version 2 software update. BTY, the most recent software/firmware update is version 3. Version 3 software/firmware update also allows you to connect directly with your PC if you are using Media Connect 2.0/MS Media Player 11. Yamaha has not posted the availablity of version 3 software, but they will ship it to you if you say you are using MS Media Player 11 and can not connect your PC to the MCX-2000.
post #68 of 153
Don\\Toby10: Version 3 is available from Yamaha. Just order vesion 2 from the MusicCAST website and you will receive version 3 in the mail in a couple of days.

As for upgrading your own hard drive, I tried every which way without the Yamaha software and was unsuccessful. I have all the official Yamaha tools and will happily upgrade your system. Drop me a PM for details. DonS
post #69 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhhunter View Post

The mcx-2000 has a backup routine to a PC HDD if you load version 2 software update. BTY, the most recent software/firmware update is version 3. Version 3 software/firmware update also allows you to connect directly with your PC if you are using Media Connect 2.0/MS Media Player 11. Yamaha has not posted the availablity of version 3 software, but they will ship it to you if you say you are using MS Media Player 11 and can not connect your PC to the MCX-2000.

Through what cable connection is the backup routine accomplished? RJ45? RS232?
post #70 of 153
The backup routine on the MCX-2000 copies a compressed copy of your entire dataset to a networked PC via a wired Cat5e cable with RJ45 end thru your ethernet hub. Yikes, that's a mouth-full! A copy of a full 160GB HDD can take days as per Yamaha. I find it easier to remove the drive and mirror it in a PC. If you are trying to make the data accessible on your PC, you will not be easily successful unless you can find a way to crack the compressed data file. Great questions, keep 'em coming!
post #71 of 153
Wow, I just figured out how to modify the MCX-1000 and MCX-2000 to handle a 1TB SATA hard disk drive. There are some space issues inside the units as well as adapter and cables. But the MusicCAST works the same with the 1TB HD as with the standard IDE drives. I'm going to put my old MCX-1000 on eBay and see if there is a market for a system that can hold more than 1000 CDs. This is fun!
post #72 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by setter View Post

Wow, I just figured out how to modify the MCX-1000 and MCX-2000 to handle a 1TB SATA hard disk drive. There are some space issues inside the units as well as adapter and cables. But the MusicCAST works the same with the 1TB HD as with the standard IDE drives. I'm going to put my old MCX-1000 on eBay and see if there is a market for a system that can hold more than 1000 CDs. This is fun!

WOW indeed! That is very cool setter.

I really think Yamaha shot themselves in the foot with the entire MCX line in not offering consumers USB ports allowing for additional storage space. But breaking the TB barrier is definitely a step up.
post #73 of 153
I read that you had to get the restore CD from a dealer, but am not finding any dealers that have it or know how to get it. I simply want to install a larger hard disk in a friends MCX-1000. I work with computers and have no problem with installing firmware or running a format routine. I can't believe the software to backup / restore the disk format has been this hard to find. I can even burn it to disk if I can download it from somewhere?
Any help would be appreciated.
post #74 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by doodle5 View Post

I read that you had to get the restore CD from a dealer, but am not finding any dealers that have it or know how to get it. I simply want to install a larger hard disk in a friends MCX-1000. I work with computers and have no problem with installing firmware or running a format routine. I can't believe the software to backup / restore the disk format has been this hard to find. I can even burn it to disk if I can download it from somewhere?
Any help would be appreciated.

I'm sure setter in here can give you some ideas to resolve this for you.

It is the MCX's "proprietary" software & it's imposed limitations for backing up and upgrading that persuaded me to look elsewhere for a media streaming device.

It is difficult to find because Yamaha wants to force you to go through it's dealers for such "upgrades". Which wouldn't be so bad if the dealers who do have the appropriate software & know how were not so rare and if they charged a *reasonable* price for the upgrade service. Backing up should be seamless and simple, otherwise people won't do the backups putting their entire media collection at risk of being lost.
post #75 of 153
Setter, Ive had an MCX-1000 for some time now and I would like to get my music libarary off this device and put it on an ipod that is compatable with my cars stereo. I hooked the hard drive up to my computer and the computer see's it as an un partitioned disk... Any suggestions?
post #76 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo8772 View Post

Setter, Ive had an MCX-1000 for some time now and I would like to get my music libarary off this device and put it on an ipod that is compatable with my cars stereo. I hooked the hard drive up to my computer and the computer see's it as an un partitioned disk... Any suggestions?

I believe the only way to get anything off of (copy) your MCX units requires the Yamaha proprietary software.
post #77 of 153
You can easily copy songs and entire CDs from your MCX-1000 (or MCX-2000) for playback on other CD players and thus ripped to MP3 or ACC (iPod), howeverm that assumes the music is stored in full PCM format on the MusicCAST. This is another reason why massive hard drive have become popular with the MusicCAST - they have more flexibility when the full PCM is stored and that requires lots of hard disk space.

Toby10 is 100% correct in that the only way to move the MP3 data from the MusicCAST is during the backup routines provided on the Yamaha authorized repair disks.
post #78 of 153
I have successfully upgraded the MCX-2000 to a Seagate DB35.3 500GB drive. A 500GB drive will record approx 750 CDs in PCM, or 3200+ hours of MP3 time @320kps. The largest IDE drive available is 750GB, providing approx 1000+ CDs in PCM and nearly 5000 hours of MP3.

I chose this drive over a regular 7200.9 or 7200.10, because the DB35.3 drive specs are lower power, quieter, and designed for media devices. The DB35.3 has a larger cache than the original WD1600 it replaces.

The MCX-2000 is noticeably cooler when ripping CDs now. Not a very scientific test, but before, the WD1600 got hot so that the MCX2000 case was warm/hot to the touch. With the DB35.3 the device remains cool.

I'm a little hesitant on the 1TB upgrades for three reasons:

1./ SATA drives consume more power than the IDE equivalents
2./ The SATA/IDE converter requires power too
3./ Unless you find the *PERFECT* SATA/IDE converter, then fitting is not straightforward. It requires opening up the MusicCAST, not just the HDD caddy. The HDD caddy in the MCX2000 is pretty tight and doesnt leave much room for the converter. Its do-able but requires some creative thinking, and the result isnt very elegant. Unless you get your hands on the *perfect* that just squeezes in: http://www.cooldrives.com/sahadradtoid.html

The overall power consumption of a SATA drive plus SATA/IDE converter is quite a lot more than the original drive. That could be reason for concern. It's taking the device beyond its design specification, and if you open up the box, you will see there isnt much redundancy in the PSU. If anyone does go the SATA route... then find a very low power HDD to keep current draw to a minimum.

To upgrade the HDD you need a copy of the "MCX-2000 Format and Recovery Disc" Article No. YA000718. A copy of the Service Manual helps, although not really needed if you are happy with opening up PCs and fixing/changing stuff yourself.
post #79 of 153
Nice work. We now have another hard drive to add to our compatibility list - and at bargain prices!

As for power consumption and the resulting heat generation (power in is mostly converted to heat out), it is true that SATA requires more power the UATA\\IDE\\PATA drive - but only in the equivalent GB capacity and age. All newer hard drives use less power than older designed and produced hard drives. In other words, the older 80GB and 160GB drives in the MCX-1000 and MCX-2000 series require more power than the 500GB regardless of SATA or IDE protocol. You gotta love the constant progress of technology!! Check out this article for details: http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/.../hddpower.html

I've jumped to a 1TB Western Digital drive for my MCX-2000. It is nearly silent and ran unbelievably cool during the 27 hour backup compared to the 500GB PATA I was backing up. Usually the 80GB or 160GB PATA drives are hot to the touch during the shorter 6 hour backup. Less heat out means less power in, so the WD Green drives must be super efficient. They claim a 40% savings in power. I've upgraded some Seagate 1TB drives and they are cooler than the PATAs working just as hard.

Life is changing rapidly as Yamaha is ending production of the MCX- series and Seagate is rumored to end production of their PATA drives soon. We need to keep pace with the changes.
post #80 of 153
Great link! And very valid points. Perhaps i will consider a re-upgrade to 1TB (or higher, when they are released!). Do you have any particular SATA-IDE converters that you recommend... or suggest avoiding?

For everyone's info, my stock drive was: WD1600 (BB), spec sheet wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1232. Summary: 19W max at startup, 12W typical use.

The 500GB Seagate DB35 I replaced it with is: 24W max at startup, 8W typical use. The SATA version of the same DB35 has a higher power requirement: 24W max at startup, 10W typical use. PLUS add the SATA-IDE converter (host bridge) on top, usually quoted as 1-2W.

I just looked at a couple of other drives for comparison. Summary:
  • WD1600, 160GB IDE: 19W max at startup, 12W typical use.
  • Seagate DB35, 750GB IDE: 24W max at startup, 8W typical use.
  • Seagate DB35, 750GB SATA: 24W mas at startup, 10W typical use.
  • Seagate 7200.11 1000GB SATA: 30W max at startup, 12W typical use.
  • WD Green Power 1000GB SATA: 24W max at startup, 8W typical use.
So as setter said, as long as the specs of the new drive are lower (less another 2W or so for the SATA-IDE converter) than the original 12W, then everything should be AOK. The recommendation of the WD GP series is the way to go.
post #81 of 153
Western Digital WD2500JB-00EVA0 250GB
Seagate ST3200822 200GB
post #82 of 153
hello,
instead of use yamaha's hdd software, can I use Norton Ghost on a PC or Carbone Copy Cloner on Ã* Mac ??

thanks a lot.
post #83 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathmask78 View Post

hello,
instead of use yamaha's hdd software, can I use Norton Ghost on a PC or Carbone Copy Cloner on Ã* Mac ??

thanks a lot.

Nope.
post #84 of 153
Well actually, yes, you can make an exact copy of the MusicCAST hard drive with multiple programs. However, you'll have a mirror copy when finished. You'll have an 80GB partition on a 500GB hard drive wasting 420GB. Mirror copies are the fastest way to perform a backup of the MCX hard drive. Only the Yamaha software seems to expand the partition...
post #85 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by setter View Post

Well actually, yes, you can make an exact copy of the MusicCAST hard drive with multiple programs. However, you'll have a mirror copy when finished. You'll have an 80GB partition on a 500GB hard drive wasting 420GB. Mirror copies are the fastest way to perform a backup of the MCX hard drive. Only the Yamaha software seems to expand the partition...

Would this exact copy be bootable (fully functional) on the MCX? Minus the 420gb's obviously. Also, I presume the original HD must be removed from the MCX to do the mirror copy?
post #86 of 153
for mirror copy, I can backup a partition with windows to a larger partition : it works !
so why not with the MCX-1000 ?

without doing backup,
a new no-formated hard drive can be installed without using yamaha hdd software ?
post #87 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathmask78 View Post

for mirror copy, I can backup a partition with windows to a larger partition : it works !
so why not with the MCX-1000 ?

without doing backup,
a new no-formated hard drive can be installed without using yamaha hdd software ?

Because, unfortunately, you bought a product with proprietary software.
post #88 of 153
Does anyone know where I can get the latest software version for my MCX 2000? I've tried to order it twice from Yamaha. They keep telling me they are sending it, but I have never received it to date! Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Krellman
post #89 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by krellman7 View Post

Does anyone know where I can get the latest software version for my MCX 2000? I've tried to order it twice from Yamaha. They keep telling me they are sending it, but I have never received it to date! Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Krellman

I'll bet setter could hook you up.
post #90 of 153
Does anyone have the "Rescue/Format/Recovery" file for an MCX 2000 they can email to me? Various people want me to ship my unit half way across the country. I really don't want to ship the unit. I have already installed the new hard drive and just need the software. If anyone can help me out I would really appreciate it! If you can help, please email me at tjzaudio@optonline.net
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