Walnut Creek, CA - HDTV - Page 3

Hey, thanks for the suggestion, and tip on how to do it. First time I ever used the edit feature. It works great. As long as I can learn something new each day, there's hope for me yet.

Bob,
Thanks for the invite to "DRIVE BY ONLY". I am also in a form of law enforcement and live next to Heather Farm. I may just pass by to see your setup, though I live in a HOA, I still may be able to put something up there depending on the size. So don't be alarm if you see a suspicous looking character driving slowly and staring at your home, it may just be my wife. I will be next to her

Your're right Rick! Things are moving along and I think in the right direction. I haven't sent anything yet, because of your last response from them, so I was just waiting to see what happens next on your part, but in light of what we heard from Bob, I may just re-start my efforts . Also I am still waiting on that NBC waiver request. Should I request again or just be patient.

Yes that D* fax number would be great, also do you know of a more direct number to D*'s HD eligibility number. I just hate going though those prompts.

Your HOA really cannot keep you from mounting an antenna in your airspace. Check this thread. The FCC rules are linked in the Scooper's signature line, or can be read here.

NO problem with looking at my antenna. When you do, you can disregard the horizontal Yagi antenna. That's just there to see if I can get the KNTV VHF signal from Mt. San Bruno whenever they get it up and running. I'm not counting on it, but since I had already purchased that Ch. 11 tuned antenna in a failed attempt to reach Loma Prieta, I doesn't cost anything to leave it there and try it later. You may notice that I'm higher than the valley floor of WC, which makes getting something from Sutro tower more likely.

If you want to know how it's mounted, I have the bottom of the mast clamped to a vent pipe, two of the three guy wires also attached to two other vent pipes, and the third guywire attached to a brace I mounted under the eave end next to the big redwood tree. With the CM4228 UHF antenna, it has a good sized "sail" to it, even if it is a screen. I would have had it come down in some recent storms, but that's because the wind can really whip around from the high ridge that's just behind my house. The way I attached it to the roof means I have nothing mounted on the roof surface itself. That keeps the roof intact. City building inspectors tell me there in not a problem attaching anything to a vent pipe like that, since it does not interfere with the venting. I drilled a small 3/16 "hole in the metal of the copper pipes and attached a small eye bolt for the guywires.

You might want to consider contacting an antenna installer who could test to see if you can get digital reception where you live, and if not, not charge you too much just for the testing. (assuming you can find one who will do it that way) I suspect getting the Sacramento stations on the Walnut Grove tower could also be a possiblilty for you, living out in the east valley of WC. You could take a look at the azimuth to those channels on the map available at antennaweb.org from your address, and see what kind of line of sight might exist, if you can get up to or close to roof level. You don't necessarily need line of sight, but more probably a good reflection from something someplace in between. If you can't get up high enough, that is at antenna height, look at your azimuth going the other way, and see if there is a hill behind you that you could look from over that along that same azimuth. A simple compass could really help that, since you can then duplicate that angle from anywhere nearby. I think the hills over near the small golf course on the west side of Heather farm might work, or even on the west side of the park near Marchbanks could do the same. Ideally you want to be where you can see what might be in the way toward Walnut Grove. Sometimes people can get a reflection from something that comes from a direction that can surprise you.

I had an installer give me a price for mounting an indentical antenna to mine on my chimney, with a two priced arrangement: works/doesn't work. It got mixed results, so I took his "not good (enough) reception" price, and thanked him for his efforts. (He's no longer in the business.) I then later purchased the same antenna myself, along with a CM7777 VHF/UHF premap (you may be able to see the first part of it mounted just below the top "screen reflector" antenna.) That boosts the signal strength right at that point, so a strong signal can get down my RG-6 lead-in coaxial cabling.
The power source for the preamp plugs into 110 near your HDTV receiver, and the cable runs first to it and then to the receiver. I tried mounting the antenna myself on the other end of my house using the vent pipes for mounting and guy wiring, and with a little tinkering around, wound up with some great reception off of Sutro.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but what the heck...

Being on the board of an HOA where I have a condo for my mom elswhere in WC, I know that HOA's need to allow for reasonable accommodation to allow for antennas or satellite dishes. The board reviews proposed installations, because not one set of rules can apply to each and every location, and allows the installations that minimize obtrusiveness while still being allowed for installation. Sometimes we suggest alternative locations for an antenna that minimizes its visibility, if that can be done without diminishing reception. HOAs should not let antenna installers mount antennas anywhere they want using whatever method, but they do have to allow for antennas where possible. I know about this because I wrote the rule for the HOA that covers those things, when the law changed that called for such accommodation.

BTW, the "drive-by" comment was "tongue-in-cheek". If you really want a closer look at it, try the doorbell and ask for me. I might be home.
If I'm not home, watch out for the rotweiler..............just kidding.

See, I really AM long-winded.

Just a couple of thoughts: There are no doubt a number of fax machines all over D*'s location, and probably at more than one location. Sending a fax that is not solicited, and which may not involve whomever picks it up, may get it just round-filed if not expected. I think it would be better to get a fax number from someone you talk to, who can then expect your fax that will follow.

Example, I got a fax number from someone named "Andy" in the HD waiver section, or whatever it's called, and he said it was his fax machine, and he would look for my fax. Having contacted those folks a number of times, I seemed to always get someone different, so I suggest a fax to a named person, with their name on it as the recipient, at a fax number given to you by them. That way it's far more likely to get acted upon, in my opinion.

But that's just me.....

got a reply from direct TV when I forwarded your email without your name..

Here is the same ole B.S.

Dear Dave,

Thank you for writing. I'm sorry, but December 2004 changes in the Satellite
Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act (SHVERA) prohibits DIRECTV from providing New York or Los Angeles TV stations in areas where we carry local channels. Because we offer local channels in Tucson AZ, we cannot provide youwith non-local network feeds.

New York or Los Angeles networks are now only available to customers who do not live in a Local TV Market (using boundaries established by Nielsen Media (Research) and who cannot receive an over-the-air signal from a local TV station, according to standards of signal reception we are required to use (significant restrictions apply).

Please understand that federal law -- not DIRECTV -- sets strict guidelines for receiving non-local broadcast channels.

In addition, I apologize if you've had trouble getting answers to your questions up to now. As a result of recent changes in the law, a lot of the old rules and regulations no longer apply.

Currently, we have special permission from the national ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX networks to provide their digital (HD) broadcasts only in cities where they own the local station. Unfortunately, we do not have permission to offer CBS/NBC/ABC/FOX-HD in your area, so we can't provide them to you right now.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience. We hope this information has been helpful. Thanks for your understanding and please stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

Liza
DIRECTV Customer Service

Today I did call the FCC and basically was told to contact my congressman.

Left a message with Senator McCain.. I plan on waiting up all night until he calls

Just as a reference point for everyone on this thread, I live in in unincorporated WC, in the hills NW of 24/680 interchange.

A couple of years ago I did get an OTA reciever and a decent antenna, and even at my altitude ( I have to pay a pretty high elevation charge on my water bill) and putting the antenna way up the hillside I could only pull in 1 independant station that I believe was broadcasting off of Mt Diablo.

For you guys at lower elevations the chances of getting OTA on the major networks seem pretty slim to me.

Luckily unicorporated WC does have the comcast upgrades so I have HD through that outlet (dish is tough for me because of trees in the hills).

Have you tried getting signals from the Walnut Grove tower? With your elevation, thats possible. I'm not sure what kind of antenna you have, but some of them can be pretty directional, such as the CM4228. For a reflected signal, the aiming can be tricky, so you would have to move it slowly, and make sure your mast is vertical. If you don't have a CM4228 with a CM7777 preamp, you might be able to get one from Fry's on a "no questions asked return policy".
I'm not sure if they carry the preamps though. If you aren't trying to get a VHF digital signal along with the UHF digitals, (only one I'm familiar with in this area is KNTV-NBC Ch 11-1 south of San Jose. That calls for a tuned VHF antenna, and don't even try from Loma Prieta. It's not doable from Walnut Creek. there is another preamp from CM that only handles UHF. . Both are the same price.

Of course another way is with a rotor to try for reception, but that'a a lot more expense, not to mention the work to put it up and wire it. Besides, a couple of degress can make a difference, and it's hard to step them through very small increments. Just my experience from many years past. Maybe they're better now..

If you try this, aim based on the antennaweb.org azimuth map ffor your address, and try it slowly on either side of that. If you get nothing, try a little more. What you may find is that you are looking for a good reflection off of somthing. With a preamp and a high gain antenna, if it's at all possible, the above equipment can do it.

I have done a lot of digging on antennas and preamps, and can say with some assurance that the CM4228 has the highest gain and is the most directional UHF antenna out there, and the CM preamps have the lowest noise ratio of them all, a big plus as well. Just my opinions.

If you decide to check possible reception from Walnut Grove, the best way is to try it out during daytime (so you can what you're doing on a roof) with a known digital channel. Remember that normally you must have your receiver set up to receive that channel, and have your channel guide also keyed in for that channel. Otherwise, you get zip. Different receivers have different setups, so you may have to read your receiver manual if you are unfamiliar with that process.

Bob VH (That long-winded guy...)

In several places I have read that D* said they have problems turning on HD, even though you have obtained a waiver, because it also turns on SD, (for that channel), and they can't do that. Total bull honky.

First of all, I'm relatively sure nobody is seeking a waiver for anything but the HD feed from a given local provider. There are in fact two kinds of responses from D* on waiver requests, those for "regular" (SD) broadcasts, and those for HD. I actually got two different postcards from them. those were titled as: (in response postcards from D*)
"Broadcast Network Waiver Request From DIRECTV" and
"HD Broadcast Network Waiver Request from DIRECTV"

Second, you shouldn't be asking for an HD waiver anyway unless you are either subscribed to local channels, or have that included in some other package with D*. In other words, you are paying for local cahnnels.

You should only be asking for the HD Broadcast Wiaver for whatever station you are seeking HD from.

D* uses three satellites, at 101 degrees, 110 degrees, and 119 degrees.
The first is for all their regular (SD) transmissions. 110 and 119, as they are referred to, are used for their HD satellite signals. (101 is pretty much taken up by the SD stations, because those do not require much bandwidth for transmission. (ergo, the somewhat fuzzy pictures, upon which you can't improve). HD requires a whole lot more bandwidth for each channel, because there is so much more data to transmit for HD. The 110 satellite got added not too long ago so they could gear up for more HD tramsmissions. (you're going to need a 3-LNB [low noise blocker] satellite dish if you want to receive those new ones from D*. Those have 3 receptors in front of the oval dish, rather than two).

If in any way possible, they are going to want to recoup their costs, which I understand can be quite high. (to put up another set of satellites at another orbital location.) Those costs will be used to justify the increase in subsciption prices for those who elect to receive the additional transmissions of HD signals. But once they have recovered their costs, the rest is gravy. Think of Ruppert Murdock somewhere back in the shadows behind the money making potential in that. (Shadow owner of D*)

Well, this has also fallen into the "way too long" post, (don't most of mine?) so I'll cut it off here, and see if there are any questions or comments. If not, I'm just another voice in the background. I can live with that.....

If you are going to try to get reception from Walnut Grove I would suggest trying to look for the analog UHF stations (31, 40, and 58) first because they would be much easier to peak your antenna on. If you can get reception of the analogs I would then look for the DTV stations. The Sacramento stations broadcast from a group of 2000 foot tall towers and Walnut Creek is well within range in any areas not blocked by hills.

The only problem for good ole' Walnut Creek is, just about every area is blocked by hills, Mount Diablo backs up to Easterly Walnut Creek (East of Bancroft) and the hills that Ygnacio Valley runs over is going to impede reception for people in the "valley" area of Walnut Creek. I have no idea what it would be like for people in more Westerly Walnut Creek, but the area is one of lots of hills. And even then...more downtown Walnut Creek, like near WCI, has to contend with the hill between Homestead and Heather Farms park.

Hi Rick,
If you're using the D* triple LNB dish, you are already pointed correctly. When I plug in your zipcode (94595 or nearby), the pointing info on my D* receiver says you should be aimed at 146 degrees magnetic, 44 degrees elevation and 105 degrees tilt. Do a signal strength check on Sats A, B and C. Most transponders 1-32 on Sat A at 101 degrees should be 75 or higher. So should transponders 22-32 on Sat B at 119 degrees and 8, 10 and 12 on Sat C at 110 degrees. If they are, you're aimed properly with no local obstructions.
The difference between your compass reading and the satellite orbital slot is your position on the ground relative to the satellite location and the magnetic declination in this area, which is about 16 degrees east of True North.
Carl

Yes. Your location is approximately 122 degrees West Longitude. If you were going to point at a satellite in the 122 degree orbital slot, it would be due south of you. That would be 180 degrees True and 164 degrees Magnetic.
Carl

Congrats Rick! Glad to see you could get those beautiful Walnut Grove signals! er...Ralph

Being able to get great HD from either Sutro or Walnut Grove for nothing beyond your initial outlay for the antenna stuff is a warm feeling, and you don't have to go through the uncooperative waiver BS from D*. "Free" is not in their profit making interests, ergo all the foot-dragging.

An alternative to buying antenna masts is to get an equivalent diameter & length of EMT at your local hardware store, such as Yardbirds where I got mine. A 10' length cost me under $4. EMT is rigid galvanized electrical conduit. Great for anything outside above ground.

Make sure to check how your 4228 does in strong wind, in case you didn't guywire it place. That screen can make quite a sail if the wind is high enough.

If there isn't something higher nearby that could act as a good ground, if you are concerned about lightning, you could consider grounding your mast to a vent pipe on your roof. Guying to vents does the same thing.

The vent pipes of course must be metal, usually copper. Depending on the age of the house, some of the newer ones might be something else, and won't serve as a ground.

So, that's what happened to my old TV!! I thought it was burglars.

Wow, 17' off the ground mounted to a metal fence post. Forget my comments about grounding. I don't know why, but I kept thinking of a rooftop installation. That's an unusually good result from an unusual mounting location, especially only that high up. But if it gives you ..er Ralph such great results, why not. Most installers will tell you the higher you can get it, the better the reception. I mention this primarily for anyone else thinking of going the antenna route.

I've been tinkering with antennas since I made my first crystal radio in 1948. In 1954, my antenna fix for the old TV in my frat house at USC was made out of two wire coat hangers stuck in a piece of old wood at about 30-35 degrees apart, and you just turned the wood piece on top of the set for best reception. Back then, transmission towers in LA were not all in the same location. sometimes we had to bend the coat hangers some. As I recall, beer always seemed to be a better investment that a good antenna system.
The 4228 is like 16 sets of small wire coat hangers with a metal reflector screen to bounce back the signal to increase the gain, collected at each of the eight "X"s (actually 16 "V"s) in front of it. The length of the members of the "X"s is at an average harmonic along their length for the UHF bandsread of signals being transmitted, but the principle is sort of the same idea.

The fact that you were able to get much of anything analog is a fluke. Remember when TV sets only had channels 2-13? Those were all VHF analog signals. Your settop box is for digital reception, such as you get from
satellites or the digital elements on a TV tower. Those towers also have
analog transmiting antennas for the standard TV brodcasts to the antennas designed for analog tranmissions. You don't see those old antennas around much anymore. You needed a series of antenna lengths and reflectors mounted on a horizontal bar for any kind of distance from the towers, which were not all in one location. But I digress.....don't I...

The 4228 is a UHF antenna there's no relevant distinction (as far as the antenna goes) between digital or analog. The antenna's ability will vary as to the wavelength of the signal, VHF-Low vs. VHF-High vs. UHF. The tuner will decode whatever information the antenna receives (analog for NTSC, digital for ATSC). It's just that most ATSC signals (DTV) are on UHF spectrum, as the analog transmission is still coming from broadcasters traditional channel.

Hey Rick, What did AntennaWeb say you could get? My father's house near Oak Grove & Ygnacio pretty much says he can't get any DTV, but I'm sure he'd be interested to find out he actually could from Sacto.