Official New Panny thread: 42PD50, PX50, PX500 - Page 123

Wow, how rich is this? I want to print the webpage out and take it to the BSS where the snooty salesman told me that it was such a high end unit (the px500 line) that even Tweeter had passed on it. (It's in the new Tweeter catalog by the way, although they got the specs wrong - they say it has no speakers and no ATSC tuner ...lol). He graciously offered it to me at MSRP, but would throw in a warranty. Maybe I will take the Tweeter catalog and the Wal-Mart web page printout to show him. Of course he might have a stroke, so maybe I'd better not.

Darren

I posted my problem elsewhere in the forum but was not aware of this thread. Perhaps you might know...
I've just got a 42PD50U, an LG DVD hdmi ready and the monster cable to hook (all suggested as best buys by the sales person at Best Buy). Upon turning the DVD on I get a loading screen but with a pink hue and once the players starts running the screen goes black. I've tried disconnecting an connecting several times, been trough the whole menu on both, tried resetting, etc. Others have posted the same issue on the Forum. Anyone knows what to do? I'm a new memeber.

I believe this another one of those handshake protocol issues. If so, it has to do with what gets powered on first.

I seem to recall earlier in this thread that someone was told by Panasonic that their plasmas are not compatible with two types of DVD players via HDMi. I think it was LG and Samsung. You might try a search.

Darren

I just purchased one of these from CC. I'm having blotchiness/macroblocking in dark scenes and background which is visible from my seating position at 15 ft. It's really obvious if you get within 5 ft. or so. It occurs regardless of source (Sat, OTA, DVD) and both via component and HDMI. At first, I suspected over-compression of the signal as the culprit but it was there even for Lost last night on ABC OTA (720p, only multicasting weather radar). I've adjusted and adjusted (including AVIA and THX optimizer) to no avail. It looks great in well-lit scenes but I'm probably going to return it and wait on the 50 inch Sony SXRD. This is my first plasma so I"m not sure if this is associated with the technology, just with Panasonic, or just with this model but my wife hates it (bad) and prefers the GWIII which I used up to now.

The shadow detail and black levels are certainly better than the GWIII but the macroblocking is just unacceptable to me.

You may want to consider a GeForce card. I was unable to get my 9800 or X800XT to properly display 1366x768. ATI syncs to that resolution but displays 1360 columns (multiple of 8) and repeats the 1360 column 6 times. Fun house mirror.

Unusable for full-screen Video on the PC.

-- Rich

Why? Granted, there's still a price difference between Walmart and (some of) the Internet dealers, but they seem to offer a better return policy than the BB/CC/etc stores (though not equal to Costco's), and they're carrying the current models.

Why is Walmart a "yuk"?

-Chris

If the 42PX50 and 50PX50 drop in price to $2500 and $4000 respectively, that really has to put a lot of pressure on DLPs at 50" and less.

Regarding the HDMI input on the TH-50PX500U:

I was trying to setup a new Denon DVD-1920 last night at my dad's house. It is connected to a 50PX500U via HDMI. This is my first HDMI configuration and...I can't get it to work. There is nothing showing on the display when I select the HDMI input.

The HDMI light on the 1920 lights up so it seems it is communicating with the display. If I unplug either end, the HDMI light goes out. If I turn off the 1920, the input message (HDMI DVD) shows up on the display.

Suggestions? How can I figure out if the problem is the HDMI output from the DVD player or the HDMI input on the display? Have I missed some setup option?

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't macroblocking occur at the signal processing phase? The TV simply displays the processed signal sent to it by the DVD player, satellite receiver, etc. Isn't it those things which are the culprit.

I'm having the same problem but, my BSS guy says walmart isn't selling it even though it's advertised online! There's no way this can be true, right? Talk about false advertising!?

The BSS person you spoke to is full of it. First of all, what would be the point of listing it if they don't sell it? A company as notoriously frugal as Wal-Mart would not waste the time or expense to add an item to the website if they were not going to carry it.

I have only had bad experiences with BSS, starting from the owner down the food chain there. I personally would never buy anything from them. They are run by some folks who used to run Luskin's, if you remember them, so my advice is stay away. I only stopped in the store to actually see the unit, because it is hard to find locally here in Baltimore, although I suspect once the Best Buy in Towson finishes getting their AV section converted to Magnolia they will carry it. They were doing construction and I spotted Def-Tech Pro-100's boxes in the Magnolia area, a high end item thet BB never used to carry.

Darren

Sorry, I am just flying by the seat of my pants. Yes, I have seen the 7UY and the 500U side by side with the same feed. I thought the 7UY looked noticeabley sharper and less noisy. I have no links, although several other folkson the board here seem to make the same conclusion. I'd like to think that it was a matter of calibration or something, hence my asking.

Interesting. Calibration is the only way I could logically explain the additional noise you percieved on the consumer. The consumer models are all shipped with very high sharpness levels that accentuate noise and give the display a rather gritty look. Properly adjusting sharpness should make all the difference. But given, the ability to optimize overscan on the commercial could still help it render a slightly sharper image.

However, regarding several folks reaching the same conclusion, I certainly haven't seen such posts - hence why I surprised by your findings. Very few have even gotten the opportunity to view consumer and commercial side by side since virtually no B&M's carry both. I've seen posts from a few rare owners of both consumer and commercial Pannies and they mentioned no such discrepencies. The commercial units should in theory be capable of a slightly better HD image with their adjustable overscan and color adjustments, but your's is the first report I've seen of this difference being striking so I'd chalk it up to calibration.

Yes, macroblocking is a source issue.

If it's described as "blotchiness" in addition, it could be false contouring, which could be introduced in the scaler.

Thanks, that could be the answer. I am kind of hoping it is the answer. But I was also hoping to hear wether someone could confirm that they do indeed contain the same panel and processing.

As for folks saying they see a difference. I have not kept tally on it, but there are certainly a few folks on here that mentioned they had purchased the 7UY over the consumer sets based on PQ.

When I went to BSS recently, I literally felt like I was in a shark tank. The guy circled me as he spat off specifications and features of the 50px500u as I stood there trying to look at it. Half the stuff he said was BS anyway.... such as "it has 2 HDMI's".... he also said something about the set having a feature where it can sense stationary images, and it will shift them by 1 pixel in order to prevent burn-in. This sounds cool, but I haven't seen it written anywhere. Probably more BS.
THEN, he rudely stormed off after he "graciously" offered to sell it to me for MSRP (plus a "free" extended warranty), and I didn't bite. I can't wait 'til CC or WM finally get this set in stock.

Then why don't I have it with my Sony GWIII?

If it's a "source issue" then I'm not sure what better source I have available other than OTA through the 50U's tuner. It also happens through the LG 3510a OTA tuner I have.

I really *want* to keep this plasma, but it isn't satisfactory at this point.

The macroblocking appears as "fuzziness" (my wife's description) in the background especially noticeable in dark scenes. When you look at it close up, it looks like the macroblocking I've seen through DVI on my LG DVD player. Basically, it's like pixellation in the dark areas that's independent of movement.

It occurs during scaling and deinterlacing. The major known culprit is the Faroudja scaler in Denon DVD players. The plasma has to scale the signal to it's native resolution so could certainly introduce the same effect. I'm not saying I know for sure that's what's happening, but that seems the likely problem to me. I'm just not sure what other explanations are available but I'd certainly be willing to entertain other ideas.

I'm not familiar with the 1920, but my Sat HTB has a switch on the back panel which toggles between component and DVI(HDMI). Check for similar on yours. Also, check to be sure you've enabled HDMI on the Denon's setup menu.

Also, be sure the HDMI input on the display is not set to "skip" in which case it's disabled.

You could also post this question in the DVD player forum.

If what you are seeing is independent of movement, then it is not macroblocking.

What you are describing in the dark areas is some other kind of artifact. Maybe it is false contouring or quantization error. Let's see, what else is there? Difficult to diagnose without seeing it.

I do wish you well on finding a display that is satisfactory.

That is my understanding also. I can say on my 50px50u I don't notice blotching of any kind. I have as a reference point my Pioneer Elite 510 CRT which is very well regarded.

Regarding false contouring, I haven't noted that either. And the grayscale gradients from the Avia disk is quite smooth for a plasma. My only guess to the problem is that the TV is defective.....or we all see things differently. H*ll, some people see rainbows in the new Pannys so I don't doubt anything that anyone sees. Good luck in whatever TV you end up with.

My wife and I recently went to a CC, where they had the 50px50u right next to the latest Pioneer 50", the LG 50px4dr and the LG 50px1d. The Panny and Pioneer both displayed what my wife also called "fuzziness". It was mostly in the background in dark areas, and was definitely independent from movement. It almost looked like you were looking through a thin wall of water. It could be seen even when standing 12-15 feet from the screen.
The LG's did not display this, however, their color and overall picture quality weren't what I'd expect for a $5000 set.
Not sure what the technical reason is, but I'm hoping the 500u wouldn't have the same problem, as that's the set I'm hoping to get.

What was the sharpness settings on the Panny and Pioneer? What was the screen resolution?

Yep, sounds like what I'm seeing.

And macroblocking *is* independent of movement. Otherwise, I don't see how you'd tell it from pixellation. I guess it could be in dark areas only, but what I'm seeing happens with still images and moving images and seems to be more dependent on gamma (black).

My guess is it's not a defective set, as I've seen other scattered reports of this.
I'm not sure if I'm willing to risk going through the hassle of returning it and getting another only to see the same problem again.

What the *(*&&^ I go away for a few days and check back and now Walmart is selling these displays and the price is dropping a grand. I knew I should have stopped reading after I bought mine.

I was at my local CC yesterday and no plasmas looked good - they had a horrendous feed. I don't know what was going on, I didn't stick around long enough to find out if it was a loop, or their D* feed. (I DO NOT need to be hanging around in the plasmas for a while!!.)

Maybe you should check them out another time. Could've been an isolated incident...

Stop reading? Ha. How are you going to find out what else to nitpick?
Or when to agonize over price drops?

Well I think i'm okay with this outcome.... Although at first I seriously felt that this BSS guy was full of BS, after doing a bit of research on my own and contacting panny's and Wally's HQ's, there definitely seems to be a bit more to the story that I think we all know. Not sure what it is, but it's certainly smells a bit fishy and here's why.

I spoke to several Panny Rep's giving them all the same sob story about me not being able to get my "price match" unless I prove that Panny has allowed Wally to sell the px500 line(which is true). I have to say, everyone was very helpful until I mentioned the word "wally"! As soon as the word came out of my mouth, everyone got quiet. Very weird! I got responses like, "They might have them, but lets just say they don't get them from us directly...." or "between you and me, it might be a while before you see them have it again..." or "oh they have them, but that's all I can say about that..." or "I'm not allowed to get into or comment on that.....". So I can definitely see a bit of big corporate america playing a hand in all of this. It was truly strange, the more bizarre responses I got, the more I wanted to dig deeper and find out the truth!

You know, you always hear about big corporate companies, Wally in particular, slashing prices which in turn forces the little boutique shops, who truly cant afford the same discounted prices, do so as well and slowly force them out of business! Look, I'm certainly speculating here, but from what I've gathered, the only stores that really carry this set ARE the little boutique shops, which as many have posted here on this forum, is a bit strange in its self!

So before I start getting any further along into who I REALLY feel is behind all of this , let me just say, BSS actually compromised with me and gave me a 5 year warranty, which they claim is worth close to $700. Normally I would have told him where to go, but after getting a really weird run around from Panny and Wally, I think I'm okay with it. Actually, when I initially bought the set, the sales guy told me they could either give me $500 off MSRP and free shipping or the warranty and I opted to take the former. So now I have all 3! Oh and did I mention I was 3 days over the "30 day price match guarantee"?!

Wow $700 is a LOT for a 5-year warranty!! (it's actually probably 4 years and takes effect after the one-year manufacturers warranty). Panasonic keeps calling me to buy their extended warranty for $600. No thanks.

You can buy a 4-year Repairmaster warranty (which takes effect after the factory warranty expires) for under $300 from forum sponsor TVAuthority.