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Official New Panny thread: 42PD50, PX50, PX500 - Page 3

post #61 of 5649
panasonic cut so many corners on this new set, i wont be suprized if they cut corners on pic quality also, from what i understand the commercial hd and onyx use this subpixel technology and those are 7th gen glass so i dont think its that ground breaking for the pd50u 8th gen if it is truly 8th gen....i am still in shock about the cable card slot not being included, i am wondering if maybe its a misprint or maybe the slot was added after the manual was written, i remember reading something like this happened with the pioneers and the hdmi features were not in the manual. i still cant believe panasonic did this....
post #62 of 5649
Quote:


Originally posted by Macfan424
It probably took their marketing people that long to persuade their manufacturing executives to spend money to fix something that didn't really need to be fixed.

Panasonic's 720p "problem" applies only to STB's that output 720p signals, but not 1080i. Are there any?

As I understand it, most, if not all, external devices produce either output depending upon how they are set, converting one format to the other as necessary. Once inside the TV's circuity, all signals 480, 720 or 1080 have to be scaled to match the display's native resolution, which, on a plasma screen, doesn't exactly match either HDTV standard. If sales brochures are to be believed, it's not uncommon for other sets to convert all signals to 1080 prior to internal processing.

I suppose it could be argued that 720 to 768 involves less conversion than 1080 to 768, but it's doubtful that the difference is visible to the naked eye, especially since Panasonic engineers undoubtedly optimized their circuitry for 1080 to 768 (or 480 for ED) scaling.

Couldn't diagree more. It needed to be fixed.

Watching ABC from an external STB would involve a 720p->1080i->768p conversion instead of a 720p->768p conversion. The latter is simply a matter of uprezzing the image, the former involves interlacing, uprezzing, deinterlacing and downrezzing. Not only that, some of the processing will have to take place in the external STB which (if it is a cable box) may not be very good at it.
post #63 of 5649
Quote:


Originally posted by david8613
i am wondering if maybe its a misprint or maybe the slot was added after the manual was written, i remember reading something like this happened with the pioneers and the hdmi features were not in the manual.

Hmmmm . . . wouldn't be the first time I guess.

Should we start a new rumor about the cable card?
post #64 of 5649
David8613---where did you hear that the current Onyx and commercial versions already have the subpixel control?! If that is true then for some people there is little reason to wait for the new models. In terms of PQ improvement (Rather than things like cable card slot and other conveniences), this subpixel control thing that apparently enhances contrast by 30% is what caught a lot of peoples attention...I thought this was a new gizmo, but you seem to indicate it is already out on some models. More info?
post #65 of 5649
Onyx does have sub-pixel control (you can read about it on the Panasonic website), but I believe the current commercial 7UYs don't.

Sub-pixel control is supposed to enhance perceived resolution, not contrast.
post #66 of 5649
So, if the Onyx has sub-pixel control already, anyone report any perceived improvement in PQ? Glancing through reviews I don't recall many oohs and ahs about it. Indeed, many on this forum I think have commented that they can't see a difference in PQ between the onyx and non-onyx displays (especially the commercial version, which is the same generation glass, I believe). Hmmm, this leaves me wondering if the subpixel control thing is mostly hype.
post #67 of 5649
This is already on the Onyx.

7th Generation Panel
Sub-Pixel Controller
2048 Shades of Gradation
Over 8.58 Billion Colors
Color Purity Optimizer
Motion Pattern Noise Reduction
Super Real Gamma Circuit

I bet the Onyx will get the 8th gen panels and new electronics and processing before the regular lineup too. Is it worth the price increase? You decide.
post #68 of 5649
IMO, Panasonic has just lost a lot of potential sales.

There were a lot of us hoping the 42ED with 8th gen glass and sub-pixel control would make up for their not offering a 37ED. I think we have been let down.

FWIW
post #69 of 5649
Quote:


Originally posted by ADGrant
Couldn't diagree more. It needed to be fixed.

Watching ABC from an external STB would involve a 720p->1080i->768p conversion instead of a 720p->768p conversion. The latter is simply a matter of uprezzing the image, the former involves interlacing, uprezzing, deinterlacing and downrezzing. Not only that, some of the processing will have to take place in the external STB which (if it is a cable box) may not be very good at it.

The only point of my initial comment was to suggest Panasonic may have had a valid reason for their choice. I'm not trying to engage in a heavy debate and they certainly don't need me to defend them. However, before the 50 series they did not seem prone to cutting corners on anything important.

As a purist at heart, I agree in principle with everything you say, I'm just not sure it's as straight forward as that. There is a lot of internal signal processing in these sets and it seems feasible that it may be more efficient to produce a circuit that does it all in in one realm, so the multiple conversions we'd like to avoid may be going on anyway. Some manufacturers' brochures even make a feature out of converting all signals to 1080 prior to processing.

Anyway, page 13 of PD50U manual mentions 720p as part of its STB/DVD capability (as well as 480i which was not listed in the PD25U manual either), then adds this arcane entry: Note: 720p signals will be converted to 1080i format and output to the display. (sic)

The same reference on page 15 of the PD25U manual reads: Note: 1080i signals will be re-formatted to view on your plasma display.

Not that this necessarily means anything, it could even be a misprint or something lost in translation, but...
post #70 of 5649
I wonder about that as well, since the Panny Plasma group told me it included the CableCard. I guess we will have to just wait and see!

Quote:


Originally posted by david8613
panasonic cut so many corners on this new set, i wont be suprized if they cut corners on pic quality also, from what i understand the commercial hd and onyx use this subpixel technology and those are 7th gen glass so i dont think its that ground breaking for the pd50u 8th gen if it is truly 8th gen....i am still in shock about the cable card slot not being included, i am wondering if maybe its a misprint or maybe the slot was added after the manual was written, i remember reading something like this happened with the pioneers and the hdmi features were not in the manual. i still cant believe panasonic did this....
post #71 of 5649
i dont remember were i read this but as far i can remember, i have been researching since last year, the commerical pannys and the onyx have 7th gen glass with sub pixel, virtually the same the only difference is better looking estethics and seperate media box for the onyx, the 25u uses 6th gen glass no sub pixel control i think, and the 50u is suppose to be 8th gen of and course should have subpixel but i am beginning to doubt that very much, maybe its really 61/2 gen...panasonic was on a roll but i think they just stumbled...this stuff now with the 720 issue is starting to stink...why in the world would panasonic take all these steps backwards, its like buying a newer reciever without component inputs, 7.1, component switching, etc etc...were supposed to get more features not less, it reminds of my damn union, you pay more and more dues each year but get less benefits, what the heck is going on?
post #72 of 5649
Quote:


Originally posted by yobob
IMO, Panasonic has just lost a lot of potential sales.

There were a lot of us hoping the 42ED with 8th gen glass and sub-pixel control would make up for their not offering a 37ED. I think we have been let down.

FWIW

IMO, the lost sales are infinitesimal.

But what do I know?

Is this feature really than valuable>
post #73 of 5649
I think some people were hoping that the subpixel control thing would reduce the screen door effect on the 42 ED model, meaning that the viewing distance could be as close as the discontinued 37 ED model. If there is no reduction in the screen door effect, then some people with close viewing situations would have to go for the 37 or 42 HD versions (which are of course more money).
post #74 of 5649
If I recall correctly R. Harkness commented on the Onyx and sub pixel control. He said the picture looked better with it turned OFF.

Sorry Rich if my memory is incorrect.
post #75 of 5649
Quote:


Originally posted by Pedro2
I think some people were hoping that the subpixel control thing would reduce the screen door effect on the 42 ED model, meaning that the viewing distance could be as close as the discontinued 37 ED model. If there is no reduction in the screen door effect, then some people with close viewing situations would have to go for the 37 or 42 HD versions (which are of course more money).

My thoughts exactly.
post #76 of 5649
It seems like with everything they're doing, more than just to save money and offer the models at lower costs, is that they're trying to get people to buy the more expensive models in their lineup, which is a rather sleazy thing to do.
post #77 of 5649
Quote:


Originally posted by rogo
IMO, the lost sales are infinitesimal.

Count me in that infinitesimal number.
post #78 of 5649
Quote:


Originally posted by wassim17
It seems like with everything they're doing, more than just to save money and offer the models at lower costs, is that they're trying to get people to buy the more expensive models in their lineup, which is a rather sleazy thing to do.

I think you are being too hard on them. I think the truth is that most people don't need a cable card slot so why not take it out and let those people buy the TV for less money?
post #79 of 5649
Well, if the glass is not 8th generation, I will be returning mine. If it is 8th generation, then this plasma is a home run for me. I have 30 days from receipt to determine whether or not it is. I will not hesitate returning if its not because I feel Panasonic lead us to believe it is.
post #80 of 5649
Is panasonic even making a 8th generation glass???

IIRC they annouced their 7th gen glass last september with the 7uy's. Why would they start 8th gen so quickly. Am I missing something.
post #81 of 5649
maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was pretty well established that this new set has 7th generation glass, catching up to the commercial and Onyx models already out?
post #82 of 5649
They have been announcing 8th gen glass for their upcoming 50 series panels ever since CES.

But from the posts flying around today, that does NOT include the 50 series 42ED. So it must be reserved for the HD models.
post #83 of 5649
I can see them not wanting to put the CableCard in the Panny if that is what they are in fact doing. I was told by TV Authority that after a ruling by the FCC, any tv over over 30" is required to have a ATSC tuner and CableCard.
If CableCard is not included, that is OK with me. It is an extra charge to have added and there are probably a lot of people who do not need it. Here is an article from CNET on why it may not be useful to people. http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-8900_7-5581176.html

*Once CableCard 2 (or whatever the new version of it is called) comes out, then it would definitely be unacceptable for any company to produce a tv without it.
*One other thing that I still do not understand is how come you can not control the aspect ratio of HD. I presume that Panasonic believes there is no use in changing the quality of a HD feed only to change it and have the internal processors convert the picture to something that is not of true HD. However, as long as burn-in/image retnetion exists; I believe people are going to want to sacrifce a little picture quality to protect what most people consider is now an investment.
post #84 of 5649
I think Panasonic sees the writing on the wall.They'll still sell many great quality HD sets, but they know that LG/Zenith will be the big seller for people who want contrast ratio at a cheap price. Panasonic may make the best EDTV--but their days of selling the most EDTVs are numbered.
post #85 of 5649
Copy:


Well as I said many times...

Unless I'm proven wrong ( I want to see REAL improvements ),
those 8G Models are simply a "Marketing BS" !!!! IMO

What happened to the 7th Generation Models Then ???

Why jump from 6th to 8th Generation ?!?!?

It doesn't make any sense to me !!!

Besides, Panasonic usually releases newer Generation Plasmas in Japan (For obvioulsy reasons). I still can't find ANY press release/info talking about new models coming to the Japanese Market.

So...




.
post #86 of 5649
there is too much confusing information, look at the site below it states that all the new sets have sub pixel control and it shows they all have qam tuners, i thought qam tuners are used with cable cards, corret me if i am wrong...

http://www.tvtrack.com/2005/02/03/panasonic-pdp/
post #87 of 5649
QAM is digital cable, but without cable card you can only tune unencrypted channels (like your digital locals which might be carried by your cable company).
post #88 of 5649
Yep, I agree david8613. Anyone who has been following Panasonic's news releases for the past few months would be lead to believe that the TH-42PD50U has sub pixel control. Maybe thats not 8th generation, but its different than the previous ED generation and thats whats important. Call it improved 7th generation or 8th generation or what ever you like, but its still improved (according to press releases). If this is not the case I will be returning the TH-42PD50U. In fact, it may never get delivered =)

Best regards...
post #89 of 5649
i have comcast cable in bloomfield new jersey and i have digital cable with a box in one room i get more channels in this room, but my other rooms dont have boxes and i get most of channels including hbo, will this qam tuner work for me? how does this work?
post #90 of 5649
The external box is tuning *digital* cable for your first TV. Comcast has more channels available on digital than on their older analog service. Your other TVs are still tuning into the analog signal. When you upgrade to Comcast's digital service, you still also receive the analog feed and it's available to any of your TVs that can tune into it, i.e. most sets built in the past 10 years. The new Panasonics will tune the digital signal without need for the external box, but only those channels that are not scrambled (encrypted). To receive those channels you still need the box or a digital TV that supports CableCard.
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