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Optoma H79 review & screenshots - Page 2

post #31 of 2404
While I really have enjoyed reading this thread and the huge one about the H77, I find it hard to believe that Tom would say that the extra $3K is justified over the H77. Before Tom saw the H79, it seemed as if the H77 was the bees knees and he could not be happpier. Now, at ONLY almost twice the price Tom is recommending the H79? I say "almost twice the price" because I am figuring in the cost of the extra bulb that PP is giving with it's purchase. Don't take what I am saying the wrong way....the whole H77 thread and Tom is what made me purchase the H77 and I am really happy with it. I just don't see any way that anyone would pay an estimated $3K extra for the H79 versus the H77. That extra $3k could easily be spent on other things. As far as current owners wanting to upgrade from a H77 to a H79 that is insane! With what price you would get for your H77, I don't see how anyone could justify that! This does not take into account really smart and lucky people that were able to sell their H77 before the huge price slashing began. (You know who you are!)
Best,
Chris
post #32 of 2404
Chris - some people are always willing to pay premium to be " first on the block ". I can't figure out why anyone would pay $ 60,000 for a car, but they do. That said, if you're like me - you might buy an H79 when they are on close out a year from now, eh? And as far as paying for a Qualia - some will see the picture being worth the difference in price of a new Tayota Tacoma Xtra cab pickup. Others like me ( who need the pick up instead ) won't. To sum up, some see a 5% picture quality increase worth 50% - 100% more. How else to justify the new Marantz, Sharp 12000 or other high priced 1 chippers?

PS - the H77's are selling for less than I bought my H76 - so don't feel alone. So what - I like my setup and projector and plan on using it for several years.
post #33 of 2404
Chris,

I completely understand what you're saying, however it's a pretty common "diminishing returns" quandry that I'll bet most audio/ht enthusiasts encounter on a semi-regular basis.

Though I squirm over making that decision every time, I'm one of those guys that for sometimes a 20-30% improvement it can be worth making an 80-100% monetary jump in the upgrade. That decision can seem like complete madness to someone else, but I find it understandible if you really think the difference makes enough of an impact on your enjoyment factor. And, of course I'll salivate on the next best thing that comes down the pike in 6 months as well. It never ends.

Having seen the H79 at CES & recently at Optoma, I can see why someone would be excited about this projector. Boy is that home equity line beckoning for a projector upgrade!

It will probably take a few months for Optoma & retailers to flush out all the competition on the DC3 pricing once all the other manufacturures get their machines out there (InFocus, BenQ, etc).
post #34 of 2404
Quote:


Originally posted by CCONKLIN1
I find it hard to believe that Tom would say that the extra $3K is justified over the H77. Before Tom saw the H79, it seemed as if the H77 was the bees knees and he could not be happpier. Now, at ONLY almost twice the price Tom is recommending the H79?

And before these at some time it was the HT1000. I'm not sure of your point?

Tom obviously has a great passion and most likely greater disposable income than many of us (me at least ). Kudos to him. Not only for being able to afford constantly upgrading PJ's but for un-selfishly sharing/expressing his hands on experience but also (and very important), sharing his settings for optimizing the particular PJ that he favors at the moment.

Just because he moves onto something different doesn't mean your PJ has just gone into POS status. Hell, I still have the HT1000.


Bill
post #35 of 2404
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by darinp2
Tom,

Do you know if the H79 will take 1280x720@48Hz?

Thanks,
Darin

Darin, They told me what you're trying to do in getting the best 2.3 pulldown with 48Hz but he says now the Ti chip will just convert it back to 60hz. In the next year or two there will be a faster 1chip that will do 72Hz for that purpose and do it better. But there will still be 60Hz material around at the same time, so they're working out the ways to make both work. Soon in a year or two. There are 3chippers now but the future looks good still for the 1chip.

Sheesh I don't know if I'm supposed to even be saying this, what the hay.
post #36 of 2404
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by Mr. Biggles
And before these at some time it was the HT1000. I'm not sure of your point?

Tom obviously has a great passion and most likely greater disposable income than many of us (me at least ). Kudos to him. Not only for being able to afford constantly upgrading PJ's but for un-selfishly sharing/expressing his hands on experience but also (and very important), sharing his settings for optimizing the particular PJ that he favors at the moment.

Just because he moves onto something different doesn't mean your PJ has just gone into POS status. Hell, I still have the HT1000.


Bill

I'm not loaded like many here but I do like a bargin when I can get it. The H77 now sure is one. HT1000, hey I just bought one from and AVSer today and have it right here in front of me. It feels good certainly not a POS.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/ht10002.jpg
post #37 of 2404
Quote:


Originally posted by guitarman
Darin, They told me what you're trying to do in getting the best 2.3 pulldown with 48Hz but he says now the Ti chip will just convert it back to 60hz. In the next year or two there will be a faster 1chip that will do 72Hz for that purpose and do it better. But there will still be 60Hz material around at the same time, so they're working out the ways to make both work. Soon in a year or two. There are 3chippers now but the future looks good still for the 1chip.

Thanks. I'm not sure about the TI chip converting it back to 60Hz since the Sharp 11k/12k will take this and passes the extremely difficult opening of "Shakespeare in Love". In this case the Sharp isn't doing the 3:2 pulldown though. That is done externally and then fed in as 48Hz. Either with a PC or with an iScan HD. Then it is up to me to switch the input to 60Hz for video material.

--Darin
post #38 of 2404
CCONKLIN1

You cannot compare closeout prices to new model prices as representative of quality difference. You can buy the 2005 Ford F150 now, or you can find a dealer that has a 2004 Ford 150 on the lot they need to get rid of. The $10K savings you get is not representative of the quality difference between model years.

New model prices are always high for those that have to be on the bleeding edge, closeout model prices are always low for those on the lagging edge. The real quality price is somewhere in the middle.

This is basic economics supply/demand curve that has nothing to do with quality!

The fact that you have people with H77's selling as fast as they can to get a H79 means there are people on both ends of the curve. Who do you think bought their H77?!
post #39 of 2404
guitarman

There are projectors that resync the chips and colorwheel to do 48Hz without framerate conversion! Sharp, Infocus, maybe PD. 48Hz is not far from 50Hz - so if they do PAL it is only 4% out of tolerance! Shifting down to that last 4% is the problem - you cannot just run at 50Hz.
post #40 of 2404
Thread Starter 
He said something about you can maybe trick the chip into reading the 48Hz but it would still be converting it to 60Hz. The 72Hz will be a great step further for a better result.
post #41 of 2404
Quote:


Originally posted by guitarman
He said something about you can maybe trick the chip into reading the 48Hz but it would still be converting it to 60Hz. The 72Hz will be a great step further for a better result.

I don't think 72Hz would really give a better result for a technology that puts whole frames up and leaves them up like DLPs. For scanning technologies like CRTs 72Hz is better than 48Hz, but I don't see what advantage it would give for film on a DLP. If the Sharp 12k converts to 60Hz I don't see how it could pass the DVE judder test and that opening to "Shakespeare In Love". So, I don't believe it is doing that, unless it is doing it in a very intelligent way to pass those tests. Either way, 48Hz with the 11k/12k does the trick of showing film as it is meant to be shown as far as judder.

--Darin
post #42 of 2404
Quote:


Originally posted by darinp2
Thanks. I'm not sure about the TI chip converting it back to 60Hz since the Sharp 11k/12k will take this and passes the extremely difficult opening of "Shakespeare in Love". In this case the Sharp isn't doing the 3:2 pulldown though. That is done externally and then fed in as 48Hz. Either with a PC or with an iScan HD. Then it is up to me to switch the input to 60Hz for video material.

--Darin

Can't talk for the H79 but the H77 takes 1280x720x48 without any problems from a dvdo HD+. i would be supprised if that was changed for the H79.

Daniel.
post #43 of 2404
danielo
Almost any projector will sync the input up to 48Hz - since it is so close to PAL.

The question is does the DMD/colorwheel sync down to 48Hz. If it does not you cannot pass the judder test without tearing, skipping etc because of the framerate conversion. Look in the HTPC forum there is a good juddertest tool. I like Star Trek Insurrection title and holoship sequences for pan tests, and SeaBiscuit final chapter fade out (watch the dirt pan)

On Infocus if you put your ear on the box - you can actually hear the colorwheel shift gears.
post #44 of 2404
Quote:


Originally posted by krasmuzik
New model prices are always high for those that have to be on the bleeding edge, closeout model prices are always low for those on the lagging edge. The real quality price is somewhere in the middle.

With the improvements that are often added to these projectors from generation to generation I often tell people that the jump in quality favors the newer model, even with the extra cost. Much like PCs, more than like cars. I feel this is the way things worked out from the Panasonic AE300 to AE500. Also from the Sharp 10k to 12k I felt that the jump in quality more than justified the price difference at introduction in general. So far I'm not hearing enough difference between the H77 and H79 for me to feel that the pendulum of best buy for most people is on the newer model (H79) side. It might be there, but this is one case where I think the current price of the H77 will easily justify a purchase of that one over the new one to many people. However, I haven't seen what actual prices people will be able to get H79s for.

--Darin
post #45 of 2404
The current special deals on H77's are kind of unprecedented anyway - and the H79 isn't really even out in quantity. It'll probably be a month before prices settle down with the newer models coming out. Sure is fun watching all this though. Think I'll go home and watch Alias in HD on my old POS HT1000, or my H76. I'll have to flip a coin............it looks excellent either way - I can't lose!
post #46 of 2404
Quote:


Originally posted by darinp2
So far I'm not hearing enough difference between the H77 and H79 for me to feel that the pendulum of best buy for most people is on the newer model (H79) side.
--Darin

From what I have picked up, going from a HD2+ to a HD2+Darkchip3 is not going to be the same as when HD2 went to HD2+. Seems to be a baby step as we wait for 1080p from TI. Sure it is better and I might purchase a H79 if I was in the market, but we are still talking about a 720p projector.

My guess is that they will lower the MSRP significantly within the next six months as they come out with the H100? for CEDIA (or whatever it will be called)... SJ
post #47 of 2404
Quote:


Originally posted by SJHT
My guess is that they will lower the MSRP significantly within the next six months as they come out with the H100? for CEDIA (or whatever it will be called)... SJ

HWP100 for Wobble Pretend 1080?
post #48 of 2404
Quote:


Do you mean color primary/secondary accuracy rather than video decoding accuracy? I knew SpyderTV consumer version has the colorbars measurements - are they adding them to ColorFacts?

No, I mean accuracy of the color decoder as measured with an Avia test pattern, which assumed a ColorFacts user would have.

Thanks for the gamma curve, CIE primaries chart, and RGB histogram.

On/Off Contrast????????
Lumen output?????????
post #49 of 2404
TomHuffman

Gotcha - you mean the AVIA red/green/blue pushscale screen! The Eye-One guitarman is using is not trustworthy for brightness/contrast numbers - and he is still trying to figure out how to point the TrichoMat close enough to get honest repeatable numbers!
post #50 of 2404
Quote:


Originally posted by krasmuzik
danielo
Almost any projector will sync the input up to 48Hz - since it is so close to PAL.

The question is does the DMD/colorwheel sync down to 48Hz. If it does not you cannot pass the judder test without tearing, skipping etc because of the framerate conversion. Look in the HTPC forum there is a good juddertest tool. I like Star Trek Insurrection title and holoship sequences for pan tests, and SeaBiscuit final chapter fade out (watch the dirt pan)

On Infocus if you put your ear on the box - you can actually hear the colorwheel shift gears.

Point taken, im guessing the 'moving bar' inside the dvd hd+ scaler is also a good test ? I think ive checked that but i will redo it tonight to make sure its running smooth. Ill also get that tool and try that so i can confirm it. Kinda suprisized nobody has done this sofar.

Daniel.
post #51 of 2404
Tom: ? Did optoma lower the output of the bright blue led in the power switch,?
post #52 of 2404
The only numbers I've seen comes from norwegian ProjectionDesign. They measured about 6-9% increase in light output from HD2+ to DC3.

What models have increased lumen spec? I've seen specs on H79, SP7210, PD AMO MkIII, Marantz VP12S4 and Yamaha DPX-1200 and those are the same as their predecessor's specs.

Quote:


Originally posted by danielo
My main question is darkchip3 should have more light output by alot, what happend to that . Did they tune it back to the same 900 ansi or is the ansi number more 'real' this time or did they trade it for more bulblife by running it a lower voltage ?

All other dc3's seem to result in more lightputput sofar.

Daniel.
post #53 of 2404
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by krasmuzik
TomHuffman

Gotcha - you mean the AVIA red/green/blue pushscale screen! The Eye-One guitarman is using is not trustworthy for brightness/contrast numbers - and he is still trying to figure out how to point the TrichoMat close enough to get honest repeatable numbers!

I should receive the Extech light meter I ordered today I hope. Specs say it's accurate -3% +3% plus it can read down to .1 lux.

I aimed the Tri-chromat using Glenn's tip of shadow watching. Small tube on the meter eye aiming to delete all shadows. Plus you see the lumins readings get the highest. Which was quiet high by the way up near 35 and the program was clicking triple time. Tuning proceedure went real fast with that much light power. It flew thru the grayscale run.
post #54 of 2404
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Originally posted by drtunes
Tom: ? Did optoma lower the output of the bright blue led in the power switch,?

The blue led is the same. It's best use is when you first turn on the PJ, you know it's going on.
post #55 of 2404
Quote:


Originally posted by guitarman

I aimed the Tri-chromat using Glenn's tip of shadow watching. Small tube on the meter eye aiming to delete all shadows.

Can you elaborate on Glens tip? I have never had a problem aiming my Tri-chromat.

Also, where are you placing the meter? Close to the screen facing the projector, close to the screen facing the screen, or close to the projector facing the projector?

Brad
post #56 of 2404
Hi Tom,

The Gamma curve looks the same as one I had on the H77, so the firmware must be very similar.

Do you have a primaries/secondaries triangle CIE for us? I found my RGB contrast setings would clip above R0 G4 and B9. An FL-Day would help there I think, though I ended up with a different filter set, but as my CF is going towards green, I need to sort that out before I can get some more accurate results now. I'm going to try an FL-Day with skylight to see what that looks like visualy.

Kras,

How do you adjust the mid reds to reduce the gamma hump?

Thanks.

Gary.
post #57 of 2404
danielo

moving bars are video in AVIA - you need film. AVIA PRO might have a proper test pattern for judder test - need to dig deep and see.

Dunno what DVDO has for testing!
post #58 of 2404
The iScan HD/HD+ has a test pattern with a vertical white bar that moves back and forth at a moderate speed on a black background. I believe it's even labeled "judder test" or something similar.
post #59 of 2404
Gary

If you do have a real hump in the mids - then you need individual RGB gamma curve adjustments. In guitarmans case it just looks like a hump because he drained red at 100IRE by adjusting at 80IRE. Some nice Cyan cloud highlites when you do that!
post #60 of 2404
Hi Kras,

The hump is very similar to the one in Toms pic. It's possible that red is low because my sensor is pushing green, but it shows it as flat on the greyscale so in theory should show the gamma as being ok shouldn't it?

I maxed the RGB contrasts to crush, then brought them back, and red shouldn't be deficient in relation the green and blue with the filter I'm using as I used CF to get things to D65 (well, CF thinks it's D65 but it's a little toward green when you look at it)

Cheers.

Gary.
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