OT: High End Watches - Page 16  

Then, here is another take. It is ironic that you are accusing all your clients of being judgemental snobs, and in the same breath you judge them by a different "snobmeter". Yes, many if not all of your clients may be evaluating you, but why would they not. By your own admission they are paying your office $6K a day for your services, you better believe they want to gauge your value. However, one of the few ways available to the "layman" to judge another's value is by his or her success, and in our society success is frequently measured by the variables you suggested. Although it may be true that some of your clients are gauging you to ensure you are indeed "one of them", there are sure to be others that determining if you are worth the $6K a day your office is charging.

Cheers,
Raul

Raul,

Thanks for your take on the subject. Sorry if my statement suggested that ALL clients are that way. Clearly they are not.

And my statement that you quote was meant to suggest that ultimately those who judge my "rolex" are judging a piece that really does not have true value in the world of high value watches. So those who are judging are even MORE superficial. The label alone means the most to them.

Good comments!

Rolex is sort of a different thing here relative to other luxury watches (think Bose of the high end)...It is a flashy watch with large, large marketing all over the world.. The Oyster Perpetual is a good movement (but obviously there are far better movements out there). I bought my gold/SS submariner about 10 years ago and it has served me well. Not a hiccup in 10 years. I paid under $5k for it back then and feel it has been a good value. However, nowadays, everyone seems to have one and consequently though I like the watch, I am considering looking for somerthing else. A lot of what I dislike about the Rolex is what I am reading here...that is is more a status piece a fine watch. I bought a Cartier Tank a couple years ago to get a change and it is a beautiful watch for 1/3 the price...but it is not good at keeping time (worse than my Rolex), so my wife now wears it and loves it. I have to say that Rolex is more of a status symbol than a fine watch in my opinion. They are like the Bose of the luxury watch crowd. The gold Rolex though much more expensive is just plain too showy. You know it is a Rolex before you get to with 20 feet of it. I think that watch scxreams, ' Look at me!'. I can't imagine wearing one around my patients, many who struggle to pay their bills. That said, after a buddy of mine got into fine watches, I can see the allure: quality, value, understated sophistication and unless someone who stares at your wrist is in the know about watches, the vast majority would never guess you paid $30K for a watch with a leather or crocodile band. I really like the Blancpain & Patek Phillipe watches as they are gorgeous, understated and excellent timepieces. As much as I like my Rolex, I think with the company's commitment to overexposure, mine will be gone in favor of a better quality, less showy watch.

Heheee...this thread goes on...

Good points there. I'm not into status symbols. Period. When I see people who are -- the kind who flash bling and make it a point to point out their bucks -- I get turned off, so it's really pointless whether the watch is real or fake. I work with rich people in my job -- people who own multimillion-dollar homes in Pacific Heights. I like the ones who are down to earth and don't let money or status symbols get to their heads. Actually, one of these rich women told me where to get fake pearls in Hong Kong. I laughed and thought, "That's the spirit!"

The other school of wealth says, "Flaunt it if you've got it." Well, I try not to judge these people too harshly, but I just don't see the point of throwing your wealth around since we all $h!t from the same place. :D :D :D

How would they be able to tell the difference? Is replicastreet any different than other replica watch sites, in terms of quality or other aspects? By the way, I like the look of a Rolex watch but I can't afford. I guess according to Mr. Organized it would be my fault for being poor. Big deal, get over it... I found that knock-off watches are great because I can have it, even if its not real, without donating my kidney for it. A $20k purse because of its quality is complete and utter BS... it is status. A $8k watch because of quality and craftsmanship is also complete and utter BS. You could reasonably manufacture such watches for cheaper than $4k. The real reason is they don't choose to because, they want to elevate status... I am not buying it for status, but for its looks... I bought "one" real watch before but I can think of money well spent in other areas. I am happy with one and you are happy with yours, that should be enough. The only reason knock off artists stay in business is that people charge too much for things... period!

My point was that a lot of these sites take your money and you don't ever see product.

Caveat Emptor!

You say half empty, I say half full.

Knock off artists stay in business because there are folks out there who want status, but either can't or won't pay the price of entry.

I suppose you didn' tell our wife that the diamond industry is a monopoly and they charge too much. So be happy with this 3 carat CZ on your ring finger with the knock off Tiffany setting.

I tried that once. It didn't go well, and I wouldn't recommend it as a successful strategy, especially when the savings will go to some toy. :eek:

I am curious of the choice of wording with respect to "our wife". Maybe the forum is a little more open than I appreciated.
:D

Freudian slip?:D

In my opinion, buying knockoffs of trademarked watches is theft of intellectual property.

Buying a knockoff watch is the same as buying a pirate version of Windows XP for $10 and feeling good about it.

Stealing form Bill Gates is stealing from Franck Muller is stealing from Joe Blow.

I got no time for moral relativists.

Very interesting this replica watch discussion has turned to "moral relativism" (a philosophy term that is poorly used in many arguments) which basically is the position that moral propositions do not reflect absolute or universal truths. That there is no single standard to assess an ethical proposition's truth and that ethical judgements emerge from social customs.

Seems to me that our social customs in this country clearly define most of our moral judgements (eating dogs, spitting, chewing gum, holding hands in publc, yes even buying knockoffs). With respect to the above examples there is no universal moral truth and you will find that in other cultures some of the examples are morally accepted and some are not and can get you prison time.

Funny anecdote...every year the Utah Jazz front office gets a small number of unsolicited personal checks in the mail from fans. These checks are accompanied by notes that state that the fan was at a game, noticed open seats in better sections, and moved to those open seats for a better view. The check is to cover the difference in ticket price because their own Mormon beliefs tell them this is stealing if they do not pay (is it?). I am going to go way out on a limb here and suggest that most people here would move to a lower level seat if you absolutely knew it was open. Is that okay? Would you send extra money? Sounds like moral relativism to me. And let me even suggest that what one does in their own bedroom with their spouse may be and is immoral to someone else. The fact that you are even doing something in your own bedroom may be immoral to someone! Who's morals are correct? I would wager that you say yours.

But as a book once said "He who is without sin..." well you know. Sounds like some stones have been thrown here.

But Wojtek if you know of some universal moral compass please share it.

Just some food for thought...not meant to aggitate or demean. Like I said before, this is an interesting thread with good people.

I like my real Swiss watches from Zurich...but I do like my "knockoff" Rolex. :)

I like my Gold rack lever pair case chain drive fusee watch from the 1700s. Not as accurate as a new one but it is cool to look at, and quite unique :)

Absolutely wonderfully stated

Coolstrategist - no universal moral compass from me. Perhaps my statement was a bit high-falutin.

I do feel strongly about theft of intellectual property, though. People work hard to design a Franck Muller or a Rolex, and they are entitled to trademark protection. Apologists will argue that folks who buy a knockoff Franck Muller or a Rolex would never buy a real thing, so no harm, no foul. Other apologists will argue that maybe when someone will buy a knockoff, they will like it so much that they will buy a real thing next.

Who cares?

Trademark and copyright laws have been upheld by many courts everywhere, and counterfeit goods coming out of China and other countries is a big friggin' deal.

So that was basically my main point, not some universal morality.

Also wonderfully stated.

Strong points on both sides

This reminds me of one of those good old fashion civil grad school debates that would go on for hours into the early morning. Nice to have an educated discussion with thought out positions.

And it looks like Oneobgyn has our scorecard! :)

I believe it is a monopoly (based on two documentaries I've seen), and yes, diamond prices are too high. The only reason women want a big diamond is to show off to others or make others envious because, practically speaking, wearing an engagement ring is not practical -- it takes getting used to, and one does have to be careful about bumps, chipping, dents, and scratches. A protruding setting also snags on hair, clothing, etc.

I don't really care for size. :p :p :p

P.S. Morality shouldn't even enter the picture here. We're talking about flippin' material goods, not war, murder, and general depravity. People who have no argument left resort to riding the moral high horse over everyone else's heads. The rest of us? Tomorrow morning we wake up to fresh cup of karma.

You know I seem to recall a number of movies made about shallow business people like this. Talk about someone headed for a fall of truly Shakespearean proportions.

Maybe, but dying your hair, though it may be in bad taste sometimes, isn't a crime.

It's amazing to me to have to explain this but here goes again: Purchasing and viewing licensed art prints, is not the same as wearing a fake Rolex. There is no crime. These reproductions are licensed -- by Foxfyre's own admission. Or, more likely, public domain art in the case of Van Gogh works, which Foxfyre apparently does not realize.

Well, no one here has equated wearing a fake watch to rape or murder. I must ask, where's your common sense?

Even so, you are quite naive if you don't understand that the distribution of mass produced fake goods is controlled by organized crime where, I assure you, heinous crimes are routine. That's the business you are supporting with your purchases, and inexplicably defending here.

Wise up.

Maybe, but dying your hair, though it may be in bad taste sometimes, isn't a crime.

It's amazing to me to have to explain this but here goes again: Purchasing and viewing licensed art prints, is not the same as wearing a fake Rolex. There is no crime. These reproductions are licensed -- by Foxfyre's own admission. Or, more likely, public domain art in the case of Van Gogh works, which Foxfyre apparently does not realize.

Well, no one here has equated wearing a fake watch to rape or murder. I must ask, where's your common sense?

Even so, you are quite naive if you don't understand that the distribution of mass produced fake goods is controlled by organized crime where, I assure you, heinous crimes are routine. That's the business you are supporting with your purchases, and inexplicably defending here.

Wise up.

I whole heartedly agree and take it one step further... people lifting, copying, and distributing copyrighted / IP works such as music, movies, and software. We have turned into a culture where people feel that things should be cheap and free. When they find out they aren't (or knowing they aren't), people find some incredibly amazing ways of justifying the thievery. My favorite one is "well, I wouldn't have bought it anyways so they aren't losing any money on me by just downloading that MP3". Any way you cut it, all of these things are illegal activities and have little remorse for people who get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Bull$hi7, Mr. PF. I'm not naïve, so for your "wise up" comment, here's one in kind: Get off your high horse. It's amazing to me to have to explain this but here goes again. Certain morally arrogant pricks in this thread have argued all along that authenticity is key and that anything less is a crime, so don't speak to me about the issues. Talk to those self-righteous snoots who did equate being and buying fake to a crime of morality. By the way, Van Gogh's body of work is not public domain.

And who said I bought fake watches? I never said I did, so obviously you pull stuff out of your ass to vilify me in a public forum. I don't own any fake jewelry.

I'll start worrying night and day about replica watches when cancer is cured.

Folks

we have had 16 pages of good discussion on this OT subject:

but the flaming and personal attacks are not acceptable

Mark

I agree

Who woul d have known when KeithR started this thread that it would become the MOST posted to (470) and viewed (over 15,000) thread on this part of the Forum. It is amazing to me what makes the blood boil of we hobbyists.

Yes, but perhaps some combovers should be.

I frequent some high-end watch forums and nothing seems to piss off watch lovers than finding out that someone bought a watch made of the same materials, has the same movement, but was only 1/10th of the price.
I also frequent some fake watch forums which pride themselves and really strive to drive off scammers from ebay.

I've been through a pair of stainless subs, an omega seamaster, and a breitling intruder (current). All things considered, the subs were my fav. Great weight and bulk... looks awesome. Timeless. The Omega was second choice... the face it just too cool. And the breitling is the third. Something about the french... :-) It just seems diminuitive compared to the others.

After reading this thread I checked out the replica watch site www.abay-usa.com and, when checking out via PayPal, I got the message "PayPal recipient cannot receive money at this time". That sure doesn't look like a good sign. Maybe the Rolex police are wise to these guys.

MT

Have you checked out the latest Breitlings? They make the sub seem diminuitve. I have a Stainless Sub, 2 tone GMT and a Daytona. I also have a Omega Seamaster chronograph, Paneri GMT and Submersible.
Plus I have the following Breitlings:
Navitimer Heritage on Pilot braclet
Navitimer World on Croc strap
Super Ocean on Rubber
B1 all gold
Emergency titanium

Well, I like Breguet, I like Cartier, and I am not pissed off.

It is just as likely that paypal cut them off for knocking off the ebay brand, since ebay owns paypal.

I don't think I could start a cola company named Popsi Cola with red, white and blue colors and get away with it.

No. What happened with abay is that someone complained to paypal after not receiving a watch for a prolonged period.
Paul at abay is a stand-up guy and had a "Crazy Sale" on Panerai replicas in which he had so many orders that he couldn't fill them all. To compound the problem, he was away on business for 3 weeks(that's what he says) and couldn't answer emails. Because of that, some people got anxious(rightly so btw) because of a lack of communication by abay and complained to paypal.
It wasn't because his shop is named "abay". Anyways, Paul(abay) has always delivered for me. Some people have had watches grabbed by customs and he ships replacements for free.
And no, I'm not his business partner or anything like that.

Those brands(esp. Breguet) aren't really that popular to replicate. Mostly Rolex, Panerai, Breitling, and Omega.