or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › 8300HD and External SATA - It Works!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! - Page 146

post #4351 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

After reading numerous recent pages in this thread, it seems to me that using the SA 8300HD to an external harddrive is possible but it only works for channels such as NBC or ABC or CBS. It sounds that if you try copying movies from HBO, Showtime or Starz that it will not work. This is the main reason I want to get the DVR function enabled from Comcast on my 8300HD today but if I can't copy HD movies from premium channels to my PC, then it is not worth the time. Is this what I am understanding here?


Dont know where you heard that but its utterly untrue. I have no problem recording anything I want with my add on 500gb drive!!!!!!!
post #4352 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

Dont know where you heard that but its utterly untrue. I have no problem recording anything I want with my add on 500gb drive!!!!!!!

Correct, but lets say that you later get rid of your Comcast or whatever DVR box and their entire service all together. Would you be able to play those movies from your 500GB harddrive? Same question for right now, are you able to hook that drive to your PC and watch movies on there?
post #4353 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

Correct, but lets say that you later get rid of your Comcast or whatever DVR box and their entire service all together. Would you be able to play those movies from your 500GB harddrive? Same question for right now, are you able to hook that drive to your PC and watch movies on there?

No, and No. The external HD is intrinsically linked to the individual DVR STB. It will not cross units within the same brand(8300 to another 8300 box), cross brands(8300 to a Comcast box), nor work with a PC.
post #4354 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by redjr View Post

No, and No. The external HD is intrinsically linked to the individual DVR STB. It will not cross units within the same brand(8300 to another 8300 box), cross brands(8300 to a Comcast box), nor work with a PC.

Just to expand on this: in the United States, the 8300HD DVR is the property of the cable company that provided it, so if you discontinue the DVR service you are no longer paying for it and therefore should no longer have the right to use it.

You are raising some interesting points though. It is not normal for cable companies to provide 8300HDs as just set-top box. But I've heard of it before. In most locations these HD DVRs are in short supply and the regular HD STBs (typically the SA3250HD) are more plentiful. I know that in Buffalo last year that Adelphia was supplying 8300s for everyone - but I suspected that was some sort of "scheme" that Adelphia had to inflate the cost of the infrastructure before Time Warner took it over.
post #4355 of 8998
subwoofer - You're missing the point/purpose of expanding DVR storage space.
post #4356 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

subwoofer - You're missing the point/purpose of expanding DVR storage space.

I guess so. I just hate the fact that I have to pay a monthly fee to use the DVR. I can build my own system and use open source code to manage it but I believe that I still can't get HD material using that method. But with this way I believe you can only record over the air HD material where I want to capture HBO or Starz. So the only way to record these is to use the cable box that the provider gives you. But haven't there been advances with HDMI capture cards for PCs?

update: Here is a card with HDMI ports http://w.engadgethd.com/2007/01/13/b...irst-hdmi-ana/

But in order to save or copy HBO-HD, wouldn't you be able to capture the video with this?
post #4357 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzzin View Post

Yeah, I guess I can do some pointless recording just to fill my drive up. Why the sudden confidence in these SV35 drives though? And what "hype" are you referring to regarding that drive? They are practically unheard of around here and they are not designed for set top box DVRs. The recommendation of the SV35 in that review was baseless. I would feel safer going with something that has at least some sort of following (which is why I was eager to get a Maxtor Quickview before I learned of the DB35). But if you feel confident in that drive, it's your money and I guess you could always try it out. As far as my drive goes, I guess the quickest way to fill it up would be to just record a lot of pointless stuff and save it. I will do my best to reach 90% soon.

I didn't say I had "sudden confidence" in these drives--I have great "interest." I do respect the information I have been given, as well as the source. That was not a "review" in the strictest sense of the word. It was an opinion rendered by someone who has real-world experience with Seagate drives and subjects them to far greater intensive applications than we do with our external drives.

If I remember correctly, I was the one who told you about the DB35 drives, and at the time, no one here had used one--you were going to be the "pioneer." But in order to make an informed judgment about the DB35 and its suitability for use with the 8300HD, it will be necessary to push it to its capacity to see when, or if, it quits performing flawlessly. I will do that with the SV35--its "claim to fame" is that it is designed to record "multiple data streams simultaneously," and in a 24/7 environment. It makes no representations relative to audio, so that will be another test for it under our self-designed "stress test." (And I believe that "audio" was the other "data" referred to by my source, although I cannot be positive about that.)

I agree that there has been no mention of the SV35 in this thread--but there also was no mention of the DB35 before I brought it up. As I said before, I am always looking for a better mousetrap, and I think the SV35 is a relatively new series--the first mention I have seen of it was in November 2006--but I could be mistaken, and it wouldn't be the first time. I simply want what everyone else here wants--the largest capacity, most reliable, and glitch-free external SATA drive for recording HD content from the 8300HD. You mentioned the TiVo S3 with regard to the DB35 drives, but you have to remember that TiVo is a completely different beast with completely different software! We are "crippled" by our SARA software, and who knows what is going to happen with Navigator. If you recall from the quote I posted, the comment was made that the DB35 has features that are limited by the software driving it. In addition to my two 8300HD DVRs, I have four TiVos, and I can assure you that the software is much more sophisticated than SARA. Therefore, I would suspect that the TiVo software is capable of taking advantage of the DB35 features that SARA cannot. That, of course, is mere speculation on my part. I am neither a programmer nor an engineer, and I rely on their observations and opinions to draw logical conclusions. I am told that the DB35 was not designed for 24/7 operation, whereas the SV35 was. I have no reason to doubt that statement, since the person who made it consults with the Seagate engineers and should be in a position to know. But I also can state, from my own experience and observation, that my 300GB 7200.8 Seagate SATA drives have operated in a 24/7 environment for over a year and with no problems. They will fail at some point, and probably before the 5-year warranty has expired, but so far, so good. Of course, I have no idea how that will compare with the longevity of the DB35 and the SV35 drives.

My 400GB 7200.10 Seagate SATA drive failed immediately, just as you pointed out, and from the experience of others here, we know to avoid the 7200.9 and 7200.10 series of Seagate drives. Your DB35 drive is from the 7200.3 series, and the SV35s are based on the 7200.1 and 7200.2 series. Initial success is important, yes, but in order to say that it is a complete success, you have to fill the drive to capacity, and no one using SARA has filled a 500GB drive and reported its behavior at that point. That's what I want us to do--you fill the DB35, and I will fill the SV35, and then we will see if either of them does what it has been "designed" to do. It's not a competition--it is an experiment and evaluation of two different drives for the express purpose of identifying which, if either, of them is best suited for use as a 500GB external drive with the 8300HD. Hopefully, it will benefit everyone with SARA software.

Scarlett
post #4358 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

I guess so. I just hate the fact that I have to pay a monthly fee to use the DVR. I can build my own system and use open source code to manage it but I believe that I still can't get HD material using that method. But with this way I believe you can only record over the air HD material where I want to capture HBO or Starz. So the only way to record these is to use the cable box that the provider gives you. But haven't there been advances with HDMI capture cards for PCs?

We haven't begun to see the DRM issues when HDMI video cards hit the scene. You can be sure that HDCP will be enforced and Windows Vista will support the content providers and NOT the content recorders(you and me).

DVRs are really a no nonsense approach to quickly and accurately(for the most part) recording cable content - whether HD, or SD. Any HTCP recording capability not withstanding, DVRs are simple to use for kids and family with the press of 2 buttons. Nothing could be simpler.
post #4359 of 8998
^I'm use Linux or another OS besides Windows will have a work around I guess. I just don't like the fact that I have to pay a monthly fee to record shows or movies even if I don't use it. Sure it is easy and compact but VHS tapes weren't that bad and you didn't have to pay a fee to copy something on them. Its just too much big brother for me and I'm hoping someone knows how to get around it in a legal way. Please PM me if you know.
post #4360 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

I guess so. I just hate the fact that I have to pay a monthly fee to use the DVR. I can build my own system and use open source code to manage it but I believe that I still can't get HD material using that method. But with this way I believe you can only record over the air HD material where I want to capture HBO or Starz. So the only way to record these is to use the cable box that the provider gives you. But haven't there been advances with HDMI capture cards for PCs?

update: Here is a card with HDMI ports http://w.engadgethd.com/2007/01/13/b...irst-hdmi-ana/

But in order to save or copy HBO-HD, wouldn't you be able to capture the video with this?

"Capture" refers to transferring SD/HD video from a digital camera, not a cable or SAT STB. Additionally, a device that outputs protected content via HDMI also has DRM, in this case HDCP. No HDCP handshake, no HDMI signal for you.

IMO, ~$8/mo is a puny sum to pay to record and play hi-def content.
post #4361 of 8998
^True. But its just lame that you never actually own the content and if you switch providers or the area, you can't take it with you or view it on your PC whenever you wish.

I know its only $10 a month for the Comcast DVR, but I just hate giving that company or any other company more money for a product that should be out of their hands.
post #4362 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

^True. But its just lame that you never actually own the content and if you switch providers or the area, you can't take it with you or view it on your PC whenever you wish.

I know its only $10 a month for the Comcast DVR, but I just hate giving that company or any other company more money for a product that should be out of their hands.

It is what it is. The only reason we can record and time-shift - near "archive" even - hi-def programming is because of the unbreakable encryption and the restrictions placed on what we can do with it. You can buy BD/HD-DVD discs if you want "ownership" and even then there are restrictions.
post #4363 of 8998
I don't know how you figure you own it just because you subscribe to cable/satellite. Your subscription gives you the right to view it and your DVR agreement gives you the right to time-shift it, not record for posterity instead of buying the DVD, etc. While it's somewhat true that your could "own" it with a VCR in the past, that is really only because they never figured out a cost-effective way to defeat recording and the VCR actually helped build their subscriber base. Now that cable/satellite is part of the landscape and they know how to defeat copying, at least for the majority of subs, content owners are able to retain more control over their product, it's as simple as that. If you want to own it, you'll just have to buy into yet another format, HD DVDs.
post #4364 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

^True. But its just lame that you never actually own the content and if you switch providers or the area, you can't take it with you or view it on your PC whenever you wish.

You are only licensed to view the content, not own it. Even if you buy the DVD, you are buying the license to view it. You are not legally allowed to copy or use the content anyway you want. If you want to take it with you, go buy the license agreement on a DVD so that you can view it when you want. If you can't buy it on DVD, buy a movie theater and license the movie from the studio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

I know its only $10 a month for the Comcast DVR, but I just hate giving that company or any other company more money for a product that should be out of their hands.

If it was not in their hands, you would not be able to view it at all. If not for cable, sat and other providers, your only outlet for movie content would be movie theaters and DVD's.

vegggas
post #4365 of 8998
Wow, 3 quick posts at the same time, basically saying the same thing...
Great minds think alike
vegggas
post #4366 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

...

IMO, ~$8/mo is a puny sum to pay to record and play hi-def content.

I agree. It's a very reasonable fee to me too.

One other note... Just because you own a DVD, or HD/BD, does not give you the right to have a party at your home and charge everyone $10 to watch the movie in your spanky new HT. For profit is prohibited as well. Of course, we all know that...
post #4367 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegggas View Post

Wow, 3 quick posts at the same time, basically saying the same thing...
Great minds think alike
vegggas

Even a broken clock is right twice a day....

...thanks for the posts everyone but I guess I just don't like Big Brother looking over what I am doing all the time and its not the $10 a month that matters, it just the principle of it. It could be a penny a day and I still don't like the fact that they can charge you for something that was basically free when we had VHS. Its a dangerous path to go down when you keep letting the RIAA or MPAA or other organizations control too much. Just my two cents...
post #4368 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

Even a broken clock is right twice a day....

...thanks for the posts everyone but I guess I just don't like Big Brother looking over what I am doing all the time and its not the $10 a month that matters, it just the principle of it. It could be a penny a day and I still don't like the fact that they can charge you for something that was basically free when we had VHS. Its a dangerous path to go down when you keep letting the RIAA or MPAA or other organizations control too much. Just my two cents...

That hasn't changed. You can still copy anything for "Free" to VHS. You are asking for premium features that come at a premium price.

vegggas
post #4369 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by subwoofer View Post

Even a broken clock is right twice a day....

...thanks for the posts everyone but I guess I just don't like Big Brother looking over what I am doing all the time and its not the $10 a month that matters, it just the principle of it. It could be a penny a day and I still don't like the fact that they can charge you for something that was basically free when we had VHS. Its a dangerous path to go down when you keep letting the RIAA or MPAA or other organizations control too much. Just my two cents...

It's a contractual relationship that requires two willing parties. If you are unwilling, simply do not enter into the contract. You'll get neither disagreement nor sympathy here when you complain about Big Brother. It's old news that's not going to change.
post #4370 of 8998
subwhoofer,

The problem is that it's their content and they have every right to control it's use. Like vegggas said, it's either that or we go back to movie theaters or wait for it to come on the national networks with all the cuts and commercials.

FWIW, that's the same argument I and others use when we discuss the Sinclair deal making cableco's pay for local content. However, the fact that it's free OTA and that you could record with a VCR doesn't seem to count for anything. You can still record with a VCR, just not HD, so they really haven't taken anything away.

BTW. Did you know that you can't even have a "Superbowl" Weekend on the radio without paying the NFL a fee to use the term "Superbowl"? We had a "Super-what-you-eat-cereal-in" Weekend here on our local Oldies station. We sure showed them!
post #4371 of 8998
1) Has anyone tried to clone their external Hard Drive (via Norton Ghost or Acronis True Image) that handle multiple formats and O/S structure to see if it works?

If #1 is successful, I wonder if

2) Could you clone the external Hard Drive to increase size, such as moving a 300GB External Drive that is mated to the SA8300 to a 500GB External Drive so the material would still be intact with the same unit - but give you more room for additional storage?

It seems that it should be possible in theory - I am just curious if anyone has tried it?

I've have a 500GB External HD and would try it in the future when the 750GB hard drives are common - but curious if anyone has experimented with it now?
post #4372 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

1) Has anyone tried to clone their external Hard Drive (via Norton Ghost or Acronis True Image) that handle multiple formats and O/S structure to see if it works?

If #1 is successful, I wonder if

2) Could you clone the external Hard Drive to increase size, such as moving a 300GB External Drive that is mated to the SA8300 to a 500GB External Drive so the material would still be intact with the same unit - but give you more room for additional storage?

It seems that it should be possible in theory - I am just curious if anyone has tried it?

I've have a 500GB External HD and would try it in the future when the 750GB hard drives are common - but curious if anyone has experimented with it now?

I'm pretty sure that this has been covered quite a few times. A drive formatted by the DVR will look unformatted to a PC.
post #4373 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

Did you know that you can't even have a "Superbowl" Weekend on the radio without paying the NFL a fee to use the term "Superbowl"? We had a "Super-what-you-eat-cereal-in" Weekend here on our local Oldies station. We sure showed them!

Just wait, I'm sure one day soon, someone will get a patent for air past the patent bureau and you'll be getting a notice of fees you have to pay to license it's use!

Besides, that station could be hauled in front of a court for brand dilution.
post #4374 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Just wait, I'm sure one day soon, someone will get a patent for air past the patent bureau and you'll be getting a notice of fees you have to pay to license it's use!

Besides, that station could be hauled in front of a court for brand dilution.

I think that a case could be made that this was fair use as a parody.
post #4375 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

1) Has anyone tried to clone their external Hard Drive (via Norton Ghost or Acronis True Image) that handle multiple formats and O/S structure to see if it works?

If #1 is successful, I wonder if

2) Could you clone the external Hard Drive to increase size, such as moving a 300GB External Drive that is mated to the SA8300 to a 500GB External Drive so the material would still be intact with the same unit - but give you more room for additional storage?

It seems that it should be possible in theory - I am just curious if anyone has tried it?

I've have a 500GB External HD and would try it in the future when the 750GB hard drives are common - but curious if anyone has experimented with it now?

Actually ("looking unformatted" isn't an issue for a true bit copy program) IMO you can NOT do a real clone from a 300G drive to a 500G drive. At the very simplest level, the area reserved for the directory has to be different, the addressing could be very different. And that's only a general, informed kind of comment, none of us has clue one as to how they really format the drive, other than the fact that we accept it has to have SOME form of formatting.
post #4376 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Actually ("looking unformatted" isn't an issue for a true bit copy program) IMO you can NOT do a real clone from a 300G drive to a 500G drive. At the very simplest level, the area reserved for the directory has to be different, the addressing could be very different. And that's only a general, informed kind of comment, none of us has clue one as to how they really format the drive, other than the fact that we accept it has to have SOME form of formatting.

If it could be imaged, then it could be cloned irregardless of the format. But that's not an area in which I am knowledgeable.

edit: But just what purpose a cloned drive would serve is beyond me. It could still only be used on the box that "recorded" it.
post #4377 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I think that a case could be made that this was fair use as a parody.

Ha, yes and no. I sure as hell could drone on about patents being given to things that may not be "air" but sure as hell are just as absurd. I DID take out a line I actually DID write about how you were first in line, so we had to be extra special towards you!
post #4378 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Just wait, I'm sure one day soon, someone will get a patent for air past the patent bureau and you'll be getting a notice of fees you have to pay to license it's use!

Patent and Trademark Office would reject the application based on prior art.
post #4379 of 8998
Could it possibly be the cable? I am using the SATA cable that came with the Apricorn enclosure...do we know what SATA version is on the 8300HD? Maybe there is an incompatibilty...there was also a switch setting on the hard drive...we left it on the higher speed setting thinking that it would be backward compatible if it were connected to the slower device connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by picklepot View Post

This is my first post....but I am thankful to this forum for many years of advice and help...now on to my problem.

My config:
SA 8300HD DVR - Time Warner in San Diego
Passport Echo 2.6.002
OS PowerTV 6.14.74.1sp Homeserver Edition 1.8
Internal HD: WDC WD1600BB-56RDA0

Connection via HDMI to Denon 4308 to Vizio GV47L via HDMI

External Drive via eSATA - MAXTOR QV500 with Apricorn EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT


Before connecting the new external drive , DVR worked fine...mostly recorded HD shows...occasionally a glitch on playback, but might be due to compression artifacts on the particular channels...I seemed to notice more on FOX and ABC, but was still very rare.

Connection to eSATA was simple (I just did it last night)...it did the format, and diag confirmed increase in space available. (For Diag --> Select & Exit on front of box until DIAG shows on display....then tune to 611)

It was set to record several HD shows last night. This morning, playback of newly recorded shows had audio stutter and some video stutter (older shows playback fine)....about once every 5 minutes....then would be fine for 10-15 minutes...and so on. All this without stressing the box (not recording at the same time as playback)...


I would appreciate any help!
post #4380 of 8998
Quote:
Originally Posted by picklepot View Post

Could it possibly be the cable? I am using the SATA cable that came with the Apricorn enclosure...do we know what SATA version is on the 8300HD? Maybe there is an incompatibilty...there was also a switch setting on the hard drive...we left it on the higher speed setting thinking that it would be backward compatible if it were connected to the slower device connection.

Try forcing SATA150 operation with the jumper. And re-seat the SATA cables, inside and outside of the enclosure.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › 8300HD and External SATA - It Works!!