8300HD and External SATA - It Works!! - Page 17

I . . feel . . cheated . . . . .

It could actually be worse.
Re-edited info
So far, the yields of larger extended drives are:
160GB Drive = 152GB total space = 1GB OS partition + 1GB reserved partiton + 150GB AV partiton = 150GB usable AV space for recordings
300GB Drive = 279GB total space + 1GB OS partition + 1GB reserved partiton + 259GB usable AV space for recordings (discrepancy of 20GB)
400GB Drive = 353GB AV partition (thanks Sean) (unverified usable space[reported as 292GB free, but that could be from already saved recordings]?)

In the diagnostic pages, there are details about how much space is available on the partition, and how much is usable space (279GB formatted vs 259GB usable on 300GB drive). I'm looking for screenshots or specific data from the large drive users to determine actual space available.


That is not fully determined yet. I want more data from a larger group because the loss of storage may be greater than that.

vegggas

Its a lot easier to determine if the SA8300 recognises drives larger than 400g by noting the unused % and 'doing the math'. I've given hard data that proves that a 400g is recognised, so why is this topic continuing?

I bet that each drive must have space reserved for the 1 hour buffer...that would account for another 9-10GB; and maybe some space reserved for encryption related "stuff" ??

How is it easier than looking at the diagnostic page and seeing EXACTLY how much storage space there is. The percentage used is a user interface GUI that approximates usage and can vary in either direction. I know a 400GB drive is recognized, but what I'm looking for is "How much of it is recognized and usable?". So far, it looks like it drops about 50GB, but no one has listed exact numbers.
It would be nice to know if a terabyte server is connected, how much storage would there be. Would it be only 500GB; 700GB; ect? At what point does unusable space become enough of a problem that you are not willing to pay for increased storage?

vegggas

My 8300HD is at SARA 1.85.19.1 - that means it does not display seperate drive information. However, I did take a picture of the "DVR HDD INFORMATION " screen before the upgrade (with a 300GB Seagate):

Before adding 300GB drive:
ITFS Size: 2097152
AVFS size: 315976300
Total size: 317073452 usable out of 320173056 (size is in 512 byte sectors) = 160GB drive.

After adding 300 GB drive:
ITFS Size: 2097152 (same as before)
AVFS size: 860922500
Total size: 863019652 (an increase of 544946200 (size is in 512 byte sectors))

So, depending on what metric you use, the AVFS increase is about 272 to 279 GB.
Perhaps the newer SARA software does not compute sizes properly?

Because that's what we do here. You seem annoyed.

That must be why I don't get that info either...do you simply see "unavailable" for all the items on pages 32-34 like I do?

How are you going to get more than 400g attached to the SA8300?
You can only add a single SATA drive to the SA8300.

Tony

No, I don't have pages beyond 30, just 1 to 30.

That's not necessarily true; "it" only has to "look" like a single volume to the software. By definition, a RAID array does that. At $3300 for a terabyte it's not practical, at least not for me, but here is a product from Silicon Image that technically could work. Note the third bulleted point at the bottom: "SATA direct host connection." The 8300HD has a builtin host adapter.

as requested:
serial number: 1.87.23.1

I get data on all 35 screens.

I am at 31% capacity.

screen shots attached.

400GB Drive = 353GB AV partition (thanks Sean) (unverified usable space[reported as 292GB free, but that could be from already saved recordings]?)

looks like free space goes down on page 35, as one might expect, as %full increases

Thanks for the screenshots. This cleared things up for me.
It looks like the 400GB drive (seagate?) formats as 372GB and has usable space of 353GB for recording. This follows the same pattern as the 300MB drive, where 19GB is "Lost" between total and usable space.

vegggas

Great, now how can I build my own box and add capacity as I see fit... Are the components separately available to consumers? Does someone sell the empty enclosure requiring only the addition of the drives? Or, can we possibly use a PC with some add in card that would have the PC house the drive array either internally or even externally?

Someone should be able to do something in linux or even windows given the approriate hardware and drivers...I would hope!

Even though my Passport-equipped 8300HD does not have its SATA connection active yet, I am pursuing this very issue. It looks like it may be a headless Linux box, but I haven't heard back from my team yet. The parts can't be that hard to find/duplicate, but the "know-how" may be elusive as I doubt if anyone at SI will spill the beans. If anybody beats me to it, please post!

OOOOOh, terabytes of storage. That should drive vegggas crazy for a while!

Edited: From the news release: "Silicon Image's first system-on-a-chip (SOC) implementation of the SteelVine architecture applies the performance and data reliability benefits of Redundant Array of Independent Disks (RAID) to home storage in a simple, easy-to-use manner. SteelVine requires no special drivers or loading and configuring of software. The interface to a DVR or other source device looks like a single SATA disk drive, even though the power, intelligence and capacity of a full RAID disk array sits behind this powerful chip."

This may make it impossible for us mere mortals to duplicate this box as a DIY project; the "secret" is SI's chip . . .

Hmm, maybe LaCie will come to the rescue with something.

Actually that's what I want to eventually see. So far, only the Maxtor Quickview Expander has been approved and tested by most of the CableCo's. Seagate's expansion drive and one other product has been approved by SA, but they all are limited to 300GB maximum size. I was trying to determine if there was a limit imposed by SA in the firmware, or "other" factors involved. Is this the first and only true nearly unlimited storage DVR available? Will movie companies forcibly try to limit the storage time for viewing (they already do in my line of work [PPV])? Will there be effective storage limits imposed in the near future?
I'm not just trying to be a PITA, but trying to get data to see where this technology is currently being limited, and what the future may hold.

Remember, this is only an interim step for SA. The Multiroom DVR's are already being field tested by consumers for national deployment soon, and the media center DVR's with DVD burners are almost here too, etc. There are a lot of advancments just over the horizon...

vegggas

A problem with expanded storage is that if you need to have a box replaced, your archived movies are toast; there is "box-level" individual encryption on these things. The key resides in the box. Lose the box, lose the key.

FWIW, my cable provider - Suscom, York, PA - tells me they are testing multi-room 8300HD now for deployment "next year."

How long of SATA cables are you guys using? I'm considering upgrading my 8300 (SD) and would like to hide the additional drive away in my entertainment center (about 10 ft. from the DVR).

CxP

From SATA IO.ORG:

* Key benefits of eSATA:Up to 6 times faster than existing external storage solutions: USB 2.0, & 1394
* Robust and user friendly external connection
* High performance, cost effective expansion storage
* Up to 2 meter shielded cables and connectors

2m for me as well.

Update to my post on 7/29/05 - I got Maxtor to send me a replacement Quickview Expander 300gb due to the noise caused by the thermostatically controlled fan constantly running on the original one. The replacement unit works well and is quiet. Hooray!

No way to "piggy-back" these, is there, to add capacity?

pepar - The maxtor Quickview Expander only has the one eSATA port on it, so it doesn't seem like there's an easy way, if at all, to piggy-back two or more of them. It would be nice if you could, though.

Is Cruz systems still the best/cheapest place to get the eSatA - SatA cable? Their website doesn't allow for on-line ordering.

SATA & eSATA cables

Back in May I made a successfull external drive setup with my 8300hd consisting of a now previous generation 7Y250M0 250GB Maxtor SATA Hard Drive and an Addonics Hard Drive Combo encloser/cradle with fan and Cruz cable. Everything had been working perfectly untill 10 minutes ago when I heard a loud grinding/whirring type sound from the drive/enclosure. It was very warm on top and when I lifted the cradle off the glass/plastic stereo rack the bottom was very/very/very warm (almost hot).

I turned on the TV/8300HD and all my recordings were still listed. I powered down the 8300HD then powered down the SATA. I should have tried to play a couple shows, but what the heck. My drives list at 85% so I'd hate to lose anything.

EDIT: Just removed the drive from the cradle and powered up the cradle/fan. It's the fan that seems to be making most of the whirring sound. Do I just get another cradle/fan? Would Addonics replace it for me? Do I put the drive back in untill then

Can I power up my 8300HD w/o the SATA. (possibly use the 8300HD w/o it). Then put the same drive back in when I get the new cradle.


CLOSE EDIT:


Can anybody give me immediate advice on what I should do?

Thanks
CC

I'll guess that you know that grinding and whirring noises are not a good thing to hear from hard drives or you would have said "Oh boy, finally my hard drive is making noises!" Seriously though, at this point you should consider all your data LOST, and take measures to see IF any is recoverable. From now on until you've recovered data or decided that it's all toast, this drive should have any extra cooling you can muster. Removal from the case is a good first step. OK, actually verifying the operation of the case fan is probably the first thing. If it's not working, then that was the reason your rig is overheating; if it is working, then it's just that your hard drive's bearings have given out, or are in the process thereof.

Two things working against you here are the fact that the data is encrypted and that the encryption is unique to your 8300HD, i.e. it will NOT work with any other box. The next thing that is making your task more difficult is that the format is not the one used by your computer. That's the bad news. Unfortunately, there's more bad news; there is no good news. Hopefully, somebody will be able to offer up a piece of software that will allow you to make a bit-for-bit copy of the drive's contents. If it were me, I'd be googling like crazy now to find something.

Sorry I have nothing positive to offer you.