Pio 533/633 vs. Tosh XS34 vs. Pan EH50 - Page 2  

longplay,

You're safe with the XS34. Might be my first choice if I was in the market for a DVDR.

Mine, too -- if only they would release the doggone thing already! Sheesh! They announced it in January and said it would be available in March! I got tired of waiting for it and ended up buying a Panny E95 instead.

Nice. Looks like the new Pioneers are gonna be cheaper than the older models than. The 520 with 80 gig HD still runs about 499.00.

Has anyone here compared the picture quality at LP from the 2004 Toshiba and Pioneer models? I have a Pioneer 420 and a Panasonic ES10 (non-HD, 2005 model) with the improved LP recording mode. In all honesty, I think the 420 in LP is just as good, actually better, than the ES10's.

I'm heavily leaning towards getting another Pioneer.

Anyone have a link for the owner's manual of Toshiba's current HD model? There are things I really like about the Pioneer and would like to see how the Toshiba does these things.

The confusion continues. I was pretty sure I would get the new Panasonic when it comes out. But then I read the following post on another forum.Fatal Flaws List compiled by lordsmurf Sure does sound like the Panasonic brand has it's share of problems. The same poster also has an interesting summary in this link in that same forumChoosing a DVD Recorder

I would be very interested to hear comments of these reviews from people using this forum.

Another thing I read was in the March issue of Consumer reports "best models for use with an HDTV" listed only 2 recorders: the Pioneer 320 and also 520 models. The same report also tested the Panny E55, E85, and E75 recorders and also the JVC MV1S model.

Just to add to my confusion, in early April I posted subject "Transfers from VHS quality" and the majority of the responses suggest that Panasonics do the best job in transferring VHS tapes to DVD's

Comments and opinions requested.

Thanks,

Bob

I'll reply on this, Bob:

"Issues: (1) Macroblocks in images, especially at anything longer than 2-2½ hours. ..
How common is it? (1) Very common. It infects every Panasonic machine. "

My experiences with the E85, E95, and current ES10 confirm this. I described what I saw as "Blotchiness" but I now assume it is "macroblocks."

Last Friday I did a lot of recording CNN at LP [days Pope was dying]. It was REALLY noticable on the clothing of Dr. Sanje Gupta. As a comparison I also recorded to my Pioneer 420 and none of the macroblocks appeared; the picture was far superior. I must say the ES10 is better than the E85 or E95 were.

I'm going to have to take another look at the thread you started in March. I have not tried to copy any of my VHS (or Betamax) tapes to the Pioneer 420 yet, partially because the VCR in that room bit the dust and I've been in no hurry to move another VCR there because even before your thread, I heard the "Panasonic is better for VHS transfers."

What I can tell is that I f-a-r prefer the editing capacities of the Pioneer. Although I have somewhat of an investment in RAM disks, I've been toying with the idea the past few days of just connecting the ES10 to whatever new DVR I get and recording to that HD, as I would VCR->DVR.

Here is the very un-informative reply I received on the 4th:

"We are still waiting for more information on these products."

No, no one has pointed me to a place to get hold of the manual. Maybe I missed it, but I couldn't find it at Toshiba's web site.

After doing a lot of thinking, the RAM alone is not enough reason for me to go with a Toshiba (or Panasonic). I assume the Toshiba would have the same problem the Panasonic does--ability to h-s dubb the RAM disks I have to the HD, but still get stuck recording in real time to DVD-Rs. If this is the case, I might as well just hook-up my ES10 to a HD machine, making believe the ES10 is a VCR, and real-time record to the HD. At least this way I could high speed copy to DVD-R (and save a LOT of time if I want to make more than one DVD-R of something).

There are features I love about the Pioneer, including current models' ability to start recording when my DirecTV receiver turns on. In my opinion, the Pioneer is light-years ahead of Panasonic when it comes to erasing sections of a program. This is why I really have to read the Toshiba manual (and Pioneer's new ones) before buying another DVR with a HD.

I found out Friday that Pioneer is shipping the 533 on Friday (15th) to it's authorized dealers. The manual should be availabe around that time, too.

How so?

One of the authorized Pioneer internet dealers 6ave.com does not yet list the Pioneer but they do show the Toshiba RDXS34 in stock for 499.99 http://www.6ave.com/cat_detail.jsp?a...=sx68875&d=118

Any news on release of 533?

Does the Toshiba xs-32 record Wide Screen material...?
Thanks in advance.

Hi all,

I was strongly considering the new Pioneer 533 until I started looking more into the Toshiba XS34 and found that it's quite comparable. I know that both brands got fairly high praise for their previous models and now I can't decide which way to go.

For those considering one of these models, assuming the Pioneer black out bug is fixed, what factors are you basing your decision on for either the 533 or the XS34?

I presently have 2 Pio 420s and the Toshiba XS-32. I'm strongly leaning toward getting the 533 over the XS-34 next, simply because I find the Pioneer's editing simpler to use. My sole issue with the 420 is that there is a very strange "weak spot" in the tuner around channels 35 through 45 which introduces some quality issues to the picture (it occurs on both of my 420s, more prevalent on one). If I get a 533 and this issue is non-existent, I couldn't ask for anything more for my needs. (The "black OUT" issue of the Pioneer does not really concern me as I do little tape archiving, or could use my XS-32 for problem tapes.)

Captain: The Pioneer 420/520 seems more precise and easier in editing than the Panasonic E95 (E85 and ES10).

On the Pioneer one selects "Erase section" in the navigation window (where one also goes to play something, etc.) and a window comes up where the recording shows with a gray bar under it where "From" and "To" sections get marked "A" and "B" respectively. After selecting the "From" and "To" section, a portion of the recording, that on either end of the section one has marked to delete, plays as it will if the section is deleted. Need a few more frames at the "From" or "To?" Just push "Enter" and easily add a frame or two to either end with the "Step/Slow" button.

I said to just push "Enter" because after making "From" and "To" places, it asks (under the bar, in red) if you want to delete the section as marked. The default here, should you sneeze (or trip) and push the "Enter" by mistake is, "No." One has to select "Yes" by hitting the arrow to the left of the "Enter" key.

The Pioneer has a separate reverse scan button which the Panasonic E95/ES10 does not. I find that the lack of this on the Panasonic makes it more cumbersome to edit the end of something if one uses the "Skip" to go to the end. The pause comes on and the only way I found to do a fast, reverse scan was to push the "Slow/Reverse" for a bit (and the backward movement is s-l-o-w, because the pause comes on when at the end of the recording), push "Play," then quickly push the "Slow/Reverse" again to reverse at a decent speed. This is two annoying steps not needed on the Pioneer which has a dedicated reverse scan button.

On the Pioneer, the "Step/Slow" (which goes forward or backward) is a separate key where one can make precise frame by frame marks.

On the Panasonic, one sees the frames designated as "start" and "End" when shortening, but not how things will play. Also, after selecting Start and End points on the Panasonic, if one clicks "next," the options are 'Cancel' and 'Erase.' If one select 'Cancel,' because one decides to take out a bit more on either end, the 'Start' and 'End' points previously selected are gone. One has to start all over again. On the Pioneer, the A and B points are there (after selecting 'No') in case one wants to modify these rather than start from scratch--but one can start from scratch if desired.

Does it matter if one sees the frames at the selected places to delete rather than a short playing of what it will be like after the edit? I think so. At times there can be music or just words that fade out after the picture is off and the black is going to commercial. With the Pioneer, one hears if the 'From' was made too soon and can adjust things easily.

I could go on, but that's enough to give a picture. I do think Panasonic should have made dedicated reverse and forward scan keys. Without it, one can not go from pause to a fast reverse scan at the end of a recording without 2 unnecessary (in my estimatio) steps.

I'd like to know how the Toshiba does this. Closer to the Pioneer or the Panasonic?

I also have a JVC DR-M10 (non-HD) my cousin bought for himself then gave to me which has DV input. He had never used it and it was first given to me to use for 3 months then he decided I could just keep it. It has the loading error problem so it has to go in for servicing. It takes RAM as well as DVD-R/-RW. After it is repaired, I think I'll probably give it to my neighbors who have a real need for a DVR to copy VHS tapes (that do not require any editing after copied to DVD).

Given how annoying I find editing on the Panasonic is compared to the Pioneer, I have decided to either get another Pioneer (533 or 633) or a Toshiba. I really want to know how the Toshiba edits things, deals with flexible recording, and if it can be turned-on via a satellite signal as my 420 (and the 520) can. I do love my 420. The only thing it lacks is the ability to read DVD-RAM, but I can live without this if necessary.

BTW, giving the JVC to my neighbors is fine with my cousin.

I never use the shorten segment option on my Panasonic. Instead I delete unwanted sections by first setting chapter points at the start and end of the program and also at the start and end of each commercial break. I then delete the unwanted chapters. Multiple chapters can be selected at the same time using the pause key so they all can be deleted at the same time.

Does the Pioneer also let you delete chapters? The method you described does sound better than the shorten segment method on the Panasonic, but it still sounds like it would take longer and be more trouble than marking and deleting chapters.

I don't see how it takes longer and is more trouble the way I described considering one has to mark the beginning and end one way or the other.

Yes, one can delete chapters with the Pioneer. I have the manual in pdf, so rather than explain in my own words, I'll do a copy/paste here for the chapter edit section on pp. 77-78:

Chapter Edit (Chpt Edit)
When editing VR mode DVDs or video on the HDD you
can edit individual chapters within a title, with
commands for erasing, combining and dividing. You can
also play individual chapters to check their content.
1 Select ‘Chpt Edit’ from the Disc Navigator menu
options.
2 Use the /// (cursor buttons) to select the
title that contains the chapters you want to edit,
then press ENTER.
After selecting a title, thumbnails of each chapter appear
and you’ll see that the Disc Navigator menu items
change to the chapter editing commands:
• Erase – Erase chapters: Select the chapter you want
to erase and press ENTER (see also the note below).
• Divide – Divide a chapter into two or more parts:
Select the chapter you want to divide. From the
following screen use the playback controls (, ,
,
, etc.) to find the point at which you want to
divide the chapter. With Divide highlighted, press
ENTER.
You can keep dividing the chapter as many times as
you wish (up to 999 chapters per DVD disc or 99
chapters per HDD title). Highlight Back and press
ENTER to return to the Chapter Edit screen.
• Combine – Combine two adjacent chapters into one:
Highlight the bar divider between two adjacent
chapters and press ENTER (see also the note below)
• Preview – Preview chapters: Select the chapter you
want to play; press STOP to return to the chapter
edit screen.
• Undo – Undo the last command (only works with VR
mode disc edits).
3 Press RETURN to get back to the menu options on
the left side of the screen.
4 To return to the Disc Navigator screen, press
RETURN again, or select ‘Back’ from the menu
options on the left.

[also]

Inserting chapter markers into a title
You can create new chapters within a title using the CHP
MARK button while playing the title or during recording.
This is useful not just for navigation of the disc content
but also for editing purposes.
1 Start playback of the title you want to create
new chapter markers in.
You can use the Play command from the Disc Navigator
menu to do this.
2 Press CHP MARK at any point where you want a
new chapter to begin.
A chapter marker icon appears on-screen briefly to
confirm a new chapter mark has been inserted:
• For greater control over the exact position of chapter
markers it can be useful to use the PAUSE button
and/or the slow-motion and frame ad

Basically, I put chapter divide marks around all the commercial segments. I make a playlist copy, then select all the commercial segments I want to delete. Because the thumbnails are basically all black screen (since the chapter divides are in the fade in/out screens), you delete all the odd numbers or even numbers, depending where your show starts. Unlike the Pioneer, it does not show you a preview of how the edited segments will link together. While I have not played around with the setting which allows you to be more frame accurate, it looks very tedious and not worth the extra steps to me. I always get more split-second snippet of commercial in my Toshiba burns than in my Pioneer's. I "enjoy" editing on the Pioneer much more and find the procedure easier. I always worry about deleting the wrong thing in the Toshiba in case I have an extra chapter mark in there -- you CAN preview each thumbnail to make sure it's the commercial content, but it adds a lot of time to the process.

Thank you, EPlay.

Since you already have a Toshiba, can it be set to automatically start recording when a satellite or cable box turns on? Being a satellite type, TV Guide is a useless feature for me. The automatic recording feature on the Pioneer, though, is absolutely wonderful. This feature with the editing (and the manual recording modes, which I think is much nice than the Panasonic flexible recording) keeps Pioneer at the top of my list for a new DVR, despite having a pile of DVD-RAMs.

ngohit,

I had to do some perusing of the Toshiba Owner's Manual and separate Installation Guide, as I do not have a satellite or cable box myself, just analog cable.

Now that I looked again, I see that the Toshiba came with an IR control cable. Apparently, this is to be connected to the "Channel Change IR jack of the recorder", with the transmitter placed close to the signal sensor of the set top box. Then you go through some "Set Top Box Settings", choosing "C. Box" or "DBS". There is an adjustment you can make as follows:

OFF: Channels of the set top box are selected by its own selector.
ON: The recorder can change channels of the set top box. (If you make timer program recording, keep the set top box powered on to have it receive commands from the recorder.)

You then enter a 3 digit brand code for your set top box.

So I guess the set top box has to continually be on, and the recorder does not automatically sense when it powers on. . .

I hope that helps! :)

It's easier and quicker because I can mark the chapters first and then delete everything I don't want all at the same time. I use TIME-SLIP and CM SKIP to hop around the title quicky when marking the chapter points.

However, based on what you posted from the Pioneer manual it appears I could do basically the same thing. About the only difference I see is that the Pioneer has the UNDO command, which could be useful when you do something foolish like deleting the program chapters rather than the commercial ones. (I've only done it once.)

EPlay: That was very helpful. Thank you very much for taking the time to dig through your manual.

It sounds from what you write as if the Pioneer is still head of the pack for me. In a few days I'll find out if the new HD models also have the ability to start recording when a satellite or cable box turns on or if this wonderful feature goes the way of the dodo now that Pioneer is going to have TV Guide as a feature.

Okay. One thing I didn't mention is how much faster Pioneer is at erasing/deleting something than Panasonic. Even on their new ES10, it seems p-a-i-n-f-u-l-l-y slow waiting for a segment or title to be deleted. On the Pioneer, it's almost instantaneous. If the Pioneer wasn't so fast, I'd probably go the chapter route, too [and wouldn't find the Panasonic so snail-like]. Like you, I use the CM Skip.

I've read that LG is coming out w/ a recorder this month that does most formats and +R DL. If I recall it did have firewire as well. In September, another one of their models is going to have a wireless type of connection so that you can transfer stuff from your computer.

Also, read that sharp is coming out w/ o one this quarter that does most formats and has DV input. Can't seem to find the article right now