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post #121 of 160
No, it didn't come from the Depot. It is a high performance coating. This coating is better than most of the coatings on leather in the marketplace today. One issue I don't have to worry about is microfracturing. The only issue again is adhesion, but I don't think that is going to be a problem. It stuck pretty well to glass without a crosslinker. I would like to think CCPM would work, so maybe someone who has used it could give us a reply. Mike, try it on the mylar and tell us what you think.

Gary,
Yes, I use a HVLP set up from Harbor Freight. I had a nice Devilbiss gun until it along with the rest of the system was stolen. Go figure, who would have thought there would be crime in Miami.:D Whe're #1 Where #1 :D
Ericglo
post #122 of 160
Sheesh,

It looks better and better to just paint on a flat wall with MMud or 313 and get it over with.
post #123 of 160
mission313,

When you get a chance please help me locate the VPG you used. I'd like use it this weekend if possible. Thanks
post #124 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by 1Time
mission313,

When you get a chance please help me locate the VPG you used. I'd like use it this weekend if possible. Thanks
Sorry 1time, I have been extremely busy, and haven't had a chance to catch up. I got it at lowes right in the faux finish area. It isn't listed specifically on the Valspar website, but I swear it exists, I will take pic of it tomorrow. I did notice the lowes i went to didn't have some of the other flavors in stock that I know exist so it may be based on the stor or region that they carry it.

I will make the following comments on the results that I have had so far using both WOP and VPG. I think the VPG is higher quality, but it also is much higher in gain (maybe too much) over wop as it applies much more uniformly, but also has a higher concentration of reflecive particles in it. Both VPG and WOP have a yellowish tint to them when fully cured. The VPG has more of a silver finish than the wop and BOTH are extremely hard to apply without any roller marks.

on CRT's.....
For CRT's if you can get the application right, I think 313white is awesome and is what I am going to use for my CRT projector. I really didn't have to make alot of the comprimises that I had to with many of the other things I ve tried, which is what the original goal was, however it is not perfect or anykind of super solution. I just got pretty good results that I am happy with.

I will discuss more tomorrow after I take a picture of the VPG I picked up at lowes.


J. Rager
post #125 of 160
Hi mission313,

Thanks for the update! That's the EXACT info I was looking for. Unfortunately there isn't too much interest on DIY screens for us CRT owners so your thread is definately appreciated!

I look forward to the photos of the VPG as it looks like I'll be doing some hunting for this product very soon.

-PGPfan
post #126 of 160
PGPfan,

You have that reversed. There is not that much interest by CRT owners in DIY screens on this DIY Forum. Many of the DIY screen apps will lend themselves nicely to a CRT application. 313white seems to certainly fit that bill. So does recent UHG experiments.
post #127 of 160
Thinking of trying the 313white on my wall. Did anyone do any wet sanding in between any of the coats if done on a wall? Should I not wet sand after applying either of the 3 paints?

Thanks.
post #128 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
PGPfan,

You have that reversed. There is not that much interest by CRT owners in DIY screens on this DIY Forum. Many of the DIY screen apps will lend themselves nicely to a CRT application. 313white seems to certainly fit that bill. So does recent UHG experiments.
I have to disagree with you on this MM. There have been a couple of posts on the CRT forum lamenting the fact that the screen forum is mostly about digitals. How many threads are started by guys asking what is best for their 4805? Not many ask about what is best for their CRT? If they do, then they either get no response or just a couple of responses. Take a look at the recent Torus thread on this forum. Compared to the response on the CRT forum it received little interest. This happens on other subjects as well. The CRT forum for this reason has become more about CRT and CRT related than just CRT only.

Ericglo
post #129 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bowbie89
Thinking of trying the 313white on my wall. Did anyone do any wet sanding in between any of the coats if done on a wall? Should I not wet sand after applying either of the 3 paints?

Thanks.

I am not sure what the results will be, but I will state that the smoother, more even, and texturless it is the better the results from my experience.

Those waiting on the VPG info, my server is down hopefully tomorrow I will have it up. On the same note. I don't think you will be all that dissapointed with WOP instead of VPG. The only issue is the creamy off white tint, that doesn't seem to create to much of a colorshift which is also present with the VPG.
post #130 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by Ericglo
I have to disagree with you on this MM. There have been a couple of posts on the CRT forum lamenting the fact that the screen forum is mostly about digitals. How many threads are started by guys asking what is best for their 4805? Not many ask about what is best for their CRT? If they do, then they either get no response or just a couple of responses. Take a look at the recent Torus thread on this forum. Compared to the response on the CRT forum it received little interest. This happens on other subjects as well. The CRT forum for this reason has become more about CRT and CRT related than just CRT only.

Ericglo
Quote:
Originally posted by Ericglo
I have to disagree with you on this MM. There have been a couple of posts on the CRT forum lamenting the fact that the screen forum is mostly about digitals. How many threads are started by guys asking what is best for their 4805? Not many ask about what is best for their CRT? If they do, then they either get no response or just a couple of responses. Take a look at the recent Torus thread on this forum. Compared to the response on the CRT forum it received little interest. This happens on other subjects as well. The CRT forum for this reason has become more about CRT and CRT related than just CRT only.

Ericglo
Eric,

Well, all those 4805'ers are doing is telling you they voted with their wallets.

Your missing the point. Torus screens are seldom considered on DIY not because of desirability, but because of the complexity and expense. For goodness sakes, 2 years ago I had fits trying to instill enough confidence in people to even attempt Wet Sanding. Since that time, no matter how impressive additional strides in DIY have been, by far the majority on DIY'ers opt either for a "No Paint" solution (Parkland, BO Cloth) or a simple "One paint" solution. I'm talkin' percentages here, and the number of those who opt for difficult/expensive, and involved projects is way down into the single digits, percentage wise. One 'service' that those who consistently post new ideas, expound on current ones, and assist others in their endeavors provide, is maintaining a much higher degree of interest in the DIY genre than would otherwise be apparent.

But even a few who aspire to a Torus, and post accordingly yet receive little following, doesn't serve to brand the DIY forum as biased in anyway toward "CRTs". (...excepting price, and that's changing...) That CRTs are the one PJ format that benefits the most from Torus & UHG screen applications makes no impression here, or not nearly so much as the comparison of certain DIY screens to a Industry Wide Standard of Reference, the StudioTek130.

Would you agree that there are more CRT/STK130 owners out there than CRT/ UHG-Torus set ups? A Torus design is a 'compromise' design intended to compensate for the vagrancies of a UHG surface. Lick the problem of needing a retro-reflective design to accommodate high ambient light and most all resistance to that genre would fall away.

Many posts here have expounded upon the CRTs dominance as far as being the PJ with the most impeccable image quality. But many have also drawn reference to the lack of Luminosity. Excepting those who are fortunate enough to acquire a Barco or such on the aftermarket at Firesale prices (drool) , most everyone else is shuffling along with 1000 or less lumens, and resolution that at it's best is still significantly under that of a decent CRT.

.......and of course, there are the much coveted "CRT Blacks" Even recent 'wunderkind" Dark Chip PJs with reputed 6000:1 CRs fal flat against a humdrum CRT PJ with 30,000:1 CR

I I could have my choice, I too would own a CRT. The best I could afford. Untill then, I better stay focused on making the very best of my current situation. A situation shared by almost everyone else; DLP-LCD-Lycos-Homebrew-etc.

All this meaning that if some one active on this Forum (DIY) does acquire a CRT, the first road taken usually leads to the least expensive screen route. Understandable so, since a Flat, Smooth, White wall will look good with a Z1, let alone a halfway calibrated Three Gunner. One should not take a comparison yardstick to the lack of effusive response to a screen app like a Torus, to that of any 'easier' DIY application. It's just the nature of the DIY beast. One thing is for sure, posting a Torus thread always brings out the few with interest. Someone who wants the most potential Lurkers to discover such a thread need not be ashamed at "bumping" it out of the archives either.

Instead, continue to post. Refine a process toward where inept 1st Time'rs can both Lust for, and attempt to Achieve. I'll tell you what you already know. Create a Screen app that will allow normal (Low) ambient light viewing, at sizes not limited to screen construction or shipping consideration, and you WILL get more attention than others apps that specialize on either end of the scale.
post #131 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
Eric,

Well, all those 4805'ers are doing is telling you they voted with their wallets.

Many posts here have expounded upon the CRTs dominance as far as being the PJ with the most impeccable image quality. But many have also drawn reference to the lack of Luminosity. Excepting those who are fortunate enough to acquire a Barco or such on the aftermarket at Firesale prices (drool) , most everyone else is shuffling along with 1000 or less lumens, and resolution that at it's best is still significantly under that of a decent CRT.

.......and of course, there are the much coveted "CRT Blacks" Even recent 'wunderkind" Dark Chip PJs with reputed 6000:1 CRs fal flat against a humdrum CRT PJ with 30,000:1 CR

I I could have my choice, I too would own a CRT. The best I could afford. Untill then, I better stay focused on making the very best of my current situation. A situation shared by almost everyone else; DLP-LCD-Lycos-Homebrew-etc.
Since there are two points, I will address them individually.

LOL, I guess the 4805 and others did vote with their wallets. They are very inexpensive projectors. What would you say if I told you I spent less than $1000 on all five of my projectors(4 CRTs and 1 recently sold to CJ 3-chip DLP)? Individually, my projectors cost less than the DIY Lumenlab pjs. There are plenty of resellers selling limited warranty CRTs for inexpensive prices. You can have your cake and eat it too. Heck, I will sell you a NEC for cheap.:D Now, I wouldn't want to turn this into a Digital vs CRT thread.

I just used the Torus as a recent reference. On other threads, CRTers have lamented the mostly digital nature of this forum. That is fine with me, but it is the way it is. In all reality, a CRT is fine with a white reference or UHG to increase brigtness. They don't need a lot of screen variation.

Ericglo
post #132 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
Eric,

But even a few who aspire to a Torus, and post accordingly yet receive little following, doesn't serve to brand the DIY forum as biased in anyway toward "CRTs". (...excepting price, and that's changing...) That CRTs are the one PJ format that benefits the most from Torus & UHG screen applications makes no impression here, or not nearly so much as the comparison of certain DIY screens to a Industry Wide Standard of Reference, the StudioTek130.

Would you agree that there are more CRT/STK130 owners out there than CRT/ UHG-Torus set ups? A Torus design is a 'compromise' design intended to compensate for the vagrancies of a UHG surface. Lick the problem of needing a retro-reflective design to accommodate high ambient light and most all resistance to that genre would fall away.

All this meaning that if some one active on this Forum (DIY) does acquire a CRT, the first road taken usually leads to the least expensive screen route. Understandable so, since a Flat, Smooth, White wall will look good with a Z1, let alone a halfway calibrated Three Gunner. One should not take a comparison yardstick to the lack of effusive response to a screen app like a Torus, to that of any 'easier' DIY application. It's just the nature of the DIY beast. One thing is for sure, posting a Torus thread always brings out the few with interest. Someone who wants the most potential Lurkers to discover such a thread need not be ashamed at "bumping" it out of the archives either.

Instead, continue to post. Refine a process toward where inept 1st Time'rs can both Lust for, and attempt to Achieve. I'll tell you what you already know. Create a Screen app that will allow normal (Low) ambient light viewing, at sizes not limited to screen construction or shipping consideration, and you WILL get more attention than others apps that specialize on either end of the scale.
On the Torus, I disagree with your assertion that it is a compromise solution. In fact it is the ultimate solution for screens with gain over 2. Read Icemans thread http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...ighlight=torus Even Don Stewart (yes that Stewart) gives Iceman a thumbs up for his work.
Also, the Torus would work for digitals as well as CRTs. Alan Gouger uses curved screens with his digitals(info second hand from Darinp, but I have heard Alan talk about Torus screens he has had in the past). If you look at the graph at the end of Iceman's post, then you will see how good a Torus design can be compared to flat screens.
The rest of your post I agree with. The Torus isn't that difficult to build, but it is more difficult than painting a board.

Ericglo
post #133 of 160
Was the gain of this screen mentioned using a Digital Projector with high contrast? aka-AE700?

Is it still 1.5-2.0?

Many Thanks
Tukkis
post #134 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by 1Time
Has anyone else tried this: tileboard + CCPM ?

mission313,

Do you have a link or a part number for the tileboard you used from Lowes?

Also, do you have a link or can you please confirm the name and part number: Valspar DE Translucent Iridescent Glaze Pearl no. 90627. I haven't been able to find it at Lowes or on-line.

Thanks
mission313,

I found the VGP (90627) at a different Lowe's; it's pictured in my gallery. I also picked up a 1/4" x 4' x 8' (Edit: DoAble) vinyl board from HD for $15. It's a slightly grayer white than my current screen, a Parkland PolyWall. It's surface is slightly smoother than the textured side of my Parkland PolyWall. I believe the Parkland vinyl board is the board you used and referred to as "tileboard".

Thanks again for your contributions.
post #135 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by mission313
My list of materials:

I started with a 77x54 BOC screen (any screen will work)

1 – Quart of Behr Ultra Pure White Flat wall Paint $6
1 – Quart Behr Premium Plus White Opal Pearlesence No. 751 $19
1 – Quart Behr Premium Plus Crystal-Clear Water Based Polyurethane Clear Matte No. 780 $15

Total cost of paint = $40

Mission - Any chance you could post pics of the paint label on the white opal and clear matte? I went to HD tonight to get the paints and he couldn't pull up either of those when he punched them in the computer.

Well I put my first (only?) coat of UPW on the wall tonight. Didn't like the look of how it went on but will wait till tomorrow morning to see how it dries. It seems to me that I also might need another coat.
post #136 of 160
post #137 of 160
So any of these options should show increased pop or percieved brightness over plain old BO cloth? I have an AE-700 and after 500+hrs the bulb has dimmed fairly considerably. Barring early bulb retirement, I want to paint the screen and increase the gain to get back the joy I once had with my PJ :) It doesn't have to be perfect or blow the BO cloth away, just better. You think 313white then?

It's 100" diag with velvet boarder, total light control sitting oh, 18 ft away.
post #138 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by garyfritz
Try the Behr WOP page.
Thanks. Didn't realize it was already mixed. I printed it out and will bring it with me.
post #139 of 160
Oh yeah, it's not a standard HD-mixes-it paint. It's in the specialty paints area, next to the metallics & stuff. The HD guy should be able to find it.
post #140 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Jcam9
So any of these options should show increased pop or percieved brightness over plain old BO cloth? I have an AE-700 and after 500+hrs the bulb has dimmed fairly considerably. Barring early bulb retirement, I want to paint the screen and increase the gain to get back the joy I once had with my PJ :) It doesn't have to be perfect or blow the BO cloth away, just better. You think 313white then?

It's 100" diag with velvet boarder, total light control sitting oh, 18 ft away.

Yes these will all have more gain than plain BO. However they also have a smaller viewing cone and 313WHITE has a slight yellowing from the pearl. With these methods its all about as little texture as possible. Texture and uneven rolloing is very noticable. The WOP version has a gain somewhere around 2.0 and the VPG has a gain of 3.0+ both very noticeable. With the AE-700 and 2000:1 CR. blacks shouldn't be an issue, which is why I tried 313grey, however I think there are better mixes on here for low cr projectors than this. I will state that this on BO cloth was nearly impossible to not have roller marks.

On a side note I am gonna start my 313WHITE CRT screen project in the next couple of weeks.
post #141 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by garyfritz
Oh yeah, it's not a standard HD-mixes-it paint. It's in the specialty paints area, next to the metallics & stuff. The HD guy should be able to find it.
Exactly, it is in the faux finish area.

Also I got better results using a smooth surface foam roller in applying these paints.

J. Rager
post #142 of 160
I am new to the forum and I am confused which formula should I use for my screen.
I am going to use white tile board and I have infocus X1 projector.

Which combination should I use..

A>
Behr Ultra Pure White Flat wall Paint $6 aka UPW
Behr Premium Plus White Opal Pearlesence No. 751 $19 aka WOP
Behr Premium Plus Crystal-Clear Water Based Polyurethane Clear Matte No. 780 $15 aka CCM"

B>
Just apply VGP (90627) ( Do I have to apply anything else with this?)

C>
Just apply 313white or 313 grey

Thanks for your help!
post #143 of 160
pape, welcome to AVS.
The paint mixes discussed in this thread were highly experimental. I'm not sure mission313 recommended any of them except for 313white with a CRT. You might want to hold off until you get more feedback, particularly from mission313.
post #144 of 160
Jcam9,

Still reading this thread?
Curious if you've made any headway with your screen project for your 700?

ted
post #145 of 160
Wish more time was spent before posting results... 5 pages of "this is great", followed by "starting over", followed by .... geez, after 5 pages of back and forth, I cannot recall what came next.


-T
post #146 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone
Wish more time was spent before posting results... 5 pages of "this is great", followed by "starting over", followed by .... geez, after 5 pages of back and forth, I cannot recall what came next.


-T
That is the cycle of most DIY Experimentation / solutions. I alwas read the last page or two to see what the real deal is, then if I like what I am reading I go back and read the whole thing.

I think where I ended up is that it is pretty tough to apply any reflective coat with any kind of consistancy with a roller. I think the 313WHITE works pretty good however it has trade offs just like about every other DIY Solution.

Now that said I still beleive that this is a valid solution from the stand point of a multi layer High Gain DIY Screen. I am working on dealing with the Color and application issues by using manufactured vinyl materials. If I can get those to work, It will be as good as if not better than a "real" Screen. I am trying to use common materials that you could go to any sign company and give them the specs and they could make it up for you for hopefully less than $100. Then you just have to frame and mount it.
post #147 of 160
I have been lurking for a while and this thread was very interesting to me. I am waiting to close on my new house at the end of the month and it has a media room in it. I planned on masking/painting the wall for a low cost screen. I will be getting a Sanyo V3 LCD projector, and the room is light-controlled.

Here is my question for those of you with much more experimenting and experience than myself: for increased contrast for the LCD projector, what if you add a touch of black to the UPW in the 313White formula, and keep the other 2 coats the same? Would this still net you the gain (with the WOP and CCPM) and a slight contrast enhancement with the slight grey basecoat? How would this compare to a ME or MMUD? Any other recommendations for a light controlled room with that projector?

Thanks!
post #148 of 160
Mission313's mix is at least as tricky to acquire and mix/apply as MMud.
He's taking a different bent right now so you should PM him and ask for his specific advice asap so as not to wander down and dead end roads.

Fer instance;

A Grey basecoat that receives light through any Top coat thin enough to let it pass through will darken blacks alright, but darken everything else as well.

Also, too thin a Top Coat makes for a Fuzzy, indistinct image.

Search for info on MMud-SE w/1 oz. SM
Use a Bright Gloss White for the undercoat
Top with 3 thin layers of MMud-SE

You'll get that CR Boost out of the 700 without losing lumens and/or good white levels.

That's all I got ta say 'bout that.
post #149 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex71
I have been lurking for a while and this thread was very interesting to me. I am waiting to close on my new house at the end of the month and it has a media room in it. I planned on masking/painting the wall for a low cost screen. I will be getting a Sanyo V3 LCD projector, and the room is light-controlled.

Here is my question for those of you with much more experimenting and experience than myself: for increased contrast for the LCD projector, what if you add a touch of black to the UPW in the 313White formula, and keep the other 2 coats the same? Would this still net you the gain (with the WOP and CCPM) and a slight contrast enhancement with the slight grey basecoat? How would this compare to a ME or MMUD? Any other recommendations for a light controlled room with that projector?

Thanks!

I have tried several grey versions and they are no better than many of the easier proven solutions already here on avs. Adding grey in this application really works against the multiple coat principle.

I also tried experementing using blacks and again the percieved contrast can be improved DRAMATICALLY almost CRT like, however the white and color crush is too great and the closer you get to balance the less the the contrast and makes the compromise not worth it. If that makes any sense.
post #150 of 160
I have moved into new house. The basement dimensions are 16ft by 35ft. I have infocus X1 (DLP projector with 1100 lumens). Could you please let me know which screen material (black out cloth or Tile board) and paint formula I should experiment with. I see there are many options but I need your recommendation on were to start with some think that will work with my projector.
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