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My 1.5-2.0 gain - simple, no mixing, DIY Screen - Page 3  

post #61 of 160
Thread Starter 
Sometimes I need to learn to leave well enough alone.....


The light grey - SM - CCPM was a nighmare and still is....I will be starting over and going back to the original 313WHITE version. This is the last time I swear....lol. I was happy with it, I just don't why...Arrrg. And I used up all my extra WOP so I gotta get more.....DOH.
post #62 of 160
Quote:
This is the last time...
Anybody else skeptical about this claim...? :D
post #63 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by mission313
Sometimes I need to learn to leave well enough alone.....


The light grey - SM - CCPM was a nighmare and still is....I will be starting over and going back to the original 313WHITE version. This is the last time I swear....lol. I was happy with it, I just don't why...Arrrg. And I used up all my extra WOP so I gotta get more.....DOH.
Don't stop now! I'm sure you haven't snatched all the hair from you head yet!

Who knows what lies in store for a man on a Mission?


Quote:
Originally posted by jjcritch
I am sure you are right (given your experience) but let me tell you what I have done.

I have a 110" diagonal drywall screen I have constructed. I have a bright white primer covered by 2 UPW layers. Then I started reading this forum and decided to make up some 1:1:1 MMud. Covered the whole screen with 3 coats (light sanding between each.) And dont get me wrong, I am very happy with it.
You'd have been happier still had you not been compelled to sand the MMud coats. If you had Boo Boos or something, sanding to correct only is advised, but no more. Use any roller with a heavier nap than 3/8" and yes, you can expect texture. Texture builds upon itself. If your plagued with this problem, a light Wet Sanding after the 2nd coat "only, followed by a carefully applied finish is the proper procedure.

Nowhere on this Forum is it recommended by me to sand...wet or otherwise...unless the situation demands it.

But of course, so often it does demand it, because the Folks who usually opt to Roll are the same who would not care to spend for spray equipment. Ergo; The ones who want the cheapest DIY screen possible. They usually have lessor inherent Rolling skills, but figure that the price difference between spraying and rolling is worth the risk.

I say that's like buying cheap Winter Wear. You'll probably survive exposure to the elements, but chances are, you'll have a miserable time along the way.

Anywho, by sanding any coat that has translucent properties, you will affect the amount of light that is efficiently bouncing off of and within the paint's various layers. It's really hard to create a Mix that both reflects AND absorbs without either overpowering the attributes of the other.

I probably should have just said that at the beginning, eh? :p

Quote:

What I am saying is that I (personally myself) cannot tell the difference when I put a couple of coats of UPW and DB mix on a piece of drywall next to it. I just dont see what the WOP is doing for the mix.
To reach translucency, yet maintain reflectivity, UPW is cut with Deep Base, which certainly does thin out the "white" ratio. Additional reflectivity is added via the use of the WOP. Not a whole hell of a lot, but enough, especially when the WOP's magic little mirrors are effectively distributed throughout and suspended within the mix. Up to a point, the thicker the layer of MMud, the more light is not only reflected, but is also absorbed withing the paint. If the backing is highly reflective, the light within the paint has nowhere to go but back out the front.

If the mix is a pure white, and it's translucency is maintained as much as possible by NOT scuffing it up unnecessarily :mad: then there will be very little attenuation, as well as a more even dispersion of light across the screen. (OK, I won't link to another impossible appearing sideways screen shot. Ya seen 'em. They exist.)

The same translucency of MMud allows for a paint like Silver Metallic, or any neutral gray for that matter, to tint the mix to enhance Blacks. Once again, this requires a deft hand, and to err on the Conservative side is to show great wisdom. The object is to enhance, not overwhelm. When it's right, Brudder, ya knows it!

Quote:

Now this all makes sense when you say that 1:1:1 MMud is really for LF screens. I have complete ignorance in the LF area.
Ignorance of the Law is No Excuse. Tell it to the Judge!

Quote:

About the HHS, are you really talking about the "aluminum", because I moved that panel all over the place and I didnt think the HHS even got close to hotspotting. The "aluminum" however was like a mirror.
Above a bit, you said;
"The blacks from the High-heat silver are amazing. Tryg shows a close up of the paint itself but it is really something you have to see in person. It has almost a gritty surface that is indeed a $5 Firehawk. Best of all, despite the rattle can, the paint goes on flawlessly even."
As for it not going on evenly. I disagree, I have sprayed large enough surfaces and it looked flawless to me." [/b][/quote]


So of course. I was referring to the HHS. And many have tried the Spray can route with that stuff and had no success at all on doing large areas. You need to expect than many will covet your results, and if they try and fail, it's as if you failed with them in their minds. (Isn't the only size area you've sprayed with a can somewhat smaller than 85" x 48"?) Some have tried emptying the cans, while others have tried to locate the same in Bulk form. Nadda success under commercial quantities of "several" gallons. There have been several "Close matches" but "close matches' were always that..., just "close".


Quote:

I don't want my posts to sound like I am disputing your knowledge. Everything you say is right and comes from years of experience. The things I am stating probably are old news and maybe my conditions/methods are way off. I recommend people out there follow MMan's advice way before mine.
Kind of you to say so, but I'm still learning everyday. In every post, by newbee or a Multi-K post AVS Special Member, there are special lessons to learn and info to glean. For those who make the effort, edification comes.

Because I have absorbed about 95% of all that has gone before me in DIY Screens, and can regurgitate it at will, and have already had my share of misspent effort, as well as read the lamentations of those that came before me, during my tenure, and continue to rise up from the depths of despair everyday with tales of woe, I do sometimes rush to head off problems or correct misconceptions as "I see them".

Would that it be that I'm always right, at least enough times to be really respected! :D That has yet to happen. Sometimes the info does get jumbled, dates & time lines go askew, but overall, the most important and basic things I've learned and witnessed remain constant, and close enuff to the surface to retrieve quickly enuff to seem proficient.

Keep my secret, OK? ;)

Quote:

That being said, I am just calling them how I see them. And unfortunately there are a lot of new commers on AVS nowadays and due to the way things work in forums, we cannot possibly go through the last 2 years threads to find out what worked and what didn't.
Now there I strongly disagree,

Did you get a "Bye" through High School because 4 years of school was a long time to have to attend?

In all due respect, but with a small measure withdrawn for punitive effect, what makes you think the time spent wouldn't be worth it. When I read statements like that, it's usually because a newbee wants the whole picture laid out for him, in exquisite detail, with every required link, testimonials pointed out, and a "Rock Solid Garran'Tee' of success. He say's, "I can't possibly take the time to read through the whole thread, or all the related threads." "So just give it to me all at once, would cha?"

But of course, that's usually what I wind up doing a lot of anyway, because berating an anxious Newbee can squash a lot of enthusiasm. That's certainly NOT what I'm here for.

So I at least try to "wise 'em up".

I tell 'em;

Use the Search feature. Ask for specific directions to Threads & Posts related to your interests . Actively research BEFORE you go down paths that lead where others have tread and got their shoes muddy, and I don't mean with "you know what".

Re Dredged up mistakes only cost you valuable time. all I'm saying is to at least try to take your research to the next level before you start "Field Trials". This ain't the SDI, ya know.


Quote:

I appreciate your input MMan. Please continue to help us less experienced DIYers with your input.
I hate you. :mad: ;) :D
post #64 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by jjcritch


The blacks from the High-heat silver are amazing. Tryg shows a close up of the paint itself but it is really something you have to see in person. It has almost a gritty surface that is indeed a $5 Firehawk. Best of all, despite the rattle can, the paint goes on flawlessly even.
Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
So of course. I was referring to the HHS. And many have tried the Spray can route with that stuff and had no success at all on doing large areas. You need to expect than many will covet your results, and if they try and fail, it's as if you failed with them in their minds. (Isn't the only size area you've sprayed with a can somewhat smaller than 85" x 48"?) Some have tried emptying the cans, while others have tried to locate the same in Bulk form. Nadda success under commercial quantities of "several" gallons. There have been several "Close matches" but "close matches' were always that..., just "close".
So, am I correct to conclude I "could" have a reasonable simulation of a Firehawk provided I use an appropriate spraying technique with a $5 rattle can?

If so, please share any spraying technique tips/instructions that may increase my chances of success!
post #65 of 160
Yeah. And give us a guarrantee of success while your at it. ;)

I've seen the posts written by those who have tried, and done so with great care, and very few posted results worth following up on.

Hire an expert with a spray can.

They abound in the Inner cities don't they?

The Graffitti Screen Company.

Let us "Pimp Your Wall".



:D :p :D :p
post #66 of 160
That is pretty funny... lol.

So, perhaps a better way would be to have a pro like at an auto-paint shop empty a few of cans into their spray machine? Thanks
post #67 of 160
Say Mission313 -

Thanks so much for your pictures - they were very interesting!

Couple of questions:

- In the pictures your whites have a strong blue tinge. Was this just your camera - or your pj - or were they infact not even meant to be white - or is something else going on? I haven't got to the WOP stage with my experiments yet, but I didn't have the impression that my WOP was doing that to my picture.

- I also notice that the brightness drops off toward the edges. How much do you notice the drop off in pratice?

- And just a massive brain wave about drop off: has anyone with a spray system tried anything with CONCENTRIC LAYERS to combat warm spotting / drop off? If you had someting that would either cool down the center or - better, I think - heat up the edges (say a retroreflective coating?) you could duplicate the effect of a curved screen on a flat surface. (OK, sounds pretty dumb now that I've typed it. Oh well ... )

Peace,

Mike
post #68 of 160
Thread Starter 
Thats my crappy camera...lol

It is also a camera effect with the drop off. I am sure it does exist to some extent but to be honest I have not noticed.

I am gonna paint my new screen for the crt in my upstairs theater with the 313WHITE from scratch in a few weeks "sprayed"

I am still reeling from the mess I created in my dedicated HT with the SM experement.
post #69 of 160
You know, that's quite a camera you have there ...

Quote:
Originally posted by mission313
I am still reeling from the mess I created in my dedicated HT with the SM experement.
Well, don't just leave us hanging here, bro - we need some details here! What went so horribly wrong??

BTW, as soon as I get home from work, I'm going to spray a test layer of WOP onto a layer of silver - so perhaps by then I'll know all about the awful things that have happened to you!

Oh - and welcome (soon) to the ranks of the SPRAYERS. Just a tip: don't thin your paint too much when you spray! I just made a real mess testing a white undercoat. It had sputtered a bit when I sprayed the first coat on two sections of plastic tarp (I've kicked my flip chart habit), so I thinned it down a batch with maybe 20% water. While I was spraying I was thinking "Wow! It's amzing how fast and thick the stuff goes on now!"

Five minutes later, I came back from cleaning my equipment and got to watch trails of paint run down my work.

* * * * *

BTW, I was just tooling through eBay US when I ran into two links for what looks like almost the exact same HVLP system I got in Switzlerland a couple weeks back, only 20$ cheaper. Here's one of the links - one seller seems to have two of them on the block for 65$ each. (For the record, I'm not the seller, I don't know the seller, I don't even live on the same continent as the seller, this might actually be a really bad deal, and so I'm not endorsing his auction in any way shape or form - this is just something I noticed. And the product is working pretty well for me.) Here's the link.

Oh - one other thing: I just found out that the folks marketing Goo in Germany actually rent out a Wagner 650 HVLP system (newer but one step down from mine). At about 45$ a pop (you get to use it for three days), it's probably a fair deal from their standpoint, but a pretty bad one for the kind of guy who would get into this DIY gig in the first place.

Peace,

Mike
post #70 of 160
Thread Starter 
UPDATE - UPDATE - UPDATE!!!!!!!!


I just spent an hour rummaging through the faux finish isle at Lowes, and I came across an great find!

I found an off the shelf pure pearlescence! Wooooooohoooo!

So I am modifying like this to test and will post results in a day or two!

EDITED


I have to admit that there is definiatly a pearl coloration with the WOP, and I really wanted a pure white screen. So I went to lowes, I remebered they had a much better selectio of faux finish supplies. I had a piece of paper with me so I opened the bottles (shhhhh) and dipped my finger in a spread several small samples on the paper. I then walked around Lowes lookin at stuff to build my bar out of, then checked the results and found this stuff. It looks white with no reflective properties, then it dries completely clear just leaving the reflective glaze. WOW. very fine particels too. It only comes in pints so I bought 2.

I will report back.......


RE:SM the stuff in pure form just doesn't roll on period. I tried three coats, it was pointless. SM has to be perfectly smooth or it reflects light in too many directions and you end up with less gain then you started with. So I am droping the 313GREY and not recomending it period. However I may try to do a grey base with this new stuff as it may work as well, I will do a test panel with any leftovers.


J. Rager
post #71 of 160
Good find !!

IT has been a while since I went looking for pearlescence paints but I had found a few that were a truer white than WOP If that matters is another question but I wanted to keep the screen as neutral a colour as I could for my crt projector .

Bruce
post #72 of 160
Thats awesome Mission313, I can't wait to go to Lowe's tomorrow.
Your original mixture has tested great on what I have tried but that darn yellowing was getting under my skin.
I was also thinking about what would happen if you added pearlecent pigment(Jaquards?) right to the CCPM. Has anyone tried this?

I plan on making a board with your 313White Rev.2 process with Behr Silver Screen instead of UPW (name=313SS ?). Can't wait to see the results

----

As for the High Heat White I said I was gonna try. I't crap. I think I better cut my losses and just listen to MMan and drop the rattle cans. As much as what I am seeing personally looks even, I just can't dispute his due diligence.

__

I did however make up another test board pitting HHW / 1:1:1 MMud / and 313white. I can post the pics or send them if anyone cares.
post #73 of 160
Thread Starter 
I don't know if I mixed up the samples or what, but the stuff I got home with and the samples I "tried" aren't quite the same. The stuff I have been playing with this evening isn't the same stuff I got geeked up about earlier in the day. I am not sure where, I went wrong. Maybe some of the pealescense residue made it from sample to sample. I will know more tomorrow. Don't waste your cash till I figure out what I did wrong. See, here we go I again I am all geeked up on this screen stuff again. My wife is gonna kill me.

Seriously though, to those who are new to this before you go out an buy a bunch of stuff and start trying to duplicate the 500 different mixes and methods in these forums. Remeber most of this is trial and error, and we are just having fun and like experementing. I would say 90% of the time you will be happier with a plain white UPW screen. Its proven to be about the best if you don't need the gain and your projector has a 1000:1 contrast or better. Honestly.

Reflecting back, no pun intended, If I would have saved my money I could have a kick ass stewart by now no problem.

J. Rager
post #74 of 160
Thread Starter 
Oh jj I have tried suspending pearlesecnce powder from micheals, I couldn't get it evenly suspended. I also tried mixing that in with mmud.

We need to find some darn stop sign tape in 56" wide rolls! That is what we really need....lol

I wish I could bleach WOP...lol The WOP really wasn't that bad, actually untill you guys pointed it out I really didn't notice the coloration, as I was working under 2700K lamps.
post #75 of 160
jjcritch, if you use the MICROPEARL from JACQUARDS, and mix into some matt clear, you will be making a pearlescent medium. Add a bit of white and you will have pearl white/opal white etc.
Adding the correct amount of pearl to the clear would be tricky - perhaps 25% would be a good start.
post #76 of 160
ziggy, Mission313 says he cant get the Pearl-ex mixed evenly. Even if we could, I wasnt thinking of mixing white in, I was going to use it as a clear coat over some SS.
If you are suggesting that white in the CCPM might make the mix better, I think you may be on to something.

____

As for the Lowe's faux, I guess ill wait. I have some other things I want to try anyway.
post #77 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by jjcritch
I did however make up another test board pitting HHW / 1:1:1 MMud / and 313white. I can post the pics or send them if anyone cares.
What did you conclude from this comparison? And, excuse me if you mentioned this before... what pj are you using? Thanks
post #78 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by 1Time
What did you conclude from this comparison? And, excuse me if you mentioned this before... what pj are you using? Thanks
Well my first quick look at this new comparison is with the checker pattern from my Epson 800p (1500 lumen) PJ that I used in the above post.

I found that the HHW is no different from a matte white spray paint :( . It does not have the "faceted" texture like the HHS does.(I am still a big fan of the HHS, its just a little do dark for my application.)

The 1:1:1 MMud looks like UPW eggshell or semi-gloss mix. I just dont think this is the right application for the mud. With the pearl pigment mixed thoughout the paint, it seems LF is the correct usage of this.

Again I have a stripe of just UPW between each panel and again I see some minor yellowing of the 313white (however it is less than previously because I did thin the WOP this time.) This mix otherwise still looks the best to me once you get past the cream shift. All we have to do now is find a receipe for a non-yellowing pearl...
post #79 of 160
Thread Starter 
I am gonna hit some more places this afternoon. and try to figure out what I had on my sample from lowes...doh.

I would prefer to not do any mixing as it kind of takes away from the simplicity of the easy three coats application. However, Maybe there can be an easy and a color corrected version that requires some mixing.

I will update tonight.

I think I am getting my HD receiver tonight as well.

J. Rager
post #80 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by ziggyr
jjcritch, if you use the MICROPEARL from JACQUARDS, and mix into some matt clear, you will be making a pearlescent medium. Add a bit of white and you will have pearl white/opal white etc.
Adding the correct amount of pearl to the clear would be tricky - perhaps 25% would be a good start.
I really like this idea. Adjust the mixture of micropearl and white additive for the desired amount of reflectivity and translucence; plus it's white instead of opal colored. I would think a top coat of clear matte may still be desired. Hmm...
post #81 of 160
Why the "micropearl"? What I have used in past screens as a top powder rub is the "pearl white". Do you think this is too large of a flake 1Time?
post #82 of 160
Life is a compromise. If trying to get pearlecent additives to mix evenly is virtually impossible, then obviously, the process requires that it be done in the Mfg process.

Ya'all take this right now. I think it's somewhat amusing how some are making such a big deal about the slight cast of yellow in the WOP. It's an issue that's not there when the ratio of the MMUd mix is correct. Only in mixes tweaked to excess does it start to overpower the white elements involved. That should be made abundantly clear by those advocating the use of larger amounts. Otherwise many who might decide to avail themselves of WOP might not , only on the weight of a misunderstanding. That sort of stuff is rife here on AVS.

Most certainly a really white Pearl would be something, but I don't think it exists. The very nature of "Pearl" when it's contained within a suspension such as paint, is to cast a slight cream coloration. That's what pearls do in nature.(Black Pearls notwithstanding, CMRA) Some Pearls might be less obvious at doing the "pearl thing", but to some extent, once "In the Mix", they all start behaving the same.

WOP would and does exhibit this trait to excess if it's ratio quantity in a given mix is too high. Plus there's the heightened sheen that results in Hot Spot problems for brighter PJs.

If a Pearl Faux paint hasn't got a sheen that resembles that of a real Pearl, then it's a Faux/ Faux Pearl that takes the glowy properties of a Pearl and lends a different hue to the effect. A pure White Pearl would qualify for that description.

Mirrors. Mylar. Real polished Aluminum. These things will deliver gain. Paint Mixes use alone as the screen medium will always continue to run up against a wall as far as how bright the can be before taking on undesirable characteristics.

Buy ya all keep on trying now.
post #83 of 160
Looked at from an angle under ambient light, yes the WOP pure over white has the yellowish hew, but I could not see it, or it is very minute when hitting it directly with projection. I think JR was saying the same thing with his "blue" pics. When I put it up against very white GOO, it certainly did not appear yellow. Plus if using 2 or three thin coats of even the slightly hotter than standard WOP MMUD mix for top coats, there's more white back into the equation. Undoubtedly there has to be some small amount of shift but nothing like when you look at it from an angle with ambient light, not projected light. It's not as much shift as hot gray base for those wanting "white" colors, whether with clear matte top coat or other.
post #84 of 160
Very well sumarized, RonF.

It was essentially the same when I was adding a slight bit of Red into MMud to compensate for the Blue shift the "then current" crop of LCD PJs seem to exhibit. No one I know of who used that mix 'correctly' ever complained of any noticeable color shift toward "pink", only those who wanted to focus of disproving the use of any Red at all. And NONE of then ever made one anyway. Always, critisium avoided mentioning that the Red was for LCDs, not DLPs, preffering instead to point out how a DLP shifted to Red with "Pink" MMud.

Many early Light Fusions had the RO added, and at least as far as the one's I produced, they all looked razor sharp and correct as far as color was concerned. almost every Screen shot taken and posted by myself prior to last April was off a "Pink Fusion".

The sad truth is that the very advocacy of using some RO caused several disasters for "Go Getters' who skimmed the Threads, got all worked up to make a DIY MMUd or LF screen 'yesterday' and who then proceeded to mix in far too much RO. We are talkin' Little Girl's Room pink MMud!

The only way to mitigate that was to double up on all other ingrediants. I don't know anyone who took it so far as to paint their screen with the "Pink" MMud who didn't opt to redo it with a 'watered down pink' recoat.

There a strong lesson to be learned from those snafus. And it's NOT that those such as I should NOT recommend tints or the like. It's that Newbees should NOT rush into doing speculative work based on their own changes, nor attempt any DIY project that has a cost over $50.00 without double, triple, and quadruple checking both the info on Forum, requesting some direct advice & answers via PM-Email-New Thread, and when they are certain they have it all down pat, go back.....and check again.
post #85 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by jjcritch
Why the "micropearl"? What I have used in past screens as a top powder rub is the "pearl white". Do you think this is too large of a flake 1Time?
I have no idea what the difference is between two. I just like the possibility of having a substitute for WOP and the idea of mixing micropearl. Your use of a top powder rub as the pearl white sounds interesting. Please expain. Thanks
post #86 of 160
Thread Starter 
This is gonna be in two parts because I am still in the process of waiting for paint to dry. First part will explain what I bought, and what it looks like, the second part later tonight will explain the whole process and my results via pictures.

This is the current formula I am using.

Base: UPW - Behr Ultra Pure White Flat

Reflective Coat: VGP - Valspar DE Translucent Iridescent Glaze Pearl no. 90627

Top Coat: CCPM - Behr Ultra Crystal Clear water based matte

So I went back to lowes to figure out where I went wrong. I think I may have had some of the mica from the VGP on my finger when I made the test sample of the white glaze. Oh well... So I picke up this VGP and it is pretty interesting stuff. As MMan Mentions it any thing with pearl is going to have a slight tint to it. This stuff is no exception. However, as it dries it changes from an off white to a light silver pearl, maybe just a tad offwhite. It is really dificult to tell with incandescent lighting. I have the second light coat drying right now.

VGP has some unique properties different from WOP it hsa a much higher concentration of mica in it as well as a finer mica particle. I believe this is why it has more of a silver finish. I beleive this will add some additional gain aswell as the offwhite grey tint will aid in contrast.

I played around a bit after the first coat and it looks very very promising. After I get the CCPM on I think it will be a winner for me. I may have to live with the slight tint.

It was easier to roll on than WOP, but still tough to get rid of the roller marks. I think I am gonna recoment a solid screen for this in the end as that will eliminate the roller issues rolling on a streched material. I also beleive that the smoother you get it the better it is going to be. I have probably 25 coats of paint on my BOC so texture is a slight issue. I plan to redo on parkland or melanie (SP). I think the lines will partially dissapear as the paint cures. We'll see. Spraying this stuff would be amazing!

Ok, so that is where I am at. I will post later tonight after finished, and give the final formula and instructions on exactly what supplies I used and technique.
post #87 of 160
Well.

My own experiments are starting to show some fruit. I have rectangle of transluscent plastic (about a yard by two feet) sprayed with the following mixture:

Base: Metallic Silver - 1 coat
Middle: White Pearlescent - 1 coat
Top: Clear Matte - 1 coat

My camera isn't here yet, so I can't send a picture, but here are my observations so far:

+ Basically, nice! It's brighter than the BO cloth I have up now. Even if I stick it onto the far corner of the screen and sit on the other side of the sofa. It's also brighter than my attempts at spraying an aproximated MMud onto a self-adhesive aluminum foil mirror, which came out similar to BO cloth. (Although I ought to give that one another try with a better mirror and a better mix.)

+ OTOH, in comparison to a similar rectangle with a white base, it has much better blacks. In fact, the blacks are slightly darker than the BO cloth. That is NICE. In essence, more gain AND better blacks. Now if that isn't cool, what is?

- There is some fall off toward the edges. It's a bit hard to tell how much because my transluscent plastic stuff tends to sort of puff out in the middle and curl in at the edges, which makes the far edge of the rectangle look worse than it would be if it were flat. Still, there is going to be some drop off, and that's that.

? That is, that's that UNLESS I can get a retroreflective layer to help me even out the edges. I've finally found a Swiss source for glass beads, and I've also found a company that specializes in "speacial" paints, including retroreflective road paints. I'm not expecting too much from this since my pj is ceiling mounted, but I'll give it a try. I'm not looking for it to add gain so much as to even out drop off.

- Finally, I need to improve my spraying technique. The silver coat went on perfectly but I was trying to get too much paint on too fast with the other two. The WOP coat has a slight droopy effect and the Clear Matte (which is very, very thin stuff) actually has some runs. When I do a final spray, I'm gonna have to take these mistakes into account - but of course, this is part of why I'm practicing. Also, I didn't want to spend the time to do multiple coats on cheap piece of plastic! (This plastic stuff is also difficult to paint.)

? I can't tell about a yellow/cream tinge. Could be there a bit. I figure I can tweak the settings on my HTPC to fix that one. Maybe I could even add a dollop of some color into the mix to neutralize the yellow - but what color would I need to neutralize a yellow? Wouldn't that be green?

Peace,

Mike
post #88 of 160
using a smaller flake gives the particles better coverage - a more even distribution within the mix. Mixing powder in to a matt medium can be tricky as mentioned. If attempting to do this, one must gently sprinkle very small amounts in to the clear while continuously stirring. Be aware that you need a protective mask for this......you don't want to breath this crap in !

A much easier method is to use mica paint/medium as mentioned above. I have discovered that most pearlescent paints use a small particle size already.
post #89 of 160
Quote:
Originally posted by 1Time
I have no idea what the difference is between two. I just like the possibility of having a substitute for WOP and the idea of mixing micropearl. Your use of a top powder rub as the pearl white sounds interesting. Please expain. Thanks
Just to clarify, jaquard's makes 3 size pearl flakes. 'Micropearl', 'Pearl White' and 'Macropearl'.

They also make a silver which I have never tried. (Rub)

----

MMan,
The hotspotting of WOP paint comes from its glossy base not from its pearlecent pigment...correct?

I have used clear coats that arent yellow and pearlecent pigments that arent yellow. I dont see why a pearlecent paint has to be yellow.

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Exciting stuff Mission, I hope you can post some pics.
post #90 of 160
Thread Starter 
Sorry I didn't get any pics up last night I wanted to let it cure for a day to see if it smoothes out a bit.

My impressions so far are positive, but with a few reservations about the cons.

Pros:

Reletively Easy
Off the shelf paints
Increased Gain
No Hotspotting
Relatively wide viewing angle.
Colors and whites seriously POP.
Improved Contrast, I found this much more improved with the VPG

Cons:

Slight yellow / silver tint to the finish using VPG
Amplifies screen imperfections.
Slight drop off towards the edges, not really noticable, but needs to be mentioned.
Slight sparklies. only noticable on imperfections.


Ok, so I am pretty happy with the results though I really wish I could find a true reflective particle paint that is white or translucent. The BIG issue I have tight now is that my sceen now has 25 or more coats of paint on it so it has alot of texture and imperfections. This is very noticable and the screen looks dimply from the reflections of the texture. If you started with a fresh screen material like parkland or Melanie, It should not be an issue.

Improvements can be made. the first being to SPRAY on the paints. I believe this would be a top notch DIY screen if sprayed on parkland. You could probabably leave out the white base if used on parkland making it just a 2 part process. only if I could find some parkland in 56" wide sheets! I may just convert to 16:9.


The Materials:

Base: UPW - Behr Ultra Pure White Flat - 1 quart $10 HD

Reflective Coat: VGP - Valspar DE Translucent Iridescent Glaze Pearl no. 90627 - 1 quart $17 Lowes

Top Coat: CCPM - Behr Ultra Crystal Clear water based matte $16 HD

Total Cost = $43


The Process:

This can be applied on any screen, but I would advise two things for the best results. 1 start with a new smooth surface. 2 - Use a solid screen material like parkland.

Application - This is applied in 3 layers: Base - Reflective - Top

1 - Apply the base making sure to get a completely white base to add the reflective coat to.

2 - Apply the VPG to the base coat after it has COMPLETELY dried. This is imperative as the VPG will add texture to the base if it is not completely dried. Texture is bad! Apply 1 to 2 light coats of the VPG makeing sure to get even and consistant coverage. The better you do this step the better your results will be. This is a glaze so it dries real slow. give it at least 10 hours to dry before applying a second coat ot the top coat.

3. - Apply the top coat CCPM, I did one medium coat making sure to work out all the roller marks and heavey spots.

4. Let completely dry and fire up the projector!


The big thing to remeber with a process like this is to take your time and don't get impatient, it will pay off in the end.

Improvements I would like to see:

1. SPRAY application. I believe this will make this an awesome cheap DIY solution for a high gain screen.

2. Find a pure white or translucent Reflective coat.

Overall I am pretty happy with this little experiment, much happier than I have been with any of the 20 or so DIY mixes and various applications I have tried. There is much more balance in the tradeoffs, pros, and cons. It is not the end all super solution to everything DIY...lol by any means, but I think it is a valid process with decent results. If you want perfection get profesional screen. If you have no painting skills, do not attempt, I think you may be dissapointed with the results.

I will post pics tonight when I get home from work. I will be using a UPW 14x16 test sample as a reference.

J. Rager
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