One thread for Niro, Mainstage, Zvox, Bose 3-2-1--one box sound?

Next post has the list.

Here are the systems I have seen mentioned on threads, there may be others:

- KEF KIT100 Instant Theatre -(2.1)- MSRP 1499 - http://www.kit100.com/
CNET Review

-Yamaha YSP Series -(1.0 get a sub for 1.1)- MSRP (?) 1299 - 799 http://www.yamaha.com/yec/
Long Audioholics Review
Long Thread in Speakers Section
CNET Review - YSP-1
CNET Review YSP-800
the YSP-3000 - http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...66&VNM=WORKING
the YSP-4000 - http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...00&VNM=WORKING

-Bose 3-2-1 -(2.1?)- MSRP $1299 - www.bose.com

-Klipsch CS-700 - (2.1 w/wireless sub) MSRP 1300? (Thanks OJGSarge)
http://www.klipsch.com/news-center/p...ons-award.aspx

-Denon S101/S301 -(2.1)- MSRP 999 & 1499 Link (Thanks Kipa)
Thread
Audioholocs Review

-Sony DAV-X1 -(2.1)- MSRP 999 Link
Thread - a little combative
-Polk Surroundbar -(1.0 + sub+ receiver)- MSRP 949
Link

-Cambridge SoundWorks SurroundWorks 200 -(1.1)- MSRP 999
Product Link
Review

-M&K MP 4512 -(1.1+receiver)- MSRP $650 - http://www.mksound.com/mp4512_pf.htm
CNET Review

-Niro 400/600/1.1Pro II/Reference/Two6.1/Two6.1-C -(1.1)- MSRP $539 to $1999 - http://www.niro1.com/en/
CNET Review
Review (600)
new 2007 Niro lineup Model #'s are: 420/620/800/1000 priced at $695/995/1195/1595 respectively.

Altec Lansing PT7031/8051 MSRP $600-ish - (thanks gdseeker)
User's review
PT7031
PT8051

Philips HTS8100 -(1.0) MSRP ??? (Thanks Regularguy)
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces-2...tem-213478.php

-Philips HTS6600 -(2.1) MSRP 599 (Thanks Regularguy)
IHT/NY Times article
Philips Soundbar HTS8100 - Thread 1 Thread 2 - Review by Davyo (thanks)

Panasonic SC-PTX7 - (2.1 + 80 GB drive) MSRP of $799.95
Audioholics Article

-Samsung HT-X200 -(2.1)- MSRP $500 (?) HDMI Out/upconverting DVD
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/d...cd=HT-X200/XAA
A Thread on the old model

-JVC EX-A1 -(2.1)- MSRP ? $450 - www.jvc.com (Thanks Hoppy)
CNET Review

-Sharp SD-SP10 -(1.1)- MSRP $399 (thanks Chauncey)
Dolby Virtual Speaker Device w/"Audistry" options (whatever those are)
http://www.sharpusa.com/products/Mod...8,1738,00.html
CNET Review

-Binaura B102AC -(1.1)- MSRP 399? http://www.binaura.com/products/products.htm
A thread

-Sherwood VR600, VR670, VR 700 -(2.1)- MSRP 249 - 599
http://www.sherwoodusa.com/am_cat_hts.html

-Soundmatters Mainstage/Mainstage HD/Fullstage -(1.0/1.1)- MSRP $199 - $599 - www.soundmatters.com
Review
Review
Review
AVS Member Pinkoos Review

-ZVox 315 -(1.0 or +sub)- MSRP $199 - http://www.zvoxaudio.com/
CNET Review

In the alternative, you could get a receiver that supports Dolby Virtual Speaker (DVS), and add a pair of speakers + a sub of your choice.


Receivers w/ DVS

-Kenwood VRS-7200
-Harmon Kardon AVRs - almost their entire line of surround receivers after a certain vintage, I think the x35 series (not the stereo receivers though)
-Denon seen some mention that some denon receivers have DVS. No further details.

Updates
*EDIT 8/13/05- I ordered the Binaura. The price was right (got it on sale).
EDIT 1/11/06 - added Polk Surroundbar. Needs a receiver + sub, like the M&K.
EDIT 2/6/06 - added cnet review of ysp-800.
EDIT 4/2/06 - Added somethings on the option to go with a receiver and separate speakers/sub(s). I'd strongly consider going this way, as you get a lot more inputs and the upgrade path is better. (unless you want/need 1.1 not 2.1, like me)
EDIT 5/17/06 - added the Samsung.
EDIT 7/18/06 - having problems with the Binaura. Faulty electronics.
EDIT 7/28/06 - received the YSP-800. Will review later in this thread once its been tried. Added Sharp product.
EDIT 12/12/06 - - added the Philips HTS devices. Thanks Regularguy. Added another link for the Sharp
EDIT 2/7/07 - Added the Klipsch
EDIT 6/26/07 - Added Panasonic, newer Philips, Altec Lansing (sorry no link) - - I am not really following these devices anymore - - feel free to PM me if you want me to add something to the list, or I check in occasionally and may do a few updates here and there.

Happy to elaborate. Its strictly a budget / requirements perspective. I am planning to outfit a den (14 x 20 x 14) with high ceilings. I am going to get the flagship Sony direct view tv (KD-34XBR960) which is taking up most of my budget. So I am really only looking at Soundmatters and the Zvox, plus a budget sub. We may do something more elaborate with the audio when we finish the basement in the next year or two.

The den adjoins the kitchen and is our primary living and entertainment space. Thus, I want the machine to be able to play music - either streamed in via an apple airport express (or similar) or maybe via HTPC.

So, my concern with the Zvox is it has only two mini-jack inputs, and it would use one to connect to the sub (can't argue with the price though). This would mean I'd have to run the music through the tv which I don't really want to do. The Mainstage (&HD) has four inputs (composite audio, minijack, toslink and digital coax), and a dedicated port for the sub.

I read the Cnet review which indicated the Zvox sounds better than the original mainstage. But it seemed to me that at least a part of the rational was that the Zvox was the more powerful unit. Presumably the Mainstage HD which is basically, in theory going to be a louder Mainstage will answer that concern. Also, on the original Mainstage faq, it only recomends the machine for rooms that are about 1800 cubic sq ft. My ceilings are high (albeit sloping), so I was hoping that the more powerful HD version might address that concern.

There were a few nitpicks in the original Mainstage reviews which probably would have bothered me - the blinking standby light, and the inabilty to tell if it is in "surround" or stereo mode. I understand these are being addressed in the next version. I'll let you know when I get one. I started looking at this in December, it was then expected for the 1st of the year. It was delayed to "early spring". I sent a message to complain, was told they delayed to slightly tweak the features and the remote, and it would be "worth the wait". I was given a best guess of no later than April 15th. In a subsequent PR e-mail I was given hope that it might be April 1st. We'll see. I upped the budget for the HD. If it doesn't sound good, I may return it and start to look at the low end Niro's.

But this is my rationale and the parameters I am working in. Hope it helps. If budget were no object, I'd get that yamaha.

Added a couple of links yamaha links to my summary post. Will add Hopps JVC find to the list as well later.

After writing all that out, I am giving myself some second thoughts. My concern is tied to inputs. The tv I want will take two (one optical and one analog - bad design IMHO but ever tech has trade offs). I would want to be able hook up a few other devices -- ps2; a streaming music device; dvd player; maybe a dvr. Not all of these necessarily need an optical input, and I could get a switch or splitter. But it has me thinking about devices with more optical inputs. Maybe the Zvox has it right after all.

Well the Zvox only uses a mini-jack (presumably stereo) input. Which means it doesn't bother with anything optical. So a simple splitter would cure some of the input deficiencies, and I could just plug all my toys into the tv (except maybe music) and have it pass the audio to the Zvox. The Zvox would do whatever it does - - which might not be as "tricky" as some of the other systems (sound algorythms, dolby, etc) - but reportedly still sounds pretty okay.

Sometimes simpler is better.

I think I may check out the ZVOX. It is simple and hopefully sound good. I am going to connect cable box (CableVision HD / NJ) and DVD player (something progressive and decent) to the TV (Syntax 32") and then send the signal to the ZVOX. Simple and I guess should work well and will allow me to use the other input for the sub (out of TV to Input 1 / Sub for Input 2)

I guess I will need a mini to RCA to connect a sub? Does anyone know?

Rippey

Good deal. Let us know how it works out.

Based on their website -

Two connecting cords supplied: 1) Mini-jack stereo to mini-jack stereo (for use portable CD players, clock radios, PCs...anything with a headphone jack). 2) Mini-jack stereo to twin RCA jacks

- - I have often heard that people connect their subs with a single RCA. Maybe the mini-jack cord would work - - otherwise you might have a trip to radio shack. I'd ask their customer service.

Just listened to the ZVOX at Best Buy. Possibly the source material or the store configuration was at fault - but I thought that the ZVOX sounded a little weak - especially for the bass. Also, I fooled around with the Phase Cue and didn't notice much effect.

I'm currently thinking that the Onkyo 770 HTIB is the better bet for about $200 more. Just have to deal with the additional clutter that I avoided with the ZVOX!

Any thoughts?

Everything I have read indicates these devices are almost all inferior to any system where you run the wires and place the speakers. No arguement there.

In terms of the Zvox - you can use it with a sub if you wish. True for many of these devices.

Where was the BB that you were able to demo it? I heard it was available in certain regions at BB but never heard where specifically. I'd love to hear one sometime.

I have updated the list above (post #3) to include the Cambridge Surroundworks which I just noticed. Also, in the past few months I had added the Binura and the Sony products as well. There are a ton of these products coming out for people with high WAF / space considerations.

Standard disclaimer - none will be better than a wired system with 5+ speakers.

I have been in the market for a "high end" HTIB for a couple months now. I've almost pulled the trigger a couple times, but it seems that everytime I get ready, I hear about a new, better unit being produced. Right now, the top of my list is the KEF KIT100. Fantastic sound - a big improvement in stereo playback over my current NIRO 1.1 Pro, which is a great unit for movies (no complaints at all), but who's stereo playback leaves a lot to be desired.

Anyway, I just happened upon Denon's 2 new high end HTIB packages. Check out the link below. I haven't found a place to hear them yet, but the specs look very good. Denon's speakers, while not audiophile grade continue to improve with every iteration. If the speakers turn out to be good, these units offer a lot.

See link in below post (have to get to 5 entries before I can post the link).

Kipa

Bump - Post #4

Bump post #5.

Kipa

Here's the link to the new Denon S 101 and S301 units.

Kipa

http://blog.denon.com/s301_101/archi...ease.html#more

Finally bought something. I went to Cambridge Soundworks retail store by me. Listened to their surroundworks. I liked it but wasn't sure about the $1k price. It says its sound processor is from Binaura. So I took another look at that, and noticed it was on sale from the .com arm of a large blue and yellow electronics retailer (part of their wednesday sale, and now sold out). So I bought it. Should be here in a week or so.

The footprint is very similar to the Cambridge product - although much less powerful, and no dvd player (which I didn't need). All I am looking for is something to clean up the dialog from my lowly 27" tv, and add a little thump. The price was right. If I don't like it I am only out the shipping.

I'll post a detailed review when I get a chance to test it out.

Just wondering if you had a chance to audition NIRO's Reference system; I just got this as a secondary home theater for my den, and it just blew me away. I had my doubts about re-creating 5.1 with essentially smoke and mirrors, but the technology is definitely there, and the crispness of the sound really impressed me. I kind of prefer that "transparent and clear" type of sound to the "bright and boomy" type anyway, so this was perfect for me.

It's their top of the line at $1000+ and no DVD player, but I think it's worth every penny; it sounds high-end. Lucky thing I had an older DVD player already connected to the TV. The only use it was getting was my wife's exercise DVDs.

Hey, what about the M&K MP-4512 ?

Howimportant is to have HDMI connection in my home theater.? I recently bought a Panasonic 42 PX50U , which has HDMI connection so I want to make sure I get the best from my TV. For my apartment, the only system that "fits" is a 2.1 or 1.1, so basically a system with true rear speakers is out of the picture.

I appreciate any help!

What about it? There is a link to a review in post #3. If memory serves, its a single box with multiple speakers in it, that needs a receiver to drive it. Haven't seen anyone really talk about it. Might be a good fit for someone who already has a receiver.

What's your budget?

From what I have seen - the KEF gets the most kudos for a pure audio/musical perspective - the yamaha has the most advanced wizardry (when paired with a sub), the Niro is a solid performer.

The rest are more price competitive, with respective tradeoffs. I bought the binaura. It was pricing that sealed it. I'll review it next weekend when I get home.


Some future proofing in it. I'd say its very important for a display device to have a HDCP compliant connection (either HDMI of a compliant variation of DVI) if you want to use BR or HD-DVD media. I think any audio digital input is fine for a receiver (Toslink or dig. coax), unless you want it to do video switching.

Budget is important right now. It it were for me, I would have bought the DENON S-301, since the specifications seem to suit me. But, I am trying to spend less than $1000.

Thanks for answering so soon. I'll list my needs so anyone interested can help me in my decision:

1) 1 or 2 speaker system + Subwoofer
2) HDMI output
3) Medium to excellent sound quality
4) May or may not include DVD and/or Receiver

So, lets all forget about budget for a moment and if there are any products that meets my list please feel free to post them!!

#2 is the tricky one. I think you pointed out on this thread or another, that the Sony has HDMI. I can't think of another one. But there are tons of these coming out, might be good to wait a few weeks until after CEDIA (early September).

You might get there with that M&K paired with a receiver & sub. I am not sure what the price points are for receivers to have HDMI ports.

Take #2 out, and the higher end Niro line looks compelling for you at your price point.

For #3 - what is your movies to music %'s? (if its 90/10 movies, the yamaha is available at solid discounts from msrp - close to your budget, I'd grab that and the dayton sub)

I've mentioned this over in the Binaura thread, but I thought I would jump in here and discuss it as well.

I currently own the ZVOX Audio 315 Sound Console coupled with an external Yamaha sub and have been please with the system. However, I have a 15x15x8 room and am pushing the ZVOX's three main speakers to their limit on DD5.1 sourced films.

In any event, I also went ahead and purchased the same system you did - the Bianura. I'm hoping it is a bit more powerful than the ZVOX setup. I plan on evaluating both. I'll report back here with my findings.

That being said, I would still recommend the ZVOX. It is easy to use, unique, and sounds very good considering the price.

For those that are interested, I have a brief guide to setting up the ZVOX 315 using a SPL meter on my website


Mark

Unpacking

Well, the Binaura arrived last week while I was away. Came in a good size box, and UPS didn't treat it too bad. Inside the box, it was packaged very intelligently. Everything was secure and had a slot in the styrofoam. There is a large quick set up guide on a piece of posterboard that is the size of the top of the box. Its in full color, ans shows the setup in 3 easy steps.

The unit consists of one speaker with three drivers, plus a subwoofer which has the controller unit in it, and all the ports.

The nice thing about it is that everything is labeled, including all the major wires. In the box there are all the unit specific cables (power, speaker wire) plus an composite RCA pair, plus an audio coaxial. In addition to the wires there is a remote infrared sensor incase (like my set up) the subwoofer unit is hidden away. I wouldn't have bought the product without that.

In addition to these items, there was hardware to wall mount the speaker unit if you so desire.

On the back of the subwoofer unit there are two digital coax ports, a digital toslink port, and at least one RCA port (can't remember if there are two). The unit will decode DTS and Dolby (Digital and Pro-Logic - - I think). DTS was nice, as the Mainstage which I had strongly considered doesn't do that.

The environs

We set thus up in our den. It is a 14 x 20 room, with the back open in to the kitchen. The ceiling is vaulted from 9 feet to approximately 14 feet. So the cubic feet is huge. The (glamorous 27") TV is in a corner placement on a tv stand (not an armoire) which is katty-cornered (sp?). With a baby on the way, and since this is a high traffic / high profile location in the house it was essential that anything place in this room be unobtrosive. The speaker unit is roughly 14"x6"x5" (LxWxH) and doesn't look out of place on the tv. There are little rubber feet that can be attached (they nicely sent 5, incase you lose one) - but we haven't bothered to attached them yet. We placed the subwoofer unit behind the tv and snaked the remote sensor into our tv stand where it sits unobtrusively. The subwoofer unit looks like a desktop PC tower (a whisper thinner). It has a volume knob on it, and a small display. I can't see any of those anymore, so can't comment much more on that.

How does it sound

My expectations here are pretty minimal and I don't have golden ears. I wanted something that would add a little thump to the movies. We had also had situations where we had been pushing up the volume while watching a movie to hear the dialog better. One of the things that was appealing was that the remote had a general volume control, a bass level control, and center channel control. This is pretty nice, and it worked well in the testing. While I am talking about the remote, its pretty simple device. The three types of volume controls, a mute button, a stereo mode button, power (standby) and three mode buttons that are quick to the sources.

With those expectations, I can say it performs pretty well. The subwoofer isn't a powerhouse, but it can pack a bit of a punch. I used the LFE Demo disc that had been circulating on the builder threads, and could definitely get some level of impact when watching various scenes from Master & Commander, Jurasic Park, and Nemo.

I was curious how the surround elements would perform. I'd say its closer to 3.1 than 5.1. Might work better in a less open layout. I watched Blackhawk Down (Superbit), and could definitely track the sound when a chopper moved from the right side of the screen to the left. But nothing sounded particularly like it came from behind us. I had, years ago, seen BHD at a friends place, and I remembered the sound of the blades having more of an encircling sound. Wasn't the case with the Binaura.

I haven't really cranked it too much, but while my wife was out of the house I turned it up louder than I'd like it to be, and it didn't distort too bad. Haven't tried it with music yet, though I liked the bass I could hear in BHD when Elvis's "suspicious minds" was played in the background.

Conclusion
Well, it helped that we got this on sale. It is no substitute for a proper, 5 speaker set up. But it is definitely better than nothing, and due to the heavy WAF requirements, it performs pretty well. Given the cubic feet, the layout and the open floorplan, I don't know that spending more would be a worthwhile investment. Besides, the plan is to save cash for eventually finishing the basement where a proper system can be put in. So, for the price, I am happy. Not for everyone, but a decent niche solution.

Postscript - - my unit flaked out after just under a year. Other people have noted other problems with the dolby implimentation. Read this thread and the other one noted in post #3.

Thanks for the review. I should receive mine this week. I plan on comparing it to the ZVOX Audio 315 Sound Console with and external sub.

BTW, my experience with the ZVOX would suggest that a single unit surround console's performance is pretty much on par with yours (for this price point of course).

Could you answer a question for me though? I noticed that the Binarua manual sates that the settings for bass and center gain will be set back to default when the TV input is selected. Is this true and did you find yourself adjsuting the bass/center gain frequently? I ask because I am sure my wife will not want to mess around with such things simply to watch teevee

Thanks,
Mark

Sorry, not sure, haven't used the tv setting yet. Our current tv doesn't have audio out - so I will be using this for dvd, ps2, and maybe some digital audio (eventually). We don't even have a cable box at this point. We'll eventually upgrade the tv, and will look for audio out at that point. Since I have only used it twice, I have tinkered with the center and bass settings each time. Eventually I'd rather be able to set it and forget it. That said, if it defaults to standard settings they aren't too bad. I was definitely upping the bass, but that was probably more because it was a new toy than a scientific approach.

I'll typically try to set the bass and speaker console to 75dB respectively using a SPL meter. I am hoping that once I adjust this, I won't have to tinker with it again.

Mark

Dave,

How are you liking the Binaura? I just received mine today and wil set it up tomorrow evening.

I must admit, the construction is quite nice for the price we paid. I wasn't expecting it to be as sturdy as it seems to be. It looks quite nice as well.

Mark