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HOW-TO: Calibrating Display to Match HTPC Output - Page 6

post #151 of 486
Ok...so after you read my last post you'll realize I'm a moron. Now I understand what the process was. You had to adjust contrast/brightness to make the "16" bar the blackest the display would show (RGB: 0-0-0) and the 235 bar the whitest (RGB: 255-255-255). After readjusting I have no more greys, etc etc...someone just reply to make sure I did this write and didn't re-embarass myself...hehe

Thanks
post #152 of 486
You got it.
post #153 of 486
Thread Starter 
Manchild,

What kind of display do you have? If you are on a digital display like a DLP, be sure to read (or re-read if you've read it already) the section in my original post about setting contrast (white level) and checking levels with Finding Nemo to verify -- I had trouble when I tried to set the "brightest white" my DLP is capable of at 235.
post #154 of 486
Quote:


Originally posted by Manchild
To whomever it may concern:

Alright...I got 3no's fabulous test patterns, loaded em up into Zoom Player with VMR9...print screened...checked in Photoshop and both the "16" bar had RGB of 16-16-16 and the white pattern had a 235 of 235-235-235. So I suppose this implies that the brightness/contrast settings in my zoom player are set appropriately. However, whenever I watch material in the DVD player it still looks washed out or "grey." The main thing that's noticeable are the "black" letterboxes that stand out.

Did I miss a step or am I doing something wrong here? It seems like no matter what I do I can't get this thing to display VMR9 properly...oh lord please save me...thanks...hehe

OK, you did this exactly right. Zoomplayer and or your video card controls are set right. Now you need to adjust your DISPLAY device (projector, TV, monitor, whatever) using that test video so that you can just not see level 16, and you can see at least 235, preferably closer to 255. Then your picture should look as you expect.
post #155 of 486
Manchild-

gazzagazza is correct, you had it right the first time -- leave your ZP settings on neutral.

Also, if you haven't already done so, check the "PC/DVD" setting on your display device. It may be called something else, but it will have a similar name. It needs to be in the non-PC position.

And whatever else you do, please don't ask what the "right" level is for the brightest white you should be able to distinguish
post #156 of 486
Thanks for the help everyone.

gaaz: I figured I had to change the display's controls for brightness/contrast. The problem is that I use the TV as a straight DVI input from my video card (It's a Sharp 30" LCD 1280x768) bypassing the little AVC or whatever it's called box altogether. However, when bypassing the box you have no ability to control the bright/contrast of the monitor. Therefore I just decided to continue changing the Zoom Player Color Controls to make the "16" blackest and "235" the...well...white...hehe...

I suppose I could leave the Zoom Player settings neutral and then adjust the brightness/contrast with the ATI control panel, but then the print screen trick doesn't seem to work so well so really fine tune the display.
post #157 of 486
So I have renderless properly calibrated with 16 and 235. DVD's look fine.

Whqat are the correct levels for HDTV?


Joel
post #158 of 486
3no, thanks for the test videos.

I'm using Overlay in zoomplayer. I'm trying to use your patterns to set brightness/contrast on my Panny AE700 projector.

I cant seem to get values 16 for RGB when pasting the image from the player. I get 16 for Red 0 Green 16 Blue. I move the color picker all over the image and it remains the same. R 16 G 0 B16.

I read somewhere that overlay needs to be turned up in brightness in the software/videocard settings to display BTB?

I even turn up the brightness in powerdvd, windvd and get the same values for the pasted image in paint/photoshop.
post #159 of 486
You can't take screenshots of overlay, you're seening 16016 because that's the color that overlay replaces. Overlay works by the app drawing a color, and then the video card replacing that with video in hardware.
post #160 of 486
Quote:


You can't take screenshots of overlay, you're seening 16016 because that's the color that overlay replaces. Overlay works by the app drawing a color, and then the video card replacing that with video in hardware.

Ok that makes sense. So any idea how to properly set up a display using Overlay with 3no patterns?

I don't think my overlay is passing BTB and WTW.
post #161 of 486
The best way I know of, it to calibrate your display with VMR9 or static image patterns, and then visually adjust Overlay to match.
post #162 of 486
Quote:


Originally posted by Tukkis
I don't think my overlay is passing BTB and WTW.

It isn't. Any reason you can't switch to VMR9?
post #163 of 486
Quote:


It isn't. Any reason you can't switch to VMR9?

I dont think my HTPC is powerful enough.

AMD XP1800
768mb DDR ram
Radeon 9250 128mb
post #164 of 486
Quote:


Originally posted by Tukkis
I don't think my HTPC is powerful enough.

I don't know AMD so can't really comment, maybe someone else can. You could give it a try, particularly if you don't use ffdshow.
post #165 of 486
Hey i have a tx100 hitachi, which has color adjustments for gain/offset, what are the differences???, and when calibrating with the philips generator, what should i be looking out for when adjusting these two settings???,

thanks in advice
post #166 of 486
Tukkis, only thing you can do is give VMR9 a shot and hope you don't get dropped frames or stutter.

But, I do recall having major problems with VMR9 on a P4-3.2GHz laptop with a Radeon 9000 video chip builtin - but it may have been a driver issue.

godisi, have you tried asking in one of the Digital Projector forums? But, at the very least, you can verify that you are getting black at 16,16,16 and reference white at 235,235,235 using the techniques discussed in this thread. At least that should give you reasonable confidence that your projector is getting reference levels from your PC.
post #167 of 486
I tried VMR9 windowless in zoom player and it doesn't drop frames but it gives me the usual tearing.

Just quickly as it's been awhile since I researched VMR, is tearing caused by a slow video card, CPU/ram or soemthing else?
post #168 of 486
Thread Starter 
Try Zoom Player version 4.50, with VMR9 Renderless. There is also an "enable exclusive Renderless mode" check box somewhere in the options.
post #169 of 486
Thread Starter 
UPDATE: ADDED 6/23/05


An easy way to check greyscale and color temperature, if you are using component cables, is to unplug the red/blue cables, leaving only the green luminance. This will produce a b/w image of whatever you are viewing. This may give you a better view of how your greyscale looks, and if there are any problems (discolorations from off-temps, etc). I myself used this technique recently to touch up my three component inputs (HD cable, Xbox, and STB DVD player).
post #170 of 486
Hi guys,

Thanks for this great information, and a big thanks to both cyberbri for his guide and 3no for his excellent video calibration tool! I have just tried this out myself, but I can't quite lock on to the correct values. I am using ThaterTek 2.1.1, and if I set the brightness to -1, I get values of 18-18-18, and then if I go to the very next increment down (-2), I get values of 15-15-15, with no way to fine tune to 16-16-16. Is there another place that I can go to fine tune to 16-16-16, or will I need to compromise to one of the other values? If so, I assume that I would be better off going with 15-15-15 and then simply adjusting the dispaly's controls for proper black level, right?
post #171 of 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

if I set the brightness to -1, I get values of 18-18-18, and then if I go to the very next increment down (-2), I get values of 15-15-15, with no way to fine tune to 16-16-16. Is there another place that I can go to fine tune to 16-16-16, or will I need to compromise to one of the other values? If so, I assume that I would be better off going with 15-15-15 and then simply adjusting the dispaly's controls for proper black level, right?

The objective is to transfer picture information (particularly luminance) from the DVD to the display device without compression (loss of information) or expansion (banding artifacts), then have the display device map values to the appropriate light intensity. So... if you have to choose, you are better off with 15,15,15. Check for interaction with contrast, of course.
post #172 of 486
Thanks, 3no, that's what I figured. The best I could get is 15-15-15 and 236-236-236, so that's what I went with and then adjusted my display(s). Everything looks great! Thanks again!
post #173 of 486
Thanks to everybody who has contibuted to the goal of perfection, we are a rare breed.

I have a stupid question, I have downloaded 3no's latest offering but when I go to play it the menu shows up but when I go pick a scene it shows a blank screen then I can see the ZP splash screen then the index again. Is the file corrupt or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance!


peace
post #174 of 486
I'm not sure what video card you're using but you might want to try re-installing your video drivers. A couple days/weeks back, I was having screwy levels (like 6-8-6 for "black), I reinstalled my video drivers and I'm back to perfect 16-16-16.
post #175 of 486
Nope didn't work, even tried downloading it again with no luck. It is v2.0 I'm having probs with.


peace
post #176 of 486
3no's patterns sound great. I have Avia and DVE but would like to give 3no's patterns a try.

However - I do not have an HTPC, and am just using a Bravo D1 DVI output.

Is there a way for me to burn 3no's patterns to a DVD, and if so, how? I assume this is ok for my own use but if not please let me know.
post #177 of 486
Quote:
Is there a way for me to burn 3no's patterns to a DVD, and if so, how? I assume this is ok for my own use but if not please let me know.

Last time I checked I think the files were already in proper VIDEO_TS/AUDIO_TS folders. This means you should be able to just burn them in Nero using DVD Video template
post #178 of 486
Bob, you might want to check your levels with the gray scale patterns (the horizontal bars one with the grayscale gradient) found in DVE just to be sure there are no skipped gradients. For example, it should be 16-16-16,17-17-17, 18-18-18, etc. with no gaps. However, the resolution you choose may cause some to be skipped - ie. 100-100-100,111-111-112,112-112-112,etc. which is likely a result of the scaling algorithm used - guess you shouldn't worry about those. Okay, I admit, that's being anal.

It's odd yours starts at 15-15-15. Is that with FFDShow? NVIDIA Drivers? Also, what resolution? At 1280x720 on my 6800GT with the 67.66, 71.89, and 72.14 drivers, I get perfect tracking with grayscale in DVE and 3no's patterns. However, with a version of TheaterTek before 2.1.1, the grayscale isn't perfect smooth - a scaling artifact was introduced that didn't make grayscale perfect in the grayscale patterns. Man, are there a lot of variables or what? All I know is that with TheaterTek 2.1 on my 6800GT, I get perfect levels tracking as long as all brightness/contrast/saturation settings are left alone at zero.

I assume you're using VMR9, since Overlay doesn't really let you take a screenshot.

lovingdvd, it shouldn't be any problem burning 3no's pattern to a DVD. Nero Burning Rom should do it easily in DVD-Video mode. The only issue I can see is that you have no way of knowing if you are getting exactly 16-16-16 for reference black and 235-235-235 for reference white on an upscaling DVD player like your D1. But you can get close, I hope.
post #179 of 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tukkis View Post

Last time I checked I think the files were already in proper VIDEO_TS/AUDIO_TS folders. This means you should be able to just burn them in Nero using DVD Video template

I'm not sure I did this right. Here's a quick summary. I launched Nero 6 Express and choose the option to create a DVD based on "DVD-Video Files". It says to use this option to create high quality DVD-Video from DVD-Video structures on the hard drive.

On the next screen it told me to add the video files into the VIDEO_TS folder it created, so I dragged all the files from the zip into that folder. I then burned it and it said it was successful.

Since I'm not at home where my DVD layer is, I wanted to try and verify the patterns were on the DVD correctly. So I put the burned DVD back into my PC and it asked me whether I wanted to play it using Media Player or RealPlayer.

I first chose Media Player and it came up with an error that said it couldn't play the DVD and to check my settings in Control Panel/Display. Then I tried again using RealPlayer and it just sat there and would not play.

Does that sound like what you would expect, or did something not work with my burn process?

When I look at my burned DVD directory structure it shows two top level folders - AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS. The audio_ts folder is empty, and the video_ts has the various .bup, .ifo and .vob files.

Should that be the case where it just copies these files verbatium, or was it suppose to use those files to dynamically expand and write out other files?

Thanks!
post #180 of 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxleung View Post

lovingdvd, it shouldn't be any problem burning 3no's pattern to a DVD. Nero Burning Rom should do it easily in DVD-Video mode. The only issue I can see is that you have no way of knowing if you are getting exactly 16-16-16 for reference black and 235-235-235 for reference white on an upscaling DVD player like your D1. But you can get close, I hope.

My Sharp 10K has a setting for DVI PC and DVI Video. I always get these confused. Which input corresponds to 16/235 levels and which corresponds to 0/255? What do you think my Motorola comcast DTC6412 STB uses?

Thanks.
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