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AE700 - lamp brightness changing slow flicker...AE700 owners please read... - Page 3  

post #61 of 101
Well I ain't standing for the flicker anymore.

I am taking the projector tomorrow morning at 9am to the service centre.

So when I have it fixed I will be able to tell all you guys what causes the flickering issue.

My lamp is at 495 hours and the guy said he would replace the lamp for free (if thats the cause) because its under 500 hours. :)

Will keep updating this thread as I hear news.
post #62 of 101
I got my Monster HT700 power center yesterday, and so far flicker is a thing of the past. I'm happy, but I'm anxiously waiting to hear what Panny has to say. Be sure to give us an update aurz!
post #63 of 101
Thread Starter 
i just ordered the Monster HT200 for mine, we'll see if it helps. I somewhat doubt it. My flickering has returned. :(

Aurz, please keep us posted.
post #64 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by muadib
I got my Monster HT700 power center yesterday, and so far flicker is a thing of the past. I'm happy, but I'm anxiously waiting to hear what Panny has to say. Be sure to give us an update aurz!
So you're suggesting that clean power is the key to the flickering?

Gosh I'd love to open this thing and scope the supply filter caps.
To wimpy until the warrenty runs out.

ted
post #65 of 101
Just posted in main thread as well:

Last night I had the projector on for a good 3 or 4 hours. I noticed no flickering in picture brightness. I happened to check the IRIS in the service menu and all was OK and Green.

The other day when I was expierencing flickering, the Iris was OK but Red.....these may be tied together somehow...
post #66 of 101
Thread Starter 
huh, maybe you're on to something

mine is driving me nuts, if the Monster HT200 doesn't fix my problem, i'm calling panasonic next week :(

god i hope they don't screw up my panel convergence

too bad i'm over 500 hours :(
post #67 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by tvted
So you're suggesting that clean power is the key to the flickering?

Gosh I'd love to open this thing and scope the supply filter caps.
To wimpy until the warrenty runs out.

ted
Serveral have gotten the Monster HT200, and it worked for them, so I thought for the money, I'd try it. I've added about 15 hours since getting the HT700, (I couldn't find the HT200 locally.) and so far so good. I agree with you though, it's gotta be marginal caps, but the fact that
the problem clears with the HT200, means Panny may not find a problem. I guess we'll see what happens with aurz.
post #68 of 101
As I am/was considering buying the ae700 I have been following this thread with interest. However there is one issue which doesn't seem clear to me.
While it seems that several people have solved the flicker problem by cleaning up the power supply, there has also been mention of a noticable dimming at the same time or before the flickering appeared. Has this dimming been improved by the power supply fix or is this a separate issue?

If it is separate then this is also a worry for a potential buyer if the brightness is going to suddenly drop off after 400-500 hours. It has been mentioned that the lamps are a different type than the majority of projectors. Has anyone found out anything more about this?

:confused:
post #69 of 101
The brightness will drop some after 50-100 hours, that's normal. I think the brightness loss you mean is part of the flicker problem. Brightness decreases, then increases over and over. Someone in an earlier post compared it to a candle flame, or a flicker. The brightness level returned to normal after I and others started using the HT200/HT700.
post #70 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by muadib
Serveral have gotten the Monster HT200, and it worked for them, so I thought for the money, I'd try it. I've added about 15 hours since getting the HT700, (I couldn't find the HT200 locally.) and so far so good. I agree with you though, it's gotta be marginal caps, but the fact that
the problem clears with the HT200, means Panny may not find a problem. I guess we'll see what happens with aurz.
I too look forward to aurz's response.

I *do* hate the thought of giving Monster any of my not too hard earned cash.

If it is a supply problem Panasonic should be able to rectify (no pun - well ok a little) the problem.

Perhaps you and I should look at this more closely - I'll bring my scope. :D

ted
post #71 of 101
Well I dropped it off yesterday and explained the problem - the tech said it most likely sounds like the ballist (spelling?) board...

If a power filter does fix it - I bet the service shop has real clean power and they won't see the problem - if that happens - I'll just demand him to replace everything power related in the unit. :P

Interesting note: Before I took it in I fired it up once more and noticed if you put the lamp mode to HIGH - it doesn't do the flickering!

I can't use this setting though - way too loud in ceiling mode.
post #72 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by aurz
Well I dropped it off yesterday and explained the problem - the tech said it most likely sounds like the ballist (spelling?) board...

If a power filter does fix it - I bet the service shop has real clean power and they won't see the problem - if that happens - I'll just demand him to replace everything power related in the unit. :P

Interesting note: Before I took it in I fired it up once more and noticed if you put the lamp mode to HIGH - it doesn't do the flickering!

I can't use this setting though - way too loud in ceiling mode.
The "ballast board" provides the drive voltage regulation for the metal halide lamp and the ballast.

Here's a link or two if anyone is interested in some backgtound.

You mention HIGH mode masking the problem.
Here's some speculative thought:
Ever tried to dim a fluorescent lamp? - special ballasts are needed and its not very efficient. Now the UHP bulb ballast (which is needed for gas-discharge lamps) I'm sure would be solid state, but I bet, because the arc of the lamp is now not functioning efficiently, then flicker becomes noticeable as the drive current lowers and perhaps itself fluctuates - it would be the job of the "ballast board to keep the drive current/voltage regulated.

I might be blowing smoke, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. ;)

Glad to hear you might be getting this matter resolved.
Tell em to give you a new bulb too, as pulsing the arc constantly might not be healthy. Even if it doesn't matter, at the very least you should be compensated for the psychological strain this has caused.

Right?:D

ted
post #73 of 101
Thread Starter 
for the record, high lamp mode does not fix the problem

that's all i run mine in

please let us know what happens
post #74 of 101
Has anyone determined if the problem is related to ceiling vs shelf mounting? When I clean my filter and have to move the PJ, I find the weight at the bottom end of the unit, as though it is built for table mounting and having it upside-down would have gravity working against the parts.

Just a thought. Please refute it.


PF
post #75 of 101
I also have flickering in high lamp mode. The sudden dimming I experienced preceded its initial onset by 1-2 hours or so, at 155 hours. I've considered the possibility that, seperately and coincidentally, my lamp has simply passed the "honeymoon" stage, and is showing the dimming that seems to be the expected norm after 50-100 hours. The sudden drop is what has thrown me, and that, along with the nearly immediate arrival of the flicker, makes me suspect other causes. I'd sure like to see the degree of normal dimming one could expect after the breaking-in, and to know if what I'm seeing is comparable. The dimming I've experienced does not quite make the image unwatchable, but if I'd known to expect this degree, I'd have designed my throw distance/screen size on a smaller scale. ANY dimmer, really, and it would qualify as unwatchable to me.

Also, I should emphasize that my flickering problem ONLY has occurred during dark scenes, and, interestingly, only when when the shot is fully dim, and not when one or two bright features are present, even small ones. I've paid close attention, and this is an unfailing pattern when the flicker is occurring. "Miller's Crossing" seems to have presented the worst-case scenario.

KongFan
post #76 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by pinkfreud55
Has anyone determined if the problem is related to ceiling vs shelf mounting? When I clean my filter and have to move the PJ, I find the weight at the bottom end of the unit, as though it is built for table mounting and having it upside-down would have gravity working against the parts.

Just a thought. Please refute it.PF
Refute gravity? Ain't trying that.;)
However I wish to introduce Thermodynamics.:p

Heat rises - likely against the electronics when the unit is ceiling mounted. Note that the fan is programmed to work harder in this mode. This suggests to me it is less efficient at dealing with heat in this orientation. As far as impacting on the electronics - only thing that I can think of that *might* be an issue is marginal electrolytic caps which might be being used in the regulator boards - power supply, ballast board.

ted
post #77 of 101
Thread Starter 
flicker happens for me no matter what

i can have it sitting on the windows desktop and see it

i can even turn it to the service menu and see it

doesn't matter, so i think it's unrelated to source material

looking forward to hearing what Aurz has to say...
post #78 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by KongFan
Also, I should emphasize that my flickering problem ONLY has occurred during dark scenes, and, interestingly, only when when the shot is fully dim, and not when one or two bright features are present, even small ones. I've paid close attention, and this is an unfailing pattern when the flicker is occurring. "Miller's Crossing" seems to have presented the worst-case scenario.

KongFan
It is likely that flickering would be more apparent in dark scenes where your eyes would be more sensitive to small changes in light output.

However, dark scenes would also be where the Iris would be more active.
Try watching scenes that you believe will make the flickering visible and turn off the sound - see if you can hear the Iris moving or the bulb arcing.

Do you run mainly in LOW bulb?
Do you use your PJ more than 5 hrs daily?

Admittedly we are a rarefied bunch of fanatics around here, and I'm lucky enough not to have encountered this problem *yet*, but I do find it a little odd that so many are complaining of similar issues at the same point in the life of the unit.

ted
post #79 of 101
Thread Starter 
tvted, pm sent
post #80 of 101
Not knowing much about electronics and such (I'm more of an arts guy) I'm only able to come up with hypothesis, which are generated from my personal experience with the unit.

Well, I find the following interesting: VB is related to flicker, VB is reduced by hard powering down, this light dimming issue is apparently improved by the power. So I wonder if hard powering dow might have something to do with the problem.

If this idea is not capable of generating discussion I will cease to be the idea guy who fears he's highjacking the tread.

BTW I got the filter today, and all WOW, like having a new PJ what a difference. Thanks for that man.

TVED: I noticed you're from T.O.. That's where I ordered it form 'Vistek'.

PF
post #81 of 101
Got it back today.

I asked what they had done. Only 2 things.

Upgraded to firmware 1.07.
Reset all connections internally.

I still doubted it would fix it but so far:

Had a DVD running for 20 minutes and no problems. Of course I don't trust it just yet considering people on this board with 1.07 have the same problem?

I'll update in 2 hours
post #82 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by aurz
Got it back today.

I asked what they had done. Only 2 things.

Upgraded to firmware 1.07.
Reset all connections internally.

I still doubted it would fix it but so far:

Had a DVD running for 20 minutes and no problems. Of course I don't trust it just yet considering people on this board with 1.07 have the same problem?

I'll update in 2 hours
Interesting.
No board level changes as might have been indicated by the first comment with respect to the ballast board?
Re seating cables is always a good place to start - hmmmm.

ted
post #83 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by pinkfreud55
Not knowing much about electronics and such (I'm more of an arts guy) I'm only able to come up with hypothesis, which are generated from my personal experience with the unit.

Well, I find the following interesting: VB is related to flicker, VB is reduced by hard powering down, this light dimming issue is apparently improved by the power. So I wonder if hard powering dow might have something to do with the problem.

If this idea is not capable of generating discussion I will cease to be the idea guy who fears he's highjacking the tread.

BTW I got the filter today, and all WOW, like having a new PJ what a difference. Thanks for that man.

TVED: I noticed you're from T.O.. That's where I ordered it form 'Vistek'.

PF
Keep the theories coming - right or wrong it keeps the ideas and hence knowledge growing.

Don't forget the Da Vinci was also an arty type - not to mention probably the greatest scientist of his age. ;) I'm one of those who regrets the split that occurred a few centuries back and think it is an artificial one. People like Michael Snow or Laurie Anderson or Brian Eno are *very* technically astute.

Re Vistek - Jeffrey correct? so you're the "other guy". ;)

Btw are you in town or out of? If out, do you come this way often? I break out in rashes and boils if I go north of St. Clair :D - PM if you wish - though we might argue about your homonym (sound - alike) namesakes - I still lament the loss of Syd Barrett. ;)

ted
post #84 of 101
Update.

Had the projector running for 3 hours

Tried PAL, NTSC, SD and HD

All worked flawlessly.

Problem seems to be fixed.

The guy said he didn't replace the ballast board because after the firmware update the problem went away? :|

Very strange.

I am buying this unit just to be sure tomorrow:

http://www.gamedude.com.au/prod_show...owBE8x_pure_av
post #85 of 101
Thread Starter 
did they give you a new bulb? is it brighter?
post #86 of 101
Quote:
Originally posted by aurz
Update.

Had the projector running for 3 hours

Tried PAL, NTSC, SD and HD

All worked flawlessly.

Problem seems to be fixed.

The guy said he didn't replace the ballast board because after the firmware update the problem went away? :|

Very strange.

I am buying this unit just to be sure tomorrow:

http://www.gamedude.com.au/prod_show...owBE8x_pure_av
Did they admit to seeing a problem? Why are you buying a new protector, if the problem is gone?
post #87 of 101
[quote]Originally posted by tvted
[b]"It is likely that flickering would be more apparent in dark scenes where your eyes would be more sensitive to small changes in light output."

-Yes, I pondered that myself. Sometimes, the only difference between a dark scene that flickers and one that doesn't is the presence of a few sharp highlights. Dark scenes with highlights usually seem to have no flicker and better blacks, perhaps due solely to the narrowing of my own pupils in the presence of the highlights. I can pretty much count on a generally dark shot, without a few bright points, to cause (or reveal) the flicker, lately. These are always the dark shots that look washed out to begin with.

"However, dark scenes would also be where the Iris would be more active.
Try watching scenes that you believe will make the flickering visible and turn off the sound - see if you can hear the Iris moving or the bulb arcing."

-Excellent point, and I should have thought of doing that. I haven't had a chance yet, but I'll try to make time tonight.

"Do you run mainly in LOW bulb?"

-I went back and forth, depending on my mood and the particular movie, until "The Dimming" arrived. I was always surprised by the subtlety of the difference. Desperate now for every last lumen, I've welded the switch at "high". When designing my theater around the 700, I had greedily maxed-out my size/brightness ratio, and hadn't left much latitude for future dimming.


"Do you use your PJ more than 5 hrs daily?"


-Never. Max 2 1/2 to 3, usually 2 and only every few days. This is why, even as a vet of the main thread, I have only racked up 160-odd hours.

One major effect of the dimming, which I'll assume for the moment is normal post-100 hr. dimming and not a defect, has been a quite distinct reduction of the apparent contrast ratio. While I'd bet that the general assumption would be that a less bright lamp would yeild darker blacks (and would indeed measure as such), the SUBJECTIVE effect has been just the opposite for me. Again, I chalk this up to my pupils' wider reaction to less bright images. One argument against this would be that the blacks should darken to the same degree as the whites, but what I'm seeing definitely doesn't bear that out. Under lower lumens, do the LCD panels allow a larger RELATIVE percentage of light to pass through the fully blackened portions compared to the fully white ones, or does my own pupil create that disparity through a similar non-uniform response? Hmmm. In any case, by the time it reaches my (admittedly preoccupied and atrophied) brain, there's no question about the new reduction of apparent CR. Of course, if my 700 is simply out of whack, I'm pondering uselessly.

Thanks for your input, tvted.

KongFan
post #88 of 101
aruz, i was wondering the same thing as billymac... did the firmware update fix the dimmed picture problem as well?

i'm STILL waiting to hear back from my dealer and i'm getting very impatient. i'm going to call them one last time tomorrow as well as panasonic. my picture is dimmed so much that i can't even stand to watch anything... i can barely tell what's going on in dark scenes.

has anyone else found the specific cause of the dimming or a solution to it?
post #89 of 101
I have the panny 700, got it in the first run of them in October 2004.

I have 700+ hours on it now too, and the thing flickers many times a minute - almost every other second. I run it on Natural mode, Low bulb power. I have auto-iris off, but if also flickers if it's on. The flickering is most noticable on the xbox's halo2 menu screen and party waiting room screen - it's horrid! Once the game starts I hardly notice it. While watching movies, I hardly notice it. It's most obvious with static images.

Recent discussions in the TWEAK thread indicate that "faking a bulb hour reset" in the menu will also get rid of the flashing! It was more like HOLD down select in the bulb counter window, and when it asks to reset, hit menu to back out. Something *magic* happens and the flickering stops.

I have yet to do this on mine - I'm looking for a little more community agreement that this does something.

AURZ: Did panny reset your bulb hours to 0 as part of what they did?
post #90 of 101
GKMad,

I was the one who pointed out the reset fake as a solution. It worked for me. I'm unsure if anyone else has tried it, although someone acutually resetted it and powered off with the sam result. Tried it and let us know.

PF
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