Samsung LN-R328W Discussion thread - Page 2

pagusas,

Yes, the LNR328W has a Brightness Sensor, Dynamic Contrast, and Digital Noise Reduction. The display model I was reviewing at Best Buy had all three "features" switched on. The display I actually purchased only had Dynamic Contrast and DNR switched on out of the box. You can switch all three features on and off using the user menu. You also have the standard Brightness and Contrast adjustments found on any television or monitor.

There is no specific backlight adjustment in the user menu. I'm not sure how to get into the service menu to check and see if one is hiding there. To be honest, though, the backlight glow is only just discernible on my LCD. I guess YMMV since different people are more sensitive than others. Personally, my eyes are a touch photosensitive, so I was concerned that the backlight glow would be too much, especially at night. I was glad to find that this wasn't the case in my experience.

pmvella,

I look forward to your report!

Cheers,

- David

[Edited: Forgot to mention Digital Noise Reduction in my original post.]

After giving in to my own curiosity and performing a quick google search I found out how to get into the service menu. There is a Reset option, but I'm not sure how fool proof it is so the usual warnings apply:

* If you don't know what you are messing with, it's better to leave it alone
* Record the default settings before making any adjustments

To access the service menu,

1. Make sure the TV is powered off
2. Using the remote, press: [mute], [1], [8], [2], and [power]

I scanned the adjustments and didn't recognize anything that looked to be exclusive to the backlight itself, so I didn't play with these settings.

- David

when is samsungs LED bacllit display suppose to come out?

Looking back at my CES notes, Samsung stated around May/June timeframe for the LN-R409D. We have received in our first shipments of the LN-R models (23", 26", 32", 40" sizes). We expect to see the 15" & 20" models in 1-2 weeks.

My Digital Video Essentials DVD arrived in the mail yesterday. The actual disc was loose in the keep case and as a result was damaged in transit, so I'll be sending it back for an exchange. I decided to put the DVD into my DVD player anyway to see how far I could get before the scratched area became a problem. Luckily, I was able to get through quite a few of the calibration routines.

Brightness and Contrast

As expected, the contrast on my LCD was set to a very aggressive level. Using a blank piece of bright white paper and one of the basic test patterns, I toned things down to what I considered a more natural level. I settled on a contrast of 75 to start and there is room to tweak that figure down a bit. I may settle somewhere between 65 and 75 when I have more time to critique white levels.

I set brightness to 49 to start. With Dynamic Contrast switched off, this provides a nice level of black detail.

As an aside, I've been playing around with Dynamic Contrast quite a bit since I bought this set. It seems to add a tiny bit of depth to the image while sacrificing a lot of black detail. Since this feature adjusts itself in real time, there isn't a way to accurately adjust the brightness to match the contrast on any given scene. I end up having to make compromises. Should I set the brightness so that I have detailed blacks in dark scenes, or should I set it even higher so I can have those detailed blacks in bright scenes? It is annoying and reminds my of contrast on older SD television sets. Adjusting the backlight would be a better option and is something I'm still researching.

Sharpness

The sharpness setting was also set too high by default. I should probably just turn Sharpness down to 0, but right now I have it set to 35. I still think it might be a bit too much for some of my source material. Unfortunately, my eyes got used to it. Now that I have a bunch of test patterns to work with, the noise in the sharpened image is quite evident. Animation is also a good litmus test and that's what I was using before I bought the DVE calibration disc. At a setting of 0, I didn't noticed any blurring, so that is a good thing. I just need to get off this sharpening habit I picked up.

Color - The Blue, the Red, and the Green

Having access to color filters is as much a curse as it is a blessing. Calibrating blue was easy enough. Tint seemed fine at its default setting of 50 but I had to turn the color control down to 34 so that the pattern was even through the blue filter. Switching to the Green and Red filters tells another story.

With Red, there was a slight deviation when viewing the pattern through the filter. I was able to tune this out using the custom color controls. Green seems to be the one color that is out of whack on my display. I couldn't get even tones using the green filter and the test pattern. Granted, my other settings might be off, so I'm willing to put more work into tweaking everything. In the end I gave up on the green filter and settled on tuning green until yellow looked like yellow. I can't say I've achieved my goal at this point, but I'm close. Perhaps I should call on a calibration specialist local to my area. I'm no sure my eyes are the best tools.

That's about as far as I took things last night. In the end, the adjustments I made did improve things. It's easy enough to reset everything, so I might set my tripod up and take some before and after shots and post them here over the weekend.

- David

the only thing keeping me from purchasing this set is that dang backlight, why did samsung have to skip making it adjustable?!?!?!

Yeah, I would say that having no adjustable back-light can be a definite Achilles' Heal. Since I'm still within my 30-day window, I'm trying to keep an open mind with my critiques and praise. I'm not a veteran of LCD technology by any means, so anything I say is just based on my limited experience.

Oddly enough, Circuit City now has a discount on the Sharp LC32GA5U. The side speakers aren't detachable, but the menu system is really slick. And after playing around with it, I was able to get a nice picture off of the store's HD feed. I walked to Best Buy next door and looked at the Samsung and Sharp right next to each other. Now that I know a little more about what I'm looking at in the image, it's a tough call between the two.

The newer 6U and 7U models still have a price premium that push them out of my reach financially. The 5U, however, now has a very attractive price. I'm actually considering picking it up to compare both sets.

That is to say, I understand completely.

- David

I purchased this set a week ago and so far have been VERY happy with it. Except for one problem. When I plugged the DVI to HDMI cord from my Cox Cable HD DVR into the set, it told me I couldn't use the cable because my set wasn't HDCP compatible. I put a call into Cox Cable and they told me it's a bug with the DVI port on their end. Anyone know if the LN-R328W really doesn't support HDCP?

There is no such animal as HDMI without HDCP.

I went to best buy today and looked carefully at the samsung, and noticed a few very disturbing things. Firstly the manager let me see the remotes and use my DVE disk, so i calibrated the Samsung and the 32" sharp 5U right below it. When i got done, i switched to the in store digital feed they had and watched carefully.

The first thing i noticed is the Samsung's scaler is no where near as good as the sharps. the feed was 1080i i believe, and the samsung had stair stepping going on, while the sharp has smooth lines.

Secondly, it seemed the samsung suffered from motion artifacts. when the Robots demo came on, it looked like objects were getting "pixilated" when they moved fast. I thought at first maybe it was the store's digital signal, but when looking at the sharp, it didn't suffer from it.

I'm going to take a trip to another store and compare again, but judgeing from what i seen, i've lost all interest in the samsung. Dont get me wrong, it looked worlds better then the cheaper 32" lcd's there, and it looked great with still images (it and the sharp looked near identical in color accuracy and blacks) but when it came to motion it seemed to fall flat on its face.

i'll post back with more impressions when i go to Ultimate Electronics tomorow

pagusas,

Thank your for that quick comparison. I'm looking forward to your next report. As I noted earlier, I was also able to get a nice picture from the Sharp at Circuit City (although I didn't have a calibration disc in hand -- nice job) and the picture looked good to my eyes as well. I wish I knew the actual contrast ratio on this Samsung panel, because I think contrast on the Sharp is better. Not by much, but it is there.

That's interesting about the scaler. I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary on DVDs, but I have noticed some jagged edges on SD content. I like to use X-files re-runs, since you get quite a few scenes with power lines in them. Wires should look smooth without those stair-steps.

You said the sharp was near identical to the Samsung in color accuracy. Using DVE, which set had the best colors? Or is it really too close to call?

Thank you,

- David

It was very hard to tell a difference between blues and reds. I couldn't get the greens to match exactly on the samsung, but they appeared perfect on the sharp (keep in mind that i did not have access to the service menu, perhaps given time with it i could have made both identical). if it wasn't for looking through a color filter, i would say the two are both good at reproducing accurate color.

Somthing i forgot to mention in my earlier report! DVD SD quality looked good on both, however i noticed the samsung again was giving jagged edges to some curvers that the sharp was making smooth (watched Toy Story 2, the scene where they are crossing the street, great for color accuracy, movment artifacts, and black details in the shadows). I played with the sharpness control, but found it was always there. My best guess is the sharp just has a better scaler. For regular cable I can't honestly judge due to the poor signal running through BB, there was alot of noice (it was some snow boarding demo thing). When i go to Ultimate Electronics tonight i'll see if they have some better sourses.

Thanks again, pagusas!

I have an opportunity to pick up the Sharp LC-32D7U. I originally thought I wouldn't be able to pick one up within my budget, but it turns out a little footwork proved me wrong. I really like having the speakers along the bottom instead of on the side. Otherwise, I would have picked up the LC-32GA5U already for a direct comparison at home. I had a hunch the Sharp was giving better greens, since I thought the yellows on the 5U looked more natural on the HD feeds in the store. Since Blue and Red are basically identical on each LCD when calibrated, that quiets another concern of mine.

After a couple weeks with the Samsung, I'm finding that the green push on my set is giving me a headache. I'm not sure if that is indicative of a defective set or just my own anal retentiveness. I am very pleased with how much this set has to offer at its particular price-point. Most of the issues that were already brought up don't bother me. I don't mind the housing, the speakers are fine, even the back-light isn't an issue since it's nice and even. The jagged edges are there, but I have to search for them, so even your latest critique doesn't bother me too much. In the end, it's the aggressive green push on my particular set that is proving to be the biggest hurdle to my satisfaction.

- David

the only concern i have with the sharp is i will be using it as a PC monitor as well, and sharp does not "officialy" support 1360x768 output from a pc, even though thats the displays native res. however, i know there are ways around this slight flaw, even though it does seem to be a inconvience.

*question about the Sharp LC-32D7U, is the bottom speaker removable? I actually hate the look of the 7u serries because of that bottom speaker, i find it makes the display look cheap (just my opinion, i know alot of people like it). But is it removable? if it was then i'd have no problem with it.

I haven't seen one at local BB or CC..

Mike

The description on Sharp's website says that the speakers on the 7U are detachable. I believe Mike53 has also confirmed this in an earlier post of his.

PC use is also a concern of mine since I have an HTPC. One of the things I love about my Samsung is that the PC input is truly plug and play. I don't have to mess around with any display properties to get 1360x768. The Samsung uses its native resolution by default.

As usual, there is always some compromise.

PanamaMike,

I've been to quite a few stores now and it looks like the LNR328W is still scarce. The new 26" models are plentiful, but it seems like most B&M stores still have last year's 32" LTP model on display.

- David

Actually pixelation is not a sign of a bad display. On the contrary, it is a sign that the display is sharper and possibly has higher response time. Unless you are seeing some other artifact, pixelation is in the source (compression artifacts of MPEG-2). The sharper the display, the more you notice them.

LCDs tend to smear content on fast moving subjects which typically is also where you get pixelation artifacts (since moving targets are harder to compress). The smearing may hide some of the compression artifacts but obviously, this is not a good characteristic in the display.

Having said this, pixelation can als be exaggerated by poor scaling and limited dynamic range in the display. If so, then you may indeed have lower peformance LCD.

Hopefully I did not confuse you too much . But this type of fault is usually blamed on the display when in reality, it shouldn't be.

Amir

You didn't confuse me I had a feeling it could *possibly* be the digital feed best buy had, thats why i'm going to Ultimate Electronics to check out the displays in 15

Any additional thoughts, pagusas? Or did your Ultimate Electronics field trip solidify your original opinion? I haven't done anything drastic at this point since I'm waiting to hear from a couple sources on whether the LC-32D7U is in stock. Like the LN-R328W, it looks to be part of the spring-time refresh and is hard to find.

- David

Sorry guys, i got back late last night.

Firstly i must highly recommend visiting a local Ultimate Electronics if any one has one, their staff was extremely helpful to me. they actually moved the sharp, sammy and 32" panny into the demo room for me (so i got to enjoy the testing from a nice comfy seat)

They also hooked up 2 different dedicated HD feeds (one 720p, a demo of an NFL game) and one in store demo of several different movie trailers (such as troy)

anyway, on to my observations...

When using the 720p sorce i noticed all 3 displays performed great (keep in mind i had already calibrated them) I did notice a green push on the samsung, as it made the grass seem off compared to the panny and sharp. The panny seemed to have some tonal problems with red's, but nothing major. The sharp performed admirably and was the best of the 3, though i still found them all great.

I did NOT notice any motion artifacts on any of the displays, all did a great job of handling fast camera movements.

The 1080i sorce is what was the real judger though, as this put the units scalling ability to test. First, the UE logo appeared, and around the letters i noticed the samsung had stair stepping, while the sharp and panny did a fine job of making it look smooth. On the troy preview i again noticed stair stepping on some of the edges of swords and armor (though it was very brief as no one seems to want to hold their sword still )
I think its fairly obvious my main fault with the samsung is its scaler, both the panny and sharp did an excelent job. Also, during troy the green push of the sammy became overly apparent, as compared to the sharp and panny it just looked very off in the yellows.

I have to run to class now, but i'll post more comments in a few, as i got a chance to compare sharp's 45" vs the 32" to see any difference between 1080p and 720 (768 really)p.

Did you have noise reduction, dynamic contrast, brightness sensor, etc, turned on or off?

Then there is hope!

I boxed up my Samsung at lunch because I find that I really am too sensitive to the green push on this display. I did my best to adjust to it, but it still is too much of a distraction for me. I'll be giving the LC-32D7U a try and since there is already a dedicated thread for that display here on AVS, I'll post my future impressions there.

For those of you who still have questions about the LN-R328W, I'll keep an eye on this thread to provide answers as best I can. I just won't have this display on-hand going forward (I'll be returning it to Best Buy this evening), so please keep that in mind.

And, as already noted, there many things to like about this display. So much of this is personal and what tripped me up (with regard to the green push) may not be an issue for others.

Cheers,

- David

i'm back, and dont feel like using the edit button, so i'll just jump back into my mini opinions

if i could afford the sharp 45" i'd jump on it, however sence i cant i will point out that the 32" does an EXCELENT job of scaling 1080i images, so good that when viewing from around 5 to 6 ft, the images (other then relative size) looked near identical (resolution wise, i didnt get a chance to calibrate the 45")

Back to the sharp vs panny vs samsung. I must admit the panny took me by suprise with how high quality it is. The menu on it had all the same options the sharp had, and a far more adjustable back light. (the sharp had 16 notches for backlight setting, the panny had 32(or 64, i didnt check how low it could go).

So my final thoughts on my visit are:

1.Sharp Aquos 32GA5U

+excelent colors, the best of the bunch
+no noticable ghosting or motion artifacts
+a great scaler that leaves little to no jagged edges
+an amazingly sharp picture
+good black levels
+ I love the remote, the hidden buttons are kinda fasionable
+The cabinate design is simple and small, just how i like it. No gloss black frame, no strange bullseye, no trinangular bottom
+the stand is the most stable of all 3 displays

- Price, the most expencive of the bunch
- PC imput, from what i hear, is a bit odd as it doesn't support 1366x768 (its native res) officially.
- I've heard reports of Sharp's customer service not being very friends, i've not experianced this my self, but if you search the forum you'll find some comments about it.


2.)Panasonic TC-32LX20

+amazing picture, nearly as good as the sharp, near perfect color accuracy (for an LCD)
+black levels are pretty good
+no detectable ghosting or motion artifacts
+Price, much cheaper then the shapr
+good scaling of 1080i signals

- the remote is awful, it looks and feels very cheap
- a gloss black bezzel, the picture blacks dont looks black, but rather very dark grey (like all lcd's it seems) when compared to the frame of the lcd, lol. in a dark room this wouldn't matter, but its obvious in a display room.
-The bottom of the frame curves backwards, making the display look deeper then it really is. This is just asthetics, but i would find it annoying if i wall mounted the display.

3.) Samsung LN-R328W

+good color accuracy, if you can forgive the green push
+no detectable motoin artifacts, could have just been best buy's feed that caused them last time
+good black performance
+Price, same price as the panny

-GLOSS BLACK AGAIN, ARRRGGG
-again i dont like the remote
-the stand seems VERY unstable, as mentioned earlier by another user
-the bezzel design is to dramatic in my opinion
-Green push
-the scaler, read above
-no backlight adjustment
-the dynecontrast enhancer destroys any shadow details




*****edit*** and mbjorkman, yes i had all those turned off (though i experment with the contrast enhancment while testing) I also had the store manager compare with me, we made a full list of pro's and cons. Very good place to shop, if it weren't so expencive there i would of actually considered buying the sharp on the spot

Great review, pagusas. Thank you.

The one hesitation I would have with the Panasonic would be with a PC connection. Sharp and Samsung both advertise PC compatibility, but Panasonic does not. With regard to aesthetics, I guess I'm a push over.

- David

Wow u made me glad i picked up the Sharp... thanks for the relief.

I'm making myself dizzy flip-flopping on what LCD to keep. In an effort to gain perspective, I decided to do a comparison similar to what pagusas did above. My review focuses on my experiences with the LN-R328W and the LC-32D7U.

After having both units setup at home for about two weeks (unfortunately, not side by side like my in-store previews), I have developed a good idea on what I'm willing to compromise on and what I consider invaluable. My final decision ended up surprising me. I hope this helps prospective buyers. In the end, I am sticking with a flat panel LCD since I can't get enough of the exact geometry. I also highly recommend TVAuthority since they have been incredibly patient with me and my odd strain of obsessive videophilia. Really, they have earned a repeat customer. Kirk has gone out of his way to make sure I'm satisfied with my first purchase. When I have a bigger space and all of these technologies are that much better, I'll be going to TVAuthority first for my next upgrade.

So, with that said, what's my final report? Both sets are very nice and they both have their quirks, as all displays do. At the beginning -- and here at the end -- I was originally looking forward to using this LCD with my HTPC. TV was a bonus. The Samsung excels with that plug-and-play VGA input. If Sharp really wants to one-up their Korean competition in this area, they need to add some sort of native resolution support through the built-in AVC unit. Whether that resolution is 1360x768, 1368x768, or if they are able somehow to get 1366x768 to work exactly, this will increase the value of these smaller sets for PC users tremendously. As it is, getting even 1280x768 to work on the Sharp requires some serious voodoo with the right video card, powerstrip settings, and sometimes EDID magic with third-party add-ons. DVI versus VGA? Honestly, based on my experience I would have to say VGA. The Sharp has a flexible DVI input, but since all of my PC resolutions had some sort of scaling added to them, it looked horrible.

Speaking of picture quality, I would also like to first mention pixel defects. As noted above, I only had both sets for a couple weeks. In that time, I was able to calibrate them and connect my HTPC to search for dead and stuck pixels. Out of the box, both sets looked good. At the end of my first two weeks, when I returned the Samsung to Best Buy, the Samsung still had zero pixel defects. No stuck or dead pixels. In contrast, pixel defects on Sharp panels seem par for the course. And where they may be small enough to ignore on a 1920x1080 display, at 1366x768 it isn't so easy. Using my PC, or even my GameCube, my 32" Sharp has one nasty stuck-on blue pixel that always pops up. There is also a stuck-on green pixel near the center of the display. I would expect pixels to deteriorate over time (months or years), but after only a week? That seems to be a bit much to accept at this price range. Again, Samsung gets the point.

Color reproduction and image clarity are also important to me when determining overall picture quality. DNIe gets its share of critiques, but I find that it does provide a very clean image. The Sharp seems soft by comparison. I didn't notice any of the scaler issues pagusas first noted above with the Samsung. And, to be honest, I thought the Samsung did a comparable job of scaling content both above and below the panel's native resolution. The Sharp did have an odd mosquito effect going on and some ghosting around letters (think credits and the like). I've already gone on at length about color reproduction. Sharp has the upper hand where green is concerned. Samsung pushes green, but I was able to tone it down to an acceptable level on all inputs excluding the odd standard crappy cable channel. Personally, this has been my biggest hurdle. Whether I stick with Sharp or Samsung, I am compromising something: stalemate.

The view modes on both displays are comparable. At least, on paper in the user manual, it looks like you can pair the view modes up easily. Side Bar maps to 4:3, Smart Stretch maps to Panorama, Zoom is Zoom, and Stretch maps to Wide. Panorama on the Samsung sets itself apart from Smart Stretch since it has a fish eye effect. Smart Stretch on the Sharp seems to dull this sensation by adding some vertical overscan to the image. Oddly enough, playing the GameCube over the S-Video input crops the width of the screen on the Sharp in Stretch mode. On the Samsung, using Wide mode, I didn't notice a cropped width.

The user menu on the Sharp has more color options than the Samsung. That being said, the actual User Menu is easier to read on the Samsung at a distance. Sharp does have the familiar back-light option that Samsung lacks (instead you get dynamic options). However, thinking back on my usage, the brightness option on the Samsung seems to be tied to the back-light. On the Sharp, adjusting brightness doesn't affect the back-light. Sharp also has TV-Guide On-Screen. This makes it a better option for people who watch a lot of TV. And the included digital, cablecard, and firewire inputs are present to sweeten the deal. Although I do think these features are nifty, I am not a TV person.

Both manuals could be improved, but the Sharp manual falls short of the Samsung. For instance, the Sharp has two different standby modes, but the manual doesn't do a good job in describing them. You get a rather simplistic summary stating that one uses more power than the other. You are not told that Mode 1 should be used to retain settings and TV Guide information. You are also not told how much power Standby Mode 1 uses. It seems many menu options were glossed over to give room for TV-Guide instructions. I find that disappointing. And perhaps a note on compatible video cards is in order? I do think Samsung uses a better layout. Being a technical writer myself, I know how having a layout that's easy to navigate will add to perceived documentation quality.

And last but not least, Sharp has a better remote. It even lights up. The Samsung remote is a plain no-frills device in comparison. Both remotes run off of two AAA batteries. Then again, there are nice third-party universal remotes available that are compatible with more devices.

Here is my pros and cons table:

Sounds like you are leaning towards the Samsung. For TV, what kind of HDTV signal are you using? Sat., Cable, Antenna? How is SD looking?

So samsung doesn't have backlight adjustment.
Is it too "shiny" for our eyes if we want to use as PC monitor for a very long time?

I just have the standard crappy cable feed or plain old SD cable (minus the sarcasm). I don't plan on getting a cablecard since I have no want for any premium cable services at this time. I tried using the Sharp's digital connection to see if I could lock onto any open HD cable channels, but it didn't find any. My area seems to get all of the cable improvements after everyone else, so that might be rectified in time given the new laws.

That said, SD cable looked nice on both sets. Some channels are worse than others, but the majority of channels that I tend to watch come in just fine. Animation is great on both LCDs from the various cartoon channels. I got into the habit of watching cable in Panorama or Smart Stretch mode instead of 4:3 or Side Bar. I would even turn on the Samsung's Dynamic Contrast while watching the odd TV show late at night. It didn't seem to have as much of an adverse affect on the cable feed as it did on my DVDs over the progressive inputs. The Samsung does seem to lose an equal amount of black detail with Dynamic Contrast on as the Sharp does using my calibrated settings. With Dynamic Contrast off, the details come back at the cost of some depth. I couldn't fix lost shadow detail on the Sharp without pumping the brightness and making the picture washed out. Back-light adjustment didn't help.

-----

junekwan,

With Dynamic Contrast off, the back-light on the Samsung seems to manually adjust when you decrease the brightness. This is different from the Sharp where the manual back-light and brightness options are separate. At the factory default settings, both LCDs are set too hot. Both displays can be calibrated to very comfortable viewing levels. I didn't get any headaches from either display after extended use when calibrated properly.

- David

Technoblue,

Thanks for your reply. If I may continue, what is your viewing distance?

It's likely that I will be getting one of the new Samsung 40" LCD models this summer. (408d or 409d). Initially, most of my TV content will be 4x3 SD content from DirectTV. Thus, it's an area of concern for me that SD looks decent. Even after DirectTV gets locals on HDTV with a DVR that supports it, there will still be a lot of SD content, especially for my children.

Other content I will be running:

Progressive DVD via Component Cables.
PS2 to S-Video or Component
Xbox via Component
Apple PowerBook photo slideshows / iMovie HD slideshows probably via VGA port.

Thanks,

Mark