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Dallas, TX - HDTV - Page 212

post #6331 of 7246
My Zenith converter box shows 5 min fast on 27.1.
post #6332 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

My Zenith converter box shows 5 min fast on 27.1.

EHH thats nothing..some of the Houston stations have time off over an hour!!! and it was not an exact hour off...one was like 57 mins, another 38 mins, etc..
go figure!! You would think they would be linked to a standard....Ooops there goes the engineer in me thinking logically again!
post #6333 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMickey View Post

Weird time problem with KDFI 27-1.

I have three TVs fed with an OTA antenna thru a distribution amplifier. All selected channels on all three TVs display the correct time except for KDFI 27-1, the time on it being five minutes fast. My TVs are two flatscreen and one analog with digital converter box.

One of my flatscreens will occasionally switch back-and-forth between the correct time and five minutes fast while watching 27-1. The other two TVs are locked on to the incorrect time all the time while on 27-1.

I have tried connecting each TV directly to the antenna, bypassing the distribution amplifier, with the same result.

I live on the South side of Greenville, and wonder if anyone else in the same area has the same problem. Interference maybe?

Not interference; it's KDFI's problem. Their clock is off.

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do on your end except call them and report the problem.
post #6334 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post

It was my understanding that KTVT's RF-11 was limited to 23 [sic] kW because of adjacent channel KXII on RF-12. In any case, the simulcast on VHF and UHF continues, one of only a handful doing so.

As for WFAA, I was surprised that the increase from 45 kW to 55 kW did make a significant difference in reception. That's less than a dB better but it was evidently just enough to go over the digital cliff at two sites I examined where channel 8 had been problematic before the small power boost. Another VHF success (in my estimation) is KTHV on RF-12 in Little Rock. They're also running 55 kW, with a slightly higher HAAT than WFAA. I just got back from a trip up there and found KTHV to be robust in a number of locations where I captured it with a small portable set.

Yeah, it's 23 kW, not 22. And yes, they're still simulcasting on VHF. Not sure why, since many folks can't get their VHF signal, but it may be just so those who do get the VHF signal don't have to rescan yet again. The DTV transition probably cost them enough OTA viewers and KTVT doesn't want to inconvenience them yet again.

I'd heard it was KSWO (also on RF 11) that was the limiting factor on their VHF power. I'd be surprised if KTVT caused any significant interference within KXII's service area. Conversely, KXII could likely boost their signal if they wanted. Both transmitters are a long way from their common service area, so it'd be hard for either signal to overwhelm the other.

But then, like you I didn't think WFAA's tiny signal boost would make much difference either. So what do I know?
post #6335 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Not interference; it's KDFI's problem. Their clock is off.

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do on your end except call them and report the problem.

I e-mailed them about the time problem many months ago, but they never acknowledged my e-mail. Maybe they don't care.
post #6336 of 7246
I am seeing a change in and out of focus on KDAF 33.3 This TV.
It is intermittent and when it happens it is when there is a scene change.
The new scene is slightly out of focus for a fraction of a second and then it goes back into focus. This is very distracting and annoying and weird.
As far as I can tell, I don't see it during commercials, just the movies.
I see this happen only on this channel. Any ideas as to the cause?
I'm guessing something to do with the pan and scan process?
post #6337 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjacobs1066 View Post

I am seeing a change in and out of focus on KDAF 33.3 This TV.
It is intermittent and when it happens it is when there is a scene change.
The new scene is slightly out of focus for a fraction of a second and then it goes back into focus. This is very distracting and annoying and weird.
As far as I can tell, I don't see it during commercials, just the movies.
I see this happen only on this channel. Any ideas as to the cause?
I'm guessing something to do with the pan and scan process?

I suspect that this is a compression artifact. (I see it too and it is very annoying.)

The compressor has two ways of generating a new frame. It can send the entire frame, which takes a lot of bits, or it can describe the differences between frames. The latter method takes a lot fewer bits and is what is usually used. But there are a couple of reasons to send a whole frame:

1) Sudden scene changes where the entire frame content changes.
2) Even without scene changes, you want to throw in a complete frame periodically to remove artifacts. The transmission channel is not error free and if all you do is send changes, then errors can hang around a long time. Sending a complete frame wipes those errors away. I don't think This does that very often.

Now if I were being particularly cheap with the bit rate I would want to decrease the peaks that sending complete frames requires. I would send the new complete frame but compress it hard to bring down the size at the expense of losses. This might appear as a loss of focus. Then the later difference data would gradually fill in the lost data.

I have no idea if this is what they are doing but it seems to be a reasonable explanation.
post #6338 of 7246
It's not a shift in focus. This is something you can see on many DTV broadcasts, & it indicates that the bitrate is really too low for the material. The effective resolution is lowered momentarily because the digital compression process is trying to send a picture without enough data to actually encode all of it. Think of downloading a "progressive" JPEG from the Internet — it starts off blurry & gradually gets clearer.

A different kind of artefact occurs when the picture is really bit-starved. Then, the picture gets continually blurrier over the course of a second or three, & then seems to pop back into focus. This indicates a buildup of compression errors, caused by sending frame differences with too little information, followed by correction when a complete frame is transmitted.
post #6339 of 7246
Anyone having problems with WFAA tonight? Nothing has come in for me since 6:15ish. Rescanning and rebooting my TiVo doesn't seem to be working.
post #6340 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughvh View Post

Anyone having problems with WFAA tonight? Nothing has come in for me since 6:15ish. Rescanning and rebooting my TiVo doesn't seem to be working.

WFAA has 100% signal here in NW Dallas. Received with Sony TV, also DTVPal DVR.
post #6341 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughvh View Post

Anyone having problems with WFAA tonight? Nothing has come in for me since 6:15ish. Rescanning and rebooting my TiVo doesn't seem to be working.

All good in 75248 (Beltline & Preston)
post #6342 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by JStigler View Post

In DFW we have ch8 & ch9 on VHF. Ch11 is duplicated by Ch19 and all others are UHF. I have seen folks say the CM4228 is OK even though it is a UHF Antenna. The White Rock area is in a line through downtown Dallas and has presented some issues over the years. Lots of folks use OTA in this market. Put it up and try it when you get a location. In door antennas are an issue on VHF but this one on the patio or at least outside somewhere is worth trying. Some use the CM 4444 I think amp.

I have always had OTA from the attic Winguard.
JStigler

I am finally in the Dallas area just South of White Rock Lake. Being it is so hot in the attic (to access cables) I tried simple rabbit ears for VHF and a very old dependable indoor bowtie UHF from Radio Shack and it is working great. I have these running through my CM7777 to boost the signal some.

The weakest channel is 8.1, but everything else pulls in great. I am sure at some point I will have to install my CM4228, but I am hoping it will be after it cools off some.
post #6343 of 7246
I am in Plano, and pull in all the required signals with a 4228, chimney mounted outside, no amplifier. Probably would work in my attic, if I didn't have the radiant barrier metal lining in my roof!

Alan
post #6344 of 7246
Hi all. I've done my best to look at the antenna reception mapping sites but what I'm really looking for is actual experience from people in my general area (42 miles from the Cedar Hill farm) with attic mounted antennas.

I have a 2 story home and would plan to mount the antenna in the attic. I'm mainly interested in ABC, FOX, NBC, CBS and CW. From what I can tell ABC (Channel 8) is a challenge generally speaking. I'd like to be able to run the antenna to 2-3 TVs (house has coax pre-wired). I saw one recommendation for the Antenna Direct DB4 but sure would like more advice. I did try reading through this thread but didn't find much of anything for my location and situation. If you have some experience I'd love to hear what you installed and how stable the reception is.

As a side question, is there a way to get Monday Night Football (which is on ESPN now) without cable/satellite?

Any help appreciated!
post #6345 of 7246
I'll let folks from around Allen chime in on your main question but I'll take a stab at the side question. If you have an Xbox360 with an active XboxLIVE sub, and if your internet provider is on the ESPN3 bandwagon, you might be able to watch the games using the ESPN3 XboxLive app. They may not put the games on ESPN3 tho...
post #6346 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadfun View Post
Hi all. I've done my best to look at the antenna reception mapping sites but what I'm really looking for is actual experience from people in my general area (42 miles from the Cedar Hill farm) with attic mounted antennas.

I have a 2 story home and would plan to mount the antenna in the attic. I'm mainly interested in ABC, FOX, NBC, CBS and CW. From what I can tell ABC (Channel 8) is a challenge generally speaking. I'd like to be able to run the antenna to 2-3 TVs (house has coax pre-wired).

Any help appreciated!
I don't have your exact situation, but I did install an antenna for a similar situation. My in-laws live in Stroud, OK, 44 miles from the Oklahoma City antenna farm. I installed a Channel Master 4228 in their attic and it receives all the full-power OKC stations just fine. This includes VHF (KOCO is on RF 7 and KWTV is on RF 9) as well as UHF stations.

Differences from your situation: 1) your home is two stories. This likely works to your advantage. 2) I used the old CM 4228, which works on VHF-Hi by accident. The new CM 4228HD is supposedly designed to receive VHF-Hi, but there are some flaws in the new design. Nevertheless it should work fine on WFAA (may have some trouble with KFWD). 3) I was only feeding one TV. Since you'll be splitting the signal, you may need an amp between the antenna and the splitter. Try it without the amp first; if it works, great! If it works OK feeding one TV, but not splitting it for two or three, get the amp. I've had great results with the CM 7777. 4) There is no radiant barrier in my in-laws' attic. Make sure yours doesn't have one either.

One last thing. I modified the antenna by removing the cross-feed harness & attaching two identical baluns to each side. If you get marginal results, you may want to try this yourself. If you have only two TVs, you can hook one to each side; for 3 or more TVs, combine the two sides with equal lengths of coax & a 2-way splitter hooked up in reverse, amplify if needed, then re-split. Note: If this mod makes things worse, try reversing polarity on one of the baluns. You may be combining the signals out of phase.
post #6347 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadfun View Post

I have a 2 story home and would plan to mount the antenna in the attic. I'm mainly interested in ABC, FOX, NBC, CBS and CW.

Since you're interested only in the mainstream stations all of which transmit with near maximum power from high antennas at a single azimuth (Cedar Hill), I think you're well situated.

The caveats are that if your home is equipped with radiant barrier, the attic may be a no go. Plus, only working at the granularity of your zipcode, there may be some issues with terrain (such as being at the bottom of a hill or have structures blocking the path to Cedar Hill).

Here's what I'd do. Head to Radio Shack and get a modest size (85 inch boom) AntennaCraft HBU-33 combo VHF/UHF. Locate it in your attic and aim it to Cedar Hill. Initially connect it to just one antenna in your home and tweak it for the best reception on WFAA/8, the lone VHF you're likely interested in. Once tweaked, run it through the splitter to the other televisions.

If it works, end of story. If not, consider taking the HBU-33 back to Radio Shack and let us know exactly what you experienced. We can then formulate a Plan B.

The reasons I suggest the HBU-33 is that it's a single antenna capable of both VHF and UHF, it's widely available locally and I have experience with it. The CM-4228 suggested by JHBrandt is certainly another option but you may not find it as easy to get locally (and get a return if it doesn't work).
post #6348 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post

The CM-4228 suggested by JHBrandt is certainly another option but you may not find it as easy to get locally (and get a return if it doesn't work).

I discovered that the CM-4228 is much easier to deploy in a cramped attic than traditional long-boom antennas. But if your attic isn't cramped, the Antennacraft HBU-33 may be OK, and there are Radio Shacks selling it all over the place.

I got my CM-4228 at Fry's Electronics, but Fry's is somewhat hit-or-miss when it comes to TV antennas. They may have one in stock - or not - at any given moment. If they're out of 4228's, you might ask if they could call you when they get more in.

Many stores won't accept a return of an outdoor TV antenna once installed. I think Radio Shack is an exception, but I don't know about Fry's. (I never tried to return mine so I never found out.) So that's another thing to ask before you buy.
post #6349 of 7246
I prefer the Winegard HD7694P to the HBU33, though the HBU33 isn't bad. I've seen the 7694 locally at Fry's.
post #6350 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

I prefer the Winegard HD7694P to the HBU33, though the HBU33 isn't bad. I've seen the 7694 locally at Fry's.

A month ago, I would have disagreed with that preference. But I had a recent epiphany. :-)

Several months ago, I obtained the somewhat larger sibling of that Winegard (the HD7696P) and was astounded by its abysmal VHF performance. When I raised this in several technical forums, the consensus was that the published gain figures for the VHF side were, shall we say, optimistic. So I thought that settled it and dropped the matter.

...until I made contact with Hans Rabong at Winegard in Burlington, IA. He had me check the balun cartridge and perform some measurements with an ohmmeter. Since nothing was determined to explain the poor VHF performance, he sent a new HD7696P to me for A-B comparison. Although we couldn't discern any physical difference between the two, the replacement antenna measured up to the published gain. Suffice it to say, I was quite happy with the assistance that Winegard offered and, of course, the replacement antenna they provided.

To wrap this up, I've compared the similar-sized AntennaCraft HBU-44 and the aforementioned HD7696P. Those two are nearly identical in terms of performance with a slight edge to the HBU-44 for VHF and the upper portions of the UHF band. So, for the most part, it's a tossup with availability and pricing being the decision point between the brands.
post #6351 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

I prefer the Winegard HD7694P to the HBU33, though the HBU33 isn't bad. I've seen the 7694 locally at Fry's.

Weird - just looked at Radio Shack's website and they carry the small HBU22, the medium HBU33, and the extra-large HBU55 - but not the HBU44!

HDTVPrimer.com evaluated the HBU44. For channels 11-13 it beats all comers except the extra-large, all-band CM-3671. But for UHF the CM-4228 beats it hands down. It's reasonable to assume the HBU33 is a bit weaker and the HBU55 is stronger, but with neither simulation results nor actual measurements, it's hard to say by how much.

Internet sites like Summit Source and Amazon.com have the HBU44 for not much more than what Radio Shack wants for the HBU33. But returns would be an issue.
post #6352 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadfun View Post

Hi all. I've done my best to look at the antenna reception mapping sites but what I'm really looking for is actual experience from people in my general area (42 miles from the Cedar Hill farm) with attic mounted antennas.

I have a 2 story home and would plan to mount the antenna in the attic. I'm mainly interested in ABC, FOX, NBC, CBS and CW. From what I can tell ABC (Channel 8) is a challenge generally speaking. I'd like to be able to run the antenna to 2-3 TVs (house has coax pre-wired). I saw one recommendation for the Antenna Direct DB4 but sure would like more advice. I did try reading through this thread but didn't find much of anything for my location and situation. If you have some experience I'd love to hear what you installed and how stable the reception is.

As a side question, is there a way to get Monday Night Football (which is on ESPN now) without cable/satellite?

Any help appreciated!

@roadfun, I too live in Allen, west of 75 off of Exchange. Would like hear if you went with CM-4228, Winegard HD7694P or HBU33 and how good the reception is. Also did you add a preamp like CM7777 or Winegard AP 8275.

On a different note, any idea how to get Nick (mostly spongebob for now) and Disney channel (mostly Phineas & Ferb) to keep 7 year old happy?
Thanks
dallas_burn
post #6353 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas_burn View Post

@roadfun,

. . .

On a different note, any idea how to get Nick (mostly spongebob for now) and Disney channel (mostly Phineas & Ferb) to keep 7 year old happy?
Thanks
dallas_burn

Uh, sure. Cable, U-verse, FIOS. Those are. after-all, called cable channels.
post #6354 of 7246
Ok. I should qualify then :-)
I am looking for something like HuluPlus or other paid streaming sites (under $10 per month) that would cater to kids channels.
HTH
dallas_burn
post #6355 of 7246
Unfortunately, kids programming is one of those tough niches to fill once you dump cable or satellite. There is broadcast programming for kids -- the weekday daytime schedule on KERA, plus Qubo on 68-2, but I'm guessing those wouldn't please children who are used to the more mainstream commercial offerings of the cable networks.
post #6356 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Desmond View Post

Unfortunately, kids programming is one of those tough niches to fill once you dump cable or satellite. There is broadcast programming for kids -- the weekday daytime schedule on KERA, plus Qubo on 68-2, but I'm guessing those wouldn't please children who are used to the more mainstream commercial offerings of the cable networks.

we find lots of choices on Netflix streaming, including Phineas & Ferb.
post #6357 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallas_burn View Post

On a different note, any idea how to get Nick (mostly spongebob for now) and Disney channel (mostly Phineas & Ferb) to keep 7 year old happy?
Thanks
dallas_burn

My kids like those same shows. Netflix has both of these on their streaming service, $7.99 a month.

Three years ago when I pulled the plug, my then 9 and 4 year old kids complained. They have adapted. Now both play outside at least 1-2 hours a day.

They also watch better quality programming like Word Girl and AFV because there are less options on my TiVo.
post #6358 of 7246
@alangant & @hughvh

Thanks for the info. I have a WDTVLive Plus box that I can use to stream Netflix and will go with the option suggested by you both.
dallas_burn
post #6359 of 7246
I recently bought a 32" Sylvania HDTV from the local Best Buy and let me tell you, it out did my old Magnavox. When I ran its first scan, It picked up 72 OTA stations and KUVN-CA. Can anyone else confirm? When I did signal checks on every channel, everyone has been holding steady for an hour now.
LL
post #6360 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukeboy67 View Post

I recently bought a 32" Sylvania HDTV from the local Best Buy and let me tell you, it out did my old Magnavox. When I ran its first scan, It picked up 72 OTA stations and KUVN-CA. Can anyone else confirm? When I did signal checks on every channel, everyone has been holding steady for an hour now.

That's a good television with a really hot tuner (probably a 6th generation LG). I have the 19-inch model. The last AutoScan I did netted 83 digital streams. The last analog I was able to receive here was KZFW/6 but they've been gone for almost half a year.

My only complaint about the Sylvania is that the timeout on the on-screen display is too short. When you're watching the signal meter, it vanishes in about 15-20 seconds unless you press any key to keep it active.

The other trait is more of a nitpick. The signal meter shows a scale of 100 but I've never seen anything in excess of 97%, which appears to be its defacto peak.
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