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post #6901 of 7246
Looks like whoever is paying Mako to air Almavision on channels 26.3 and 28.3 forgot they also needed to pay their Dish Network bill:
KODF 26.3
The last 4 digits of the phone number spell "DISH." As a Dish subscriber, I've seen this message myself.

Based on my observations of these glitches, I'd say either Almavision will return by Monday, or we'll be seeing color bars on these channels soon. I can't really say which alternative I'd prefer.
post #6902 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

It does sound like there's a problem with your antenna. I'm not sure if it can be serviced, though.

East Plano can be challenging. You probably should erect an outdoor antenna if possible. I'd suggest a medium-large antenna like the AntennaCraft HBU-44, Winegard 7696, or Channel Master 2018. But check your address at TVFool.com first, in case you need an even larger one. I think Radio Shack sells AntennaCraft antennas, and you might be able to find the others at Fry's.

With a larger antenna you may not need the amplifier and power injector. But it depends on how much cable the signal has to go through to get from the antenna to your TVs, whether you're splitting the signal, and if you have equipment with less-sensitive tuners (such as the TiVo and Channel Master CM-7400 DVRs).

You might be able to mount the antenna in your attic, but as K5ING said, a "radiant barrier" will block TV signals. If your attic has one, you should put the antenna on the roof.

Yes, but I got around 30 channels with this very set up one month ago. Nothing has changed. The antenna is in the attic, with a 50 ft coax, running to a power injector, then 3 ft of coax to the TV. This worked perfect for a month, then a new channel search eliminated them all. How could I loose 30 channels all at once. I wish I would have got an outdoor antenna to begin with. Id like to make this one work though.
post #6903 of 7246
Well obviously something has changed smile.gif I would bet that what changed is that some of your antenna's electronics (amplifier and/or power injector) has gone bad. And as I said, I'm not sure it can be fixed, so I was giving some advice on a replacement.

But if you want to try fixing it anyway, I'd start with the power injector. You should be able to check it with a cut-off piece of cable and a voltmeter. If it's not putting its rated voltage out, you'll know that's the problem; otherwise, check the voltage again at the antenna. If the power injector is good but power's not making it up to the attic, it's the cable; otherwise it's the amp in the antenna. If you isolate the problem to the power injector or the amp, you may be able to fix it, if you're skilled with repairing electronics.

Now, another thing that has changed in the last month is the number of leaves on the trees. Don't laugh - it's actually quite common to lose some channels in the spring due to signals being blocked by foliage. But since you lost practically everything, it's more likely the problem is with your amplified antenna.

You've told me some new things, though. First, you've told me an attic antenna will work for you; and second, your setup is simple enough that you may not need an amplifier (if you have a good enough antenna): there are no splitters, and a fifty-foot cable run isn't that bad.

I've often said I'm not a big fan of antennas with built-in amplifiers. Even though I need an amp, I'd much rather buy it separately. That way I can get the antenna I want without being stuck with a lousy amp or vice-versa. And if one part gets damaged, I don't have to replace the other.

So if you do decide to replace your antenna rather than repairing it, you could go with a Channel Master 4228HD in the attic instead of the airplane-style outdoor antennas I mentioned in my previous post. Whatever you decide, try it without an amp first. If you don't get all the channels you want, you can always add an amp later.
post #6904 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Looks like whoever is paying Mako to air Almavision on channels 26.3 and 28.3 forgot they also needed to pay their Dish Network bill.

Based on my observations of these glitches, I'd say either Almavision will return by Monday, or we'll be seeing color bars on these channels soon. I can't really say which alternative I'd prefer.

Color bars as of last night. Looks like the Mako merry-go-round is going for another spin wink.gif 26.3's bars did have overlaid text reading "Alma," though.
post #6905 of 7246
A couple of weeks ago I made some changes to my TV cabling at home. The basic idea was to move the in-home analog TV channel carrying the satellite station my Dish receiver is tuned to from the receiver's built-in RF modulator to a high-quality SVM-22 RF modulator. It'll still be SD, but the sound will be MTS stereo, and the SVM-22 outputs higher-quality video than the built-in channel 3/4 RF modulator does.

One consequence of that decision is that the satellite TV channel will be moving from the bottom of the RF dial to the top. Therefore, ordinary HLSJs will no longer diplex the analog and digital signals, so the change required some creative re-cabling.

What I decided to do was to take the signal from the antenna, amplify it with the KitzTech preamp, then send it out to a diplexer to be combined with my satellite signal. Then it's split back off from the satellite signal at the receiver with another diplexer.

That all worked fine except for one thing. The weaker OTA signals at that point weren't quite strong enough to split and send throughout the house. I temporarily solved the problem by re-amplifying the signal with a lower-gain Radio Shack amp before splitting, but the amp adds a little noise of its own, which buries the weakest signals. So, I've decided to try switching from the KitzTech 100 preamp to a KitzTech 200, which has slightly higher gain: 24 dB for the 200 vs 20 dB for the 100. (It also has even lower noise, although I think I'm near the point of diminishing returns on getting the noise figure lower.)

Hopefully the extra 4 dB will let me get the signal through all the new cable, diplexers, and splitters without having to re-amplify it with a second amp. I'll post back with the results once it's in place.
post #6906 of 7246
I'm the one in Fort Worth who lost Channel 11 back in April, and I greatly appreciate the input I got. I was just about to oder a new antenna (a "real' VHF/UHF Winegard model), when I got a call from a guy who works for Channel 11. It was pure concidence as I had sent a contact E-mail to CBS11 about my problems just a few days before. The technician who called came to my house with a their special van and tested using thier equipment. With the telescoping antenna in his van, he was able to raise it to the same height and direction I had mine on the roof. He found that I had mine too high, so when I lowered it (and tweaked direction a good bit), I was finally able to get all channels in just fine.

Now we've lost Channel 11 again - got no signal starting yesterday morning after many days of wonderful reception. So today, I go back out and this time I find I have to raise the antenna back up to close to my previously level to get Channel 11 in (my wife's most watched channel, or I would not be going through this). Unfortunately, I loose Channel 13, the only other channel my wife watches (and it has programs on I want to watch as well). Of course, I have to lower the antenna for Channel 13 (all other stations except 11 work perfectly at the lower level), then raise it again for Channel 11 (where I loose lots of channels).

I figure it's a matter of a couple feet up or down, which makes me want to ask if it's worthwile me going ahead and ordering the Winegard I almost ordered. My current antenna is one of those Antenna Direct UHF HD antenna's that I've since learned from this forum are probably not so great. Maybe the VHF/UHFwon't be affected so much by height and be able to gather all channels in if positioned somewhere in the middle? I just don't know enough and wanted to ask again for assurance. I guess I have something blocking my signals where I live and it's driving me nuts - the biggest difference seemed to be the wind we've had since March finally died down coincidentally with this latest loss of Channel 11 (trees or some other structure plus wind maybe?).
post #6907 of 7246
Do you not receive local channels via DTV sat? Our OTA is used in conjunction with DTV's OTA receive for the - channels.
post #6908 of 7246
I'd never heard of an antenna being "too high" before, but I suppose it's possible if there are trees between you and the transmitter. You might be able to catch some signal slipping under the trees if you lower the antenna! Unfortunately every signal has a different bearing and a different frequency, so the "sweet spot" may be different for each channel. And of course the problem gets worse this time every year when the leaves grow back on the trees.

Getting a UHF/VHF antenna would help channel 8 most. In DFW, both 11 and 13 are on UHF (trust me on this), so adding VHF capability wouldn't necessarily help those channels. But a higher-gain antenna would help, since it would capture more of a weak signal. You could probably position it at the lower height, and it would still get enough of channel 11's signal for you to watch it also.

Since you're having these issues, a little antenna "overkill" would probably be wise. IIRC the antenna I recommended before was a Winegard 7694 (among others), but going with the Winegard 7696 instead would add both VHF capability for channel 8 and a little extra safety margin for channel 11.
post #6909 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

...

What I decided to do was to take the signal from the antenna, amplify it with the KitzTech preamp, then send it out to a diplexer to be combined with my satellite signal. Then it's split back off from the satellite signal at the receiver with another diplexer.

That all worked fine except for one thing. The weaker OTA signals at that point weren't quite strong enough to split and send throughout the house. I temporarily solved the problem by re-amplifying the signal with a lower-gain Radio Shack amp before splitting, but the amp adds a little noise of its own, which buries the weakest signals. So, I've decided to try switching from the KitzTech 100 preamp to a KitzTech 200, which has slightly higher gain: 24 dB for the 200 vs 20 dB for the 100. (It also has even lower noise, although I think I'm near the point of diminishing returns on getting the noise figure lower.)

Hopefully the extra 4 dB will let me get the signal through all the new cable, diplexers, and splitters without having to re-amplify it with a second amp. I'll post back with the results once it's in place.

I got my Kitztech 200 last week and it works fine. Unfortunately, though, it didn't help with my situation. The extra gain didn't eliminate the need for the second amp but it did cause some overload, so I went back to the original KT 100. The good news is that I found a way to send even the weak signals to the other TVs by moving the "re-amplifier" down the signal chain and turning up the gain a bit. Now I'm getting every DFW channel, except HSN on channel 25. I can live with that.

Edit: Being an incorrigible perfectionist I couldn't leave it alone. I kept tweaking and (after a frustrating evening or two) eventually got every local channel; even HSN. Still using the KT 100 as a preamp, with both an HLSJ and a 750 MHz low-pass filter on the input.

Right now I'm experimenting with the KT 200 on my north-pointing antenna (for KXII/12). Not much luck yet, but I'll keep you posted.
Edited by JHBrandt - 5/17/13 at 12:15pm
post #6910 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKFrancis View Post

He found that I had mine too high, so when I lowered it (and tweaked direction a good bit), I was finally able to get all channels in just fine.

This sounds like a problem with multipath more than anything. An antenna with higher gain might provide more fade margin and improve reception or it might not. What you need to do is try and figure out the source of the multipath. Some structure almost between you and line of sight to the transmit towers or perhaps something behind your antenna.

One non-obvious cure to multipath is to aim the antenna away from the transmitters. If you are very lucky you can position the source of multipath in an antenna null while keeping sufficient gain for the main signal.

Some more information that I just Googled up:

http://www.dtvusaforum.com/dtv-hdtv-reception-antenna-discussion/4338-multipath-causes-cures.html
post #6911 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKFrancis View Post

I'm the one in Fort Worth who lost Channel 11 back in April, and I greatly appreciate the input I got. I was just about to oder a new antenna (a "real' VHF/UHF Winegard model), when I got a call from a guy who works for Channel 11. It was pure concidence as I had sent a contact E-mail to CBS11 about my problems just a few days before. The technician who called came to my house with a their special van and tested using thier equipment. With the telescoping antenna in his van, he was able to raise it to the same height and direction I had mine on the roof. He found that I had mine too high, so when I lowered it (and tweaked direction a good bit), I was finally able to get all channels in just fine.

Now we've lost Channel 11 again - got no signal starting yesterday morning after many days of wonderful reception. So today, I go back out and this time I find I have to raise the antenna back up to close to my previously level to get Channel 11 in (my wife's most watched channel, or I would not be going through this). Unfortunately, I lose Channel 13, the only other channel my wife watches (and it has programs on I want to watch as well). Of course, I have to lower the antenna for Channel 13 (all other stations except 11 work perfectly at the lower level), then raise it again for Channel 11 (where I lose lots of channels).
).

It probably is multipath reflections as other posters have suggested. It could be coming from the sides but it also could be reflections off of the ground along the line-of-sight. So you also need an antenna that has a narrow beamwidth in elevation. A DB4E antenna from Antenna Direct has that characteristic so you could consider trying that.
post #6912 of 7246
I had a friend with reception issue on KTVT. He has the 4228 outdoors. Not what I would use but hey that is what he has. I had him put in the zipcode for Cedar Hill and his address in Google earth. Draw a line and then zoom into his house. Guess what the antenna was off about 90 degrees and when pointed correctly there was a chimney covering 60% of the antenna.

What I am saying if you want to point an antenna then use Google Earth for a visual. You may see what is in the way.
Johnny S.
post #6913 of 7246
The DB4 is a good UHF antenna. Of course if you go back to his original post, he also mentioned WFAA/8 so I thought he should consider a UHF/VHF antenna. The 4228 would serve that purpose - like the DB4 it has a narrow vertical beamwidth - but it also has a fairly narrow horizontal beamwidth, so it's reasonably immune to multipath interference. But of course, whatever antenna he chooses, he needs to mount it so there isn't a local obstruction like a chimney between his antenna and Cedar Hill!

BTW, TVFool.com has an option similar to Google Earth. Just click "Online TV Maps" and enter your address. You'll get a Google map of your neighborhood. Then click the option to "show lines pointing to each transmitter." This tool makes siting and aiming an antenna a snap! As with all Google maps you can switch to satellite view and even zoom in on your own home's roof.
post #6914 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post


BTW, TVFool.com has an option similar to Google Earth. Just click "Online TV Maps" and enter your address... you can switch to satellite view and even zoom in on your own home's roof.
Yep, that should work, but in my case the house rooftop location had way too much multipath from whatever source, I suspect a 10-12 story building a mile SSW of me just barely out of "line of sight" looking at a Google map. But I discovered that having the antenna 30 ft back in my detached garage attic, perfect reception! So I buried a piece of RG-6 in the yard from the garage to the house for my antenna source.
post #6915 of 7246
We live on a hilltop in Desoto and, as does our OTA, have direct line of sight to the towers in Cedar Hill. Suddenly lost Ch 8's Subchannels about a mont ago. My OTA was purchased from DTV. It's a wing style. Any suggestions about my issue?
post #6916 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

We live on a hilltop in Desoto and, as does our OTA, have direct line of sight to the towers in Cedar Hill. Suddenly lost Ch 8's Subchannels about a mont ago. My OTA was purchased from DTV. It's a wing style. Any suggestions about my issue?
If you are receiving 8.1 OK then there's a setup problem with your tuner. I'd try rescanning the channels.
post #6917 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

If you are receiving 8.1 OK then there's a setup problem with your tuner. I'd try rescanning the channels.

I am not even receiving 8.1.
post #6918 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

I am not even receiving 8.1.
Ah OK... you originally stated you lost the sub channels, implying to me you were still getting the main 8.1. Nothing has changed with their signal as received in NW Dallas, still the same signal strength here.
post #6919 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Ah OK... you originally stated you lost the sub channels, implying to me you were still getting the main 8.1. Nothing has changed with their signal as received in NW Dallas, still the same signal strength here.

Ah okay, glad NW Dallas still has the same signal strength.
post #6920 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

Ah okay, glad NW Dallas still has the same signal strength.


Please identify your antenna (Brand and model).
post #6921 of 7246
The only thing different between channel 8 and most others is that channel 8 is on VHF. The only other VHF station in DFW is MundoFox, on virtual channel 52. Does channel 52 work?

Since you used to get channel 8, your antenna is presumably VHF-capable. It's more likely something broke. Could be your antenna or your AM21 receiver.

Since DeSoto is so close to Cedar Hill, it should be easy to try a different antenna. See if you can get 8 and 52 with rabbit ears. If you can, something probably went wrong with your antenna.
post #6922 of 7246
I see this morning 27.3 was added overnight. Making a space for the new movie channel. I hope they don't run their ID bug ar near 100% white like COZI. I don't watch COZI because of the overbright bug. Too distracting to me, and in some cases can burn that image on CRT TVs, maybe plasmas too.
post #6923 of 7246
Saw that too. According to the PSIP labels, 27.2 will become Movies! and Bounce will move to 27.3 (right now Bounce is on both).

Looks like Trip will need to update rabbitears.info accordingly (his site had Movies! appearing on 4.2).
post #6924 of 7246
I had already moved the listing to KDFI, but hadn't flipped the affiliations around yet since the 27-3 hadn't been lit up.

- Trip
post #6925 of 7246
I knew you'd be on it PDQ smile.gif
post #6926 of 7246
Here's the slide currently on KDFI's 27-2 channel:

post #6927 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Looks like whoever is paying Mako to air Almavision on channels 26.3 and 28.3 forgot they also needed to pay their Dish Network bill:
KODF 26.3
The last 4 digits of the phone number spell "DISH." As a Dish subscriber, I've seen this message myself.

Based on my observations of these glitches, I'd say either Almavision will return by Monday, or we'll be seeing color bars on these channels soon. I can't really say which alternative I'd prefer.

Isn't it illegal to rebroadcast Dishnetwork channels OTA like that I would think the FCC should be notified that someone is rebroadcasting Dishnetwork OTA without permission.
post #6928 of 7246
In the Matter of Tuck Properties, Inc. ) File No.: EB-FIELDSCR-13-00007234
Licensee of Station KNAV-LP ) NOV No.: V201332500042
Facility ID: 47898 De Soto, Texas )
NOTICE OF VIOLATION
Released: April 8, 2013
By the District Director, Dallas Office, South Central Region, Enforcement Bureau:

1. This is a Notice of Violation (Notice) issued pursuant to Section 1.89
of the Commission's rules (Rules)^ to Tuck Properties, Inc., licensee
of Low Power TV Station KNAV-LP in De Soto, Texas. Pursuant to Section
1.89(a) of the Rules, issuance of this Notice does not preclude the
Enforcement Bureau from further action if warranted, including issuing
a Notice of Apparent Liability for Forfeiture for the violation(s)
noted herein.^

2. On March 7, 2013, an agent of the Enforcement Bureau's Dallas Office
inspected the transmitter site for Station KNAV-LP, located in De
Soto, Texas, and observed the following violation(s):

a. 47 C.F.R. S 74.765(b): "The call sign of the station, together with
the name, address, and telephone number of the licensee, if the
licensee does not reside in the community served by the station, and
the name and address of the person and where the station records are
maintained, shall be displayed at the transmitter site on the
structure supporting the transmitting antenna, so as to be visible to
a person standing on the ground. The display shall be maintained in
legible condition by the licensee". At the time of the inspection,
the agent observed that the required sign was not posted.

b. 47 C.F.R. S 74.784(b): "The licensee of a low power TV or TV
translator station shall not rebroadcast the programs of any other TV
broadcast station or other station authorized under the provisions of
this Subpart without obtaining prior consent of the station whose
signals or programs are proposed to be retransmitted. The FCC,
Attention: Video Division, Media Bureau, shall be notified of the
call letters of each station rebroadcast, and the licensee of the low
power TV or TV broadcast translator station shall certify it has
obtained written consent from the licensee of the station whose
programs are being retransmitted." During the day of the inspection,
Tuck Properties, Inc. stated in an email that Station KNAV-LP did not
have a written agreement with HOT TV to rebroadcast their
programming. Tuck Properties, Inc. only had a verbal agreement to
rebroadcast HOT TV's programming.

3. Pursuant to Section 308(b) of the Communications Act of 1934, as
amended,^ and Section 1.89 of the Rules, we seek additional
information concerning the violations and any remedial actions taken.
Therefore, Tuck Properties, Inc. must submit a written statement
concerning this matter within twenty (20) days of release of this
Notice. The response (i) must fully explain each violation, including
all relevant surrounding facts and circumstances, (ii) must contain a
statement of the specific action(s) taken to correct each violation
and preclude recurrence, and (iii) must include a time line for
completion of any pending corrective action(s). The response must be
complete in itself and must not be abbreviated by reference to other
communications or answers to other notices.^

4. In accordance with Section 1.16 of the Rules, we direct Tuck
Properties, Inc. to support its response to this Notice with an
affidavit or declaration under penalty of perjury, signed and dated by
an authorized officer of Tuck Properties, Inc. with personal knowledge
of the representations provided in Tuck Properties, Inc.'s response,
verifying the truth and accuracy of the information therein,^ and
confirming that all of the information requested by this Notice which
is in the licensee's possession, custody, control, or knowledge has
been produced. To knowingly and willfully make any false statement or
conceal any material fact in reply to this Notice is punishable by
fine or imprisonment under Title 18 of the U.S. Code.^

5. All replies and documentation sent in response to this Notice should
be marked with the File No. and NOV No. specified above, and mailed to
the following address:

Federal Communications Commission

Dallas Office
post #6929 of 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin120 View Post

Isn't it illegal to rebroadcast Dishnetwork channels OTA like that[?] I would think the FCC should be notified that someone is rebroadcasting Dishnetwork OTA without permission.

Almavision returned to channels 26.3 and 28.3 Monday. Surely they need permission from both Dish and Almavision to do that. I would think written permission should be documented in KODF's and KHPK's public files, if anyone wants to check up on them.

KNAV's violations should be easily corrected. They need to erect a proper sign at the transmitter site, and they need a written copy of their agreement with HOT-TV for their files. (That they do have such an agreement is clear from the HOT-TV slide displayed on all their affiliates; it lists KNAV/22 as one of them.)
post #6930 of 7246
KODF and KHPK are LPTV stations and thus not required to keep public files.

- Trip
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