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THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 48

post #1411 of 2962
I've been hearing several of the same issues and i think it has nothing to do with your tv, i think it's just the xbox360 itself.Apparently the designers must have had LCD in mind when making their games to a certain picture level.So naturaly xbox360 is darker on a CRT perhaps?

I can't comment for myself since i don't own one yet,but as for my cousin and his 34" sony 34xs955 he just simply turns the brightness higher when playing the xbox360 and has no issues.It could be the game as well, it could be dark intentionalyy to give it a sort of mood.

My settings are SBRT 29 and UBOF at 0 for the rest of the inputs,when i get my 360 someday i will coment and see if i am seeing the same issues you guys are seeing.

What's your SBRT set at? try 29 itg seems to be the best setting IMO while still achieving good blacks.
post #1412 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27 View Post

I've been hearing several of the same issues and i think it has nothing to do with your tv, i think it's just the xbox360 itself.Apparently the designers must have had LCD in mind when making their games to a certain picture level.So naturaly xbox360 is darker on a CRT perhaps?

I can't comment for myself since i don't own one yet,but as for my cousin and his 34" sony 34xs955 he just simply turns the brightness higher when playing the xbox360 and has no issues.It could be the game as well, it could be dark intentionalyy to give it a sort of mood.

My settings are SBRT 29 and UBOF at 0 for the rest of the inputs,when i get my 360 someday i will coment and see if i am seeing the same issues you guys are seeing.

What's your SBRT set at? try 29 itg seems to be the best setting IMO while still achieving good blacks.

Yes, I actually commented on this issue a few posts back somewhere. When the Xbox 360's software (games) were being developed, the developers and testers were using mostly LCD's. The 360 is indeed naturally darker on CRTs, but that's not too big of a problem to fix.

I thinking about actually lowering SBRT (29 right now) a little and raising UBOF (0 for PS2 and 3 for 360 at this point in time) and trying to use GAMM at 1, but 3 makes a lot more sense to me. Sooner or later I will stumble onto the perfect settings, it's just trial and error right now. I might end up going back to pro mode and see if I can't find a better way to utilize it for gaming.
post #1413 of 2962
im actually noticing some black crush on HD TV progs in 1080i though too, a black shirt where you can hardly see the wrinkles or blends in with a black background
post #1414 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by irhxcbcziuzxs View Post

im actually noticing some black crush on HD TV progs in 1080i though too, a black shirt where you can hardly see the wrinkles or blends in with a black background


It's still dark even at those high settings of SBRT at 37?

If that is true then i think there is a problem with your sony's component inputs because this sin't normal especially if you have to set SBRT that high,you really should'nt have to go any higher than 31 to see details in dark areas.

It's either that or there is a problem with your xbox360,try using someone elses on your tv and see if there is a difference in black level.
post #1415 of 2962
Just got my kd30xs-933, the pq is awesome, even though I don't have a hd receiver. My one concern is that at times my picture looks like it is being pushed in at the middle, almost a concave effect. Its most apparent when Im looking at dish networks program guide, especially in the normal screen setting. Is this a convergence issue, or just something I don't have set right. I've fiddled with the tilt level, ect. to no avail. Has anyone else with this set experienced this or know how to adjust it?
post #1416 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27 View Post

It's still dark even at those high settings of SBRT at 37?

If that is true then i think there is a problem with your sony's component inputs because this sin't normal especially if you have to set SBRT that high,you really should'nt have to go any higher than 31 to see details in dark areas.

It's either that or there is a problem with your xbox360,try using someone elses on your tv and see if there is a difference in black level.

it shouldnt have anything to do with component inputs when i just said I noticed some black crush on a TV channel...
post #1417 of 2962
much to my dismay i reset my tv to the original factory settings thinking to correct and undo a few things. i thought that was the setting to which it was when i purchased it, boy was i wrong. i have sat thru and has gone over the service menu countless times, and have set my convergence, focus, and color settings to that i like, but its only for 480i, when trying to view something in 480p, 720p and 1080i all i get is a weird signal that resembles that of what is beings sent to my tv via rf signal, everything is hooked up the same as it was, but my inputs are now(f....d!)my tv type is a sony kv32hs510, im looking for proper id values thinking that maybe 1 or a few are off, like 1d 7, so if theres anyone out there that has those values or may know what could be a solution ( value that i could set in the service manual ) please help. I have gotten this far as to resetting all of my values i just need those few left, and a few finer tweaks that i can do myself after i can get the appropriate signals to be sent to my tv and my tube will be perfect( in my eyes at least)
post #1418 of 2962
I also have an xbox 360 on a sony tv kd-36xs955 and it is missing the top and bottoms of many games. Again back to a previous comment maybe made with LCD in mind. I thought I would be smart and mess with overscan settings DHPH, DVPH, MDHS and MDVS to get it in focus I got the high def in focus great then my standard TV and PS2 and other devices were all out of wack. So I thought I set back to my defaults I wrote down and for some reason the screen is stretch vertically. Im worried maybe I wrote a default down for one mode and it wasnt same on all.. ugh. So now Im forced to make adjustments again. Out of town right now figured I would join this site do some posts see what I could come up with as far as help. I saw info for 34" sony widescreen tv and I downloaded it and made a spreadsheet to use when I get home.

I saw a post at beginning of thread for kd-36xs955 default settings from kentech. It wont download gets to end says it cant read. Does anyone have good copy of the kd-36xs955 default settings so I can match with what I have. Even a doc with all the definitions of these settings would be nice.

Thanks
post #1419 of 2962
Sorry if this is wandering off the subject. I am just responding to something from a couple of pages ago.

Ken-

Regarding the color decoding you discussed, I had my ISF calibrator (Chad Billheimer) return to do some tweaking last night. He is VERY skilled, and had previously adjusted my focus and convergence amazingly tight! I ran your color-decoding settings by him. Months ago we had initially set all inputs to 13-15-5-3 for RYR through GYB respectively. I liked this, even though I felt it gave the colors a bit of garishness to them (which is less realistic). With this is mind, the calibrator also found that the color slider should be up by about 1 more tick from where we previously had it. With the colors already being a bit gaudy, I felt this would be wrong. But rather than doubting that, I doubted the color decoding pattern. So we looked back at those values. He tried re-calibrating the colors using several different test discs. Using all of them to calibrate, 14-14-6-4 indeed got us the closest, which was a bit closer than 13-15-5-3. In reality, some of the ideal color decoding settings are more towards the middle of 2 numbers, but the closest combinations of all of them seemed to be that 14-14-6-4 pattern. It also looks the most accurate as well, which makes a lot of sense. And naturally, it is also the most realistic looking. This allowed the color to feasibly slide up a notch to its correct level and still look appropriate.

Good call on that one Ken!

He worked mostly on my 480p/component with the XP-30 player. Regarding SYSM-2 versus SYSM-3 - I personally prefer SYSM-2. As you have said, both combinations can get you to similar destinations. I asked the calibrator to redo the sharpness using SYSM-2 as a value. I had no mides or VM's activated at the time. According to the patterns I had on my 57 RP/CRT, he approved the zero mide use (mide-63) and VM's turned off. Part of this was due to my personally preference, but he also felt it wasn't needed quite as much with SYSM being set at 2. That being said, he did take a look at MHLY and MHLC, and felt zero was the best for the colors. He didn't look at MHYL or MHCL as closely, but still felt that the MIDE-63 looked the best with the color/sharp patterns. Keep in mind I'm a filter for translating this info. since he's a pro and I'm not. But this is roughly what he was saying. Also, my screen is 57" and VM's personally never were easy to handle on a screen that large.

I swore SHAP and PREO had effect on 480P material. I swore that lowering SHAP to zero took away the coarsness with 480p material. I saw it happen with a few dvd's over 480p. He did not see any change to Avia sharp patterns while manipulating SHAP in 480p, and felt the menu was not active for this resolution. I think the change is so subtle it was hard to notice, but I swear there is interaction going on. Otherwise I would not have bothered changing SHAP to zero.

As for sharpness, I am left with SYSM-2 and the sharpness slider. The result is a VERY film-like picture. The XP-30 puts out a great picture as it is. The sharp-slider is at 22 ticks. I feel this is a bit low, even though it did well with the sharp pattern on Avia. Question: What is the appropriate sharpness level for this? I want to say it should be somewhere between 24 and 30. One of you found a good level, but I can't seem to track it down. My calibrator set it very well, I feel it could use a couple ticks more, and I was curious what you typically used.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you some positive feedback with your spot-on color decoding Ken!

Another question - the "Axis" value in the color service menu - is this merely a value that points to different color dedocing patterns, in the same way that different "Mide" values point to different mide collumns? I have entered in the exact same color decoding values for Axis - 1 and Axis - 0, and switched the two back and forth, and there is no change. I want to say that axis affects nothing else but color decoding values. If this is true, this means that you can mix up the color decoding values for a few inputs, to avoid having to compromise by using one color pattern for all inputs. Color decoding is global for each axis value, but the assigned axis value for each input is not global. For weeks i had the same colors for all inputs but the coax/antenna, and it was because axis was different for only that input.
post #1420 of 2962
I'd just keep sharpness in the middle personaly that way it balances out for other content like VHS,cable tv,etc.
post #1421 of 2962
My Vocal Coach is going to be on Conan O Brian Tomarrow, ill check for black crush then, cause i seen it during saturday night live, i was playing oblivion and it seems like the tv had reset the sbrt , but it hadnt...
Im going to have a professional callibrator come out if i cant fix this, or also have sony come out
post #1422 of 2962
New to forum not sure if I'm posting correctly.

I will be installing a new CRT in my KD-30XS955 in a few days so I will have an opportunity to put the memory stick patterns to the test.

I have found that Sony has some bad quality control on their CRT's having changed manufacturing plants 3 times in less than 3 years. I have two of these sets. The one manufactured in 1984 had an American made CRT. The one manufactured in 1985 had a Japanese made CRT (with loose aperture grill) & from what I'm reading the next CRT's will likely be manufactured in China. The American made tube has developed a G1-2 to K short that acts up after the set is warm.

I do have some nice test equipment & used to do television repair. My pattern generator is nice but not really for HDTV. I did put a pattern on with my generator & compared it to the test pattern that KenTech provided for memory stick use. I found that pattern tracked very close with my pattern generator as they both showed the convergence being off in the same area.

I have looked at the video waveforms with a digital storage oscilloscope.

I have replaced many picture tubes in my day but this will be my first HDTV tube replacement.

I'm planning to change the cabinet to gloss black while I have everything torn down.
post #1423 of 2962
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AncientOne View Post

My pattern generator is nice but not really for HDTV. I did put a pattern on with my generator & compared it to the test pattern that KenTech provided for memory stick use. I found that pattern tracked very close with my pattern generator as they both showed the convergence being off in the same area.

Don't forget that there are internal test patterns for 1080i, 720p, and 480p. Absent anything else, the HD patterns can be used for fairly precise calibration, although they're not very sophisticated.
post #1424 of 2962
HELP ME! I went into the blue QM and QT info & test pattern section in the service menu and did some adjustments to the vertical and horizontal perimeters in D-1 and D-2 while on a test pattern.
I NOW CANNOT EXIT THIS SECTION!
I have tried turning the tv on and off several times, tried unplugging it, etc., and it goes back to this same test pattern and the loud test tone everytime I turn the tv back on!
What do I do to exit this screen and test tone and return the tv to normal operation.
I am very worried.
Please help.
post #1425 of 2962
Daltonlanny,

I've had that happen before a couple of times(even if you turn set off and back on outside of SM), even when I didn't "write" the QM PATN value for the test pattern I was looking at ---In my case here's what worked to fix it ..... For instance --- If one of the QM "PATN" test patterns are "stuck" on screen, try going to QM "PATN=0" and then writing the "0" value(which turns the test patterns off).
post #1426 of 2962
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daltonlanny View Post

HELP ME! I went into the blue QM and QT info & test pattern section in the service menu and did some adjustments to the vertical and horizontal perimeters in D-1 and D-2 while on a test pattern.
I NOW CANNOT EXIT THIS SECTION!

I apologize for not discussing this in my recent posting on the internal test patterns. Happened to me, too.

If you WRITE your new settings while using a test pattern, you have also accidentally written that test pattern! That's incredibly stupid on Sony's part: PATN should have been a *temporary* setting, as are several other test parameters. But it isn't.

As Nitewatchman said, the solution is to go into service mode, turn any pattern off, and WRITE that. So go to PATN, reduce its value to zero (which brings back the picture), and WRITE.

By now you have also discovered that one should also turn down the audio while using the test patterns, preferebly to zero!
post #1427 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

Don't forget that there are internal test patterns for 1080i, 720p, and 480p. Absent anything else, the HD patterns can be used for fairly precise calibration, although they're not very sophisticated.

This is true, however I have seen that the external sources can be quite different. i have calibrated the TV color decoder with a HD signal generator, then input a HD signal through a HD satellite STB and the decoding, and brightness have been noticeably off.
post #1428 of 2962
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenC View Post

i have calibrated the TV color decoder with a HD signal generator, then input a HD signal through a HD satellite STB and the decoding, and brightness have been noticeably off.

The set-top box could be the wildcard, here. These TVs can use a CableCard or receive clear-QAM (unprotected) broadcasts without such a box. For clear-QAM, the internal-source calibration works as well as I could possibly want, as there are more differences between stations than between what I see and "perfection."
post #1429 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

The set-top box could be the wildcard, here. These TVs can use a CableCard or receive clear-QAM (unprotected) broadcasts without such a box. For clear-QAM, the internal-source calibration works as well as I could possibly want, as there are more differences between stations than between what I see and "perfection."

I would agree. With the ATSC input, I calibrate it directly with the signal generator. It is just when a STB un-compresses the signal for Component or HDMI HD output, things change. This is where calibration becomes difficult without a HD signal generator. Additionally, Cable boxes do not have ATSC inputs and calibration becomes difficult unless, by chance, a broadcast test pattern can be saved with a PVR for calibration.
post #1430 of 2962
I think im going to call sony support and get their asses here because
sbrt is 37 and its still horrible, black crush is bad in HDTV , which i just noticed today, a guys face shadow was blending into his black jacket
post #1431 of 2962
Thanks KenTech and Nitewatchman!
I got it back to normal...WHEW!
Had me terribly worried for a while.
Thanks also to you guys for all the extremely valuable information you all have posted on this thread. Great stuff.
Lanny
post #1432 of 2962
is this the de-facto grey hair forum?
post #1433 of 2962
Another question and concern:
After I did some tweaking of the horizontal and vertical perimeters of the picture in 2170 D-1 and 2170 D-2, the size of the image is much more accurate and hardly any of the image is "chopped off" at the edges with 4:3 programs.
But...
On widescreen or HD images with the black bars above the images there are now a relatively faint red line and blue line just above the picture that run horizontally across the entire screen.
The blue line and the red line are close together [about 1 millimeter apart] and are located about 2 millimeters above the picture.
If I zoom the image to fill the screen or watch normal 4:3 programs the red and blue lines do not appear.
Why do these red and blue lines appear now?
Did I adjust or do something wrong?
Is there anyway to correct this?
Thanks again for all your help and advice.
post #1434 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by irhxcbcziuzxs View Post

I think im going to call sony support and get their asses here because
sbrt is 37 and its still horrible, black crush is bad in HDTV , which i just noticed today, a guys face shadow was blending into his black jacket

I'm sorry but after so many posts of you posting issues with your tv, i can officially say now that there is something wrong with your tv and you should get it fixed because at SBRT at 29-31 you should see all shadow detail.
post #1435 of 2962
irhxcbcziuzxs-

SBRT is not the only value that may affect a black crush. There are all of the values/codes in the "Luma" menu that have effect on black levels. But there are several controls that might be on a low setting, which should be much higher. SBOF is one such control. Check around and experiment. As i said Luma is the big one, which might have a few codes that might be of some interest. As we know there are hundreds of controls in there, and if just one of these is too low, you could be seeing too much black. You just need to find which one it is.

Otherwise, it's probably broken.

Another question concerning balck levels and brightness. I have my set calibrated with the ideal black level for watching in the dark. My set looks great but has been an overbearing picture since I had it calibrated. I wonder if it's because i have such rich black levels.... I also wonder if it has to do with gamma. My grayscale was calibrated using blue and green gamma values of 2 and 3 respectively. Gamma makes midtones lighter i understand, but i also wonder if it is causing some eyestrain, as it gives the picture more punch, but at the expense of being a little too intense. Are we generally supposed to use gammas to adjust the grayscale... as opposed to just adjusting the "cuts" and "drive's" by themselves ? Just wondering.
post #1436 of 2962
its only in 1080i
post #1437 of 2962
Quote:
I wonder if it's because i have such rich black levels....

when you have rich black levels it makes your color look too high,try turning the color down a little bit or just turn up SBRT one notch to 29 instead of 28.I too was using 28 for a while but then settled on 29 since it seems to be a better compromise of shadow detail and black level.
post #1438 of 2962
My SBRT was calibrated to 24. If i were to raise that, wouldn't that be the same as merely raising the brightness (black level) control on the user menu? Also, aren't you supposed to calibrate black level based on the pluge patterns? Is it objective that the outer black boxes must always need to disappear?

I need to keep "color" where it is since that's the correct calibrated saturation point.
post #1439 of 2962
Thread Starter 
irhxcbcziuzxs, SurfingMatt27 -- Please, you need to download and examine this chart so you can see all of the service-mode parameters that affect black level and brightness. You guys keep talking like SBRT is "the One" and that some value of SBRT is "Right." It's not and there isn't! Several settings *interact* to determine black level, and until you understand this, you will stay confused. SBRT=31 just happens to be in the middle of its range and has no special importance.

irhxcbcziuzxs - If you want to keep hammering on this one special problem you have, you might consider starting another thread that focuses on it. If your set is under warranty, ferchrissake get a tech to come out and look at it!
post #1440 of 2962
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon D View Post

My SBRT was calibrated to 24. If i were to raise that, wouldn't that be the same as merely raising the brightness (black level) control on the user menu?

Yes.
Quote:
Also, aren't you supposed to calibrate black level based on the pluge patterns? Is it objective that the outer black boxes must always need to disappear?

Yes -- for the DVD input, at any rate. Broadcast black level varies all over the place, HD much less, and even some DVDs aren't dead-on. So -- you calibrate it for, say, dead-center on the Brightness control, then adjust to suit. You can't do any better. You'll at least know that when you return the Brightness slider to 31, it is at the calibrated point, and you can go from there.
Quote:
I need to keep "color" where it is since that's the correct calibrated saturation point.

Why? That varies a lot, too! Set the Color Slider=31 and adjust service-mode settings for correct color on DVD (UCOF, say), and you can use the internal test patterns to calibrate HD and SD/480i fairly closely, too. Again, then you'll know that dead-center on the Color slider is calibrated, and if color is too much or pale, it's the DVD or broadcast, not your set. Adjust accordingly.
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