or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Direct View (single tube) CRT Displays › THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries - Page 15

post #421 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona1 View Post

Would someone be able to provide me with the codes or a link to properly adjust for centering and overscan? By looking at the test patterns that ptchristensen found, I believe that my picture is not centered or has the proper overscan adjustment on any of the inputs.

First of all...the TV picture is always much more forgiving that a test pattern. If you do not have any problems with the way your picture and the overlaying logos and screen menues look...leave it alone.

Centering is important since the screen menues and the black bars might be offset. If they are not and if you do not see any shifting when moving between input formats...leave it alone.

Overscan is often needed to hide imperfections in the corners. I have adjusted to 4% overscan, to hide bending lines in the upper left corner.

Here are the basic steps that I would use:

1) Center the raster or frame, using 480i-Full or 1080i input. See Service Manual 2-8. KenTech #14

2) Overscan is corrected in 2170D-1/VSIZ and VPOS to adjust vertical size/position. 2170D-2/HSIZ and HPOS for horizontal. Remember that this is global, so you need to do a lot of saving and moving between input and formats.

3) Blanking, see KenTech #265.
post #422 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ev01vEd View Post

Is there a way to get the "Wide Zoom" mode back to factory defaults? By mistake I copied my settings for "Full" over to it, now they are the same.

In short...No...!

Find all the "Wide Zoom" entries in 2170D-1 and 2 and entries in MID1-3, and reset them to the default settings.

Possible shortcut: Check 2170D-1, 11. If the value is 0, change to 1 and save. If that doesn't do it, you have to "walk the walk".
post #423 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

In the service menus for my 34XBR960 I have a menu called QM. This menu contains a massive amount of geometric patterns and color patterns.

And here comes the kicker: the geometric patterns are generated in 3 different input formats. 1080i, 480i and 480p. I have no idea how they do it, but I centered


If you are as lucky as me, to have this menu, here is what you do: In QM, PATN the entries from 1-20 is 1080i, 21-40 480i and 41-60 480p. You select the pattern for the adjustment you need to do - then you navigate to the menu you need for the adjustment i.e. 2170D-1 - the pattern stays on the screen. You make your adjustment and save. The pattern stays until you move back to the QM, PATN menu and reset it to 0.

The QM, CPTN contains around 20 color patterns. I have not used these since I leave the color adjustments to Ken and Glen.

Is anyone aware whether the 34XBR910 has such a pattern generating menu?
When I perused the Service Manual for the 34XBR2 provided by Kentech there was a reference to such a menu on page 23. I wondered if a similar capability was offered in XBR models that followed the 34XBR2. We have confirmed that with the 34XBR960 and the 955 model. Is the same true for the 34XBR910????
post #424 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

In short...No...!

Find all the "Wide Zoom" entries in 2170D-1 and 2 and entries in MID1-3, and reset them to the default settings.

Possible shortcut: Check 2170D-1, 11. If the value is 0, change to 1 and save. If that doesn't do it, you have to "walk the walk".

Thanks for the reply ptchristensen. I'll take your advice and perhaps just leave everything alone. I haven't noticed any logos being cut off, and 4:3 material appears to have the same amount of black bar on either side of the picture.
post #425 of 2962
I've been a happy owner of 30HS420 TV for a few weeks now, and today I decided to go through service menus a bit, to try to fix some of the small focus issues I've noticed.

Most notably, when I display 720p picture from my computer on this TV, I notice that the left side of the screen seems unfocused compared to the right one. Following KenTech's instructions from his thread-starting posts, I've been able to correct this, and make the picture perfectly in focus all over the screen.

*However*, as soon as I've finished this, I've noticed a new problem on one test picture. Picture that displayed white thin vertical lines on the black background made me notice that the lines close to the left and right side of the screen have red color bleeding on the right side of each line, and blue bleeding on the left side of each line. It looks like when the beams are out of focus, these lines get a bit fuzzy on the edges and you can't see this convergence problem (is that what is referred to as a convergence problem?), but when I everything properly, it appears.

I have no idea how to fix this, and I've tried fiddling with the D-CONV parameters, but no matter how much I changed these I couldn't see any significant change, and certainly not something that would fix my problem

Any advice?
post #426 of 2962
I have the same TV, the KV 30HS420, You mean like a blur on the sides? When dark colors ae mixed with light one? I too tried to fix that on the D-CONV menu and it didn't change a thing. The only way I found to correct this is by reducing the screen size a little. But it will affect the other video settings like my PS2, which is missing less than an inch on each sides of the screen so I have to enter the sm and readjust the screen size (HSIZ).
post #427 of 2962
Not exactly the blur. You can fix the blurry edges by fiddling with the focus parameters (2170D-4 group). This more seems like a convergence problem, because the three beams don't converge at the same vertical line. Still, D-CONV didn't help with this at all.

Also, I've noticed that the focus on this TV seems to be relative to what picture it's displaying... WHen I'm outputting the 720p picture from my computer, I have the wallpaper in the background. When I put a small file listing window over that large background wallpaper picture, the TV shows that small window as much blurrier than if I stretch the window over the whole screen, or just make it bigger - all of a sudden, the text in the window (file names) became perfectly in focus and readable. This happens no matter what I do with focus parameters. Weird?
post #428 of 2962
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

In the service menus for my 34XBR960 I have a menu called QM. This menu contains a massive amount of geometric patterns and color patterns.

pt, you're an absolute Prince for discovering this!

It doesn't appear in any service manual I have seen. Enter service mode, and step *backwards* with the 5 key to see these groups. My 36XS955 has the service-menu group called "QM." It comes up in blue, not green, and AFAIK the values are never saved. Further, 0 - Enter reloads everything and kills the patterns, rather that your having to run the PATN count down to 0 before exiting. So does power-off.

#0 - INFO (values 0-7) has 7 screens of information about what is going on in the set. Nerds, rejoice!

#1 - PATN (values 0-80) has four groups of 12 patterns, both color and b/w, including a couple of amazing frequency sweeps. Each pattern is at value 20*n + p, where n is 0-3 for the group, and p is 1-12 for my pattern set. (The remaining values are pure-white screens.)

The groups on my set appear to be 1080i, 480i, 480p, and 720p. That last one may be exclusively component video, and the middle two NTCS color by a different pathway.

#2 - GPTN (values 0-12) are 11 different patterns of a decidedly different type on only the upper 70%of my screen, no matter the scan rate. Some are translucent. I don't know their specific purpose.

QM has more codes, but I haven't discovered anything about them yet.

The test patterns are inserted into the video channel *ahead* of all picture adjustments in 2170P-3 and MID5, so they can be used for evaluating these settings. I value the crosshatch patterns, but some of the others I will probably just look at for fun, as we don't know what pathway they take thru the long processing chain. I wonder what the sweep frequency extremes are for the #8 patterns in each group. Unfortunately the highest video frequencies are positioned at the right edge of the screen, where the horizintal focus is the worst!

I will bet these are for quick assessment of major probems by a service tech, and that we can trust perhaps only the crosshatch patterns and grayscale steps for calibration accuracy. For me, these will *not* replace the sophisticated patterns available from DVD via component input, nor memory-stick patterns, for center focus and other screen-center assessments. I don't trust the bright color bars at all! The gray step-scales are likely useful for assessing your grayscale linearity, unless you have a color bias on one side of the screen -- and then other patterns would be much better.

Kudos for the detective work!
post #429 of 2962
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconelly View Post

I have no idea how to fix this, and I've tried fiddling with the D-CONV parameters, but no matter how much I changed these I couldn't see any significant change, and certainly not something that would fix my problem

What you describe here is exactly a dynamic-convergence problem, and making adjustments in D-CONV should really fix this. I have corrected my own problem with fringing on vertical white lines at the left and right sides of the picture with D-CONV #2 and 7, RSAP and LSAP. I watched medium-brightness lines at 1-3" in from the right side, tweaked RSAP, and watched the color fringing disappear. Same with the left side. The xSAP codes affect the whole height of the picture; if you want to affect just the top, middle, or bottom, see service manual for picture-descriptions of what codes to use.

Note that making the pattern very bright brings about a bit of misconvergence on its own, and so use lower brightness settings. If you have the marvelous "QM" code group on your set, see above messages for suggestions. The HD crosshatch pattern (#1) would be excellent for this.
post #430 of 2962
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconelly View Post

When I put a small file listing window over that large background wallpaper picture, the TV shows that small window as much blurrier than if I stretch the window over the whole screen, or just make it bigger - all of a sudden, the text in the window (file names) became perfectly in focus and readable. This happens no matter what I do with focus parameters. Weird?

Maybe not. If the file window is white, and your wallpaper is medium-toned, your whites may be set so bright that the scanning spot "blooms," a natural effect, blurring darker text against the white background. Further, the focus is not equal over all the screen: the right and left quarters of the screen will generally exhibit *better* focus of horizontal lines and *worse* focus of vertical lines -- it's the nature of the beast. The scanning spot is a slightly vertical oval at the center of the screen, but it changes to a skinnier horizontal oval at the left and right extremes and to other oval orientations at the corners and top/bottom extremes. Maybe you have to turn down the Picture slider a bit.

Sony's focusing method that I used as a basis for my Focusing article "balances" focus for different positions on-screen and for bright vs. dim picture detail. I learned the hard way that the wrong settings may make for a gorgeous dim picture, but bright detail smears all over the place. I redid mine for the right compromise, and after weeks of use, I'm still very pleased! (Getting mine right *required* me to twiddle that internal focus control, as mentioned in the article. Your set may need that touch-up, too. Take a look.)
post #431 of 2962
Ken, thanks for your answers.
post #432 of 2962
Thank you pt, I am very happy with the test patterns as well. I have a 36xs955 like KenTech.

KenTech, my test patterns 61 - 80 put the tv in 720p mode not 480i.

I was able to adjust overscan pretty easily using the patterns 'on the 7s' using MID3 for 1080i, 480p and 720p and MID2 for 480i.
post #433 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenTech View Post

Maybe not. If the file window is white, and your wallpaper is medium-toned, your whites may be set so bright that the scanning spot "blooms," a natural effect, blurring darker text against the white background. Further, the focus is not equal over all the screen: the right and left quarters of the screen will generally exhibit *better* focus of horizontal lines and *worse* focus of vertical lines -- it's the nature of the beast. The scanning spot is a slightly vertical oval at the center of the screen, but it changes to a skinnier horizontal oval at the left and right extremes and to other oval orientations at the corners and top/bottom extremes. Maybe you have to turn down the Picture slider a bit.

Sony's focusing method that I used as a basis for my Focusing article "balances" focus for different positions on-screen and for bright vs. dim picture detail. I learned the hard way that the wrong settings may make for a gorgeous dim picture, but bright detail smears all over the place. I redid mine for the right compromise, and after weeks of use, I'm still very pleased! (Getting mine right *required* me to twiddle that internal focus control, as mentioned in the article. Your set may need that touch-up, too. Take a look.)

Finally an answer to my problem Thanks Ken. What I know already is that my whites aren't that bright so just need to adjust in the D-Conv menu and the focus to see if the blur on the sides will be corrected.
post #434 of 2962
Quick couple of questions from a newbie. I have a 34XS955, which I believe is very close in construction and electronics to the 34XBR960. Is the twin-view feature of the XBR960 simply electronically diabled in the 955, and thereby accessable and enable-able through service codes? It wouldn't be the first time a feature has simply been disabled for offer in a lower-tier device.

Also, OT, but which thread should I look in where I could find the channel lineup in my area? I plugged my digital cable feed into the back of my TV and discovered I could see all those digital stations without the RCN cable box....but it's difficult navigating when there's no logical order to the channels (i.e. 114.5, 89.50, etc).
post #435 of 2962
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post

KenTech, my test patterns 61 - 80 put the tv in 720p mode not 480i.

Thanks for the correction. I didn't think of that -- but I didn't see an indication of it, either. That early XBR2 manual explains a couple of procedures for using the test patterns, and in each case the indicated that you should enter the video mode of interest *first,* then invoke the test pattern. I wonder if the *order* in which you do this matters in how the set uses the pattern.
Quote:


I was able to adjust overscan pretty easily using the patterns 'on the 7s' using MID3 for 1080i, 480p and 720p and MID2 for 480i.

The implication of more than one of the service manuals is that you should set up the 2170D centering and display-size adjustments (overscan) on a standard input before anything else. If that is not set up right, i.e. the picture is not centered on the raster, maybe tinkering with MID1-3 settings is a premature way to correct overscan *until* the 2170D adjustments are satisfactory as far as they go. But maybe you've done this already.
post #436 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post

I was able to adjust overscan pretty easily using the patterns 'on the 7s' using MID3 for 1080i, 480p and 720p and MID2 for 480i.

Let me elaborate a little on what Ken answered to this one. Overscan should be set on the standard input, 1080i or 480i/Full on Widescreen and 480i on 4:3, using the 2170D-1 and 2.

Corrections for overscan is almost always set on tube based tv's. Let's say that from the factory the overscan is set to 3% on the raster or frame using 2170D-1 and 2. If you then further correct the overscan using the MID3 settings, that reacts only on the picture inside the frame or raster, you will actually add to the 3% already set.
post #437 of 2962
It maybe a stupid question but

Can KV30HS420 change screen mode in 720p signal by adjust service menus a little bit?

Sony say it's HD signal so it will fix at "full" mode. but the problem is when I output a 704*396 video from my computer via DVI-HDMI cable the aspect rate is incorrect under this "full" mode. Huge black bar on both top and bottom.

I can change VSIZ and ASPT in 2170D-1 to fix it but they are global setting. It just drives me nuts.

It there any way to do it? switching screen mode in HD signal?
post #438 of 2962
no...there is no way. period.
post #439 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubulat View Post

no...there is no way. period.

No way to change? Are you sure?
Is this same for all Sony TV like KD and XBR?

How come they are so stupid?

I switch from Philips 9110d to SONY due to ghosting problem, now Sony can't even display the picture correct?

I gotta change back to Philips then, the second raid of this model seems get rid of ghosting already.
post #440 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiya View Post

Sony say it's HD signal so it will fix at "full" mode. but the problem is when I output a 704*396 video from my computer via DVI-HDMI cable the aspect rate is incorrect under this "full" mode. Huge black bar on both top and bottom.

I'm not quite sure that I understand...
- Is your picture "stretched" to fill the screen horisontally, with black bars on top and bottom?
- Is the PC signal the only 720p signal you send through the HDMI input?

If the signal is stretched you could try MID3, 2 and 3 to stretch the signal vertically. The MID3 settings are both input and signal independent.
post #441 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

I'm not quite sure that I understand...
- Is your picture "stretched" to fill the screen horisontally, with black bars on top and bottom?
- Is the PC signal the only 720p signal you send through the HDMI input?

If the signal is stretched you could try MID3, 2 and 3 to stretch the signal vertically. The MID3 settings are both input and signal independent.

Here is the original



KV30HS420 in HD mode


see the black bar at both top and bottom?

No, PC HDMI signal not always output 720p. if i play a 640*480 video, i can switch screen mode no problem.
I can see TV recognize 640*480 video as VGA signal, 704*396 as 720p signal in service menu


But the point is 1280*720 video do just fine.

So even i change setting in MID3, it still ruin the real 720p video since TV consider 704*396 is 720p.

Not like Sony, Philips can change screen mode any time in any signal, so there no such problem

Any suggestion?
post #442 of 2962
In your picture, it seams that you are missing a little of the screen on the right side also or is it me?
post #443 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

In your picture, it seams that you are missing a little of the screen on the right side also or is it me?

Yes, actually it miss the pic on the both side about 8%.

After play with service menu, top and bottom just fine. No overscan whatsoever.
But no matter how I adjust, always miss some pic on the side.

I wonder if it has something to do with my video card setting. But I try that too.
No use. GF6800
post #444 of 2962
We've just purchased 4 ea) Sony KV-SW29M50's, and we need to turn off the noise reduction. The Sony website claims this model doesn't exist, and I've never been able to get past their automated phone messaging to speak with a real person. These are "grey market" NTSC/PAL TV's, manufactured by Sony but not sold through normal distribution channels. They make a beautiful picture, but generate hideous noise reduction artifacts when the source is noisy.
post #445 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjmilo View Post

Is anyone aware whether the 34XBR910 has such a pattern generating menu?
When I perused the Service Manual for the 34XBR2 provided by Kentech there was a reference to such a menu on page 23. I wondered if a similar capability was offered in XBR models that followed the 34XBR2. We have confirmed that with the 34XBR960 and the 955 model. Is the same true for the 34XBR910????


BUMP
post #446 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiya View Post

I wonder if it has something to do with my video card setting. But I try that too. No use. GF6800

Two questions

1) Do you send "real" 1080i through the HDMI/DVI port?. If not, then you can still use MID3.

2) Does your graphics card support component output, and did you try?
post #447 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

Two questions

1) Do you send "real" 1080i through the HDMI/DVI port?. If not, then you can still use MID3.

2) Does your graphics card support component output, and did you try?

1, I don't know if it's real or not. I try 1280*720 video, it shows 720p on service menu. 1980*1080 shows 1080i, 704*396 shows 720p, 640*480 shows VGA.
All from HDMI output.

I can try MID3, but i'm confuse. How do I set MID3 settings signal independent?

2, Why do i need component while i have HDMI? Plus, GF6800 has a bad reputation on component output
post #448 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiya View Post

1, I don't know if it's real or not. I try 1280*720 video, it shows 720p on service menu. 1980*1080 shows 1080i, 704*396 shows 720p, 640*480 shows VGA.
All from HDMI output.

I can try MID3, but i'm confuse. How do I set MID3 settings signal independent?

2, Why do i need component while i have HDMI? Plus, GF6800 has a bad reputation on component output

1) Since you send both the "good" and the "bad" 720p and the 1080i through the same input you cannot use the MID3 menues. In your first mail I got the impression that 704*396 were showing as 1080i, and if you didn't input other 1080i through HDMI you could have used MID3. But alas...!

2) Well you are certainly not giving the HDMI/DVI connection a better reputation.

If you expect your Sony TV to be able to handle all possible PC formats, you obviously have the wrong TV. Btw. I never before heard of a 704*396 signal, even on PC's, what format is that?
post #449 of 2962
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptchristensen View Post

1) Since you send both the "good" and the "bad" 720p and the 1080i through the same input you cannot use the MID3 menues. In your first mail I got the impression that 704*396 were showing as 1080i, and if you didn't input other 1080i through HDMI you could have used MID3. But alas...!

2) Well you are certainly not giving the HDMI/DVI connection a better reputation.

If you expect your Sony TV to be able to handle all possible PC formats, you obviously have the wrong TV. Btw. I never before heard of a 704*396 signal, even on PC's, what format is that?

I download a lot of Japan anime from internet. The fansub groups rip the DVD or Japan HDTV program then add English subtitles.
Usually they release them in 704*396 which is perfect 16:9 format. It should fit my HS420 perfectly.
My pervious HDTV(Philips 9110d) has no problem with it at all, they look beautiful. I just don't understand why SONY make this so complicated.

I mainly use PC as my signal source until the HD-DVD or Blue-Ray come out and of course the XBOX 360.
Perfect compatible with PC is a main factor for me. Sony just let me down. Probably I shall stick with some brand that is more user friendly.
post #450 of 2962
On mine, DVDs set in 480p and regular tv in "full" mode fills the whole screen. but while using my PS2 and GC, like you I miss like less than an inch on the sides in full.
How I corrected that? I simply adjust the screensize in the sm (HSIZ) to 44. My default setting is 51 and everything (DVD, PS2,...) fills the whole screen but I have a problem when doing so, blurs on the sides when dark colors and whites are mixed together appears for DVD and TV only(on the sides and edges only). I tried to tweak in the D-CONV menu but nothing happened. It's still there. Maybe it is the focus for the verticals but I'm not sure whitch menu to tweak.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Direct View (single tube) CRT Displays › THE SONY SERVICE CODES - Articles, Comments, Discoveries