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Lost all my recordings on new E95H HDD  

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Well this is somewhat of a shock to me. I've only had this player since Friday. Everything was working fine. Tonight, I settled in to watch a couple of programs I recorded earlier in the evening - and they weren't there. A program I recorded during the day was there however. I checked to see if the timer events were still there and they weren't. So the timer events did happen. In fact my wife said she saw the recorder recording during this time-period. I was in another room, so wasn't paying attention.

I then looked at the display and the record light was still on, with 2 progress bars. It looked frozen, because I've noticed when recording, the progress bar is always moving. I decided to turn the unit off and then on again. After powering up, the record light wasn't on. But when I went into Direct Navigator to check my recordings, everything was gone!! I had 8 recordings that are now in bit heaven, I guess.

I did use the guide to program my events. Up until tonight, the timer events were working fine. The only thing else I can say is that I had a DVD-RW in the DVD drive that I had been testing with (yes, it could read from a DVD-RW). I can't believe that had anything to do with it.

I'm baffled. It appears that the record function locked up, and then subsequently trashed the hard drive. Ugly! I haven't done any manual timers yet on this machine.

Chris
post #2 of 28
Yikes! And I thought my problems were frustrating! I lost all my TV Guide program and setup data, but at least I didn't lose all my recorded TV shows.

I can't help wondering if that DVD-RW in the tray had something to do with it.
post #3 of 28
Wow-that's horrible news. Mine has been going since Saturday. I've recorded 10 shows from various sources and 2 from timer recordings (no cable or antenna-everything records through L1 or L3).

good luck Chris-I can't even imagine how pissed you must be. I can't think of a solution - once gone - always gone??
post #4 of 28
Just 1 question cpete -- did any of these recording events involve ABC.

I've been having problems with my E-85 missing EPG scheduled events and am starting to see a pattern that always seems to involve back to back recordings where one of the events is on ABC.
post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
Actually all three recordings were ABC yesterday. The NBA playoff game during the day recorded fine. The other two programs that crashed were back-to-back on ABC. It was Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy from the 9-11pm timeslot. I programmed them through the guide as separate events.

Chris
post #6 of 28
Hmmmm.....vehhhddy intehdesting!

The plot thickens.....
post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by cpete
Actually all three recordings were ABC yesterday. The NBA playoff game during the day recorded fine. The other two programs that crashed were back-to-back on ABC. It was Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy from the 9-11pm timeslot. I programmed them through the guide as separate events.

Chris
Oh nuts . . . I got blown up on Desperate HW (ABC) also. My wife and daughter were livid with anger towards me. Fortunately we caught it live after 30 min so only the first 30 min was a total loss. This messes me up a little in my collecting of the series -- will have to get it on the reruns. DHW was the tail end of a back-to-back recording with Charmed (WB) on the front end. both events were set via the EPG.

I may have seen something similar to your experience. Charmed recorded OK and the red record light was lit on the front panel as it should be. When I looked at it during the DHW session, the red light was not on and when I "turned on" the unit it was kind of locked up with the display showing a string of zero's. I had to hit stop and cycle the unit to standby a couple times to come back to normal. However, all my previous recordings were still on the HDD.

As I stated previously, the pattern appears to involve ABC scheduled events in back-to-back recording situations. Now that you are aware of the possibility, look for this pattern in your next failures.
post #8 of 28
cpete (chris)

OK, this is weird but I think my E-85 blew up exactly the same as you and your E-95, recording the same common show. I re-read your post as to the description of the display after you crashed and thought that does sound familiar. Now the fun part.

I came home today and wanted to check my scheduled programs to make sure they were all set. My weekly schedule for Desperate HW was grayed out with "??" so I assumed that meant it wasn't on this Sunday. I checked the listings and found that it was on but that my recording icon had an "!" across it. So I deleted the DHW event and rescheduled it for weekly record -- so far so good. I then went through the listings and added a couple additional program events for weekly record.

Now I settled back and hit the navigator button to scan what I had and, lo and behold, all my hours of recorded programs were gone -- just like you. But probably unlike you, most of those programs were for my soon-to-be-irate daughter. After more than a few inelegant words I noticed the display showed I had not recovered the recording space on my HDD from the seemingly deleted programs. Resigned to my fate, I hit the functions button and started a format of the HDD. 5 minutes into the format it was obvious it had stalled from the start and the E-85 was now locked up and unresponsive.

Here's where you may get some help: I held down the power button for 5 sec to force the E-85 to turn itself off. When I turned it back on it went through a couple minutes of self-check and a prolonged startup period during which I held my breath. When the E-85 was back up I found: my EPG listings were still all there; the scheduled events I had just added were gone and the event for DHW was grayed out again; but, all my recorded programs were back in the navigator window. I did a quick scan through them and they all played and seemed to be good. I repaired the DHW scheduled event and re-added the ones I had just put in. Everything seems OK and I'll check it out for recording tonight.

OK, what's the odds of the both of us going down the same way at the same time recording the same program. I've missed records before but not with a crash like this -- again a back-to-back record involving an ABC program. There was a thread a while back I started because my E-85 crashed with what appeared to be bad EPG data because a bunch of others went down at the same time in the same way. I wonder if this was EPG related. I wish I could remember if that last big crash was ABC related.
post #9 of 28
It's because DHW is EVIL! Just kidding. Perhaps cpete can recover his lost programs as well with a soft reset.
post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Kelson

My wife and daughter were livid with anger towards me.

"Livid with anger" !!??? :eek:

I'm not picking on you in particular (honestly), but is it possible we have our priorities all messed up? A wife and daughter are "livid with anger" with their husband/father because a ruddy television program wasn't recorded? :confused: Doesn't seem too healty IMHO.

I think it's time for everyone to take a walk in the park. You know, stop and smell the roses, that kind of stuff.
post #11 of 28
Thread Starter 
All,

Thanks for your comments and sympathy.

I haven't had time to play with this again until now. The player still seemed screwed up because when I tried to do a manual record, nothing happened. It wouldn't start recording. So in an attempt to reproduce the experiment, I set timers on ABC for the same timeslots tonight - with the guide. After about 15 minutes, I checked out Direct Navigator, and lo-and-behold all my recordings were back. Except of course the ones that messed up last night.

I was just getting ready to try Kelson's reset idea; and if that didn't work I was prepared to do a format. But fortunately my recordings came back.

I see this as a huge opportunity to fix the EPG. We actually have documented cases of multiple machines crashing in the same way. Surely Panasonic will want to fix this problem (won't they?). It's clear in my mind that there is a bug in the EPG code that crashed on some bad data from the EPG. The bug doesn't actually delete anything off the hard drive, but it causes the Direct Navigator to mess up. Pointers have probably been trashed in the Direct Navigator code that pointed to the recordings on the hard drive. The trick is how to force Direct Navigator to re-read all the recordings off the hard drive.

Being in the business of protocol analysis, I know how difficult it is to safely write robust code that will take into account endless possibilties of bad data on the wire, or being transmitted. It's tough.

I'm going to call Panasonic in the morning and file a case. It will be interesting to see if anyone else has reported the problem. Clearly a firmware fix is required for the 85 and the 95.

Chris
post #12 of 28
Good luck, Chris. Hope Panasonic has a firmware fix in the pipeline already.
post #13 of 28
They may already have one available. When I called 'em on Sunday about my problem (recorder crashed when trying to write a title name or disc name to DVD-R), they told me there were no firmware updates for that. But the guy said they did have a firmware update for EPG problems.
post #14 of 28
cpete

Congratulations on recovering your programs. I would however advocate doing a soft reset with the power button anyway. You may have only gotten part of the problem to rectify itself. I don't think a reformat of the HDD is necessary -- yet.

I'm now going to keep track of recording failures. If the trend of problems with ABC continues I'll start using a manual record to schedule those and see if the problems persist.
post #15 of 28
Thread Starter 
I had a pretty good discussion with a Panasonic tech just now. They are very aware of the EPG problem. He had over 30 calls on this problem since Sunday night. It's not the first time either. Panasonic and GemStar are working on a fix. The fix will be implemented as an automatic download of guide information. There will not be a separate firmware fix for this. Unfortunately, we're going to have to wait a little bit. They anticipate a May 21 rollout.

I also confirmed that it is not an ABC or any network problem. Neither is it a back-to-back recording issue. So unfortunately, until we get a fix, it will not be possible to predict when bad data will get downloaded or how it will manifest.

He was also aware of missed recordings with the guide. That seemed to be a result of bad EPG data as well.

Speaking of back-to-back recordings. There is a bug on the E85H and E95H with back-to-back recordings. There is a firmware fix that is being rolled out to the US site now (it's not there yet). It's already on the Japanese site. I am getting this firmware upgrade in the mail.

Back to my experiments. I recorded the same timeslots on ABC last night and they recorded perfectly.

Chris
post #16 of 28
cpete

I did the same sort of test last night also and it worked fine. Just to be anal about it -- what you are saying, from your discussion with the Panasonic tech., is that the problem we had and the problems of skipped recordings is in fact an issue with the EPG and not some random act of the electronics. Is that the gist of it?

I'm using the 970 firmware for the E-85, so I guess this new firmware will supercede that. I hope everyone keeps their eyes open for it's appearance on the net.
post #17 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I did the same sort of test last night also and it worked fine. Just to be anal about it -- what you are saying, from your discussion with the Panasonic tech., is that the problem we had and the problems of skipped recordings is in fact an issue with the EPG and not some random act of the electronics. Is that the gist of it?
Yes. It's the result of bad data being downloaded in the EPG. The software in the Panasonic reacts badly in some cases, and in different ways. There's no way to avoid the problem unless you don't download the guide. One way of doing that is to leave the machine on at night. But after 8 days, you'll need to download the guide again, exposing yourself to the possible bad data. If we want to use the guide, I guess we take our chances until the update happens.

Quote:
I came home today and wanted to check my scheduled programs to make sure they were all set. My weekly schedule for Desperate HW was grayed out with "??"
It's the same on mine.

Chris
post #18 of 28
These units are far too tempermental!

This may have been covered before (sorry!).... but....Is there any way to COMPLETELY BYPASS the EPG (to avoid all the pitfalls) when FIRST setting up the unit?

DON'T NEED IT....DON'T WANT IT! (TOO MUCH AGGREVATION).

THANKS :)
post #19 of 28
Thread Starter 
slprp1,

I see you double posted and have your answer already. In spite of the issues I've had, I remain hopeful the EPG guide will become stable. I do like having it for my OTA stations. From what I've read on this forum, the problems are strictly with setting recordings through the EPG. If you set them manually it's not a problem. If someone knows otherwise, please comment.

Chris
post #20 of 28
OK, the EPG on my E-85 got me again. I was set to record the second part of Elvis tonight. At 8:00 pm the E-85 just sat there and didn't start to record. I didn't catch it until 8:40 at which point as soon as I powered up the E-85 it kicked into record mode and recorded the last 1:20 of the broadcast.

Anyone else have problems with Elvis tonight?
post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Kelson
Anyone else have problems with Elvis tonight?
Hey Kelson,

I lost the second half of the second part of Elvis, but for an entirely different reason. I was recording it on the computer, instead of on my trusty E-80, using an ATI HDTV Wonder card that I just got a few days ago (I was recording something else for my wife on the E-80). About half-way through the movie, I got on the computer and temporarily minimized the recording screen. For some reason the ATI started replaying the movie from the beginning while it continued to record. I ended up with the first hour recorded twice.

Any interest in swapping DVD-Rs? I have two different versions of the first hour I could burn...:)
post #22 of 28
I have an E85HS that has been working flawlessly since I upgraded the firmware last December, and an E95HS I bought from buy.com last month and had the Green-screen lock-up problem until I disabled the guide on power on. Since then, I've had very little trouble recording anything using the guide--including back-to-back, which I do quite often.

In fact, I've recorded several thousand hours on my E85HS, without a problem, and burned over 600 hours of DVDs without fail.

I did hear that the Pannys tend to bring back lost shows it you unplug them for a few minutes.

Anyway, the firmware upgrades are shipping. I installed mine today and all went smoothly--leaving my 100 hrs. of edited recordings, thirty scheduled programs (all Guide+), and 90+ channels customized to my preferences, totally unscathed.

I've uploaded the upgrade CD image in ISO format and the instructions in PDF format. You can get them from my blog at:

panasonicpvr.blogspot.com
post #23 of 28
Video Bob,
Can you tell me what this E95 upgrade fixes specifically? I downloaded the upgrade from your site. However the PDF instructions would not open.
post #24 of 28
RWF2:

Do you have the latest free Acrobat Reader?

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

It fixes several known problems with the Guide+ usage--including the infnous "Green Screen" freeze. I'm assuming that it also fixes the back-to-back recording problems that some report (but I've never seen).

bob
post #25 of 28
Here are the directions, for those who want them:

(See Attached)

bob

 

panny dmr-e95hs upgrade.pdf 145.5224609375k . file
post #26 of 28
BTW,

The letter said that the enclosure was for the E85, but I asked for (and received) the CD for the E95.

bob
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by VideoBob
Here are the directions, for those who want them:

(See Attached)

bob
Bob, we appreciate your posting of the .PDF file, but for your own sake you might want to edit that first page since it contains your full name and address.
post #28 of 28
Looks like the first 25 people to go for that file get to stalk and harass me. ;)

I appreciate the warning, and really should be more careful. If I repost it after it expires, I'll do it without the cover letter. It's alread confused several people because they referenced the wrong machine in it.

bob
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